Well now you mention Lando-T something worth immediately noting is that Krook itself actually outspeeds Lando-T by a whole 1 point, however even then Lando-T as you said runs somewhere between 88-100 speed EV's I think? So there is a further argument that a defensive Krook spread might look to invest a bit more wisely in speed.
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Pokémon Krookodile
- Thread starter Topaz
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Not without risk on these 3, specs latios ohkos with surf/draco, lo starmie too and (mega)scizor will hurt it significantly with U-Turn assuming krookodile was in play already and doesn't get to intimidate.
Now switching starmie or latios into krookodile is not without risk as both will risk ohkos from knockoff but scizor cleanly 2hkos with U-Turn and can easily take repeated hits from max bulk krookodile.
Krookodile doesn't get Poison Jab, unfortunately. I sometimes used the Scarf set with Aerial Ace as a fourth move (after Knock Off/Stone Edge/EQ), just to nail Breloom. Even if Techniloom comes in to wall you, it'll most likely use Swords Dance rather than Mach Punch, so it just dies. It'll OHKO Heracross, and rip a chunk out of Chesnaught and Whimisicott too.
What i meant is that those Pokemon don't want to switch into Krookodile, so it will manage to set up SR and keep it up as long as he is on the field, not that he can switch into those Pokemon.
I was actually looking at the spread earlier and it was something like 172 HP / 88 Speed with rest dumped in Attack. 88 speed was used to outspeed max speed breloom so he might be open to even more tweaking as you say with that whole one point higher.
Scizor can and Starmie and Latios can come in on a predicted SR (or any move besides Knock Off/Crunch).
They can, but most of the time it's not worth it. Most teams have answers to Lati@s and Starmie, so why risk having your Defog / Rapid Spin user killed just to get them in? Even if the opposing team is very weak to Lati@s and Starmie, is it worth risking to lose such a great asset against this team by risking to switch into Krookodile?
Well I don't see a point in outspeeding Breloom considering I don't think you'd have a ghost of a chance against it anyway and Krook can't pivot like Land-T can. However I did try out some spreads using the Knock Off/EQ/Taunt/SR set and the one I'm currently liking the most is a 204HP/200Def/104Spd setup.
It lets you retain most of that retardedly high physical defense but with the extra speed invested, you can outspeed full speed Tyrannitar which is becoming quite common this gen with Tyranniboah/Specialtar style sets coming back into fashion and a significant one, it also beats the average defensive Bold Tentacruel the most satisfying one however is outspeeding defensive Mew or Celebi and although not killing them but punishing them quite badly with Knock Off.
As a bonus you'll also outspeed the average full defensive Gliscor being able to Taunt it and stop it from trying to get a stall going but won't be able to kill it unfortunately lest you dropped Stealth Rock for Ice Fang. Outspeeding faster Mandibuzz sets also becomes possible but I don't suggest trying it since it'll probably disarm you with Knock Off plus again you can't kill it without Ice Fang (this is becoming quite a re-occuring theme...).
How about an assault vest set? Thanks to intimidate his defense is quite high, and has pretty base HP too. Moreover, he has a really handy movepool for a bulky attack approach: pursuit (wich is very useful paired with intimidate), knock off, crunch, earthquake, stone edge, low kick, brick break, dragon claw or outrage. I think pursuit is very important for him, since it pairs very well with both intimidate and moxie (the first one forcing switches and the second one rewarding you for a succesful trapping). In any case, the ability to turn some 0KO into 2KO can be really useful in order to retaliate your enemy with knock off or earthquake.
A lot of the reason to use Krookodile is centered around the fact that it has access to SR + Taunt, granting it excellent utility (ignoring pure offensive Krookodile here). I feel as though Krookodile prefers a full-out offensive approach or a full-on defensive approach (with its invaluable utility moves). A messy mix between the three just isn't appealing, especially since you lose Leftovers recovery, which is otherwise Krookodile's only form of recovery.
stealth rock was never an egg move for krookodile
I remember now, yes, thank you. So much for a genVI SR Krookodile :D
Well it's pretty easy to RNG a Sandile/Krookodile, give it SR and Knock Off and transfer it through Pokebank :)
I know it can be RNGd, but I have no idea how to abuse RNG, so it's a no-go -_- Anyway, the discussion on how to get a Krookodile with Knock off and Pursuit really doesn't belong in this thread, if I'm not mistaken :)
So, is it just me, or does Krookodile not decimate the Deosharp, and even Deosharp + Aegeslash core that is so popular?
Against Deo-D you can naturally outspeed, hit with STAB Knock Off or simply Taunt so that no hazards can be put out.
Against Bisharp even if you switch in with Intimidate and give Bisharp a +1, you're still faster and Sucker Punch still does nominal damage.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 204 Def Krookodile: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0+ Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 270-320 (96.7 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
That's a guaranteed OHKO with Life Orb recoil if he chooses to
As for Aegeslash, STAB EQ obviously does not fear Kings Shield.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 107-126 (27.1 - 31.9%) -- 51.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 204 Def Krookodile: 93-111 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 204 Def Krookodile: 140-166 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Considering the popularity of this core I'm honestly surprised why defensive Krookodile isn't used more. Fighting, Water and Grass moves (Keldeo aside) and not terribly common in OU compared to other types, and Intimidate users that can Taunt and set Stealth Rock are always welcome on top of STAB Earthquake and Knock Off. Admittedly Ice and Fairy weaknesses are the issue. Thundurus-I is top of the charts currently, but even HP Ice is a gamble.
252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 170-202 (43.1 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
You can't tell me that isn't impressive.
Against Deo-D you can naturally outspeed, hit with STAB Knock Off or simply Taunt so that no hazards can be put out.
Against Bisharp even if you switch in with Intimidate and give Bisharp a +1, you're still faster and Sucker Punch still does nominal damage.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 204 Def Krookodile: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0+ Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 270-320 (96.7 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
That's a guaranteed OHKO with Life Orb recoil if he chooses to
As for Aegeslash, STAB EQ obviously does not fear Kings Shield.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 107-126 (27.1 - 31.9%) -- 51.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 204 Def Krookodile: 93-111 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 204 Def Krookodile: 140-166 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Considering the popularity of this core I'm honestly surprised why defensive Krookodile isn't used more. Fighting, Water and Grass moves (Keldeo aside) and not terribly common in OU compared to other types, and Intimidate users that can Taunt and set Stealth Rock are always welcome on top of STAB Earthquake and Knock Off. Admittedly Ice and Fairy weaknesses are the issue. Thundurus-I is top of the charts currently, but even HP Ice is a gamble.
252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 170-202 (43.1 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
You can't tell me that isn't impressive.
Why 0+ atk on krook tho
Except you don't outspeed it cause Deo-D runs Timid max speed and Krook runs 252/252+ HP/Def, Deo-D can Taunt/Magic Coat or just use Stealth Rock/Spikes before you can hit it and Knock Off only has a small chance to 2HKO Deo-D.
4 Atk Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 158-188 (51.9 - 61.8%)
4 Atk Krookodile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%)
Defensive Krook runs Impish, not Adamant and there's no reason to stay in on Krook at +1, also Krook needs 80 speed EVs with a neutral nature to outspeed 252 Spe Adamant Bisharp and it can't come in on either SD (unless it's running 80 or more Spe investment) or Iron Head.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 226-266 (57.3 - 67.5%)
+3 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 376-445 (95.4 - 112.9%)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Krookodile: 243-289 (61.6 - 73.3%)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Krookodile: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.5%)
Krookodile isn't bad, it certainly has some use in OU as a defensive rock setter that checks/counters some important threats, most importantly Aegislash (counter), (Mega-)Tyranitar (counter) and Bisharp (Check).
I wouldn't advice checking Thundurus with it though, unless you scouted it to not have Focus Blast:
252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 340-402 (86.2 - 102%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 442-523 (112.1 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Or even Grass Knot:
252 SpA Thundurus Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 296-351 (75.1 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Let alone the more uncommon physical Thundurus set:
+1 252 Atk Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 298-352 (75.6 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 387-458 (98.2 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Thundurus U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 176-208 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
That being said Krookodile is by no means a bad mon against the common HO Deo Sharp Aegi core, but it's not as much of a counter as you made it seem.
Impish had a poorer chance to OHKO Aegislash, and Adamant gives a higher stat total so it made more sense to change the nature rather than the EVs. As for Thundurus I actually wasn't implying it should check it, I was just surprised HP Ice was a 3HKO with uninvested SpD. EDIT: Whoops, no Life Orb in that calc, so disregard.
Only without LO.
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