Kyurem

[Frost Nocturne]

I deffinetly dont think it will get Snow warning because that was just the theme they went with RSE..Nothing like that seems to be going on here.Btw gabite over that ugly (BAN ME PLEASE) with a skin problem any day >___>

Yeah I agree he is pretty dang ugly >_< Gabite and his line really do have some amazing designs, and Gabite has Speed+STAB Earthquake as advantages, at the cost of power. I'm just saying Kurimugan will have his uses. Glare is pretty exclusive, and really useful. He also gets encourage and rough skin.

On the topic of Kyumeru, the above poster has a good point that Ice typing isn't nearly as vulnerable to SE hits everywhere in 4th Gen ubers, But with *only*130 offensive stats, I think Rayquaza will be more popular. Though again not many 4th gen ubers like to take Ice, and Frozen World could give him a niche.

 

[master3669]

I see Kyuremu being an EXTREMELY potent lead. with two great offensive stats, and most importantly, an attack that could sharply lower speed AS well as breaking sashes, Kyuremu makes a great lead. I think being a lead is Kyuremu's made niche in Ubers. Please, if this idea becomes famous, give me some credit.

I'm thinking something like

Kyuremu@ Lum berry/Focus Sash Timid?

- Icy Wind on steriods
- D-meteor
- Focus blast
- Dragon Pulse/Ice Beam/HP Fire/Sleep Talk/Outrage

The first two moves are obvious, they only allow deoxys-f,e,and normal forms set up one spikes or SR. "Icy Wind on steriods" also allows you to beat rayquaza and groudon easily. Focus Blast is for Dialga and Darkrai. The last slot is a bit hard to choose. After D-meteor, Kyuremu is really set up bait. After the "Icy Wind on Steriods", you may just pick off the lead with ice beam or dragon pulse, not wasting the D-meteor. Sleep talk is a good option, if you run focus sash, to beat darkrai. HP fire is for scizor and forretress who take little damage from focus blast due to their sp.def investments. Finally, Kyogre may cause this set some trouble, even though Kyogre's best attack against Kyuremu is Ice Beam. Outrage may be ran to do a bunch of damage to Kyogre.

I did not run any calcs at all actually, and I have no idea how to. If I'm wrong about something correct me please.

 

[JSND]

well not mindning his typing a set with subsitute 3 attack in vein of heatran might work.
on something it force out, sub and act away as they switch out. It seems potent to me seeing how succesful i am running Subtran in gen 4

 

[Wafflez]

A lead set can make use of Frozen World+Dual Screens (Frozen World/Reflect/Light Screen/Draco Meteor or Outrage).
Focus Sash + Frozen World ensures that Kyurem will have at least 2 turns most of the time.
Most uber Taunt users (tipically Mewtwo, Darkrai and Mew) can't easily stop it because Frozen World followed by Draco Meteor/Outrage will destroy them.

Have fun with your 5 turn screens =]....The normal Dual screeners are much better then this at it....

 

[idiotfrommars]

I thought I'd post the lead set that has got me to #1 on the PO Wifi leaderboards.

252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Spd
Timid / Life Orb
Draco Meteor
Focus Blast
Frozen World
Shadow Ball

It's been working extremely well and is able to take out most leads in one/two hits, and when playing the wifi teir you can obviously lead with something else if you see a lead match up you don't like.

 

[JSND]

In my book they arent considerated "dragon", one with lol offesive power and the other with ridiculous speed (48 base speed) and also lol special attack. Probably altaria stay in uu but i rather use gabite over the other piece of crap he is destinated to be nu

hah using a gabite that sucks in every other way since he is unevolved over a dragon that can cancel weather and very versatile dragon that have powerful fire fang that is more powerful than that of rayquaza's ?
You are joking
48 base speed is low so just ignore it. Focus on Bulk and power and you'll be set to kill !!!

To say how kurimugan played to me sounds similar to how kyuremu played so i might try to test
kyuremu later. He just have the right tools for it

 

[Raptorg]

So, I guess Frozen World is the very definition of trolling, right?

Why the hell give a pokemon an existing move with 10 more BP, while it can already learn said existing move as their signature move? With less PP, no less!

That's almost like Latias' signature move which is actually better but still terrible.

 

[Green Thunder]

77/90/90 arent that good, and his only stat boosting move is claw sharpen. I'll use gabite over him 100% of the times

But gabite doesn't have brute force and is so predictable and you act like gabite isn't ugly also :/

 

[manav95]

Kyuremu might be OU for once.

 

[shrang]

I don't know why people are downplaying Kyuremu so quickly. Yes, Ice type sucks, he is susceptible to every entry hazard, weak to SR, Bullet Punch and a multitude of priority, but have we already forgotten his good qualities?? Draco Meteor coming off base 130 SpA?? Yes, you can say Latios has that too, but are we also forgetting Kyuremu also has Outrage coming from base 130 Atk (And Latios is lolPursuitweak)?? Latios can't touch Blissey and Chansey, while Kyu can destroy both. Base 95 Speed is fairly decent too, and with 125/90/90 defenses, he can last even with SR weakness and a truckload of other weaknesses. Simply put, it would be very hard to have a BST of 660 and be crap. Whether it's broken is a different question, but Kyuremu is anything but "crap" or "outclassed" (Unless you compare him to Rayquaza or something).

 

[Raptorg]

Kyuremu might be OU for once.

In fact, I found that the few times I encountered him with my team he actually went down very smoothly..
He could in fact, be OU and not tear shit up.

 

[Syberia]

Yes, you can say Latios has that too, but are we also forgetting Kyuremu also has Outrage coming from base 130 Atk (And Latios is lolPursuitweak)?? Latios can't touch Blissey and Chansey, while Kyu can destroy both.

Are you forgetting Psycho Shock?

 

[Banryu]

Are you forgetting Psycho Shock?

True, but the coverage is somewhat forgettable, and Latios needs as many slots as it can for coverage / other stuff (like CM and/or Recover), doesn't it? Psycho Shock is usually the option of choice for Pokemon who don't get a better STAB (IE, pure Psychics and those with crappy secondary typing like Flying or Normal).

 

[jrrrrrrr]

After using Kyuremu extensively, I can say that it is by far the most underrated Pokemon in BW. It is strong enough to easily be top-tier OU. This thing has swept for me over and over again. A Choice Scarf set is what I've been killing with.

The SR weakness is overshadowed by its 125/90/90 defenses. Stealth Rock isn't mandatory like it was in DP, so that weakness is lessened even more. Fighting weakness isn't that bad considering Kyu is faster than almost every Fighting-type in the game. Mach Punch can be a pain if you switch into Stealth Rock, but it's not as bad as you would think because of its stats. My personal favorite thing to do in BW is tank a Breloom Mach Punch and then OHKO it with Ice Beam.

With the same Special Attacking stat as Latios, its STAB Draco Meteor HURTS. It also has Dragon Pulse to back it up. Oh and on top of that, it also has the strongest Ice Beam in all of Pokemon, and last time I checked Ice was a great attacking type. Focus Blast is more than enough coverage...although a fire move would have been good too.

95 base Speed makes it kind of a pain when your opponent switches in another Dragon type, especially because you never know if they're scarfed, but it is still better than most of OU. But its Dragon typing is also great considering how many new good Grass and Water types were put into BW. Kyu doesn't have many problems switching in.

Using a physical move like Outrage might be tempting with its great attack stat, but there aren't many special walls in BW that would be hit harder by that. Blissey isn't common yet. The worst part about Kyu is that it doesn't even learn any physical Ice moves. Not Ice Fang, not Ice Shard, not Icicle Spear, NOTHING. If it had something to back up Outrage with, I would be a much happier person. I can't wait for Pokemon Gray version to buff this mon even more.

Don't underestimate this thing.

 

[Ice-eyes]

After using Kyuremu extensively, I can say that it is by far the most underrated Pokemon in BW. It is strong enough to easily be top-tier OU. This thing has swept for me over and over again. A Choice Scarf set is what I've been killing with.

The SR weakness is overshadowed by its 125/90/90 defenses. Stealth Rock isn't mandatory like it was in DP, so that weakness is lessened even more. Fighting weakness isn't that bad considering Kyu is faster than almost every Fighting-type in the game. Mach Punch can be a pain if you switch into Stealth Rock, but it's not as bad as you would think because of its stats. My personal favorite thing to do in BW is tank a Breloom Mach Punch and then OHKO it with Ice Beam.

With the same Special Attacking stat as Latios, its STAB Draco Meteor HURTS. It also has Dragon Pulse to back it up. Oh and on top of that, it also has the strongest Ice Beam in all of Pokemon, and last time I checked Ice was a great attacking type. Focus Blast is more than enough coverage...although a fire move would have been good too.

95 base Speed makes it kind of a pain when your opponent switches in another Dragon type, especially because you never know if they're scarfed, but it is still better than most of OU. But its Dragon typing is also great considering how many new good Grass and Water types were put into BW. Kyu doesn't have many problems switching in.

Using a physical move like Outrage might be tempting with its great attack stat, but there aren't many special walls in BW that would be hit harder by that. Blissey isn't common yet. The worst part about Kyu is that it doesn't even learn any physical Ice moves. Not Ice Fang, not Ice Shard, not Icicle Spear, NOTHING. If it had something to back up Outrage with, I would be a much happier person. I can't wait for Pokemon Gray version to buff this mon even more.

Don't underestimate this thing.

So what's the advantage over Sazandora or Latios as a Scarfer? It can't revenge-kill DDMence / Ono, the extra bulk is offset by a crippling Stealth Rock weakness, it doesn't resist Fire or Ground, it's weak to Bullet Punch and it doesn't have Flamethrower + U-Turn like Dora or Surf like Latios.

Ice is a great attacking type in itself, but it offers almost totally negligible coverage with Dragon (Sazandora rarely uses Dark Pulse for a similar reason).

None of your logic suggests why Kyuremu is better than either Sazandora or Latios as a Scarf user.

 

[shrang]

So what's the advantage over Sazandora or Latios as a Scarfer? It can't revenge-kill DDMence / Ono, the extra bulk is offset by a crippling Stealth Rock weakness, it doesn't resist Fire or Ground, it's weak to Bullet Punch and it doesn't have Flamethrower + U-Turn like Dora or Surf like Latios.

Ice is a great attacking type in itself, but it offers almost totally negligible coverage with Dragon (Sazandora rarely uses Dark Pulse for a similar reason).

None of your logic suggests why Kyuremu is better than either Sazandora or Latios as a Scarf user.

I personally won't use Kyumeru as a Scarfer, since Kyumeru suggests more of a wallbreaker than anything, but I'll list some advantages that Kyumeru might have as a Scarfer:

-Bulk. Yes SR kind of makes you less bulky, but Kyumeru can still take many hits like nothing due to his epic defenses.
-Not Pursuit weak. This more applies to Latios, yes, but I also hate my Scarfer shooting an unboosted Draco Meteor or something like that into Tyranitar or Scizor and watch it get trapped and die. Probably why I didn't like using Scarf Latias in 4th gen.
-Higher offenses. Means Kyumeru can go mixed and still hit hard on both ends of the spectrum. Dora can go mixed too, but without the same kind of efficiency as Kyumeru (105/125 is substantially less than 130/130)

EDIT: The Ice-STAB isn't as useless as people state, either. At least you can spam it and still hit some Steel-types for neutral damage (NATTOREI, Skarmory, DORYUUZU are just a few) while being a decent STAB with good coverage (As opposed to Psychic from Latios, Dark is an okay STAB, I guess).

 

[Afti]

I'm going to back up Scarf Kyurem; I've been using it, and until DW Ditto comes out it's the best revenge killer in the game, pretty much. That Draco Meteor HURTS, and Ice Beam is a great, extremely powerful coverage move. Doryuuzu can take a -2 Draco Meteor or a Dragon Pulse after Kyurem kills something, but Ice Beam eats it alive.

Don't underestimate this thing; it will tear you up.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

So what's the advantage over Sazandora or Latios as a Scarfer? It can't revenge-kill DDMence / Ono, the extra bulk is offset by a crippling Stealth Rock weakness, it doesn't resist Fire or Ground, it's weak to Bullet Punch and it doesn't have Flamethrower + U-Turn like Dora or Surf like Latios.

Its main advantage over both of them is its STAB Ice Beam. Having that as your BACKUP move is awesome. There are a lot of great Grass, Ground and Flying types that were added this gen and this guy hits all of them hard.

I guess the next advantage is its great defenses. This thing can even take priority moves its 2x weak to and OHKO back, whereas Latios is KOd even by moves it is neutral to. 125/90/90 and Dragon typing is nothing to scoff at defensively.

The SR weakness isn't as bad as you would think (in my experience at least). It's not mandatory anymore, and even if it was I would rather have Kyu's defenses at 75% than a lot of OU's at 87.5%. It might be a pain but its weakness to SR is far from "crippling"

It hits slightly harder than Dora, and its backup STAB isn't useless. I'll admit that Kyu is competing for a spot on the team with it though.

Latios is probably going to be banned (esp when Soul Dew comes out) so I refrained from initially talking about it. 130 base Attack sets Kyu apart from it, even if its only viable physical move is Outrage. Latios can only use Trick or a specialized Dragon Dance moveset to beat special walls, while Kyu can take care of them with no EV investment. Latios is also Pursuit weak and has relatively thin defenses.

I'm not trying to say that this pokemon doesn't have competition for teamslots, I'm saying that this thing has a 660 base stat total and two of the best STABs in the game. I don't see it falling into BL/UU any time soon, especially once they witness me wreck with it :D

Ice is a great attacking type in itself, but it offers almost totally negligible coverage with Dragon (Sazandora rarely uses Dark Pulse for a similar reason).

Ice Beam is stronger than Dragon Pulse and hits more things Super Effective. Kyu has the strongest Ice Beam in Pokemon history. It's not about neutrality, it is about knocking mons out. Ice and Dragon may overlap each other a bit, but with Focus Blast Kyuremu has perfect neutral coverage (except lol Shedinja). The overlap isn't as bad as you'd think in practice.

Ice actually isn't THAT bad along with Dragon, since most of the common Steels are neutral to Ice anyways. Nattorei (Grass/Steel), Doryuuzu (Ground/Steel), and Skarmory all attempt to wall it but wind up getting badly hurt. There are Scizors around, but they take enough from Draco Meteor. You shouldn't stay in on it anyways because of Bullet Punch, so that's a lost battle even if Focus Blast is there. Or you could just use lol HP Fire.

I never meant to imply that Kyu has no problems, it just has to predict one type and act accordingly. You can always just pair it with Magnezone if you're that worried.

 

[Saria]

Today i fought a scarf kyuremu and he literally did nothing to my team besides scaring my skymin once (i missed leech seed and i was behind a sub btw) , he only swtiched in twice because hazards owned him and my burungeru literraly stalled him to dead. The only set of kyuremu i find somehow useful without being outclassed by other pokemons is the anti-lead set, but besides that he dont have any other good options to not be outclassed

 

[IcyMan28]

While Kyuremu is underrated, I don't think its potential lies in the Scarf set. Even despite the fact that it takes damage from all hazards and has redundant coverage, the fact is that it still has only 95 base speed. You are losing to DD Ononokuso and up, which is depressing considering the amount of Scarf and speed-boosting threats this gen.

The point has been brought up of Ice Beam as a secondary STAB...we all know that they only reason its even considered is because Kyuremu doesn't have better options (although it is admittedly a great secondary attacking type) Sazandora doesn't run Dark Pulse because both that and Dragon moves are walled by steels; why not just run Flamethrower or Earth Power instead?

Lack of weakness to entry hazards give it comparable bulk; after SR, Sazando sits at 285/216/216 while Kyuremu has 294/216/216. Meanwhile Latios, the other contender, finds itself with 264/196/256 defenses, so Kyuremu's "bulk" advantage really isn't as noticeable on teams that employ Stealth Rock, and a single layer of spikes is even more favorable for Sazandora and Latios, both of which hold an additional 5 and 4 resistances at the cost of 0 and 1 additional weaknesses, respectively.

 

[Lunanight]

it has so many weaknesses and poor movepool so is it even worth sending it to ubers.

sure it has like a 680 TBS but it only has about 4-5 useful moves which is not good as it makes it predictible.

all the 4th gen ubers pokemon (except wobbufett) have good movepool and can force switches.

- weak to bullet punch AND mach punch, not good
- STILL weak to dragon
- easily revenge killed
- weak to stealth rock
- not many resistances for a dragon

I say OU, for now. maybe when the 3rd game comes out (pokemon gray?), it will be uber due to a wider movepool

Kyu has the strongest Ice Beam in Pokemon history.

accually, deoxys-a REALLY wants a word with you.

Last I checked: 180 SpAtk > 130 SpAtk

 

[1234gjy]

it has so many weaknesses and poor movepool so is it even worth sending it to ubers.

sure it has like a 680 TBS but it only has about 4-5 useful moves which is not good as it makes it predictible.

all the 4th gen ubers pokemon (except wobbufett) have good movepool and can force switches.

- weak to bullet punch AND mach punch, not good
- STILL weak to dragon
- easily revenge killed
- weak to stealth rock
- not many resistances for a dragon

I say OU, for now. maybe when the 3rd game comes out (pokemon gray?), it will be uber due to a wider movepool



accually, deoxys-a REALLY wants a word with you.

Last I checked: 180 SpAtk > 130 SpAtk

STAB=1.5x more SpA. So Kyuremu still wins.

I have been using a set with sub/focus blast/frozen world/dragon pulse with leftovers. It works great. Walls can't break the sub and if an attacker comes in, they get hit by frozen which halves their speed, leaving them open to another attack. Pretty awesome.

 

[Dragon Rider]

I'm going to repost the 2 defensive movesets (note no EVs or Nature yet) I posted before and see about getting some help with these.

Kyurem @ Leftovers
nature? EVs enough to make 101 HP Subs.(Did check on this.56 EVs with a 31 IV will give you 405)
-Frozen World
-Substitute
-Protect
-Focus Blast/Draco Meteor/Toxic

This Kyurem is designed to work with Hail (optional) and as many entry hazards as possible.Frozen World will cut their speed down meaning you can throw Subs up before they hit.With 2 layers of Toxic Spikes it takes 6 turns for a pokemon to faint if it stays in which is not hard with the Sub/Protect combo.Hail along with Stealth Rock/Spikes helps wear them down even faster.Stealth Rock and Spikes are especially helpful against steel types that are immune to Toxic Spikes. As a bonus, most of the strongest attacks have a PP total between 8-16 which gets worn down quickly with Kyurem's Pressure ability.

Steel types are the greatest threat.Highest on that list is Metagross and Scizor due to Bullet Punch and nuetrality to Focus Blast.Focus Blast is its best bet against Steel-Types.Draco Meteor can be used to deal with Poison-Types who will absorb Toxic Spikes or the Levitators/Flyers that get around Toxic/Spikes.Toxic is also a minor option if you don't want to set up Toxic Spikes making Kyurem a little more self contained.


The second set is:

Kyurem @ Light Clay
nature? evs?
-Frozen World
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Draco Meteor/Focus Blast

Double screen with a twist.That twist is Frozen World.If something switches into Frozen World, you gain the ability to outrun the opponent and set up the appropriate Screen to cut incoming damage in half.After that you have 2 main options.Leave Kyurem in to deal with the opponent or switch.Many Pokemon will have an easier time setting up on something with reduced speed and reduced attacking capabilities.This is especially true if the opponent is Choiced and your set up Pokemon resists or immune to the attack.

Focus Blast for hits against steels or Meteor to inflict damage since you will likely switch after setting up Screens anyway.Most non-Steel Pokemon will have a hard time surviving Frozen World+Draco Meteor.

So thoughts/opinions/criticism/advise/HELP?

 

[Granstafer]

I'm going to repost the 2 defensive movesets (note no EVs or Nature yet) I posted before and see about getting some help with these.

Kyurem @ Leftovers
nature? EVs enough to make 101 HP Subs.(Did check on this.56 EVs with a 31 IV will give you 405)
-Frozen World
-Substitute
-Protect
-Focus Blast/Draco Meteor/Toxic

This Kyurem is designed to work with Hail (optional) and as many entry hazards as possible.Frozen World will cut their speed down meaning you can throw Subs up before they hit.With 2 layers of Toxic Spikes it takes 6 turns for a pokemon to faint if it stays in which is not hard with the Sub/Protect combo.Hail along with Stealth Rock/Spikes helps wear them down even faster.Stealth Rock and Spikes are especially helpful against steel types that are immune to Toxic Spikes. As a bonus, most of the strongest attacks have a PP total between 8-16 which gets worn down quickly with Kyurem's Pressure ability.

Steel types are the greatest threat.Highest on that list is Metagross and Scizor due to Bullet Punch and nuetrality to Focus Blast.Focus Blast is its best bet against Steel-Types.Draco Meteor can be used to deal with Poison-Types who will absorb Toxic Spikes or the Levitators/Flyers that get around Toxic/Spikes.Toxic is also a minor option if you don't want to set up Toxic Spikes making Kyurem a little more self contained.


The second set is:

Kyurem @ Light Clay
nature? evs?
-Frozen World
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Draco Meteor/Focus Blast

Double screen with a twist.That twist is Frozen World.If something switches into Frozen World, you gain the ability to outrun the opponent and set up the appropriate Screen to cut incoming damage in half.After that you have 2 main options.Leave Kyurem in to deal with the opponent or switch.Many Pokemon will have an easier time setting up on something with reduced speed and reduced attacking capabilities.This is especially true if the opponent is Choiced and your set up Pokemon resists or immune to the attack.

Focus Blast for hits against steels or Meteor to inflict damage since you will likely switch after setting up Screens anyway.Most non-Steel Pokemon will have a hard time surviving Frozen World+Draco Meteor.

So thoughts/opinions/criticism/advise/HELP?

Scizor is a great threat with bullet punch, especially on the first set. Magnezone is a good partner on all sets, as it can come in and kill the steels, especially scizor, with hp fire. im to lazy too point out anything else...

 

[jchen]

Its main advantage over both of them is its STAB Ice Beam. Having that as your BACKUP move is awesome. There are a lot of great Grass, Ground and Flying types that were added this gen and this guy hits all of them hard.

I guess the next advantage is its great defenses. This thing can even take priority moves its 2x weak to and OHKO back, whereas Latios is KOd even by moves it is neutral to. 125/90/90 and Dragon typing is nothing to scoff at defensively.

The SR weakness isn't as bad as you would think (in my experience at least). It's not mandatory anymore, and even if it was I would rather have Kyu's defenses at 75% than a lot of OU's at 87.5%. It might be a pain but its weakness to SR is far from "crippling"

Kyuremu takes 90.3-106.1% from scizor/breloom priority, guaranteed OHKO with any entry hazard or prior damage. its not living through it.

Latios takes 75.8% MAX from bullet punch, which means even after 1 SR hit scizor will NEVER OHKO, hell it will almost never OHKO after 2 rounds of SR damage. and thats basically the strongest priority move in the game, discounting some sucker punches and arceus ES.
all calcs done assuming 4/0 for both.

Kyuremu is neutral to ice while latios resists fighting. can anyone comment on whether ice shard is more/less common than vacuum wave+mach punch?