Lanturn (SubCharge)

[Random Pizzaman]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/lanturn

Plain and simple, this set is awesome and should be on site. I've been using it and it's surpassed my expectations, and it was also in Flareblitz's Round 3, so I'm going to go ahead and do this (I'm pretty sure no one has this reserved or anything).

[SET]
name:UU SubCharge
move1:Charge Beam
move2:Substitute
move3:Hydro Pump / Surf
move4:Ice Beam
item:Leftovers
nature:Modest
EVs:104 HP / 252 SpA / 28 SpD / 124 Spe

Why this deserves to be on- site:
-Sets up on and beats many special walls easily (Milotic, Chansey, Registeel, Clefable), and grabs Charge Beam boosts easily.
-With a combination of Subtitute and Charge Beam, you'll beat Chansey and other pokemon that rely on Seismic Toss.
-Meaty substitutes 101+ HP, still remains pretty bulky overall which helps setting up.
-Hits hard with max SpA, very hard after a few boosts, perfect coverage, and is very good against stall and slower teams.

Additional Comments:
-Surf or even Thunderbolt for a more accurate STAB attack, but Hydro Pump is necessary to beat Chansey.
-EVs: 101HP+ Substitutes and 5 Subs, 124 Spe to outspeed Standard Milotic, max SpA for hittin' stuff

Teammates and Counters:
-Pokemon that draw out special walls: Houndoom, Missy, Moltres, Swellow / Scyther. They will enjoy having Chansey or Milotic out of the way.
-Venusaur stops you, faster physical attackers revenge you easily (DUGTRIO), Registeel w/ Earthquake. Moltres is a great switch into most of your counters.
-Toxic completely screws you over, especially Toxic Spikes.

 

[firecape]

How is that different then this one? I different EV spread, but the one on that was tweaked by QC, it doesn't really need a different set for UU if they are the same exact thing I think, just an alternate EV spread mentioned in the AC for UU? (I didn't see the fact this was for UU at first, but still, I think that set covers this fine...)

 

[Fatecrashers]

Like this?

These are essentially the same set, achieving the same purpose, with different EV spreads to help Lanturn play effectively in different tiers.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Hey, glad you used my EVs, or close enough. Not much I can say about this, except possibly to mention Heal Bell in AC over Ice Beam. You lose to Venusaur but you can do some nice team support and eliminate any Toxic/Toxic Spikes issues.

Edit: Yeah UU definitely needs a different spread and an analysis free of Breloom and shit.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

How is that different then this one? I different EV spread, but the one on that was tweaked by QC, it doesn't really need a different set for UU if they are the same exact thing I think, just an alternate EV spread mentioned in the AC for UU? (I didn't see the fact this was for UU at first, but still, I think that set covers this fine...)

Oh, didn't see that before. But still, although they're the same set, the metagames are completely different (which is why the EVs are different), and the set would require a completely different write up for use in UU.
EDIT: Changed name to UU SubCharge to differentiate the sets.

 

[Forte.EXE]

...Can't this alternate set for UU be posted in AC, and just rename the OU SubCharge set "SubCharge"?

 

[FlareBlitz]

Again, the problem with that is the comments. If I want to use a lanturn in UU and I go to the analysis it will not help me when it talks about breloom and jirachi and finally in AC mentions "also you can use this in UU lol".

 

[Forte.EXE]

Again, the problem with that is the comments. If I want to use a lanturn in UU and I go to the analysis it will not help me when it talks about breloom and jirachi and finally in AC mentions "also you can use this in UU lol".

Good point. Well, to whoever eventually does write this up for UU (if it's a approved, which it probably will be), you'll want to stress the need for a Rapid Spinner. Toxic Spikes completely neuters Lanturn, and one of Lanturn's best teammates, Moltres, is damaged badly by Stealth Rock. You might want to mention that Dugtrio, when Revenging, has to be especially careful coming into Lanturn. Also, maybe slash Life Orb?

Edit: Actually, looking at your teammates section, Rapid Spin support helps everything listed. So yeah, you're seriously going to want to stress Rapid Spin.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Life Orb kills Lanturn's survivability, since Lanturn is pretty bulky, Sub+LO damage would wear it down way too fast and the power isn't too necessary. Also, I wouldn't want to be taking LO damage when shooting off weak Charge Beams.
And on spinning. My problem with spinners is that none of them really mesh well with Lanturn. Toxic Spikes can just be taken care of by a poison type, so it's not really something to stress hardcore, but a mention should be good.

 

[Scoopapa]

Are you not allowed to mix this with the OU subcharge set, call it SubCharge, and mention both tiers in the analysis? That seems like the most effecient way to me. Mention at the beginning of the comments "this set works in uu and ou". That way, you don't have so many different sets on the page.

Good point. Well, to whoever eventually does write this up for UU (if it's a approved, which it probably will be), you'll want to stress the need for a Rapid Spinner. Toxic Spikes completely neuters Lanturn, and one of Lanturn's best teammates, Moltres, is damaged badly by Stealth Rock. You might want to mention that Dugtrio, when Revenging, has to be especially careful coming into Lanturn. Also, maybe slash Life Orb?

Edit: Actually, looking at your teammates section, Rapid Spin support helps everything listed. So yeah, you're seriously going to want to stress Rapid Spin.

Only mention Rapid Spin if it directly helps Lanturn in a significant way, not because it helps your suggested teammates significantly. The ways to support those teammates is already on their respective pages, which means that any mention of it here will be less detailed and redundant. We don't need every analysis of a pokemon who partners well with Moltres pointing out that it needs Rapid Spin. If someone is building a team, follows your team options advice, and adds a Moltres, they should look at its page before slapping it on the team. If they do this, they'll notice that it's SR weak and needs spin support. The analyses are not meant to theorymon your entire team or offensive core, they're meant to give the team builder the information he needs to set up a core on his own. If you want to address larger ideas about teams, talk about types of teams (i.e. offensive, balanced, stall) so that you're giving a suggestion that accommodates team building, rather than predetermining it. Smogon is a huge reference, and it's annoying to have information about pokemon other than the one whose analysis you are reading cluttering up the analyses, especially when you know exactly where to find said information when you want it. Please keep this in mind before adding extra sentences to the team options section.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Uh if the OU peeps are fine with the EV changes (which, if I were an OU QC member, I wouldn't be because the speed is completely pointless up there and very necessary down here) then sure, we could merge the sets. But remember, in my QC round, I also wanted to split Ludicolo's OU and uU analysis, mostly for this same reason (and moveslot differences).

 

[Jonathan]

While I think this set should be written up for UU, I am strongly against merging the set comments with the OU set comments. Anyone who has actually read my analysis will notice how much I refer to specific OU Pokemon in the comments and how the set is designed to react to them. And as FlareBlitz has mentioned the EV spread is different, so it would get really long and messy if we merged them. Also there's precedent for writing up two separate sets for a Pokemon based on the tier the set is supposed to be used in (see Infernape's analysis, there is an OU Physical Mix and a Ubers Physical Mix set; they have the same moves, slightly different EV spreads, but very different set comments).

By the way FlareBlitz, how's your UU Lanturn analysis coming along?

 

[FlareBlitz]

My Lanturn analysis? @.@

When did I commit to a Lanturn analysis? D:

I'm doing my Mismagius analysis and waiting for proof-reads on the Jynx analysis right now, I had no idea anyone was even expecting me to write up Lanturn.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

So I guess the consensus is that this is going to be 2 different sets. Will it be two totally different sets, or two set comments, a la Dugtrio? Still waiting on another approval (or is it 2 now?).

And Flare, I think he's thinking that you were doing a Lanturn analysis since you had it in your QC.

 

[FlareBlitz]

It will be two different sets, due to the differing EV spreads. Edit because I accidentally gave you two koffings. I blame girls. Pretty sure this will make it though, so you can probably start the writeup, as long as you understand that another QC member might ask you to make some changes.

 

[Jonathan]

Lanturn is a part of my UU QC round, and the changes I outlined in my thread are major enough that a revamp is feasible. If no one else is willing to do it I'd be glad to write it up in accordance with current standards, although I don't know how quickly I'll be able to get it done.

This is the last post in the thread for my analysis. I'm waiting for someone to do it so my set can be uploaded. No pressure if you don't wanna do it, I was just under the impression you wanted to.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I completely forgot about that...sorry. Yeah, if you're willing to do it I have no problems with you writing it up, but if you don't want to then I have no issues doing it.

 

[Jonathan]

I've never played UU, so I don't think I'm in a position to write up a UU analysis. I hate to dump this on you, as I see you're already working on a few other analyses. So no problem if you don't want to do it, but please let me know asap so I can find someone to do it if you don't want to :)

 

[FlareBlitz]

No, it's fine, I'll write it up. It should be done by the end of next week.

 

[Jonathan]

Great, thank you so much!

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Bump?

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

To clarify, a UU analysis does not have to be updated for an OU analysis of the same Pokemon to be posted. And yeah, it's probably not a good idea to merge the sets even if they are similar (look at the mess that is Choice Scarf Dugtrio).

Anyway, this set is good.

QC Approved 2/2

And moving.

 

[Jonathan]

To clarify, a UU analysis does not have to be updated for an OU analysis of the same Pokemon to be posted. And yeah, it's probably not a good idea to merge the sets even if they are similar (look at the mess that is Choice Scarf Dugtrio).

Yeah I just came across Ludicolo's on-site analysis today and came to that conclusion... in which case can I request that my set be uploaded to the main site? I've already got two Grammar Checks and the three set approvals.

 

[Johto-Master]

It's amazing when your opponent's special wall ends up being nothing more than set up bait. SubCharge Lanturn is extremely effective Late or even Mid-Game, because as long as the faster threats and heavy Grass and Ground hitters are away, Lanturn grabs Charge Beam boosts like mad and blasts away even the dreaded Chansey.

More often then not I find Charge Beam knocking out a Pokémon, and by the time something that a Pokémon that could normally take an Ice Beam or even Surf is out, it's too late as Lanturn has taken too many boosts.

While Grass and Ground can stop it cold, it needs a little scouting and checks before it comes in, but all-in-all it's a great set and definitely needs to be on site.

 

[SJCrew]

No doubt, Charge Beam Lanturn is a great set, but I feel Twave deserves a spot there as well. I've experienced phenominal success with it, as its most common switch-ins are Grass types, all of whom are either fucked over by Twave or are slower and get Ice Beamed (lol Torterra). Also, it's much easier to attempt a Charge sweep when Lanturn is faster than everything (which is also why I used a lot of speed EVs, but hey, that's just me). You're gonna have to be careful with Dugtrio and Hitmonlee, but otherwise you have a real beast on your hands.

Try it out, it's awesome.