Hi, all. Trash and I figured this thread could still be helpful as a resource and as something to discuss, so we went ahead and updated it. Since we came up with these changes by ourselves, please feel free to post on any issues you have with the current rendition of the list. Four months in between means a lot of changes, so here it goes:
Bulk Up Timburr: A+ -> S
Depending on the match-up, Timburr can act as either the best set-up sweeper in the game, or a strong check to a multitude of threats. Either way, it brings to the table a lot of utility and offensive presence.
Focus Sash Abra: A -> A+
It’s super easy to splash onto offensive teams and is really effective at its job as a safety net, although doesn’t do much else against teams with a bit of bulk.
RestTalk Chinchou: A -> B+
It’s not bulky enough to avoid a lot of 3HKOs, is really weak, and gets ruined by trappers. With that being said, a check to a few key mons that lasts forever is still pretty sweet.
Fast Berry Juice Chinchou: A -> A-
It just gets worn down too quickly.
Choice Scarf Magnemite: A -> A+
Fast enough to outspeed the unboosted metagame, deals a truckload of damage, maintains momentum, and even gets some nice opportunities to switch in thanks to its typing. Other than being easily taken advantage of once it’s locked in, Magnemite is pretty much the whole package.
Life Orb Diglett: A -> A+
I guess this is just a case of more people realizing how good it is.
Flailtchling: -> rip
Illegal set
SunnyBeam Ponyta: A- -> B
Chinchou isn’t as important as it used to be, this set’s surprise value has been diminished over time, and Will-o-Wisp is really helpful against a ton of things, so standard Ponyta is usually the outright better choice. Also, it doesn’t have the moveslot for Flame Charge so Diglett beats it up :(
Berry Juice Snubbull: A- -> A
I just feel like it’s pretty clear at this point that Berry Juice Snubbull does more than Eviolite Snubbull in most cases. It’s carved out its own niche that I think is around as good as Spritzee’s by now.
Bulky Shell Smash Tirtouga: A- -> B+
Obviously Tirtouga has its own nice advantages, but Omanyte tends to be easier to support a sweep with for most teams.
Bulky Vullaby: A- -> B+
It’s still a good set, but sometimes it has trouble getting onto a team – offensive teams would rather Archen, which doesn’t drop momentum as much, and defensive teams often can’t pass up bulky Staryu. Plus, its attacks aren’t that strong without investment.
Fast Vullaby: B -> A
Invested Attack + strong STAB moves = big scary damage for a lot of teams. On top of that, Vullaby can maintain momentum thanks to U-turn, and is still pretty hard to knock out.
Fast Eviolite Archen: A- -> B-
It honestly just doesn’t really do enough in the average match to be worth using over more common variants unless you need exactly what it offers.
Berry Juice Archen: Offensive Berry Juice Archen, Support Archen, both A+ -> A
The sets were split up because they're pretty different in what they do. I don't think the split-up sets are really on the same level as the A+ sets.
Pivot Pancham: A- -> B+
Regenerator > Parting Shot. Just use Mienfoo
Mixed Croagunk: A- -> B+
Trappers
Nasty Plot Croagunk: A- -> B+
Trappers
Physical Croagunk: A- -> B+
Trappers, mostly Diglett
Sweeper Snivy: B+ -> A
Snivy is really strong. It’s probably the best offensive Grass-type for the average team, is really hard to switch into until you figure out its Hidden Power, and can support itself. However, it’s hard to outright sweep because its speed tier isn’t great for an offensive Pokemon.
Eviolite Corphish: B -> A-
For a Pokemon that actually has decent bulk, Corphish is really tough to switch into. Its damage and access to Knock Off help it support other sweepers on the team, and it can even act as the sweeper itself effectively.
Life Orb Corphish: B -> B+
A small handful of Pokemon can switch into Life Orb Corphish, and even those are usually only able to only do so once. It differentiates itself from comparably powerful wall-breakers with its obscenely powerful Aqua Jet.
Choice Scarf Pancham: B+ -> C+
See Boo’s post
Dragon Dance Scraggy: -> Eviolite Scraggy
Just because Life Orb Scraggy also usually runs Dragon Dance
Calm Mind Drifloon: B- -> B
The effectiveness of the other sets makes this set’s surprise value even better.
Mixed / Physical Drifloon: -> Offensive Drifloon, B- -> A-
I combined the two sets because they’re so similar. Mostly this is a case of people other than qu just realizing it was good in the past few months than the metagame actually making it better. It’s still got issues with a lack of power for an offensive Pokemon, but its ridiculously disruptive movepool make it really good to support things that it shares checks with, and it’s not a horrid sweeper late enough in the game.
Recycle Drifloon: -> B
It’s probably not going to sweep on its own considering that it’s a mono-attacker, but being able to totally ruin standard bird checks while still posing as a nuisance overall has its perks.
Offensive Support Staryu: B- -> C+
For the record, this set refers to Eviolite / Berry Juice Staryu with an offensive spread, which is mostly outclassed by standard bulky Eviolite or Life Orb sets.
Life Orb Torchic: C -> B
Dcae used it to get reqs and it’s actually pretty scary. Fire Blast outdamages all of Carvanha’s attacks except for Hydro Pump, and Hidden Power Grass is great to lure in unsuspecting Chinchou. The big draw here is after wreaking a bit of havoc, Torchic can still support the rest of the team by passing over its boosts.
Berry Juice Carvanha: C+ -> C
It’s still not unviable because lots of Water spam checks need their Eviolites, but eh
Baton Pass Togepi: C- -> C+
Other than its niche on the best team build in the game, Quickpass Togepi is actually pretty devastating, and not especially hard to pull off if you can get Magnemite / Pawniard.
Eviolite Honedge: -> Pursuit Honedge, Swords Dance Honedge, C- -> C
Other people seem to like Honedge and I guess the sets are pretty different
Automize Honedge: -> C-
See above
Berry Juice Munchlax: -> Berry Juice Tank Munchlax
Just to differentiate from Curse Munchlax
Eviolite Munchlax: -> Eviolite Wall Munchlax
See above
Curse Munchlax: -> B
It’s actually a pretty solid sweeper for teams that don’t mind having like 0 momentum ie defensive teams. There’s some things you’ll have to get rid of, obviously, but the premise is simple and effective.
Subdisable Gastly: B -> B-
I think it was only in B because of hype at the time. Its advantage in beating Stunky isn’t really worth using it over Life Orb Gastly.
Choice Band Mienfoo B -> B-
Again, probably just hype
Life Orb skrelp B- -> C+
A frail Pokemon that clocks in at 9 Speed doesn’t seem ideal. A faster wall-breaker would probably be better in just about every instance; even with webs, Skrelp still ties with 20 Speed Pokemon.
Berry Juice Elekid: C+ -> C
RIP ADV LC
Life Orb Froakie -> C
Froakie can actually be really annoying to switch into unless you have a dedicated Normal-type special wall, and it’s not super slow. Of course, its frailty, lack of OHKO power against most Pokemon that hold Eviolite, and not great Speed tier hold it back.
Choice Scarf Vullaby: C+ -> C
It just doesn’t seem that good when one of the main draws to offensive Vullaby is that it can actually stick around
Choice Scarf stunky: C- -> rip
It’s not worth using over standard Eviolite or Berry Juice Stunky.
Support Venipede -> C
I think we just forgot this the first time around
Eviolite Natu: -> C-
See above
Choice Scarf Rufflet: -> C-
Rufflet’s viable now I guess
Bulk Up Rufflet: -> C-
See above
Life Orb Rufflet: -> C-
See above
Rock Polish Pawniard: -> B+
Missing out on Sucker Punch sucks, and you get walled by common stuff if you run it anyway. Of course, it's still Pawniard we're talking about, with its great utility and super great offensive presence, and being able to set up as a wincon in a completely different way is pretty nice.
Eviolite Pawniard: -> Eviolite Support Pawniard, Eviolite Swords Dance Pawniard
They're pretty similar for the most part, but one functions as a sweeper and the other just supports the team with nuclear powered Knock Offs, plus a bit of extra utility with Stealth Rock or Brick Break. It also helps to emphasize that Pawniard isn't a one-trick pony.
Lure Timburr -> A
Yup, we definitely just forgot this the first time around.
I’m not splitting S up because I don’t feel that any one of Mienfoo’s or Pawniard’s individual sets is all that much above Bulk Up Timburr/Choice Scarf Magnemite, maybe Download Porygon/Life Orb Diglett. Their S rank placements would still be justified because they’re much more versatile than Timburr or Magnemite.
