Gen 3 Latios (Ubers) [GP: 2/2] [DONE]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

Enter the Dragon

[Overview]

Latios is the premier check to Groudon and Kyogre, the two most threatening and important Pokemon in the tier, making it nigh impossible for teams to pass; unless they run Latias instead. Latios is also a top offensive threat itself; Soul Dew effectively gives it a Calm Mind boost, and it is faster than the majority of Pokemon in the tier. Its immunity to Ground and Spikes and resistances to Fighting and Electric are important defensive qualities, increasing Latios's versatility and capacity to come into play. Latios is especially potent with rain support, as its powerful Thunder either heavily damages many of its checks or inconveniences them with its high paralysis rate. Latios is, however, a victim of its own reputation and influence; its prevalence as a key threat forces many teams to explicitly prepare for Latios, denying its standard sets from making substantial progress against them, especially through the use of Blissey and sun. Also, Latios's poor physical bulk means the likes of Deoxys-A, Salac Berry Groudon, and Extreme Speed Rayquaza can revenge kill or sweep through it quite effectively. Latios is also vulnerable to losing Speed ties and Calm Mind wars in some late-game scenarios.

[SET]
name: Offensive Utility
move 1: Recover
move 2: Refresh / Calm Mind
move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 4: Ice Beam / Dragon Claw
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Recover is essential for allowing Latios to check Groudon and Kyogre throughout the game. Refresh allows Latios to remove paralysis and regain its important Speed advantage;Thunder Wave is commonly used by Groudon and Kyogre. Calm Mind can be used to help Latios break through several defensive Pokemon such as Metagross and Ho-Oh. Thunder hits Kyogre for maximum damage, and with rain support, it does well against Ho-Oh, Snorlax, and Steel-types. Thunderbolt is substantially weaker but still hits Kyogre fairly hard and allows Latios to maintain BoltBeam coverage when used on a sun team. Ice Beam hits Groudon hard and covers many foes with Thunder or Thunderbolt. Dragon Claw gives up some damage against Groudon, but it still hits opposing Latios, Latias, and Rayquaza while hitting Snorlax acceptably without having to rely on Thunder and rain. Maximum Special Attack EVs are essential for Latios to function as a strong check to Kyogre and Groudon; they are also important for dealing decent damage to Snorlax and Steel-types. 252 Speed EVs outspeed maximum Speed Rayquaza and Speed tie opposing Modest Latios or Latias. A Timid nature outspeeds Modest Latios and Latias and offensive Lugia, alongside a few other niche threats.

This set is versatile, fitting on most team archetypes, and it requires no specific support. Because this set invites in Blissey, it is important for teams to have strong Blissey checks, such as Snorlax, Forretress, and Metagross. The same goes for Snorlax, making good switch-ins to Snorlax such as Forretress, Metagross, Skarmory, Lugia, Gengar, and Dusclops essential. Trappers such as Magneton, Dugtrio, Umbreon, and Wobbuffet are highly effective at disrupting, trapping, and potentially removing some of its checks. A cleric such as Blissey or Celebi can allow Latios to drop Refresh for Calm Mind, helping Latios check Kyogre and Groudon without sacrificing its sweeping potential.

[SET]
name: Pure Offense
move 1: Calm Mind / Hidden Power Fire
move 2: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 3: Solar Beam
move 4: Dragon Claw
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Pure offense Latios trades some consistency in checking Kyogre and Groudon for increased power. Calm Mind increases Latios's wallbreaking and cleaning potential, letting it tear apart any foe besides Blissey that is not faster than Latios. Hidden Power Fire instead lets Latios hit Shedinja and Steel-types such as Forretress, Metagross, and Jirachi hard under sun. An Electric-type attack is critical for hitting Kyogre, as well as Ho-Oh, Lugia, Skarmory, and Steel-types under rain. With Solar Beam and Dragon Claw, Latios maximizes damage output against Groudon and opposing Latios and Latias, so it has no need for Ice Beam.

Because this set doesn't have great longevity against Kyogre and Groudon, it should be run on offensive teams with secondary Kyogre and Groudon checks such as Latias, Blissey, Lugia, and Kyogre. Blissey is one of the few Pokemon that comfortably checks this set, encouraging teammates that are good at punishing Blissey when it comes in such as Snorlax, Forretress, and Dugtrio. Mixed attackers that can bait Blissey into getting KOed by Self-Destruct or Explosion such as Mewtwo and Regice are also good partners. Spikes from the likes of Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Omastar, or Qwilfish helps chip Steel-types and Snorlax for Latios to later sweep through. Weather sweepers such as Omastar, Qwilfish, Exeggutor, and Kabutops are great for covering Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, and Aerodactyl, which are some of the only Pokemon capable of revenge killing Latios.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
====

A Dragon Dance set with Hidden Power Fighting and coverage moves like Ice Beam, Thunder, Shadow Ball, and Earthquake salvage Latios's workable Attack stat to break through Blissey and Snorlax, its two most common and effective checks. The set requires maximum Attack investment with Soul Dew along with 156 Speed EVs, alongside support from strong Kyogre and Groudon checks. Substitute can be used to block incoming status and scout between several potential switch-ins to maximize damage. Mono-attack Latios with Calm Mind and Dragon Claw could potentially be used, but it is largely outclassed by Latias, which has better defensive stats. Toxic and Thunder Wave can disrupt a few of Latios's common responses, but they are mostly less useful than other utility or offensive moves. Latios could potentially utilize Protect to scout Choice Band users, which commonly target it, but it is otherwise a mostly useless move.

Checks and Counters
====

**Blissey**: Except against Dragon Dance sets, Blissey is a common and fairly secure check to Latios, comfortably tanking Latios's attacks with its massive special bulk and forcing it out with Calm Mind + Ice Beam or Toxic + Seismic Toss. Latios can comfortably click Refresh or Recover before deciding how to punish Blissey with a switch; however, chip damage makes it easier to break through Latios with another Pokemon later. Further, Blissey may run moves such as Snatch and Light Screen to prevent Latios from doing this as well.

**Snorlax**: Although its special bulk isn't as solid as Blissey's, Snorlax is more than capable of tanking Latios's strongest attacks and threatening it with a powerful Body Slam.

**Ho-Oh**: While it gets hit hard by Thunder, Ho-Oh is a fairly effective Latios check in sun that can threaten Latios with status or powerful physical attacks such as Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Flying.

**Steel-types**: Metagross takes heavy damage from Thunder or Hidden Power Fire in sun, but it can switch into Dragon Claw and Ice Beam and can threaten Latios with its strong physical attacks. Similar to Metagross but less potent, Forretress can still force Latios out with the threat of Explosion, Hidden Power Bug, or freely setting or removing Spikes. More niche Steel-types like Jirachi, Steelix, Registeel, and Magneton can soft check Latios due to their resistances. Jirachi can set up with Calm Mind against Latios or use Wish to stall and smack it with Body Slam or Shadow Ball; Steelix is immune to Electric-type attacks and can hit back with strong physical moves; Registeel can set up with Amnesia or threaten Latios with Hidden Power Ghost and Explosion; and Magneton scares Latios out with status.

**Deoxys-D**: Although it takes some damage from Thunder and Dragon Claw, Deoxys-D is generally not worth trading Latios for, forcing Latios out and allowing Deoxys-D to set Spikes or punish the switch with Knock Off or status.

**Regice**: Regice has enough special bulk to tank a few of Latios's attacks and can hit back with Ice Beam or Explosion.

**Shedinja**: Shedinja is immune to most Latios, but it is KOed by Hidden Power Fire and Shadow Ball sets.

**Swampert**: Swampert has decent bulk, is immune to Thunder, and can hit Latios with a fairly strong Hidden Power Ghost.

**Revenge Killers**: Pokemon such as Deoxys-A, Mewtwo, Dragon Claw Latios and Latias, Choice Band Lugia, Choice Band Aerodactyl, and Salac Berry Heracross have the Speed and power to outspeed, or at very least Speed tie, and KO Latios.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Minority, 222996]]
- Quality checked by: [[Inspirited, 127823], [SuperEpicAmpharos, 306959]]
- Grammar checked by: [[dex, 277988], [Finland, 517429]]
 
Last edited:
Blissey is kinda weird as a Lati check. Like, yeah, it definitely shuts down any progress you would ever hope of making with Latios itself but Latios can also just play the Refresh/Recover stall game to bait Blissey into clicking a move it wants to punish and/or making it hard for the Blissey player to setup a double. On the other hand, the chip helps with Blissey team break the Lati later with their Gdon/Kyogre and some Blissey teams run stuff like Deo-A that can come in nicely on a Refresh/Recover turn.

Deo-D deserves a mention. It's better in the Sun, ofc, but it can come in on a forced Refresh from an Kyogre twave and then Latios isn't going to try trading with it so that means it's pretty low risk to toss up a Spike layer. There's a bunch of other mons you could add to the checklist like Umbreon but idk what counts as analysis viable for the QC team.
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
After doing my best to use it and change my opinion on it, I really really think that DD Latios is far too high maintenance for far too little reward to be a main set. OO would be the best place for it imo. Also if you mention the spread in OO, make sure you remove the Speed creep you have there. You only need 294 Speed (152 EVs) to be above 438.

In C&C, the Blissey section needs mention of Light Screen and Snatch with one making Blissey incredibly dangerous to Latios (Toxic, Snatch, Softboiled, Stoss) instead of just forcing passive moves from it and the other making certain teammates more dangerous to it.

Revenge killers need to be added I think. Mostly Deoxys-A and Mewtwo but also claw Latias and Aero on the more niche side of things after Latios has been damaged of course.

I'm really not a fan of Regice but I'll let my QC partner decide its fate.

This should be more than good enough for 1/2 with this added.
 

SEA

show me what to be
is a Pre-Contributor
NUPL Champion
Thunderbolt is legitimately pretty terrible on Latios, and I wouldn't be opposed to Thunderbolt being in OO, even if I doubt it will be. Thunder is seriously superior at everything.

252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Metagross: 175-207 (48 - 56.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Thunder vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Metagross: 222-262 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 169-199 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 213-251 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 171-202 (42.3 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Thunder vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 215-254 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Missing out on reliable 2HKOes on +1 Ogre, Metagross with basically any Sp. Def investment, and max Sp. Def forre is really dumb.

252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 170-200 (46.7 - 54.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Timid Thunderbolt is a joke.

Not mentioning Wobbuffet when you bring up trappers seems like a questionable decision, and especially since Wobbuffet can trap Snorlax and open up a bigger hole for Latios, it seems weird to leave it out.

Regarding the second set, it's not too bad. The only change I'd make is in the move order. Thunder is the most essential move here, followed by Dragon Claw. Then, pick your poison of CM/HP Fire and Solarbeam, I'd personally do CM/HP Fire 3rd and Solarbeam 4th.

I think Jirachi CMing against Latios isn't the thing to mention, but rather spamming Wish and threatening it with Body Slam and Shadow Ball. You can also just add that on the end.

We can keep Regice around.

I think Heracross is worth mentioning as a Check/Counter to Latios.

252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 225-265 (74.5 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Pretty conveniently puts it into Salac Range, so you need a bit of chip to grab an OHKO.

Other than those, this looks good. 2/2.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Wobb, Rachi, and Hera suggestions were implemented.

Obviously Thunder is much better than Thunderbolt, but Thunderbolt will remain slashed for obvious reasons.

This analysis is now ready for GP.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: SEA

Lasen

smiling through it all
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Obviously Thunder is much better than Thunderbolt, but Thunderbolt will remain slashed for obvious reasons.

This analysis is now ready for GP.
before we move this onto GP, I do want to leave a comment about this, I am of the opinion that Thunderbolt should almost never be run but I understand why it's included. I'd like to see a mention of how weak it is by comparison, as the current analysis just mentions "it [still] does good damage to Kyogre" which as SEA highlighted earlier, is hardly true. Timid Latios should also never run Thunderbolt, as the drop in power in that scenario is even more apparent.

QC 3/2, I guess?
 
not really related to the analysis but it's not infrequent at all that kyogre will just beat your latios. if your lati can at least chip it out of the game, that's usually good enough. depends depends
 
  • Like
Reactions: SEA

dex

Hard as Vince Carter’s knee cartilage is
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a CAP Contributor Alumnus
[Overview]

Latios is the premier check to Groudon and Kyogre, the two most threatening and important Pokemon in the tier, which is thereby nemaking it nigh impossible for teams to pass up when in consideradespite its competition with Latias. Latios is also powerful in its own right; Soul Dew effectively gives it a Calm Mind boost and 110 base Speed is faster than a, and it is faster than the majority of Pokemon in the tier, making it one of the top offensive threats around. Ground immunity, immunity to Spikes,Its immunity to Ground and Spikes and resistances to Fighting- and Electric-type attacks serve as additional defensive utiare important defensive qualities, increasing Latios's versatility and capacity to come into play. Latios is especially offensively potent with rain support, allowing it to drop powerful Thunders that many of its checks either take fair damage from or can be furthera lot of damage from or get inconvenienced by its high paralysis rate. Latios is, however, a victim of its own reputation and influence, with such a prevalence as a key threat that many teams have structured; its prevalence as a key threat forces many teams to structure themselves to explicitly deny standard Latios sets from making substantial progress against them, especially through the use of Blissey and sun. Also Latios' weak, Latios's poor physical bulk means it can be revenge killed or cleanedswept through quite effectively by the likes of Deoxys-A, Salac Berry Groudon, Extreme Speed, or Rayquaza, and other fast physical attackers. Latios is also potentially prone to the effects of sSpeed ties and CM wars in some endgame statelate-game scenarios.

[SET]
name: Offensive Utility
move 1: Recover
move 2: Refresh / Calm Mind
move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 4: Ice Beam / Dragon Claw
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Recover is essential for allowing Latios to check Groudon and Kyogre throughout the game. Refresh allows Latios to remove paralysis and regain its important Speed advantages, as Thunder Wave is commonly used by Groudon and Kyogre. Calm Mind can be used to help Latios break through several defensive Pokemon that can be defeated once they are sufficiently chippedsuch as (insert examples). Thunder hits Kyogre for maximum damage, and with rain support, it does well against Ho-Oh, Snorlax, and Steel-types. Thunderbolt is substantially weaker but still hits Kyogre and allows Latios to maintain boltbeamBoltBeam coverage when used on a sun team. Ice Beam hits Groudon hard and covers many Pokemonfoes with Thunder. Dragon Claw gives up some damage against Groudon, but still hits opposing Latios, Latias, and Rayquaza while hitting Snorlax without having to rely on rain support. Maximum special a. Maximum Special Attack EVs are essential for Latios to function as a strong check againsto Kyogre and Groudon, and; they are also important for dealing decent damage to Snorlax and Steel-types. 252 Speed EVs outspeed maximum Speed Rayquaza and give a chance at Speed tying opposingSpeed tie opposing Modest Latios or Latias. A Timid nature increases chances at outspeeding opposing Latios, Latias, or offensive Lugia, as well asoutspeeds Modest Latios and Latias and offensive Lugia alongside a few other niche threats.

This set is versatile, fitting on most styles of teams andteam archetypes, and it requires no specific support. Because this set lets in Blissey easilinvites in Blissey, it is important for teams to have strong Blissey checks, such as Snorlax, Forretress, or Metagross. This set is also a common lure for Snorlax, making good switch-ins to Snorlax such as Forretress, Metagross, Skarmory, Lugia, Gengar, or Dusclops essential. Trappers such as Magneton, Dugtrio, Umbreon, or Wobbuffet are highly effective at disrupting the common responses and resulting sequences that result from this sets presencecommon Latios responses and benefit Latios by trapping and potentially removing some of its checks. A cleric such as Blissey or Celebi can ease the removal of status, especially paralysis, to aide in Latios'allow Latios to drop Refresh for Calm Mind, aiding in Latios's ability to check Kyogre and Groudon without sacrificing its sweeping potential.

[SET]
name: Pure Offense
move 1: Calm Mind / Hidden Power Fire
move 2: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 3: Solar Beam
move 4: Dragon Claw
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

This Latios set is for players more interested in its offense and breaking capability rather thanPure offense Latios trades its ability to check Kyogre and Groudon over long periods of timefor increased power. Calm Mind increases Latios's breaking and cleaning potential against threats not named Blissey or, tearing apart any foe that is not faster than Latios or is Blissey. Hidden Power Fire lets Latios hit Shedinja and Steel-types such as Forretress, Metagross, and Jirachi hard under sun support. An e. An Electric-type attack is critical for hitting Kyogre, as well as Ho-Oh, Lugia, Skarmory, orand Steel-types under rain. With Solar Beam and Dragon Claw, Latios maximizes damage output against Groudon and opposing Latios and Latias and has no need for Ice Beam.

Because this set doesn't have great longevity against Kyogre and Groudon, it should be run on offensive teams and / or with secondary Kyogre and Groudon checks such as Latias, Blissey, Lugia, or and Kyogre of your own. Blissey is one of the few Pokemon that comfortably checks this set, so Pokemon that are good at punishing Blissey when it comes in such as Snorlax, Forretress, or Dugtrio are great teammates. Mixed attackers that have the chance to pressure Blissey into being KOed by boombait Blissey into getting KOed by Self-Destruct or Explosion such as Mewtwo or Regice are also good partners. Spikes from the likes of Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Omastar, or Qwilfish help chip Pokemon such as Steel-types and Snorlax for this Latios set to bust through themLatios to later sweep through. Weather sweepers such as Omastar, Qwilfish, Exeggutor, and Kabutops are great for covering Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, and Aerodactyl, which are some of the only Pokemon capable of revenge-killing Latios.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
====

A Dragon Dance set with Hidden Power Fighting and coverage moves including Ice Beam, Thunder, Shadow Ball, and Earthquake allow Latios to salvage its workable Attack stat in order to break Blissey and Snorlax, its two most common and effective checks. The set requires maximum attack with Soul Dew along with 156 Speed EVs to function, but requires team support in the form of strong Kyogre and Groudon checks. Substitute can be used to block incoming status and scout between several potential switch-ins to maximize damage. Mono-attack Latios with Calm Mind and Dragon Claw could potentially be used, but is largely outclassed by Latias, which has better defensive stats. Toxic and Thunder Wave are status moves that can potentially disrupt a few of Latios's common responses, but are mostly less useful than other utility or offensive moves. Latios could potentially utilize Protect to scout Choice Band users, which commonly target it, but it is otherwise a mostly useless move.

Checks and Counters
====

**Blissey**: Except for Dragon Dance sets, Blissey is a common and fairly secure check to Latios, capable of comfortably tanking Latios's attacks with its massive special bulk and able to forceforcing it out with Calm Mind and Ice Beam or with Toxic and Seismic Toss. However, Latios can comfortably click Refresh or Recover before deciding how to punish the Blissey player with a switch; however, but chip damage on Latios also makes it easier to be broken byreak Latios with another Pokemon later. Blissey does, however, have the potential to run moves such as Snatch and Light Screen to prevent Latios from doing this as well.

**Snorlax**: Although its special bulk isn't as strong as Blissey's, Snorlax is more than capable of tanking Latios's strongest attacks and threatening it with a powerful Body Slams.

**Ho-Oh**: H
.

**Ho-Oh**: While it gets h
it hard by Thunder, but in sun Ho-Oh is a fairly effective Latios check that can hit itin sun that can threaten Latios with status or powerful physical attacks such as Shadow Ball or Hidden Power Flying. **Metagrosand Hidden Power Flying.

**Steel-type
s**: Metagross takes heavy damage from Thunder or Hidden Power Fire in Ssun, but otherwise is capable of switching into Dragon Claws or Ice Beams and can hit Latios with and Ice Beam and can threaten Latios with its strong physical attacks. **Forretress**: Similar to Metagross but less potent, Forretress can still force Latios out with the threat of Explosion, Hidden Power, or setting / removing hazards. **Niche Steel-types**:or removing entry hazards. More niche Steel-types like Jirachi, Steelix, Registeel, and Magneton are capable of soft- checking Latios due to their resistances. Jirachi can set up with Calm Mind against Latios or use Wish to stall and smack it with Body Slam or Shadow Ball,; Steelix is immune to Electric-type attacks and can hit back with strong physical moves,; Registeel can setup with Amnesia or threaten Latios with Hidden Power Ghost or Explosion, and Magneton can utilizeand Explosion; Magneton scares Latios out with status.

**Deoxys-D**: Although it takes some damage from Thunder orand Dragon Claw, a Latios player generally won't want to trade with it, allowing Deoxys-D to set Spikes or punish the switch with Knock Off or status.

**Regice**: Regice has substantialenough special bulk to tank a few of Latios's attacks and can hit back with strong Ice Beams or Explosion.

**Shedinja**: Shedinja is immune to boltbeam Latios, buBoltBeam Latios, but it is KOed by Hidden Power Fire and Shadow Ball Latios sets.

**Swampert**: Swampert has fair bulk, and electric-immunitydecent bulk, is immune to Thunder, and can hit Latios with a fairly strong Hidden Power Ghosts.

**Revenge Killers**: Pokemon such as Deoxys-A, Mewtwo, Dragon Claw Latios and Latias, Choice Band Lugia, Choice Band Aerodactyl, and Salac Berry Heracross have the speed and power to outspeed and KO, and / or speed tie and pick offSpeed and power to outspeed, or at very least, Speed tie, and KO Latios.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Minority, userid1]]
- Quality checked by: [[Inspirited, userid1], [SuperEpicAmpharos, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1dex, 277988], [username2, userid2]]

1/2

I made some very extensive edits here. Let me know if I deleted something important or changed something that should not be changed. Notably, I combined the Steel-types in the Checks and Counters section into one bullet point, as it was wholly too much of the section devoted to something that could be condensed into one point. Furthermore, I'd appreciate it if you spent some time with future analyses taking a quick glance at the GP standards while writing. There were numerous small mistakes that make checking more difficult that are very easy fixes on the writer's end (such as BoltBeam over boltbeam).
 

Adeleine

after committing a dangerous crime
is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Add/Fix Remove Comment
(AC)/(RC): Add/Remove Comma

[Overview]

Latios is the premier check to Groudon and Kyogre, the two most threatening and important Pokemon in the tier, making it nigh impossible for teams to pass up unless considering Latias. up—unless they run Latias instead. Latios is also powerful in its own right; a top offensive threat itself; Soul Dew effectively gives it a Calm Mind boost, and it is faster than the majority of Pokemon in the tier, making it one of the top offensive threats around. Its immunity to Ground and Spikes and resistances to Fighting- and Electric-type attacks Fighting and Electric are important defensive qualities, increasing Latios's versatility and capacity to come into play. Latios is especially potent with rain support, allowing it to drop powerful Thunders that many of its checks either take a lot of damage from or get inconvenienced by as its powerful Thunder either heavily damages many of its checks or inconveniences them with its high paralysis rate. Latios is, however, a victim of its own reputation and influence; its prevalence as a key threat forces many teams to structure themselves to explicitly deny standard Latios explicitly prepare for Latios, denying its standard sets from making substantial progress against them, especially through the use of Blissey and sun. Also, Latios's poor physical bulk means it can be revenge killed or swept through quite effectively by the likes of Deoxys-A, Salac Berry Groudon, Extreme Speed Rayquaza, and other fast physical attackers. and Extreme Speed Rayquaza can revenge kill or sweep through it quite effectively. Latios is also potentially prone to the effects of Speed ties and CM vulnerable to losing Speed ties and Calm Mind wars in some late-game scenarios.

[SET]
name: Offensive Utility
move 1: Recover
move 2: Refresh / Calm Mind
move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 4: Ice Beam / Dragon Claw
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Recover is essential for allowing Latios to check Groudon and Kyogre throughout the game. Refresh allows Latios to remove paralysis and regain its important Speed advantage, as advantage—Thunder Wave is commonly used by Groudon and Kyogre. Calm Mind can be used to help Latios break through several defensive Pokemon such as Metagross and Ho-Oh. Thunder hits Kyogre for maximum damage, and with rain support, it does well against Ho-Oh, Snorlax, and Steel-types. Thunderbolt is substantially weaker but still hits Kyogre fairly hard (I imagine? change if desired) and allows Latios to maintain BoltBeam coverage when used on a sun team. Ice Beam hits Groudon hard and covers many foes with Thunder or Thunderbolt. (I imagine?) Dragon Claw gives up some damage against Groudon, but it still hits opposing Latios, Latias, and Rayquaza while hitting Snorlax acceptably (I imagine? change if desired) without having to rely on Thunder and rain. Maximum Special Attack EVs are essential for Latios to function as a strong check to Kyogre and Groudon; they are also important for dealing decent damage to Snorlax and Steel-types. 252 Speed EVs outspeed maximum Speed Rayquaza and Speed tie opposing Modest Latios or Latias. A Timid nature outspeeds Modest Latios and Latias and offensive Lugia, (AC) alongside a few other niche threats.

This set is versatile, fitting on most team archetypes, and it requires no specific support. Because this set invites in Blissey, it is important for teams to have strong Blissey checks, such as Snorlax, Forretress, or and Metagross. This set is also a common lure The same goes (I imagine?) for Snorlax, making good switch-ins to Snorlax such as Forretress, Metagross, Skarmory, Lugia, Gengar, or and Dusclops essential. Trappers such as Magneton, Dugtrio, Umbreon, or and Wobbuffet are highly effective at disrupting common Latios responses and benefit Latios by trapping disrupting, trapping, (i imagine this still makes sense?) and potentially removing some of its checks. A cleric such as Blissey or Celebi can allow Latios to drop Refresh for Calm Mind, aiding in Latios's ability to helping Latios check Kyogre and Groudon without sacrificing its sweeping potential.

[SET]
name: Pure Offense
move 1: Calm Mind / Hidden Power Fire
move 2: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 3: Solar Beam
move 4: Dragon Claw
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Pure offense Latios trades some consistency in checking Kyogre and Groudon for increased power. Calm Mind increases Latios's wallbreaking and cleaning potential, tearing letting it tear apart any foe besides Blissey that is not faster than Latios or is Blissey. Hidden Power Fire instead lets Latios hit Shedinja and Steel-types such as Forretress, Metagross, and Jirachi hard under sun. An Electric-type attack is critical for hitting Kyogre, as well as Ho-Oh, Lugia, Skarmory, and Steel-types under rain. With Solar Beam and Dragon Claw, Latios maximizes damage output against Groudon and opposing Latios and Latias and Latias, so it has no need for Ice Beam.

Because this set doesn't have great longevity against Kyogre and Groudon, it should be run on offensive teams with secondary Kyogre and Groudon checks such as Latias, Blissey, Lugia, and Kyogre. Blissey is one of the few Pokemon that comfortably checks this set, so Pokemon encouraging teammates that are good at punishing Blissey when it comes in such as Snorlax, Forretress, or Dugtrio are great teammates. and Dugtrio. Mixed attackers that have the chance to can bait Blissey into getting KOed by Self-Destruct or Explosion such as Mewtwo or and Regice are also good partners. Spikes from the likes of Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Omastar, or Qwilfish help helps chip Steel-types and Snorlax for Latios to later sweep through. Weather sweepers such as Omastar, Qwilfish, Exeggutor, and Kabutops are great for covering Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, and Aerodactyl, which are some of the only Pokemon capable of revenge killing (removed hyphen) Latios.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
====

A Dragon Dance set with Hidden Power Fighting and coverage moves including like Ice Beam, Thunder, Shadow Ball, and Earthquake allow Latios to salvage its workable Attack stat in order salvage Latios's workable Attack stat to break through Blissey and Snorlax, its two most common and effective checks. The set requires maximum attack Attack investment with Soul Dew along with 156 Speed EVs to function but requires team support in the form of EVs, alongside support from strong Kyogre and Groudon checks. Substitute can be used to block incoming status and scout between several potential switch-ins to maximize damage. Mono-attack Latios with Calm Mind and Dragon Claw could potentially be used, but it is largely outclassed by Latias, which has better defensive stats. Toxic and Thunder Wave are status moves that can potentially can disrupt a few of Latios's common responses, but they are mostly less useful than other utility or offensive moves. Latios could potentially utilize Protect to scout Choice Band users, which commonly target it, but it is otherwise a mostly useless move.

Checks and Counters
====

**Blissey**: Except for against Dragon Dance sets, Blissey is a common and fairly secure check to Latios, capable of comfortably tanking Latios's attacks with its massive special bulk and forcing it out with Calm Mind and Ice Beam or with Toxic and + Ice Beam or Toxic + Seismic Toss. Latios can comfortably click Refresh or Recover before deciding how to punish Blissey with a switch; however, chip damage makes it easier to break through Latios with another Pokemon later. Blissey does, however, have the potential to Further, Blissey may run moves such as Snatch and Light Screen to prevent Latios from doing this as well.

**Snorlax**: Although its special bulk isn't as strong solid as Blissey's, Snorlax is more than capable of tanking Latios's strongest attacks and threatening it with a powerful Body Slam.

**Ho-Oh**: While it gets hit hard by Thunder, Ho-Oh is a fairly effective Latios check in sun that can threaten Latios with status or powerful physical attacks such as Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Flying.

**Steel-types**: Metagross takes heavy damage from Thunder or Hidden Power Fire in sun, but otherwise is capable of switching it can switch into Dragon Claw and Ice Beam and can threaten Latios with its strong physical attacks. Similar to Metagross but less potent, Forretress can still force Latios out with the threat of Explosion, Hidden Power Bug, (I assume?) or freely setting or removing entry hazards. Spikes. More niche Steel-types like Jirachi, Steelix, Registeel, and Magneton are capable of soft checking can soft check Latios due to their resistances. Jirachi can set up with Calm Mind against Latios or use Wish to stall and smack it with Body Slam or Shadow Ball; Steelix is immune to Electric-type attacks and can hit back with strong physical moves; Registeel can setup set up with Amnesia or threaten Latios with Hidden Power Ghost and Explosion; and Magneton scares Latios out with status.

**Deoxys-D**: Although it takes some damage from Thunder and Dragon Claw, a Latios player generally won't want to trade with it, allowing Deoxys-D Deoxys-D is generally not worth trading Latios for, forcing Latios out and allowing Deoxys-D (I imagine?) to set Spikes or punish the switch with Knock Off or status.

**Regice**: Regice has enough special bulk to tank a few of Latios's attacks and can hit back with Ice Beam or Explosion.

**Shedinja**: Shedinja is immune to BoltBeam most Latios, but it is KOed by Hidden Power Fire and Shadow Ball sets.

**Swampert**: Swampert has decent bulk, is immune to Thunder, and can hit Latios with a fairly strong Hidden Power Ghost.

**Revenge Killers**: Pokemon such as Deoxys-A, Mewtwo, Dragon Claw Latios and Latias, Choice Band Lugia, Choice Band Aerodactyl, and Salac Berry Heracross have the Speed and power to outspeed, or at very least (RC) Speed tie, and KO Latios.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Minority, userid1]]
- Quality checked by: [[Inspirited, userid1], [SuperEpicAmpharos, userid2]] (fill writer/qc user ids)
- Grammar checked by: [[dex, 277988], [Finland, 517429]]
finland-GP.gif
2/2
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top