LC Type Analysis Thread

[Electrolyte]

approved by macle

LC Type Analysis Thread​

One of the most unique parts of the game of Pokemon is the idea of types- and ever since Generation I, types have played a huge part in both in-game and competitive battling. In Gen VI, we were blessed with a new type- Fairy-type- that extended the total amount of types in Pokemon to 18. However, not every single type is as relevant as every other type in the Little Cup competitive scene. In this thread, let's discuss the effects and roles of different common types and how the alter teambuilding and playstyle based on distribution.

I'll loosely cover some common and powerful types / their Pokemon and then leave the rest for discussion.

However, unlike individual Pokemon, it is difficult to compare types because we don't exactly have specific numbers and movepools to work with. Because of this, I'm going to outline a few characteristics of types that helps us compare them.
~Offensive / Defensive advantages- basically, resistances, immunities, weaknesses, what it hits super effensively, and what resists / is immune to it.
~Moves- what kind of OFFENSIVE moves are common that are of this type? (the reason why I don't include support moves is because they deal less direct damage and are less dependent on type advantages.)
~Distribution- what kind of Pokemon are this type, what can they do, and how popular are they?

In those three ways, types affects the LC metagame, so we should examine them as such.


BETTER TYPES


FLYING-TYPE

Arguably one of the best types right now both typewise and distribution wise, there are a boatload of viable and powerful Flying-types littering the Little Cup tier right now, and it is at least of my own opinion that by itself, as a typing, Flying-type is the best type in Little Cup right now.

~In terms of type advantages, Flying has a few key traits that make it awesome. For one, it's immune to Ground and resists Fighting, two major physical attack types. Offensively, Flying is also resisted only by Steel, Rock and Electric, the latter two of which being relatively uncommon types.

~In terms of moves, Flying-types get quite a lot. Brave Bird immediately comes into mind as a massively powerful 120 BP attack with relatively little consequence, making it a great move for any physical flying type. Acrobatics is also a great flying-type move, especially in a tier filled with knock off. Specially, Flying-types lack a bit- but they still do have Hurricane, which is immensely powerful and can also confuse, as well as Air Slash, which is weaker but can flinch. Flying-types have all the offensive firepower they need.

~In terms of Pokemon, Flying-types probably make up the largest portion of top tier threats. Yanma, Gligar, and Murkrow are three powerhouses that have and will always be in the top 10 in terms of usage, and two of them have been so powerful that they've been banned in the past. All three have more than above average stats, great movepools, and exhibit a lot of offensive pressure on the field. Other common Flying-types, such as Fletchling and Vullaby are also great because of their individual niches.


FIGHTING-TYPE

Fighting-types are relatively popular in all tiers because of exactly what their name says they do- fight. Most Fighting-types have high attack stats and decent or above average speed stats, making them optimal attackers.

~In terms of type advantages, Fighting-type doesn't resist anything common, except perhaps Dark-type attacks. They are also not immune to anything, and are weak to the very common and powerful Flying-type and Psychic-type, two types that have strong attackers and high base power attacks on their side. However, offensively, they are no slouch- hitting 5 whole types super effectively, making them great attackers. Their ability to hit Steel-types, a type that hard walls many other types, makes them a staple on any team that wants to exert offensive firepower. Although Fighting-types may not be the best in the meta, they do heavily impact the meta advantage wise, pretty much fueling the usage of Flying-types to counter them. Unfortunately, the introduction of Fairy-types have somewhat diminished the offensive power that Fighting-types once had.

~In terms of moves, Fighting-types get quite a lot as well. Drain Punch is an excellent move with decent base power and the ability to heal its user, making Fighting-types even harder to take down one they start sweeping. High Jump Kick is another absurdly powerful move with very little consequence, and can easily cut through unprepared teams. To be honest, those two moves are all Fighting-types need, but they do have other options- such as Mach Punch (commonly seen on Timburr) and Vacuum Wave (commonly seen on Croagunk)

~In terms of distribution, there are plenty of Fighting-types in Little Cup that are worth noting. Meditite is a very popular Fighting-type that has the highest attack stat in the tier, capable of wallbreaking with ease. Mienfoo is quite common as well, as it once again runs its famous defensive pivoting set that's even better now that its Knock Off can KO the Ghost-types it was once afraid of. Timburr / Croagunk are two bulky Fighting-types that are still moderately powerful because of their priority options. Scraggy, which was once extremely popular, is no longer popular because of Fairy-types, but it still does retain some viability.


STEEL-TYPE

Known as the walls of Pokemon, Steel-types have a slew of resistances and above average defenses that make them great walls. The introduction of Fairy-types have also given Steel-types a new toy to munch on, but Gen VI also nerfed the list of attacks Steel resist- taking away Dark and Ghost, two important types that Steel used to be able to wall but no longer is. Still, with a whopping 10 (11 last generation) resistances, it's hard to dent Steel-types, making them quite common in the metagame.

~In terms of type advantage, this is probably what has fueled Steel-types the most as well as contributed to the effects of Steel-types on the tier. With a resistance to 10 types and an immunity to Poison, they're not very easy to take down. In fact, as you may have noticed by now, in terms of type advantage, much of the tier's type wars are based around Steel-types- Fighting-types beat Steel-types and are therefore powerful, and Flying-types beat Fighting-types, making them powerful as well. LC (and a lot of other metas) basically revolved around Steel-type resistances and weaknesses.

~In terms of moves, Steel-types are at a severe disadvantage, but that's more than ok, because most of them rely on their other type to deal damage. That doesn't mean that they lack offensively, however; Iron Head and Flash Cannon are two very good Steel-types attacks prominent in Little Cup that can cause some serious damage, especially with the new Fairy-type introduced. Steel-type attacks lack base power, but are reliable, and often carry added effects, such as Iron Head's flinch chance or Flash Cannon's -SpDef chance.

~In terms of distribution, Steel-types are fairly common. Pawniard and Magnemite are two powerful Steel-types in Little Cup, and have received a lot of praise from higher ladder players as the "anti meta mons" of the tier. Magnemite, with Sturdy, can use Berry Juice to become a 3-lived check that can win in almost any matchup. With Flash Cannon, it is one of the best Fairy counters in the tier, easily OHKOing Swirlix and KOing Spritzee. Pawniard goes along the same lines- with Knock Off, Sucker Punch priority, and Iron Head, it is very difficult to stop. Other Steel-types include Teshiido (known to everyone but prem as Ferroseed) and Honedge, two relatively bulkier Steel-types of the tier.



BAD TYPES

DRAGON-TYPE

The stars of the upper tiers, in Little Cup, Dragon-types are decidedly below average in terms of distribution, despite the fact that their type advantages and moves are pretty good. Most Little Cup legal Dragon-types have not reached puberty yet- ie, they haven't matured into the powerful Dragon-types that make up the upper tiers. Little Cup Dragon-types have poor stats and relatively shallow movepools that make them undesirable in the LC metagame. The most prominent Dragon-type is probably Tyrunt, whose stats aren't that bad and can run a pretty solid Dragon Dance set. Axew, who can sport a somewhat viable Dragon Dance set, and Goomy, whose ability and defenses grant it at least some defensive viability against one of the deadliest sweepers in the tier, Tangela, are also decent choices, but should never be the first thing people put on their teams.


POISON-TYPE

GameFreak tried drastically to give Poison-types a niche when it made them hit Fairy-types super effectively, but they are still very below average in terms of their competitive ability in LittleCup. Their most notable type advantage is a resistance to Fighting-type, but there are loads of other Fighting-type resisting types (Flying-type) that have a lot more other things going for them. In terms of moves, Poison-types also lack. Sludge Bomb / Sludge Wave / Poison Jab are really the only reliable Poison-type attacks out there, and while they are quite powerful with great added effects, few viable Pokemon get them, and either way they don't hit anything significant super effectively. In terms of distribution in LC, they are a bit better off than Dragon-types, but not notably so. Tentacool, Grimer, Croagunk, Koffing, and Foongus are all semi-common, but not nearly as common as many other viable Pokemon in the tier. Mostly, Poison-types in LittleCup solely rely on their Poison-typing to wall Fighting-types and use their other typing for everything else. Something that is becoming more common however is running Sludge Bomb or other Poison-type attacks on walls to counter Fairy-types and Tangela, but that strategy has yet to popularize itself just yet.





There were many types that I intentionally did not cover so that they could be discussed in this thread. Which types do you guys think are great / bad in LittleCup, and why? What advantage / distribution / moves do said types have? What are their effects on teambuilding and the LC metagame? How do the typing of moves and Pokemon affect your teambuilding? Feel free to discuss!

 

[Kingler]

Poison needs skrelp...
Goomy sucks...
Poison isnt that bad, foongus skrelp tenta all are legit
Also wheres fairy lol, cm swirlix and spritzee are basically THE meta (not really but you get what i mean)
Also atm ferroseed is such a fucking boss and its so easy to set up spikes for it...so a bigger mention would be nice.

 

[tcr]

Probably the best type right now is Dark. Please add it. Things like Pawniard, Murkrow, Houndour, etc absolutely wreck everything.

 

[kingmidas]

Flying types in sheer versatility imo. But TCR is so right dark has that stab knock off and so much power and a great stab.

 

[Liquidocelot]

One type that i have found works quite well in LC is the

Dark Type
The dark type has many viable pokemon in lc besides being weak to fighting type attacks. Such as pawniward,murkrow and scraggy some pokemon that have been taled about and are extremely viable

 

[Ray Jay]

Poison pokemon are less used I agree, but they definitely still have some great pokemon and sludge bomb / other poison moves are actually great neutral coverage on a lot of things that get it right now (tangelo and goomy both can use it for example, like you noted). I don't necessarily think the fact that koffing is uncommon takes away from the fact that it walls a totally unique portion of the tier and is actually great on many more defensive teams.

People have mentioned dark type and broken stab knock off so I won't harp on that.

Fairy is also one of the best rulings right now, with swirlix being able to set up on a large portion of the metagame and spritzee walling many key threats ad infinitum. Even Snubbull has it's niche with Heal Bell + intimidate or it's more offensive sets. Most importantly, fairy types force the opponent to run the more obscure types of poison and steel, which has a multitude of pokemon that are easily trapped or set up on by other threats.

Perhaps the most underrated typing defensively right now is Normal-type. We've got porygon, who switched into missy and gligar and can now use download to pack quite a punch all the while, munchlax, who is simply a boss, and lickitung who is similarly boss-like.

 

[chimp]

I think fairy could be considered for one of the better types, being able to resist fighting and dark is amazing.

 

[Graycross]

Poison is pretty sweet right now, and I would actually say that Ground is in a worse position, mostly due to Flying and Grass types, but also because the majority of the top threats atm destroy them (Gligar, Tangela, Carv, Missy, Foongus, etc.).

 

[askaninjask]

Flying has always been a great type in LC, and it's been so since DPP, at least. Immunities are the name of the game, and Ground moves are hella common. Only Rock, Steel, and Electric resist Flying, and it's difficult to think of any examples of pokemon of these types who are not setup fodder for some of the strongest threats in the meta (Chinchou comes to mind as an exception).

Add to this that Flying gets some of the best moves in the metagame - Air Slash has an awesome flinch chance, Acrobatics is crazy good, and Roost is terrific recovery. Yeah, Flying is really really good.

 

[Darkamber8828]

I'm pissed. Mono-attacking Dratini JUST got Marvel Scale and then Fairies were released, it's bullshit.

Anyway, the best Dragon in Little Cup is without a doubt Tyrunt. It's both bulky and strong, with powerful coverage moves in Strong Jaw, and it hits pretty much everything with STAB Dragon Claw pretty hard. It also gets Stealth Rock which is cool.

Also Trubbish is the best defensive poison-type in the tier because of RecycleJuice and (T)Spikes, Koffing is for the weak. :>

 

[macle]

Fairy is probably the best type. Immune to dragon and resists fighting, bug, and dark types. Added that its typing is only resistant against fire and steel types which are few in lc.

Poison isn't a bad typing, but the majority of mons that get it are bad.

 

[leingodf8]

I dunno if I'd call steel all THAT great of a type. While pawnard, ferroseed, honedge and ɔ(⊙)c are all good to great, they are also the only good steel types. They may have gained an advantage over the new fairy type (which is also a pretty damn exclusive club) but the ghost and dark type loss is such a beating for most of them. Plus, steel stab is rather unexciting as far as offensives options go, and there are fighting types EVERYWHERE. While its certainly still a strong type to have access to, I definitly would put it below dark, and maybe even water.

Speaking of water, thats gotta be up there right? I mean we all already know its a useful type to have, and while it may not have many of the very best threats in the tier, it probably has the largest number of middle to high tier pokes. Tentacool, (dare I say goldeen), slowpoke, staryu, chinchou, carvahna, mantyke, tirtouga, and frillish just to name a few.

Hmmm lets see actually...
Bug: Good but not great both offensivly and defensivly, and u-turn is just damn good. Hamprered by a pretty poor distribution. Yanma, dwebble, larvesta.
Dark: Powerful Offensivly and decent defensivly. Knock off is possibly the best move in LC atm. Great distribution too. Pawnard, Carvahna, Murkrow, Scraggy to name a few
Electric: Very good offensivly and even very solid defensivly. Volt swtich is almost as good as U-turn. Quite a poor distribution too I'm afraid. Magnemite and Chinchou really
Fairy: Very powerful defensive typing and a great offensive one too. A rather sparse ammount of moves for all its guys to utilize though, and a very poor distribution. Swirlix, Snubbull and sprtizee, and thats it.
Fire: Very solid offensive typing and a suprisingly decent defensive typing too in lc. Burning shits too good in the physically biased meta. Distribution is decent. Growlithe, ponyta, larvesta, torchic.
Ghost: A very powerful type, with few resists and weaknesses. Kinda restricted to shadowball and shadow sneak though, and its distribution is pretty bad. Missy and Honedge (and drifloon if we ever get flying gem back T^T)
Grass: Solid offensivly and very all around defensivly with some key resists and some major weaknesses. Gigadrain is also damn good, as are powder moves. Very good distribution too, Tangela, snover, cottonee, ferroseed, foongus when if tangela gets banned.
Ground: Rather solid offensivly and pretty mediocre defensivly. EQ is still probably the most solid move Game freak has ever created. Average distribution. Gligar, hippopotas, phanphy.
Ice: You all know this one, great offensivly, terribad defensivly. Everything gets ice beam, and it has some pretty damn good moves like ice shard, icicle spear, freeze dry.... too bad nothing can really use them effectivly. With sneasel gone there's almost nothing of note in ice... snover, amaura... uhh ya.
Normal: The most basic of types, average both offensivly and defensivly. A billion different useful moves, like body slam, return, extreme speed etc. Despite a plethora of avaliable pokemon the distribution is only average. Munchlax, porygon, bunnelby.
Psychic: A rather mediocre to bad typing, both offensivly and defensivly. Does not really mesh well with a lot of the other types, as almost nothing ever runs psychic for coverage. Mediocre distribution too... Abra, slowpoke, meditite (why not wynaut ^w^)
Rock: Quite good if not great offensivly, but rather hampered defensivly. Why do their moves have such terrible accuracy too, but I guess it does have the ever terrifying SR to its name. Pretty decent distribution. Dwebble, tirtougga... actually most of the fossils are at least decent.

 

[Kavatika]

Ma boi Archen needs to be on this list. It's a solid check to a lot of top threats atm, such as Yanma, Bunnelby, and Gligar, and has that sexy attack stat (hits 17 uninvested!).

 

[FireMage]

Add the fact that whilst Spikes / Toxic spikes (whilst uncommon)and the speed drop from Sticky Web - will not affect Flying types is a part of what makes them a great type.

I'm surprised that Water isn't on the list. Water types have incredible diversity with the tier and there is almost always a water type for the job you need. Combine that with the coverage most water types get without having to resort to hidden power - you have an excellent type. Combine that with resistances to water, ice, fire and steel (all common coverage move types).

I'll type more when I get back - but here are my initial thoughts on why Water types are one of the better types in LC.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

One cool thing about Flying-types is that a former crippling weakness to them, Stealth Rock, is now a bit shaky due to most Flying-types carrying the buffed Defog. Plus, Pokemon like Yanma can use Grass type moves to counter Rock types. Heat Wave is also good for dealing with Steels. But I afraid HP-Ground is the only way for them to hit Electric types. (It could also be worth mentioning that they can preform well with Ground-types, due to them being super-effective towards all types Flying is resisted by. Gligar is part-ground, but it needs to watch for Ice moves that are carried by Water or Ice types. But it could pair well with Fire-types, who can roast pretty much all of them that aren't neutral to their attacks.)

 

[Electrolyte]

Guys, the OP wasn't a cut and dry list of things defining the meta specifically- it was merely an example of how to assess and compare types. On that note, I don't find it necessary for me to put up everything discussed in this thread in the OP, but I mean I guess we can compile a list after some solid discussion covering all of the types in the meta.


Personally, I've always been under the impression that while Poison-types aren't bad, they don'g have too much going for the either, making them less preferable to other types that have distinct advantages in the Little Cup metagame. I feel that Poison's biggest downfall are its type advantages; all it hits super effectively is Grass (and we have one common Grass-type weak to Poison, yay) and Fairy (sure I guess, but I wouldn't run a poison type just to counter fairies; that's a job better done by Steel-types) Offensively, Poison isn't difficult to wall, either- 4 fairly common types resist it and one is immune. Defensively, literally the only thing Poison-types have and really the only advantage they have in general is a resist to Fighting, a dying type.

macle also did bring up the true fact that there is a lack of powerful poison types in the tier, really because of their inability to cause significant damage to teams with their STABs. The sole niche of Poison-type by itself is to wall Fighting-types while also beating Grass-types and Fairies, but Flying-type does that quite well, too, and a lot more offensively.


IDK while it may be that Poison-types don't have many weaknesses, I don't see them having many advantages either.

 

[LittleCupFailure]

How about Water-types? There are oodles of them with many different roles on teams. Here are some examples.

These Pokemon represent LC's most viable Water-types. Here you have hazard setters, spinners, spinblockers, clerics, walls, tanks, sweepers, and late-game cleaners. All of them are rather exceptional if you have the right kind of team. Additionally, there's a wide variety of them type-wise, meaning that they can cover a teammate's weaknesses rather well if their typing is suited to the task. Pure water-types have few weaknesses, and weaknesses to Grass and Electric-types are fairly easy to cover in this metagame. I always use water types, and I recommend you do the same.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

I don't think Poison typing should be considered bad. It grants resistances to Grass, Bug, Fighting, and Fairy, while only being weak to Psychic and Ground, and many Poison types have Levitate to nullify the Ground weakness (Stunky's secondary Dark typing also makes its would-be Psychic weakness an immunity instead). Also, being immune to Poison status, while it's not the most effective form of status in the tier, is pretty awesome.

Croagunk and Foongus are incredible, and now that Tangela is gone, all the Chlorophyll sweepers people use now are part Poison-type, so calling the type bad but with exceptions is certainly not accurate in the current metagame.

If any type is bad, it's Psychic. Apart from Meditite and Slowpoke, Psychic-types are generally not good choices. The only other thing that's less of a metagame staple and still usable as a Psychic-type is Abra. Bronzor is okay but it's a defensive, stally mon, and Knock Off is now very common and also super effective against it, making it easy to ruin.

 

[The Avalanches]

Psychic and Ghost have suffered the most this generation, all because of the rise of Pawniard and Knock Off. Dark and Steel are the most improved, the Steel nerf benefiting Dark and Steel's ability to check most Fairies.

 

[Chieliee]

the yanma sprite thingy should be removed n_n

and add Dark to good types imo, with things like Murkrow, Pawniard, Scraggy, Vullaby all being very viable in the tier

 

[Darkamber8828]

Gothita and Wynaut are still good this gen, knock off weaknesses aren't that big of a deal when you can come in on things that can't touch you, and trap them. Or just use Scarf Gothita. Psychic typing got nerfed pretty hard, but being able to wall Meditite is really cool.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Gothita and Wynaut are still good this gen, knock off weaknesses aren't that big of a deal when you can come in on things that can't touch you, and trap them. Or just use Scarf Gothita. Psychic typing got nerfed pretty hard, but being able to wall Meditite is really cool.

Scarf Gothita with HP Ice is good for trapping and killing Gligar but not much else; its viability took a hard hit after it was discovered that Shadow Tag is illegal with Trick. Wynaut can be used to assure a kill against something if played intelligently, but the most it can ever accomplish is getting one kill, and in most cases it either has to die itself in the process or find itself at a health range where anything can come in after it gets a kill and pick it off.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Gothita can beat Gligar, Meditite, Mienfoo, Foongus, Timburr, Croagunk lacking Sucker Punch (most don't have it). Fighting types, Gligar, and Regenerator cores are really good in this metagame and trapping and killing them is still really cool, even without Trick.

Wynaut doesn't really need to be played intelligently? Encore something, take a possible hit with Berry Juice, then Countercoat it or get a guaranteed turn of setup. The hard part is getting two kills with it by predicting a prediction of Encore and using Countercoat instead, but it's kind of a waste when Encore is guaranteed to screw something over.

 

[macle]

psychic isn't good, wynaut and goth both of great abilities that let them overcome its terrible typing to be decent.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Another typing that's generally always been bad is Ice. Outside of Snover and a carefully used Amaura, Ice-types in LC are pretty horrible. It's a typing that really only stacks up weaknesses; the only resistance Ice even has is Ice itself. Hail was never even a prominent playstyle in Little Cup despite all the Snow Cloak and Ice Body carriers that can benefit from this type of weather. Last generation there was anti-Sand, which honestly just consisted of bringing Snover to keep Sand Rush Drilbur from tearing you to pieces. Choice Scarf Snover can somewhat check the Chlorophyll sweepers that operate under Sun this generation, by altering their preferred weather and threatening them with a powerful STAB Blizzard. It doesn't help that they all have STAB Sludge Bomb with which to easily knock Snover out, though, not to mention HP Fire/Weather Ball.

Don't get this confused—Ice-type offense is amazing. Tons of Water-types and Fighting-types make use of Ice Beam and Ice Punch, respectively, to have good coverage against many types of enemies they may encounter in Little Cup, most notably Gligar. However, while Ice-type offense is amazing, having Ice-type STAB is ultimately not worth the weaknesses that accompany the Ice typing required to take advantage of this. Outside of Snover and Amaura in Little Cup, the only STAB Ice-type offense that is even remotely viable probably belongs to Protean Froakie, a Pokemon that can reap the STAB benefit of using Ice Beam without being weak to Stealth Rock.