Metagame Last Will

[Pipotchi]

The meta seems quite fun. I think explosion/hyper beam etc arent as good as they seem because you are pretty much throwing away a moveslot for it. Most mons dont actually appreciate exploding or using recharge moves. On the other hand, if you can get behind a substitute, protect, or switch to something better upon killing the opponent you're gunna be happy. So i can see toxic becoming a lot more useful, as well as steel types for avoiding said toxic and also eating explosions/hyperbeams/giga impacts..
I can see hazard stacking being really good because a lot of mons atm seem to be designed around waiting for you to kill them to set up for the next pokemon, and stuff like trick room cant even click trick room in the last slot if they fear a knockout because double-use reverses the trick room. Stallier teams are going to be able to find time to set up all their hazards because Roar on death will invalidate anything the opponent was doing in the meantime.

edit: how do 2-turn moves work on death? for instance solar beam. will it start to charge and then die before the move completes? thats how id expect the move to work.

 

[anaconja]

edit: how do 2-turn moves work on death? for instance solar beam. will it start to charge and then die before the move completes? thats how id expect the move to work.

If I recall playing a few weeks ago, it doesn't work. It just says Pokemon absorbed light! and then dies.

Edit: here's the replay
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7lastwill-30099

 

[Pipotchi]

Ah okay, thats what I thought. Makes sense.

By the way, phasing on death doesnt work right now. My Skarmory used whirlwind on dying, but it didnt force the opponent to switch.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7lastwill-30098

 

[Glitchwood High]

ENDEAVOR IS BANNED, ITS BROKEN.

Nice job! On the banlist, it said unless you are ghost type-Scrappy Endeavor users are out there, though.

 

[anaconja]

By the way, phasing on death doesnt work right now. My Skarmory used whirlwind on dying, but it didnt force the opponent to switch.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7lastwill-30098

Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7lastwill-30119
The Whismur did hit a Circle Throw, but the Necrozma didn't switch. Could be the fact that the Whismur fainted.

 

[motherlove]

When you dtail/spin on a rocky helmet and die it doesn't take effect so I assume it's the same mechanic.

 

[Pipotchi]

But phasing status moves should still work then, even if for some reason phasing attacks are working as intended.

edit: there isnt an ingame situation where you can phaze with roar/whirlwind and die before the attack is completed, so i would expect the concept of the meta to cause roar/whirlwind to activate fully before death. im v confused by this concept but oh well

 

[urkerab]

But phasing status moves should still work then, even if for some reason phasing attacks are working as intended.

I'm afraid the same code is used for all phazing moves, so the phaze doesn't take effect if either has fainted.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Literally nothing other than ground types and Zekrom switch into band Golem-Alola. Kill the ground types and go hog wild.

 

[Akumeoy]

Substitute/Protect + Toxic/Leech Seed will be cool in this meta. You'll be safe from the opponent's last will while they die from residual damage. SubCoil Zygarde looks fun, defensive Celesteela looks fun, shit even Gliscor looks fun.

Mons might also want to forego putting a STAB in their last slot, and instead picking coverage for the things that are likely to kill them. Tangrowth final willing a Giga Drain onto an opposing Heatran isn't worthwhile, even if that is technically its strongest attack. Drop Earthquake in that last slot, or Rock Slide for Zard Y or whatever, and you're in business. Coverage that hits mons that easily "revenge kill" you will be undervalued a bit -- Tangrowth taking out Mega Scizor with HP Fire on the switch-in is not nearly as attractive a proposition if said Mega Scizor will get a free U-Turn on it when it does.

Shedinja also looks fun to block a lot of really annoying Final Will moves (see: any Explosion or Hyper Beam or Hydro Cannon or whatever, -ate or not), and can have a WoW of its own in the fourth slot to fuck with many things that would KO it.

Really, with outspeeding being relatively devalued when good play should grant you a trade whenever you want, I can easily see the meta trending towards bulky offense, balance, and stall.

EDIT: Ditto is a little better here because, iirc, Imposter preserves move order. To reuse an example: is it safe for your Heatran to revenge kill an opposing Tangrowth? Ditto will tell you where it's packing Earthquake, which you wouldn't normally know even if it showed its whole moveset.

 

[Pipotchi]

One thing I noticed about this meta is you can just 100% overload your way to victory, what I mean is that mons will naturally wear down and beat their own checks and counters on death so its fine to have an entirely monotype team for instance. I ran a team with 4 steel types and 2 ghost types and it was really successful because while this team would get wrecked in standard by a magnezone or dugtrio for instance, my mons can get a return kill on a dugtrio just by dying

 

[urkerab]

mod: 'lastwill',

Rather than creating a mod for this, The Immortal might prefer to add an extra 'BeforeFaint' event a couple of lines before the 'Faint' event, and then add something like this to the format:

		onBeforeFaint: function (pokemon) {
			this.add('-activate', pokemon, 'Last Will');
			this.useMove(pokemon.moves.pop(), pokemon);
		},

 

[cityscapes]

lead go

Magcargo @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Recover
- Memento / Explosion / Rock Tomb / Will-O-Wisp / Sandstorm / Sunny Day

there are probably better options but you have so many choices due to this mon's cool movepool. and i mean it's shiny magcargo like what more do you need.

 

[Lavern]

Magcargo has a lot of options but there's a better lead for every option that Magcargo has. Uxie is better for Memento because it has enough bulk to run Mental Herb instead of Sash and also Imprison which prevents bulkier teams from setting up rocks. Azelf is a much better Explosion lead because of its attack stat and taunt, Tailwind Aero or Skarm outclass Rock Tomb Magcargo, Infernape outclasses Will-O Magcargo even though it has better options as the last moveslot and pretty much every Weatherlead gets outclassed by Azelf or Aero. I want to talk about Infernape though because it's a really interesting lead.

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Flare Blitz
- Encore

Infernape is interesting because it's the only Mon that gets Stealth Rocks, Taunt and Encore. Encore is good for HO Teams that have multiple setup-sweepers like Gyarados or Salamence. Gyarados benefits a lot from Nape, as Encore allows it to either set up a Sub or a DD. Sub is really good on sweepers in this meta, because it protects them from getting revenged by the last will of other mons. The good thing about Nape which sets it apart from Shuckle, other than taunt, is that it has access to Blaze Flare Blitz which not only does a lot of damage, but also prevents slower rapid spinners (every spinner that isn't Starmie or Scarfdrill) from spinning. Will-O-Wisp is another option, but I don't think that WoW is a good move on leads, because Toxic is much better, as Toxic is useful against any mon that isn't immune to it, unlike WoW. Infernape might even have a niche as a Toxic lead becuase it threatens Steels with Flare Blitz.

 

[Psychobuzz]

What about if the Pokemon fainting is holding a Shell Bell? If the Pokemon is at 0% health and simply attacks the opponent, would it faint, or would it recover health and stay alive? If it stays alive, then this pokemon would never faint with the exception of indirect damage like toxic and hail/sandstorm damage. Magic Guard + Shell Bell would only add frustration to the opponent.

 

[Spandan]

What about if the Pokemon fainting is holding a Shell Bell? If the Pokemon is at 0% health and simply attacks the opponent, would it faint, or would it recover health and stay alive? If it stays alive, then this pokemon would never faint with the exception of indirect damage like toxic and hail/sandstorm damage. Magic Guard + Shell Bell would only add frustration to the opponent.

After fainting, nothing can happen. A Pokemon can neither be switched out nor healed. It just faints.

 

[Wob]

Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Encore
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Aurora Veil

Surprised no one has mentioned screens here yet because they look really threatening. Aurora Veil in particular seems like it'll be really good. You get to punch holes in the opposing team with Alolan Ninetales and then when you get KOed you can just go out into your sweeper or whatever and just clean with the support from AV. You could also opt for like Choice Specs or Life Orb I guess, sacrificing Dual Screens turns for more breaking power.

 

[Lavern]

I forgot to ask this earlier, but what happens when a Mon has Focus Punch as its 4th move? It's a charging move, but unlike Solar Beam, it charges at the start of the turn and then acts on the end of the same turn and not the next one. Focus Punch wouldn't get interrupted because it starts charging after it took the hit. So would it work or would it charge and the Mon dies before it can hit Focus Punch? Or would it actually charge but then fail because the mon already took a hit that turn, even though that was before it started charging?

 

[anaconja]

I forgot to ask this earlier, but what happens when a Mon has Focus Punch as its 4th move? It's a charging move, but unlike Solar Beam, it charges at the start of the turn and then acts on the end of the same turn and not the next one. Focus Punch wouldn't get interrupted because it starts charging after it took the hit. So would it work or would it charge and the Mon dies before it can hit Focus Punch? Or would it actually charge but then fail because the mon already took a hit that turn, even though that was before it started charging?

I tried it on DH and it worked: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7lastwill-31547

Focus Punch is a good alternative to Explosion for all-out attackers because it gets better distribution and hits types super effectively. Here's a replay of me beating the bot with all Trick Room and Focus Punch mons: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7lastwill-31553

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

I haven't seen baton pass mentioned anywhere, and I feel like it could be pretty powerful. Just by having baton pass as your last move you are pretty much guaranteed to pass

Scolipede @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Protect / Substitute
- Poison Jab / Earthquake / Endeavour
- Megahorn / Toxic Spikes
- Baton Pass

This is an example of a scolipede set, you could run offensive with life orb or even lead sash with toxic spikes and endeavour. Protect guarantees a speed boost but substitute can also be used since scolipede is pretty fast even without a speed boost.

 

[urkerab]

I've noticed that my suggested code results in slightly different behaviour to the code on Dragon Heaven. xZovrahx helped me test on ROM and there Innards Out activates before Last Will while on Dragon Heaven Last Will activates first, which makes an important difference when your Last Will is Pain Split!

I haven't seen baton pass mentioned anywhere, and I feel like it could be pretty powerful.

I don't think switching moves work once you've fainted.

 

[Nahtanojrepus]

I can conform that baton pass does not work as your last will, which I find slightly disappointing. Oh, what could have been.

 

[Cuddly]

Since everything is going to be running some type of nuke or moves like Momentum, how much more viable are Ghost types (namely Shedinja who is immune explosions from Glalie, Lickilicky, and Alolan Golem at once)?

 

[ChucklePackage]

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock/Explosion
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Explosion/Stealth Rock

Azelf could reprise its role as a suicide lead. You could opt for power with double Explosion or explode, then rocks.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Damp finally gets a niche, if Explosion isn't banned.

How would Encore affect Last Will moves? Would they prevent the opponent from using it if they were locked into a 1-3 slot move?

 

[Jrsmash9]

I used Stealth Rocks as my last will and it ended up being used against me.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7lastwill-31688