Yeah I kinda have the same problem one of the tours is when I'm making/eating my dinner and the other one is when I'm sleeping :( but I'm not sure if there will be enough people to make a ladder (because if in regular LC it takes some time to find a game I can't imagine for LC UU). Anyway I would love it but it seems unlikely to happen. Another option would be having a couple more roomtours per day but I guess if they are doing only 2 tours / day there must be a reson for that.
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Metagame LC UU Introduction and Resource Thread
- Thread starter taranteeeno
- Start date
Simbo
Own a doghouse?
Just my impressions on two mons I think may need to be looked at
Rufflet
I think this mon is too good for lc uu, incredible threat. BU aerial ace superpower roost is a dangerous setup mon which nothing barring archen can reasonably and semi-safely switch into. Scarf preys on teams relying on scarf snover/amaura or non-scarf voltorb as checks to BU rufflet. With hail being overprepped for and therefore not used much, rufflet benefits even more. The main reason why I think it's busted tho is because of bp, lc uu has at least two and potentially more pretty solid bp passers in venonat and buizel, the former has almost 100 percent acc sleep to give itself free turns, and the latter is a decent offensive threat with decent coverage and a very good speed tier, allowing it to setup on forced switches. Ruff with speed is busted in normal lc where there are much better defensive and offensive mons to deal with it, it's similarly pretty broke here too imo.
Omanyte
Omanyte is also a very dangerous mon with great spa, decent speed and SS. I think omanyte is easier to check and prep for since it's far more predictable in terms of sets it can viably run. However, I think omanyte does put a large and potentially unhealthy amount of teambuilding restriction when trying to check it. Defensive checks have to be kept healthy throughout the game, and most omanyte teams would have methods of dealing with/pressuring bulky waters capable of eating a hit at +2. Revenging is similarly difficult, with voltorb being the main way of revenging after smash, or lo mach from magby after a decent amount of chip. However, when building, I feel almost forced to run one of those two, or to build a team where most if not all of my mons dissuade oma from smashing.
Rufflet
I think this mon is too good for lc uu, incredible threat. BU aerial ace superpower roost is a dangerous setup mon which nothing barring archen can reasonably and semi-safely switch into. Scarf preys on teams relying on scarf snover/amaura or non-scarf voltorb as checks to BU rufflet. With hail being overprepped for and therefore not used much, rufflet benefits even more. The main reason why I think it's busted tho is because of bp, lc uu has at least two and potentially more pretty solid bp passers in venonat and buizel, the former has almost 100 percent acc sleep to give itself free turns, and the latter is a decent offensive threat with decent coverage and a very good speed tier, allowing it to setup on forced switches. Ruff with speed is busted in normal lc where there are much better defensive and offensive mons to deal with it, it's similarly pretty broke here too imo.
Omanyte
Omanyte is also a very dangerous mon with great spa, decent speed and SS. I think omanyte is easier to check and prep for since it's far more predictable in terms of sets it can viably run. However, I think omanyte does put a large and potentially unhealthy amount of teambuilding restriction when trying to check it. Defensive checks have to be kept healthy throughout the game, and most omanyte teams would have methods of dealing with/pressuring bulky waters capable of eating a hit at +2. Revenging is similarly difficult, with voltorb being the main way of revenging after smash, or lo mach from magby after a decent amount of chip. However, when building, I feel almost forced to run one of those two, or to build a team where most if not all of my mons dissuade oma from smashing.
Just wanted to make an announcement:
We will not be tier shifting every month, we will be tier shifting every 3 months just like all the others tiers. We were previously limited because LC doesn't have weighted usage stats but from now on I will weigh them myself. This means there will not be any tier shift in February.
We will not be tier shifting every month, we will be tier shifting every 3 months just like all the others tiers. We were previously limited because LC doesn't have weighted usage stats but from now on I will weigh them myself. This means there will not be any tier shift in February.
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Hello LC UUers!
With the recent Baton Pass banning in LC OU and amazing new room tour activity, the LC UU council would like to announce a council suspect to address the following issues:
Baton Pass
Rufflet
Omanyte
Sticky Web
Some of you may wonder why this is a council suspect. We have neither a ladder nor the manpower to support a standard suspect vote. However, you can influence the council vote by posting convincing arguments as to whether you believe any of the above should be banned or not.
You can also influence the vote by joining the two suspect tours that will be held. The winner or highest placing non-council member of each tour will be allowed to vote on the three matters above. The suspect tours will be held on the following days:
The suspect ends on February 16, 2019 at 11:59pm EST (GMT-5) and voting will take place on February 17.
With the recent Baton Pass banning in LC OU and amazing new room tour activity, the LC UU council would like to announce a council suspect to address the following issues:
Baton Pass allows incredible stat boosts to be passed to other mons generally perceived to be too slow or frail to break through an opposing team. In addition, it allows already strong threats to be even more dominating. LC UU is a metagame that has few true answers to Baton Pass strategies as it lacks both mons with great enough bulk to check receivers and mons with utility moves and abilities to deal with it.
Rufflet is a mon that easily breaks through the LC UU metagame. Between Hustle-boosted STAB, the ability to Bulk Up on slower defensive mons, wiedling a 100% accurate Z-move, or even acting as a scarf pivot and revenge killer, Rufflet is a mon to be feared in LC UU. It has the coverage and sheer strength to break through all of its checks and Roost gives it excellent longevity. It is also arguably the best Baton Pass recipient as an Agility and/or Cosmic Power boost can help it tear apart most teams.
Omanyte is the premier Shell Smash user in LC UU. Being able to outspeed most of the metagame after a boost, Omanyte's STAB and coverage is nearly unchecked at +2 barring a Scarf Voltorb. With hazard support or a Z-crystal, even the best Specially Defensive walls like Munchlax cannot withstand Omanyte's power. It also doesn't help that one of the few Shell Smash checks in Cottonee has risen to LC OU.
LC UU has every bit the offensive inclination of LC OU; however, it has less reliable Defoggers, fewer web-immune threats, and no Pawniard. It does have some counterplay, such as Fomantis and Clear Body Tentacool, but it is easy to see how a strategy that is relatively stronger than the already omnipresent LC OU webs, at least on paper, may prove to be overbearing.
Some of you may wonder why this is a council suspect. We have neither a ladder nor the manpower to support a standard suspect vote. However, you can influence the council vote by posting convincing arguments as to whether you believe any of the above should be banned or not.
You can also influence the vote by joining the two suspect tours that will be held. The winner or highest placing non-council member of each tour will be allowed to vote on the three matters above. The suspect tours will be held on the following days:
- February 10th, 2019 at 4pm EST (GMT-5)
- February 16th, 2019 at 3pm EST (GMT-5)
The suspect ends on February 16, 2019 at 11:59pm EST (GMT-5) and voting will take place on February 17.
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Simbo
Own a doghouse?
Bp: Should be banned imo
I think bp deserves to be banned here too and I'd argue that bp is even better down here than in lc ou for 4 main reasons.
1. Viable phazing/taunt is heavily limited in this tier
Viable taunters (which do not suffer heavy 4mss when trying to fit taunt on their set) are limited to chespin, duskull, inkay, koffing, meowth-a, purrloin, salandit, stunky and voltorb. Around 40 percent of these mons are pretty underwhelming and would find it difficult filling a place on most teams, while the other mons barring potentially voltorb, purrloin and stunky suffer 4mss and would rather run something else.
Similarly, in a tier pretty driven by offence, phazing moves similarly feel like a moveslot waste vs everything other than bp and don't solve the problem of preventing bp from happening. It only serves to remove one setup mon once but the chain can be setup again.
2. Venonat
Venonat is a far better speed passer in this tier than it is in lc ou. It and its recipients do not have to worry about extremely good offensive threats in the tier above like abra, gastly, vull, bunnelby, pony which heavily pressure what were standard bp builds in lc ou, nor does it and recipients have to worry about the greater defensive mons in the tier above, like foon, ferro, sprit etc. Veno finds it easy to pass speed at least once per game, since sleep absorbers are pretty limited to defensive grasses, houndour, snover and magby. The defensive grasses firstly are not great in the current meta since hail deters usage, morelull lets veno pass free sub and agility and none apply much offensive pressure so may not be able to break the sub of the many bp recipient. Veno can sub on snover/mag/hound switchin and bp, ensuring the switchin doesn't get damaged, or hard agility predicting switch. Veno's good speed tier, adequate bulk and 93 acc sleep means it will put sth to sleep and pass speed at least once per game. Z flash is gimmicky and bad imo but it gives veno some versatility and lets it potentially luck through teams. With sub, veno can also prevent the classic 'let sth go to sleep, then switch into setup mon to pressure recipient' from threats like magby or sders if a recipient can ohko the setup switch.
3. The strength of the recipients
Lc uu has a selection of fantastic speed/speed + sub recipients, all of which are dangerous and incredibly difficult from a teambuilding perspective to try to check when they are +2, such as bu rufflet, sd krabby, sd totodile, sd pancham, sd honedge, cran, cubone and more. The best defensive mons down here are likely lickitung, lileep, bronzor, slowpoke, munch, which all either fail to take +2 coverage moves, or fail to kill back.
4. Potential of bp teams
Barring mienfoo, lc uu has every bp player that usually features in half pass and full pass teams. Even though I don't think half/full pass is nearly as good as simple speed + sub pass, these kinds of teams do have to be considered when teambuilding, which puts even more constraint on building when one also has to try and prep for hail, webs, screens etc.
Overall, I think bp is worthy of also being banned down here. Veno is far better at passing speed down here than in lc ou and the recipients are also more deadly.
Rufflet: Should be banned imo
Rufflet is broken, imo on the same level as corp and dod last lpl and potentially better than dod. Bu ruff is probably the most dangerous setup mon in the tier, sporting great bulk and reliable recovery. There's very little on the physical side that can boast beating it once it gets going, barring sd honedge, potentially opposing bu rufflet, hippo can whirlwind once or get a toxic off, a-shrew in hail and potentially archen. On the special side, voltorb, blitzte, snover and amaura all do about 72-96 to bu. However, webs which is a fantastic playstyle in lc uu, completely mitigates amaura and snover as checks assuming you hit superpower. Unless scarf, volt and blitzle also do not eat a +1 superpower after rocks, even if evio. Rock based checks like kabu and oma fail to check bu ruff if it's at +1 and webs is fantastic at making ruff faster than special attackers which could do sth vs it.
Scarf ruff is slightly overshadowed by bu but it's incredibly dangerous in its own right. Good speed tier for a scarfer, incredibly strong, gets hard hitting broken u-turn and can run sclaw to get past honedge, which otherwise would be its best check.
Even with hail being a good playstyle, rufflet still finds itself being a premier mon in the tier. I feel almost forced to use archen on every team to give me sth vs it that can switch in once safely.
From what I've seen by playing and watching games, rufflet never fails to put in work vs opposing teams and, most of the time, its biggest weakness hasn't been anything the opponent has thrown at it but a timely superpower or bb miss.
Overall, I think rufflet is far too good for this tier.
Not sure about my opinion on oma, its good, not in the same tier as ruff, but I haven't seen it used enough to get a good opinion on its influence in the meta.
I think bp deserves to be banned here too and I'd argue that bp is even better down here than in lc ou for 4 main reasons.
1. Viable phazing/taunt is heavily limited in this tier
Viable taunters (which do not suffer heavy 4mss when trying to fit taunt on their set) are limited to chespin, duskull, inkay, koffing, meowth-a, purrloin, salandit, stunky and voltorb. Around 40 percent of these mons are pretty underwhelming and would find it difficult filling a place on most teams, while the other mons barring potentially voltorb, purrloin and stunky suffer 4mss and would rather run something else.
Similarly, in a tier pretty driven by offence, phazing moves similarly feel like a moveslot waste vs everything other than bp and don't solve the problem of preventing bp from happening. It only serves to remove one setup mon once but the chain can be setup again.
2. Venonat
Venonat is a far better speed passer in this tier than it is in lc ou. It and its recipients do not have to worry about extremely good offensive threats in the tier above like abra, gastly, vull, bunnelby, pony which heavily pressure what were standard bp builds in lc ou, nor does it and recipients have to worry about the greater defensive mons in the tier above, like foon, ferro, sprit etc. Veno finds it easy to pass speed at least once per game, since sleep absorbers are pretty limited to defensive grasses, houndour, snover and magby. The defensive grasses firstly are not great in the current meta since hail deters usage, morelull lets veno pass free sub and agility and none apply much offensive pressure so may not be able to break the sub of the many bp recipient. Veno can sub on snover/mag/hound switchin and bp, ensuring the switchin doesn't get damaged, or hard agility predicting switch. Veno's good speed tier, adequate bulk and 93 acc sleep means it will put sth to sleep and pass speed at least once per game. Z flash is gimmicky and bad imo but it gives veno some versatility and lets it potentially luck through teams. With sub, veno can also prevent the classic 'let sth go to sleep, then switch into setup mon to pressure recipient' from threats like magby or sders if a recipient can ohko the setup switch.
3. The strength of the recipients
Lc uu has a selection of fantastic speed/speed + sub recipients, all of which are dangerous and incredibly difficult from a teambuilding perspective to try to check when they are +2, such as bu rufflet, sd krabby, sd totodile, sd pancham, sd honedge, cran, cubone and more. The best defensive mons down here are likely lickitung, lileep, bronzor, slowpoke, munch, which all either fail to take +2 coverage moves, or fail to kill back.
4. Potential of bp teams
Barring mienfoo, lc uu has every bp player that usually features in half pass and full pass teams. Even though I don't think half/full pass is nearly as good as simple speed + sub pass, these kinds of teams do have to be considered when teambuilding, which puts even more constraint on building when one also has to try and prep for hail, webs, screens etc.
Overall, I think bp is worthy of also being banned down here. Veno is far better at passing speed down here than in lc ou and the recipients are also more deadly.
Rufflet: Should be banned imo
Rufflet is broken, imo on the same level as corp and dod last lpl and potentially better than dod. Bu ruff is probably the most dangerous setup mon in the tier, sporting great bulk and reliable recovery. There's very little on the physical side that can boast beating it once it gets going, barring sd honedge, potentially opposing bu rufflet, hippo can whirlwind once or get a toxic off, a-shrew in hail and potentially archen. On the special side, voltorb, blitzte, snover and amaura all do about 72-96 to bu. However, webs which is a fantastic playstyle in lc uu, completely mitigates amaura and snover as checks assuming you hit superpower. Unless scarf, volt and blitzle also do not eat a +1 superpower after rocks, even if evio. Rock based checks like kabu and oma fail to check bu ruff if it's at +1 and webs is fantastic at making ruff faster than special attackers which could do sth vs it.
Scarf ruff is slightly overshadowed by bu but it's incredibly dangerous in its own right. Good speed tier for a scarfer, incredibly strong, gets hard hitting broken u-turn and can run sclaw to get past honedge, which otherwise would be its best check.
Even with hail being a good playstyle, rufflet still finds itself being a premier mon in the tier. I feel almost forced to use archen on every team to give me sth vs it that can switch in once safely.
From what I've seen by playing and watching games, rufflet never fails to put in work vs opposing teams and, most of the time, its biggest weakness hasn't been anything the opponent has thrown at it but a timely superpower or bb miss.
Overall, I think rufflet is far too good for this tier.
Not sure about my opinion on oma, its good, not in the same tier as ruff, but I haven't seen it used enough to get a good opinion on its influence in the meta.
Sticky Web has been added to the list of things that we will be voting on! We've chosen to suspect it over individual setters because it's the move itself that is being seen as problematic - pretty much any setter will do the trick.
If you have any other ideas on what may be potentially broken, feel free to let us know!
If you have any other ideas on what may be potentially broken, feel free to let us know!
Baton Pass: Ban. I feel playing against speed pass is really hard because there are some really good recipients that are bulky enough and threatening if they are at +2 speed such as krabby or rufflet. Another thing that makes it even harder to play against this kind of teams is that they usually have dual screens/aurora veil wich arent that hard to setup considering voltorb, a 20 speed mon can set up both screens. Also it's not only the fact of the screens being up but the mindgames at team preview, because you never know what to lead, if you lead something that could force out voltorb/amaura/whatever screener they are using you might be in a bad spot vs venonat and lose the game turn 1 and vice versa.
Rufflet: Ban. If this thing isn't really good by itself, everyone using webs makes it even better becaue you will outspeed most of the opposing team (unless they have a 17+ speed scarfer or a 17 speed flying type) and even if they have webs too Rufflet is obviously not affected by that. It's really complicated to prepare for this mon when building because it's would-be checks have trouble switching into certain coverage moves such as rock slide in Archen's case or shadow claw for Honedge. Some rock types can "only" take 80-90% from superpower and activate weak armor (roggenrola for example) but after that the only thing they will do in the game is get up rocks and get sacked later on. Overall I think Rufflet has really limited switch-ins a decent speed tier (wich can become a really good speed tier under webs because of its flying typing) and the only downside it has is the chance of missing any attack that is not aerial ace.
Omanyte: Probably not ban. I haven't made up my mind on this one yet because I haven't really played many omanytes so far but I feel Omanyte is at the same level Shellder is on LC OU (well maybe at the level Shellder was when it was good, now I don't really think it is a top tier threat, but anyway this is not sm lc discussion so let's not talk about Shellder) so you have different options to answer it when teambuilding and maybe the only thing that is scary to me is screens + omanyte, but same goes for screens + any great set-up sweeper like magby, rufflet, etc.
Of course something that might be a bit troublesome about Omanyte is that even it is quite predictable so you can prepare better for it, it's quite restrictive when teambuilding, because you need to have some sort of counterplay to it. That's mainly why I'm not sure if it should be banned or not because even though I think it's not as good as Rufflet it's still pretty good and I don't know how unhealthy can be to the metagame if it stays.
Sticky Web: idk. This playstyle is probably one of the best currently in lc uu, having powerful abusers and not really many good removers in the tier but at the same time it helps checking other really good mons/playstyles such as magby, hail (if you have a +14 speed scarfer in your team),etc. But still I think I would need to play more games with and against it to decide on this one.
Magby: I know this one is not being suspected but honestly this thing always gives me hedaches when trying to build because I don't really see it having that much checks once it's set-up so most times I'm forced to run either 6 mons that can ohko it or webs + a flying type that can live a +6 mach punch. And while it can be argued that it has a harder time setting up than Rufflet there is still a lot of passive mons that it can set-up in front of specially with its ability vital spirit that makes Magby immune to being put to sleep. And then again, screens/memento are things that are usually ran to support Magby so even if it's frail it can take a lot of neutral hits under screens or when the opposing mon is at -2. I'm not saying it should be suspected rn (even though it would be nice) but I just wanted to bring this one into the discussion to see what is the opinion of everyone else on this little guy.
Rufflet: Ban. If this thing isn't really good by itself, everyone using webs makes it even better becaue you will outspeed most of the opposing team (unless they have a 17+ speed scarfer or a 17 speed flying type) and even if they have webs too Rufflet is obviously not affected by that. It's really complicated to prepare for this mon when building because it's would-be checks have trouble switching into certain coverage moves such as rock slide in Archen's case or shadow claw for Honedge. Some rock types can "only" take 80-90% from superpower and activate weak armor (roggenrola for example) but after that the only thing they will do in the game is get up rocks and get sacked later on. Overall I think Rufflet has really limited switch-ins a decent speed tier (wich can become a really good speed tier under webs because of its flying typing) and the only downside it has is the chance of missing any attack that is not aerial ace.
Omanyte: Probably not ban. I haven't made up my mind on this one yet because I haven't really played many omanytes so far but I feel Omanyte is at the same level Shellder is on LC OU (well maybe at the level Shellder was when it was good, now I don't really think it is a top tier threat, but anyway this is not sm lc discussion so let's not talk about Shellder) so you have different options to answer it when teambuilding and maybe the only thing that is scary to me is screens + omanyte, but same goes for screens + any great set-up sweeper like magby, rufflet, etc.
Of course something that might be a bit troublesome about Omanyte is that even it is quite predictable so you can prepare better for it, it's quite restrictive when teambuilding, because you need to have some sort of counterplay to it. That's mainly why I'm not sure if it should be banned or not because even though I think it's not as good as Rufflet it's still pretty good and I don't know how unhealthy can be to the metagame if it stays.
Sticky Web: idk. This playstyle is probably one of the best currently in lc uu, having powerful abusers and not really many good removers in the tier but at the same time it helps checking other really good mons/playstyles such as magby, hail (if you have a +14 speed scarfer in your team),etc. But still I think I would need to play more games with and against it to decide on this one.
Magby: I know this one is not being suspected but honestly this thing always gives me hedaches when trying to build because I don't really see it having that much checks once it's set-up so most times I'm forced to run either 6 mons that can ohko it or webs + a flying type that can live a +6 mach punch. And while it can be argued that it has a harder time setting up than Rufflet there is still a lot of passive mons that it can set-up in front of specially with its ability vital spirit that makes Magby immune to being put to sleep. And then again, screens/memento are things that are usually ran to support Magby so even if it's frail it can take a lot of neutral hits under screens or when the opposing mon is at -2. I'm not saying it should be suspected rn (even though it would be nice) but I just wanted to bring this one into the discussion to see what is the opinion of everyone else on this little guy.
Baton Pass: Should have already been banned when regular LC did it. Echoing what Simbo said, (p)hazing isn't really viable in a tier that is so offence-centric. You have to willingly give up momentum or a moveslot just for it. As opposed to other tiers, where it is also banned, and (p)hazing is more viable, it's a huge sink for momentum lc uu. And when you have recipients of +2 Speed (or z-flash) like Krabby, Rufflett, Cubone and others, it's just not healthy. Do we gain anything good from allowing it? I don't think so. We stand to gain loads of improvements for the meta by removing it though.
Rufflett: Also stupid good. In one LPL match we saw a burned rufflett shrug off attack after attack with roost and bulk up and proceed to annihilate the team. It sits in a pretty speed tier, and has perfect coverage with just 2 attacking moves. Further boosted by Hustle it basically gets all the power of a Life Orb and all the bulk of an Eviolite. Once it gets two Bulk Ups it's pretty much game over.
Omanyte: Possibly broken. Since Slowpoke exists and Depwider beats ones that don't run Ancient Power I don't think it's totally broken. Also Dewpider and Slowpoke usage are high enough, and also Munchlax and a handful of others that I don't think it's broken, just really good.
Webs: While defoggers aren't terribly common, almost everybody brings a rapid spinner, that is to say one of the two Sandshrew options. Archen is also a really viable defogger. I don't think webs are broken. We have 2 contrary users that can take advantage of it and Scarf Defiant Mankey can also be punishing. I'd be less eager to ban webs to be honest.
Rufflett: Also stupid good. In one LPL match we saw a burned rufflett shrug off attack after attack with roost and bulk up and proceed to annihilate the team. It sits in a pretty speed tier, and has perfect coverage with just 2 attacking moves. Further boosted by Hustle it basically gets all the power of a Life Orb and all the bulk of an Eviolite. Once it gets two Bulk Ups it's pretty much game over.
Omanyte: Possibly broken. Since Slowpoke exists and Depwider beats ones that don't run Ancient Power I don't think it's totally broken. Also Dewpider and Slowpoke usage are high enough, and also Munchlax and a handful of others that I don't think it's broken, just really good.
Webs: While defoggers aren't terribly common, almost everybody brings a rapid spinner, that is to say one of the two Sandshrew options. Archen is also a really viable defogger. I don't think webs are broken. We have 2 contrary users that can take advantage of it and Scarf Defiant Mankey can also be punishing. I'd be less eager to ban webs to be honest.
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The council has finished voting. Special thanks to Nineage and Plas for contributing their votes after both winning a suspect tour. Without further ado, here are the results:
Baton Pass - Ban
Rufflet - Ban
Omanyte - Do Not Ban
Sticky Web - Do Not Ban
Thank you to all for participating in the suspect tours and sharing your thoughts in this thread!
Corporal Levi - Ban
Nineage - Ban
Pamplona - Ban
Plas - Ban
Quote - Abstain
Serene Grace - Ban
tahu - Abstain
taranteeeno - Ban
tko - Ban
Ban: 7
Do not ban: 0
Abstain: 2
5 out of 9 votes were required to ban Baton Pass.
Nineage - Ban
Pamplona - Ban
Plas - Ban
Quote - Abstain
Serene Grace - Ban
tahu - Abstain
taranteeeno - Ban
tko - Ban
Ban: 7
Do not ban: 0
Abstain: 2
5 out of 9 votes were required to ban Baton Pass.
Corporal Levi - Ban
Nineage - Ban
Pamplona - Ban
Plas - Ban
Quote - Abstain
Serene Grace - Do not ban
tahu - Abstain
taranteeeno - Ban
tko - Ban
Ban: 6
Do not ban: 1
Abstain: 2
5 out of 9 votes were required to ban Rufflet.
Nineage - Ban
Pamplona - Ban
Plas - Ban
Quote - Abstain
Serene Grace - Do not ban
tahu - Abstain
taranteeeno - Ban
tko - Ban
Ban: 6
Do not ban: 1
Abstain: 2
5 out of 9 votes were required to ban Rufflet.
Corporal Levi - Do not ban
Nineage - Ban
Pamplona - Do not ban
Plas - Do not ban
Quote - Abstain
Serene Grace - Do not ban
tahu - Abstain
taranteeeno - Do not ban
tko - Ban
Ban: 2
Do not ban: 5
Abstain: 2
5 out of 9 votes were required to ban Omanyte.
Nineage - Ban
Pamplona - Do not ban
Plas - Do not ban
Quote - Abstain
Serene Grace - Do not ban
tahu - Abstain
taranteeeno - Do not ban
tko - Ban
Ban: 2
Do not ban: 5
Abstain: 2
5 out of 9 votes were required to ban Omanyte.
Corporal Levi - Ban
Nineage - Do not ban
Pamplona - Do not ban
Plas - Do not ban
Quote - Abstain
Serene Grace - Do not ban
tahu - Abstain
taranteeeno - Do not ban
tko - Do not ban
Ban: 1
Do not ban: 6
Abstain: 2
5 out of 9 votes were required to ban Sticky Web.
Nineage - Do not ban
Pamplona - Do not ban
Plas - Do not ban
Quote - Abstain
Serene Grace - Do not ban
tahu - Abstain
taranteeeno - Do not ban
tko - Do not ban
Ban: 1
Do not ban: 6
Abstain: 2
5 out of 9 votes were required to ban Sticky Web.
Thank you to all for participating in the suspect tours and sharing your thoughts in this thread!
Please refer to this post for current sample teams
Banner by Sealette
OP adapted from Multigen LC Sample Teams Thread
LC UU Sample Teams
Hail Webs Offense by tahu
Dewpider @ Focus Sash
Ability: Water Bubble
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 20 Def / 196 SpA / 20 SpD / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Surf
- Icy Wind
- Magic Coat
Snover @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 5
EVs: 100 Atk / 180 SpA / 196 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Ice Shard
- Protect
Sandshrew-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
Magby @ Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 9 HP
- Flare Blitz
- Thunder Punch
- Brick Break
- Mach Punch
Golett @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 5
EVs: 164 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Punch
- Earthquake
Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 5
EVs: 60 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 52 SpD / 172 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
Ability: Water Bubble
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 20 Def / 196 SpA / 20 SpD / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Surf
- Icy Wind
- Magic Coat
Snover @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 5
EVs: 100 Atk / 180 SpA / 196 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Ice Shard
- Protect
Sandshrew-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
Magby @ Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 9 HP
- Flare Blitz
- Thunder Punch
- Brick Break
- Mach Punch
Golett @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 5
EVs: 164 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Punch
- Earthquake
Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 5
EVs: 60 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 52 SpD / 172 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
Fat T-Spikes Balance (Melon IRL) by Corporal Levi
Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Oblivious
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 40 SpA / 156 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Wish
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Shellos @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 132 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Clear Smog
Tentacool @ Eviolite
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
Honedge @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Atk / 36 Def / 140 SpD / 52 Spe
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
Morelull @ Eviolite
Ability: Effect Spore
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 76 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Strength Sap
Bulbasaur @ Eviolite
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 44 Def / 76 SpA / 76 SpD / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
Ability: Oblivious
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 40 SpA / 156 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Wish
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Shellos @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 132 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Clear Smog
Tentacool @ Eviolite
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
Honedge @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Atk / 36 Def / 140 SpD / 52 Spe
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
Morelull @ Eviolite
Ability: Effect Spore
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 76 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Strength Sap
Bulbasaur @ Eviolite
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 44 Def / 76 SpA / 76 SpD / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
Sand Bulky Offense by fatty
Slowpoke @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 76 Def / 116 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psychic
- Toxic
- Slack Off
Sandshrew @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Rush
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
Honedge @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 140 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
Budew @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 116 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Rest
Diglett-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Force
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
Hippopotas @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 20 Atk / 212 Def / 20 SpD / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Slack Off
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 76 Def / 116 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psychic
- Toxic
- Slack Off
Sandshrew @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Rush
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
Honedge @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 140 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
Budew @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 116 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Rest
Diglett-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Force
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
Hippopotas @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 20 Atk / 212 Def / 20 SpD / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Slack Off
Z-Salandit Bulky Offense by MFJK
Archen @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 180 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
Salandit @ Firium Z
Ability: Oblivious
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 192 SpA / 40 SpD / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 100 Def / 212 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Parting Shot
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt
Shellos-East @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 132 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Clear Smog
Fomantis @ Eviolite
Ability: Contrary
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 200 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Defog
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Honedge @ Berry Juice
Ability: No Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 60 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 180 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
Salandit @ Firium Z
Ability: Oblivious
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 192 SpA / 40 SpD / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 100 Def / 212 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Parting Shot
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt
Shellos-East @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 132 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Clear Smog
Fomantis @ Eviolite
Ability: Contrary
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 200 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Defog
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Honedge @ Berry Juice
Ability: No Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 60 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
Last edited:
hello!
i have a complaint regarding this tier. it is a very fun tier, but i believe there is an issue of nomenclature which is holding it back. i present to you:
the case for littler cup
little cup began in the game pocket monsters stadium 2. it was called little cup because you had to use only unevolved pokemon. this tier got implemented on sims around dpp and became an om. now it is kind of a central smogon metagame. but not really. but anyway. it is big enough now to have its own oms like lc dubs and even this very tier right here itself. i remember i first heard of it from aerow when i first came round to the lc scene in xy. i liked it and i still like it. but since then engagement in the tier hasn't really grown like at all and that's fucked up.
but worry not, my friends, for i have the answer. the big reason this tier has not grown is because it doesn't have a ladder on ps! it doesn't have the playerbase to get a ladder, or it doesn't have a ladder to get a playerbase, chicken or the egg, whatever. this is because people don't like the name "LC UU." and why should they? it's an ugly name. for one thing, it's combining two acronyms, which is just wack as fuck. for another, it's too long of an acronym to stand for something that's not funny. people like short acronyms for most things that aren't funny, like "DNC" or "GOP", and only like acronyms longer than 3 letters when they stand for something funny, like using "SWAG" to mean "some windmills are giants." "LCUU" does not stand for anything funny. it just stands for "little cup underused." which brings me to my third problem with this name. "little cup" naturally abbreviates to "LC," with one letter representing one word. "underused," however, is actually one word per official smogon nomenclature, which is technically supposed to be spelled "UnderUsed," but hey, you can't just put random capital letters in a word like that. that's some bullshit. it wants to be one word and two words at the same time, and did nobody think of hyphenating? but the important thing here is that a four letter acronym, which is far too long for a serious endeavor, only stands for three words. that doesn't make sense. we need a new acronym that does not have these issues.
which brings me to my proposal: change the tier name to "littler cup." if you want an acronym, you can make it "LrC." this name has many advantages, for one that it makes sense, with all the big nasty pokemon in the little cup, that the tier below them would be the littler cup. it is more lexiconically consistent. also, littler cup rolls off the tongue much more easily than lc uu, which is a whole syllable extra! that does not seem like a lot, but think of how many precious moments you waste each and every day with that extra syllable, moments that add up to time you could've spent doing useful things instead of pronouncing some stupid four letter acronym that stands for three words. according to my calculations, renaming this tier to littler cup could save upwards of 3 whole entire minutes off the lives of the tier playerbase in just the first year alone. even for just this reason alone i think we should change the name. but there is more. i believe that renaming this tier littler cup could get us a ladder much more quickly, because it would just fit so much better than lc uu. you hop on showdown, click the button to pick your format, and there, right under little cup, is littler cup. it just makes sense organizationally in a way that the name lc uu does not. imagine seeing lc uu listed under little cup. you'd have to know what lc and uu stood for. that's a lot of knowledge that could discourage new players from coming to the tier. if new players saw littler cup, they would know what it was about: it's like little cup, but, like, littler. which is what it is.
the egregious misdeed done by whoever named it lc uu in the first place cannot be perpetuated. we must take steps to improve ourselves and our world and we must learn from the lessons of the past without memorializing failure. i urge you, my fellow littler cuppers, to join me in righting this boat and bringing unprecedented prosperity and success to this tier. you can support the cause by adding the clan tag [lrc] in front of your name in the little cup and "lc uu" discord channels and by tagging the folks in charge, like this: Corporal Levi Serene Grace taranteeeno tahu Jac Quote tko
join me in making the usage-based tier under little cup great again!!!
i have a complaint regarding this tier. it is a very fun tier, but i believe there is an issue of nomenclature which is holding it back. i present to you:
the case for littler cup
little cup began in the game pocket monsters stadium 2. it was called little cup because you had to use only unevolved pokemon. this tier got implemented on sims around dpp and became an om. now it is kind of a central smogon metagame. but not really. but anyway. it is big enough now to have its own oms like lc dubs and even this very tier right here itself. i remember i first heard of it from aerow when i first came round to the lc scene in xy. i liked it and i still like it. but since then engagement in the tier hasn't really grown like at all and that's fucked up.
but worry not, my friends, for i have the answer. the big reason this tier has not grown is because it doesn't have a ladder on ps! it doesn't have the playerbase to get a ladder, or it doesn't have a ladder to get a playerbase, chicken or the egg, whatever. this is because people don't like the name "LC UU." and why should they? it's an ugly name. for one thing, it's combining two acronyms, which is just wack as fuck. for another, it's too long of an acronym to stand for something that's not funny. people like short acronyms for most things that aren't funny, like "DNC" or "GOP", and only like acronyms longer than 3 letters when they stand for something funny, like using "SWAG" to mean "some windmills are giants." "LCUU" does not stand for anything funny. it just stands for "little cup underused." which brings me to my third problem with this name. "little cup" naturally abbreviates to "LC," with one letter representing one word. "underused," however, is actually one word per official smogon nomenclature, which is technically supposed to be spelled "UnderUsed," but hey, you can't just put random capital letters in a word like that. that's some bullshit. it wants to be one word and two words at the same time, and did nobody think of hyphenating? but the important thing here is that a four letter acronym, which is far too long for a serious endeavor, only stands for three words. that doesn't make sense. we need a new acronym that does not have these issues.
which brings me to my proposal: change the tier name to "littler cup." if you want an acronym, you can make it "LrC." this name has many advantages, for one that it makes sense, with all the big nasty pokemon in the little cup, that the tier below them would be the littler cup. it is more lexiconically consistent. also, littler cup rolls off the tongue much more easily than lc uu, which is a whole syllable extra! that does not seem like a lot, but think of how many precious moments you waste each and every day with that extra syllable, moments that add up to time you could've spent doing useful things instead of pronouncing some stupid four letter acronym that stands for three words. according to my calculations, renaming this tier to littler cup could save upwards of 3 whole entire minutes off the lives of the tier playerbase in just the first year alone. even for just this reason alone i think we should change the name. but there is more. i believe that renaming this tier littler cup could get us a ladder much more quickly, because it would just fit so much better than lc uu. you hop on showdown, click the button to pick your format, and there, right under little cup, is littler cup. it just makes sense organizationally in a way that the name lc uu does not. imagine seeing lc uu listed under little cup. you'd have to know what lc and uu stood for. that's a lot of knowledge that could discourage new players from coming to the tier. if new players saw littler cup, they would know what it was about: it's like little cup, but, like, littler. which is what it is.
the egregious misdeed done by whoever named it lc uu in the first place cannot be perpetuated. we must take steps to improve ourselves and our world and we must learn from the lessons of the past without memorializing failure. i urge you, my fellow littler cuppers, to join me in righting this boat and bringing unprecedented prosperity and success to this tier. you can support the cause by adding the clan tag [lrc] in front of your name in the little cup and "lc uu" discord channels and by tagging the folks in charge, like this: Corporal Levi Serene Grace taranteeeno tahu Jac Quote tko
join me in making the usage-based tier under little cup great again!!!
I am not against your idea of Littler cup but in the future if there will be LC NU or below how will we name it. (If it s considered one liner or not fit the threat feel free to delete it mods)
Sacrificed
basically it is like normal adjectives. littler than little is littler, littler than littler is littlerer, littler than that is littlest, littler than that is littlester, and so on.
| big boy mons tier | little cup equivalent nomenclature |
| ou | little cup |
| uu | littler cup |
| ru | littlerer cup |
| nu | littlest cup |
| pu | littlester cup |
| zu | littlesterer cup |
| whatever is below that | littlestest cup |
| etc. | etc. |
basically it is like normal adjectives. littler than little is littler, littler than littler is littlerer, littler than that is littlest, littler than that is littlester, and so on.
Yahallo littler cuppers,
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...19-feb-99-mar-111.3645743/page-5#post-8056539This post has recently been updated to include LC and there are some quickdrops!
Frillish is now LC UU!
This will go into effect immediately for roomtours and will be available for any LC UU tournaments starting next week.
EDIT: Also Cottonee should've never moved up in the first place during the January shifts, that vro is also free
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...19-feb-99-mar-111.3645743/page-5#post-8056539This post has recently been updated to include LC and there are some quickdrops!
Frillish is now LC UU!
This will go into effect immediately for roomtours and will be available for any LC UU tournaments starting next week.
EDIT: Also Cottonee should've never moved up in the first place during the January shifts, that vro is also free
Last edited:
frillish looks pretty cool as a metagame addition. it makes webs slightly less predictable, giving them a spinblocker other than pumpkaboo, and looks like it'll be a decent omanyte check, as it has a much lower chance to get 2hko'd by +2 earth power compared to slowpoke. it also serves as an ok fighting check due to its immunity, though it can't really check pancham due to the fact that it's forced to forgo hp or spa investment to even be able to speed tie and burn it.
scarf frillish could be pretty useful on waterspam with omanyte as well, but it's surprisingly weak, and you're forced to either keep hazards off the field or not use frillish till lategame, limiting its effectiveness.
pretty excited for cottonee, however. prankster sunny day makes cottonee a really good setter, and also serves as a hail check if you're really, really weak to hail (though riolu probably does that better, due to no ice weakness). it can also help with last-ditch attempts to check strong sweepers like omanyte or magby by stun sporing then dying. it also provides general good support with knock, memento and tailwind for sweepers and +1 prio defog against webs. suffers from a bit of 4mss, but looks like it'll be pretty good to just cover some specific threats.
im bad though so i probably got some things wrong
+2 196+ SpA Omanyte Earth Power vs. 236 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Frillish: 11-13 (44 - 52%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 196+ SpA Omanyte Earth Power vs. 116 HP / 196+ SpD Eviolite Slowpoke: 12-15 (44.4 - 55.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
+2 196+ SpA Omanyte Earth Power vs. 116 HP / 196+ SpD Eviolite Slowpoke: 12-15 (44.4 - 55.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
scarf frillish could be pretty useful on waterspam with omanyte as well, but it's surprisingly weak, and you're forced to either keep hazards off the field or not use frillish till lategame, limiting its effectiveness.
pretty excited for cottonee, however. prankster sunny day makes cottonee a really good setter, and also serves as a hail check if you're really, really weak to hail (though riolu probably does that better, due to no ice weakness). it can also help with last-ditch attempts to check strong sweepers like omanyte or magby by stun sporing then dying. it also provides general good support with knock, memento and tailwind for sweepers and +1 prio defog against webs. suffers from a bit of 4mss, but looks like it'll be pretty good to just cover some specific threats.
im bad though so i probably got some things wrong
Oh help I have an opinion on thingsWelcome to the LC UU viability ranking, which is like the LC viability ranking but for LC UU. As is the case for the LC viability ranking, we will "tier" every Pokemon based on usefulness. An initial tier list has already been made; if you think something should be moved up or down, post in this thread with your reasoning on why, and the change may be enacted, but please make sure you have a proper understanding of the current metagame before doing so. Bad/basic posts will be deleted, and repeated offenses may be punished by infraction. However, asking questions about why certain Pokemon are ranked where they are is acceptable.
Viability Ranking Council
Levi
Serene Grace
Taranteeeno
Fatty
TKO
Pamplona
Tahu
Tier list
Here are the rankings. Subtiers are ordered alphabetically.
S RANK
S
Dewpider
Pancham
A RANK
A+
Magby
Munchlax
Omanyte
Sandshrew-Alola
Shellos
Snover
A
Archen
View attachment 166093 Cottonee
View attachment 166091 Frillish
Honedge
Lickitung
Sandshrew
Slowpoke
Taillow
Tentacool
A-
Amaura
Bulbasaur
View attachment 166094 Fomantis
View attachment 166095 Krabby
Salandit
Voltorb
B RANK
B+
Budew
Bronzor
Hippopotas
Houndour
Inkay
Lileep
Mankey
Minccino
Morelull
Pumpkaboo-Super
Riolu
Stunky
B
Cranidos
Darumaka
Dratini
Golett
Kabuto
Larvesta
Natu
Pumpkaboo-Small
Skrelp
Stufful
B-
Anorith
Axew
Cubchoo
Crabrawler
Elgyem
Exeggcute
Gible
Growlithe
Helioptile
Machop
Pineco
Rattata-Alola
Sandile
Solosis
Tyrunt
C RANK
Aron
Binacle
Chespin
Cubone
Froakie
Geodude
Geodude-Alola
Koffing
Litleo
Numel
Paras
Piplup
Poliwag
Remoraid
Rowlet
Skiddo
Spinarak
Teddiursa
Totodile
Trubbish
Venipede
Zorua
D RANKView attachment 166096Azurill
Bellsprout
Togepi
Horsea
Mantyke
Rattata
Sewaddle
Turtwig
Frillish A > S
Frillish is absolutely nuts. It has very high defenses, and water absorb gives it an edge over other bulky water types because it renders one of their STAB moves useless. Access to Will-o-Wisp makes it hard to threaten it physically, and specially only some grass types can get in reasonably safely to threaten it, and even those have to be wary of Ice Beam. It can run tanky sets just as well as a scarf Water Spout set, and it can do both pretty well, making the mon unpredictable and hard to play around. Even a tanky set has quite some damage output with the combination of Scald/Will-o and Hex. In my opinion Frillish is the best pokemon in the tier right now.
Last edited:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usage-based-tier-update-for-april-2019.3648801/#post-8084986
Drops are here!
We have gained:
+Elekid
+Clamperl
+Drilbur
We have lost:
nothing!
Feel free to discuss about the drops here
Drops are here!
We have gained:
+Elekid
+Clamperl
+Drilbur
We have lost:
nothing!
Feel free to discuss about the drops here
Some noms:
Mantyke D to B somewhere
Putting a mon that can run rain dance, scarf, waterium-z and evio sets pretty well in D rank is a bit rude ngl. rain dance in particular is good for water partners, primarily omanyte, and helps counter hail. Admittedly this guy won't like the elekid drop but you have other mons for that thing.
Goldeen Unranked to B- or B
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-884375586 watch and learn (ignore the lucky crit on the dewpider). This guy is pretty great, he can switch into electric types pretty comfortably, and outspeeds bulbasaur and fomantis and KOs them with z-bounce. It also gets knock off which is pretty helpful since it has a decent speed tier. Obviously the flynium set loses its surprise factor now, but a water type being immune to electric is a great niche. This mon will also get better with the arrival of drilbur and elekid.
Cranidos B to B+/A-
This thing is lethal on a well built webs team, with sheer force life orb and a wide physical movepool that allows it to pick out its targets. It can also run a scarf set for non webs teams. This is definitely as good as things like budew, lileep and bronzor if not better, and it also benefits from the lack of fighting priority.
Kabuto B to B+/A-
Excellent spinner, rock setter and birdcheck. Easily 1v1's pineco, the main hazard stacker and does well against dewpider.
Other noms that i cba to explain in much detail
Drops from B- to C:
Cubchoo - just use alolan-shrew
Exeggcute - what does he do again?
Solosis - too slow for webs and trick room is pretty bad
Gible - ice is too good for it in this meta
Better than C:
Koffing - decent check to non-guts physical attackers, and psychic types arent great here
Trubbish - good against fomantis, bulbasaur, pancham
Maybe remoraid, spinarak and litleo but idk
Worse than C:
Paras - fire and flying types exist
New arrivals
Clamperl -Ban deepseatooth
Elekid - Finally a decent volt switch user. Decent but probably not broken. I expect it to fit into A/A+.
Drilbur - Decent spinner with good coverage. Should be a solid A mon. Also sand
Mantyke D to B somewhere
Putting a mon that can run rain dance, scarf, waterium-z and evio sets pretty well in D rank is a bit rude ngl. rain dance in particular is good for water partners, primarily omanyte, and helps counter hail. Admittedly this guy won't like the elekid drop but you have other mons for that thing.
Goldeen Unranked to B- or B
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-884375586 watch and learn (ignore the lucky crit on the dewpider). This guy is pretty great, he can switch into electric types pretty comfortably, and outspeeds bulbasaur and fomantis and KOs them with z-bounce. It also gets knock off which is pretty helpful since it has a decent speed tier. Obviously the flynium set loses its surprise factor now, but a water type being immune to electric is a great niche. This mon will also get better with the arrival of drilbur and elekid.
Goldeen @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 5
EVs: 220 Atk / 36 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Drill Run
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 5
EVs: 220 Atk / 36 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Drill Run
Cranidos B to B+/A-
This thing is lethal on a well built webs team, with sheer force life orb and a wide physical movepool that allows it to pick out its targets. It can also run a scarf set for non webs teams. This is definitely as good as things like budew, lileep and bronzor if not better, and it also benefits from the lack of fighting priority.
Kabuto B to B+/A-
Excellent spinner, rock setter and birdcheck. Easily 1v1's pineco, the main hazard stacker and does well against dewpider.
Other noms that i cba to explain in much detail
Drops from B- to C:
Cubchoo - just use alolan-shrew
Exeggcute - what does he do again?
Solosis - too slow for webs and trick room is pretty bad
Gible - ice is too good for it in this meta
Better than C:
Koffing - decent check to non-guts physical attackers, and psychic types arent great here
Trubbish - good against fomantis, bulbasaur, pancham
Maybe remoraid, spinarak and litleo but idk
Worse than C:
Paras - fire and flying types exist
New arrivals
Clamperl -
Elekid - Finally a decent volt switch user. Decent but probably not broken. I expect it to fit into A/A+.
Drilbur - Decent spinner with good coverage. Should be a solid A mon. Also sand
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Hello LC UUers!
The LC UU council would like to announce a council suspect to address the following issues:
Magby
Dewpider
Like the last suspect, we will be hosting a number of live suspect tours. The highest placing non-council member will be allowed to vote on the two matters above. The suspect tours will be held on the following days:
This council suspect will run for two weeks with all seven council members + four highest placing non-council members voting. A >50% majority must be met in order to ban.
The suspect ends on April 20, 2019 at 11:59pm EDT (GMT-4) and voting will take place on April 21.
P.S. Serene Grace has decided to step down from LC UU TL. He will remain on the council and I will take over for him.
The LC UU council would like to announce a council suspect to address the following issues:
Magby is the premier setup sweeper in LC UU. The combination of Belly Drum and Berry Juice allow Magby to reach a monstrous attack stat of 68 and get back to full health. What’s more is that it can live attacks and setup on common defensive pivots in the tier such as Pancham. Once setup, almost nothing can live a neutral +6 Fire Punch and its blazing 19 speed tier means little is revenge killing. In addition, it has the coverage to blow through almost every viable wall in the meta as well as Mach Punch through faster revenge killers like Sandshrew-A in Hail. Other strong sets include a Life Orb breaker, but Belly Drum Magby has proven to be the most dangerous setup sweeper in the meta and the focus of this suspect.
Since LC UU’s revival, Dewpider has been the tier’s staple Sticky Web setter. Dewpider alone may be responsible for the devastating effectiveness of Sticky Web in the tier. What sets it apart from other setters is its Water Bubble ability and phenomenal typing in a meta where Hail sweepers are extremely potent. Water Bubble allows it to break through many defensive mons with Scald or Liquidation as well as beat common webs deterrents like Natu. Water/Bug typing allows it resist spammable attacks in the meta such as Blizzard, Earthquake, and Scald. It doesn’t hurt that it can’t be burned either. In addition to all of this, Dewpider has suitable bulk to avoid running Focus Sash as its item. Berry Juice and Eviolite allow it to act as a defensive pivot in addition to the best Sticky Web setter in the meta. There are very few reasons not to use it.
Like the last suspect, we will be hosting a number of live suspect tours. The highest placing non-council member will be allowed to vote on the two matters above. The suspect tours will be held on the following days:
- April 12th, 2019 at 5pm EDT (GMT-4)
- April 13th, 2019 at 3pm EDT (GMT-4)
- April 19th, 2019 at 5pm EDT (GMT-4)
- April 20th, 2019 at 3pm EDT (GMT-4)
This council suspect will run for two weeks with all seven council members + four highest placing non-council members voting. A >50% majority must be met in order to ban.
The suspect ends on April 20, 2019 at 11:59pm EDT (GMT-4) and voting will take place on April 21.
P.S. Serene Grace has decided to step down from LC UU TL. He will remain on the council and I will take over for him.
A few thoughts on the Pokemon in question...
Magby
Magby is fast and powerful thanks to its speed tier and Belly Drum. It is also majorly helped with Sticky Web stopping faster Pokemon from revenge killing. With that being said from a quick look at the VR even without Sticky Web it finds itself hard to revenge. Here are a few techs that can come in on it pretty well to revenge.
I am not saying any of these Pokemon are good, its just an insight to what can revenge it if Sticky Webs weren't as prevalent. My end thoughts on Magby is that its still very over-centralising and if you need to use these very limited Pokemon to beat it then its probably broken.
Dewpider
116+ Atk Water Bubble Dewpider Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Entire LC UU Tier: 80-104 (8000 - 10400%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Free Sticky Webs vs entire meta.
Magby
Magby is fast and powerful thanks to its speed tier and Belly Drum. It is also majorly helped with Sticky Web stopping faster Pokemon from revenge killing. With that being said from a quick look at the VR even without Sticky Web it finds itself hard to revenge. Here are a few techs that can come in on it pretty well to revenge.
Sandshrew @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Rush
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 76 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock / X-Scissor
Sandshrew with sand up can take a +6 Mach Punch and kill it with ease. Choice Scarf can be used on a team without sand in order to outspeed and revenge Magby as well.
+6 236 Atk Magby Mach Punch vs. 36 HP / 76 Def Sandshrew: 12-15 (54.5 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Unfortunately for Sandshrew its Alolan form is better and Hail teams have a very good match up against it making it hard to justify using often.
Ability: Sand Rush
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 76 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock / X-Scissor
Sandshrew with sand up can take a +6 Mach Punch and kill it with ease. Choice Scarf can be used on a team without sand in order to outspeed and revenge Magby as well.
+6 236 Atk Magby Mach Punch vs. 36 HP / 76 Def Sandshrew: 12-15 (54.5 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Unfortunately for Sandshrew its Alolan form is better and Hail teams have a very good match up against it making it hard to justify using often.
Frillish @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam / Scald
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
Frillish with a Choice Scarf is faster than Magby and immune to Mach Punch making it an amazing revenge killer for it. Unfortunately, Frillish is prone to being pursuit trapped (idk how many good trappers are in LC UU).
236 SpA Frillish Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magby: 44-54 (220 - 270%) -- guaranteed OHKO
236 SpA Frillish Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magby: 24-30 (120 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam / Scald
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
Frillish with a Choice Scarf is faster than Magby and immune to Mach Punch making it an amazing revenge killer for it. Unfortunately, Frillish is prone to being pursuit trapped (idk how many good trappers are in LC UU).
236 SpA Frillish Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magby: 44-54 (220 - 270%) -- guaranteed OHKO
236 SpA Frillish Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magby: 24-30 (120 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Tentacool @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Rapid Spin
Choice Scarf Tentacool is quite an unmon because of how weak it is but it works well to revenge Magby, taking a small amount from Mach Punch and revenge killing it with Hydro Pump or even Scald. It also has the advantage of Clear Body allowing it to work against Webs. Unfort Tentacool is quite weak.
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Rapid Spin
Choice Scarf Tentacool is quite an unmon because of how weak it is but it works well to revenge Magby, taking a small amount from Mach Punch and revenge killing it with Hydro Pump or even Scald. It also has the advantage of Clear Body allowing it to work against Webs. Unfort Tentacool is quite weak.
Krabby @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- X-Scissor
- Superpower
Choice Scarf Krabby can still be quite powerful in LC UU as well as being able to revenge Magby. Sheer Force helps it vs the rest of the meta whereas Liquidation blows Magby away.
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- X-Scissor
- Superpower
Choice Scarf Krabby can still be quite powerful in LC UU as well as being able to revenge Magby. Sheer Force helps it vs the rest of the meta whereas Liquidation blows Magby away.
I am not saying any of these Pokemon are good, its just an insight to what can revenge it if Sticky Webs weren't as prevalent. My end thoughts on Magby is that its still very over-centralising and if you need to use these very limited Pokemon to beat it then its probably broken.
Dewpider
116+ Atk Water Bubble Dewpider Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Entire LC UU Tier: 80-104 (8000 - 10400%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Free Sticky Webs vs entire meta.