Oh I run max defense Scraggy with intimidate; that's probably why I've never been OHKOed before. Also it depends if Fletchling has an item.
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Resource LC Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Corporal Levi
- Start date
- Status
We were talking about offensive DD Scraggy Specifically, which usually runs shed skin or moxie :@
I'm starting to think Chinchou needs to be pushed up to S rank. I think it's time. It's a extremely versatile Pokemon, and it can be thrown on virtually any team and be a useful member. It forms a great VoltTurn core with Mienfoo and it's able to nail thinks like Fletchling, Archen, and water-types really hard. It's scarf set is my favourite as it can force switches and maintain momentum, and it's other sets, like RestTalk are also very useable.
Chinchou is fantastic, but it's not really good enough to go up to S. It has the potential to be used very well, but when compared to metagame defining giants like Misdreavus, Pawniard, and Mienfoo, it falls short. It doesn't have the native speed and fantastic special attack of Misdreavus, while also maintaining good defenses, the sheer utility and momentum grabbing capabilities of Mienfoo while also having great offensive capabilities if pressed, along with the longevity it maintains, or the ability to force every team to run some sort of way to deal with it or lose like Pawniard does. Chinchou has decent special attack and speed, nothing particularly special, and good defenses (although they're just slightly disappointing on the physical side), but it doesn't have the longevity or sheer threateningness that the S-rank giants do.
Chinchou has three possible roles it can play into for S-rank. First off, momentum grabbing Volt Switch. While its typing is absolutely fantastic for that, allowing it to heavily damage ground types that try to block it, it is vulnerable to hazards and lacks recovery. If it runs choice scarf, to have a fast volt switch, it relies on wish recovery to help it survive or absorbing handy electric (water) type attacks. Unlike Mienfoo's regenerator, which makes it able to u-turn for virtually only benefits, Chinchou cannot continuously switch through hazards, making it reliant on teammates to defog/spin them away. Bulky switching suffers problems from lack of recovery again, which is only increased due to the fact that it takes damage from faster things as well. Sleeping switching, which I've seen done well a few times, is possible, but unreliable, and can backfire horribly.
The second one possible, an offensive set, is merely decent. It has good bulk, but a lack of power and reliable recovery outside of rest hurt it. With a scarf, it's able to hit first, but with separate Pokemon able to wall it completely, actually losing momentum if they outpredict you, it can have issues. It also doesn't have prefect neutral coverage, due to the fact that other chinchou and grass types in general resist its STABs.
The final possible role, that of a defensive mon, is possible, but once again hurt by the lack of reliable recovery outside of rest, and, despite a great typing, it just doesn't have the pure defensive stats to allow it to work as well as other defensive threats.
In the end, it is a combination of all three that make it great, but it has several flaws that make it not quite godly. It's not a threat that must be prepared for, otherwise your team might lose, but rather one on the sides of your sight, and a possibility to help you patch up your own weaknesses.
Oh I run DD Scraggy. Intimidate works better than moxie because it's can force a switch to set up whereas moxie seems redundant with DD.
Moxie isn't redundant with DD; there's a lot of stuff Scraggy can't kill at +1, but can at +2, and requiring only one turn of setup rather than 2 to sweep a team is huge. Shed Skin lets Scraggy set up on stuff like Porygon or Ferroseed, though.
Intimidate is by no means a bad ability, but it's not as useful on Scraggy's (very potent) offensive sets.
I guess all three of Scraggy's abilities have their pros and cons, but advantages Moxie provide over Intimidate include how at +1, Scraggy might lack the raw power to muscle through bulkier pokes; that Intimidate procs Defiant on Pawniard, a Pokemon Moxie Scraggy would be able to switch into more easily; and that Intimidate isn't all that necessary, either, considering how many switches Scraggy already forces.
Merrity (and Wobbyble a while back iirc) outlined why Chinchou shouldn't be S rank fairly well; although it is potent as both an offensive or defensive Pokemon, it isn't GREAT at either of them, and all its advantages added together don't usually create a Pokemon that's unbearably difficult to deal with, even for more unprepared teams.
I also agree with Diglett moving to tier B; although it's frail and not all that powerful, the utility it brings to the table is enormous. Popular offensive Pokemon and cores hugely appreciate Diglett's ability to remove key Pokemon such as Chinchou from the game, and that alone gives Diglett a very noteworthy niche, one that many teams wouldn't mind having.
ok found it http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lc-viability-rankings.3496013/page-15#post-5290017
Merrity (and Wobbyble a while back iirc) outlined why Chinchou shouldn't be S rank fairly well; although it is potent as both an offensive or defensive Pokemon, it isn't GREAT at either of them, and all its advantages added together don't usually create a Pokemon that's unbearably difficult to deal with, even for more unprepared teams.
I also agree with Diglett moving to tier B; although it's frail and not all that powerful, the utility it brings to the table is enormous. Popular offensive Pokemon and cores hugely appreciate Diglett's ability to remove key Pokemon such as Chinchou from the game, and that alone gives Diglett a very noteworthy niche, one that many teams wouldn't mind having.
ok found it http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lc-viability-rankings.3496013/page-15#post-5290017
I agree man, I personally run Shed Skin.
Ferroseed gets raped by any fire move and Clamperl is too frail, so it's rare that it gets to set up. Plus with all the Sucker Punchers/Priority users out there, Clamperl gets screwed.
Skin, try editing your posts instead of posting three times in a row :P Also Kingler's post is from like last year so I don't think what he said really applies to the current metagame
My main issue with Bunny in S is how much difficulty it has against the most popular poke in the tier right now coupled with its ridiculous frailty leaving it prone to priority attacks such as Fletchling's itemless Acrobatics or Pawniard's Sucker Punch; however, I still agree that it should be tier A simply due to its raw damage, which is able to shine now that Meditite is gone. Of course, if it fails to OHKO certain threats, it's pretty much out of the match, but Scarf Bunnelby can still pull off nice sweeps once resists/immunities are removed and extremely bulky Pokemon are weakened, and the number of pokes that can avoid the OHKO or 2HKO from LO Bunnelby is pretty limited.
My main issue with Bunny in S is how much difficulty it has against the most popular poke in the tier right now coupled with its ridiculous frailty leaving it prone to priority attacks such as Fletchling's itemless Acrobatics or Pawniard's Sucker Punch; however, I still agree that it should be tier A simply due to its raw damage, which is able to shine now that Meditite is gone. Of course, if it fails to OHKO certain threats, it's pretty much out of the match, but Scarf Bunnelby can still pull off nice sweeps once resists/immunities are removed and extremely bulky Pokemon are weakened, and the number of pokes that can avoid the OHKO or 2HKO from LO Bunnelby is pretty limited.
Pawniard for b: reason? O it gets raped by any fighting type move. Saying a mon should not be moved up purely for typing is a terrible argument, I mean heck why not unban gligar and scyther bcuz they get raped by ice moves and rock moves respectively.
Ferroseed is such a mixed bag I can't even. On one hand, it's incredibly bulky, has a great support move pool and a good defensive typing. But it's also fairly weak offensively, struggles against the second most common type in the tier, fighting, and is setup fodder for fighting types as well.
I believe this mon should be discussed more, as I can't sing it's praises or criticize it's downfalls enough. It is a superb hazard setter, but complete taunt bait for mienfoo. Has a great defensive ability but no reliable recovery outside of leech seed. It beats most common spinners as well.
Tl;dr-speak more on this mon
Sneasel raped by Fighting moves, Yanma raped by Rock moves, Tangela raped by Fire moves in sun(bc it is a chlorophyller). Unban all imo
In the current meta, I believe that Ferroseed can move up to A-rank. With Meditite's ban, which removes a major fighting type threat that was able to OHKO Ferroseed (depending on the sets each was running), and with Murkrow's ban which is even more important, considering that it ran heat wave more often than PS lags. It is now able to set down hazards and wear down the opposing team with iron barbs, thunder wave, and leech seed far more easily. In addition, outside of STAB, fire type coverage isn't particularly common, unlike fighting type hidden power, which everyone and their mother runs if they can, in order to hit Pawniard.
Sorry Corporal Levi, I will. I'm new to this. and yeah. I know I never look at stuff. I know it's true Bunnelby is frail and all etc etc. :P
Dodrio-> moving to b
diglett-> moving to b
i havent actually played enough to say this for sure, so yeah talk more about ferroseed. i dont agree with bunny for A ever but that could just be me. prove to me its worth A.
chinchou and bunny will never be S.
scraggy people argue i need to test it and all but argue some more
diglett-> moving to b
i havent actually played enough to say this for sure, so yeah talk more about ferroseed. i dont agree with bunny for A ever but that could just be me. prove to me its worth A.
chinchou and bunny will never be S.
scraggy people argue i need to test it and all but argue some more
Scraggy does not need S at all. Yes, it is probably the premier sweeper. However, unlike past S tier pokemon, such as Murkrow or Meditite, it is easily revenge killed and walled. Be it Fletchling, Spritzee, Scarf Missy, or Mienfoo, Scraggy can be beaten very easily. It is a poor scarfer imo as Pawniard is better, with the ability to trap missy. Scraggy needs team support and cannot ust be thrown onto a team willy nilly.
Ferroseed could be A rank. Hazards are everything, and Ferroseed's bulk is extremely beneficiail in this metagame. With the ability to softcheck Misdreavus and provide support for teammates, I think Ferroseed deserves A rank. It loses to most fighting types however, meaning team support is required.
Ferroseed could be A rank. Hazards are everything, and Ferroseed's bulk is extremely beneficiail in this metagame. With the ability to softcheck Misdreavus and provide support for teammates, I think Ferroseed deserves A rank. It loses to most fighting types however, meaning team support is required.
First of all I'll talk about Scraggy. LOL if you think that's S you need to reconsider Fletchling's existence, Spritzee's existence, Mienfoo's existence, and Dazzling Gleam's existence. It got stealth nerfed as fuck this generation and there's a reason it's low. I would barely consider it an A Pokemon.
Bunnelby is one-dimensional and can't take one hit. It doesn't have a super reliable way to remove Misdreavus and as a Scarfer lacks the power to deal with the bulky Fighting-types. Stay B.
Ferroseed is really good but it can't do it's job without some major support and checking capabilities because it's set up bait..... and it can't do "everything" at once; it even needs support supporting. Stay B.
Prem asked me to make a post about this thread which I've been putting off since bans and stuff and also there's so much shit.
A -> S
Chinchou's an S Pokemon even if it doesn't resemble the power of Misdreavus or Pawniard. It fits on literally every team. It checks like every Pokemon, can spread paralysis or heal bell. If your team is missing something, you should probably add Chinchou to it.
A -> B
Croagunk is really cool and useful at times but it's not even close to A rank. It is weak and frail in comparison to the attacks it will be required to take. If it was faster, stronger, or bulkier it could easily abuse it's awesome typing, but currently all it has is the typing, ability and movepool.
Cottonee is obviously a niche Pokemon. It's very useful but it can't be that useful. Pure support doesn't have enough moveslots for Substitute, Tailwind, Encore, Leech Seed, Memento, Taunt and Knock Off while the attacking variant has room for one less. Use it to set up Zigzagoon etc but it's otherwise not super threatening.
Ponyta is weak to Stealth Rock and can't even think about getting passed Chinchou. It's not bulky enough to take a bunch of attacks after Stealth Rock even if it makes a decent switch into Mienfoo the first time, the second and third will be harder to do without Eviolite.
Porygon is still strong, but the omnipresent Fighting-types literally destroy this former powerhouse. It still has uses for checking Fletchling and etc but otherwise it's not good enough to warrant giving Mienfoo / Timburr / Scraggy a switch-in.
Vullaby I have literally no fucking idea how this got here. It's a defogger that's slower than the most common Stealth Rockers and loses to them handily. It still has its uses and can function effectively on some teams but B rank is even pushing it.
B -> A
Trubbish has stormed the LC metagame with Meditite's removal. It can switch into Mienfoo and lol at basically every move. Pawniard even has trouble with it. It can be set up bait for Missy, that's true, but it can also Spike and switch out. It's really useful and I'm sure we're going to see it even more, possibly even with Dark Pulse.
B -> C
Staryu kinda sucks now :(. It can't beat Misdreavus even if it switches into Hydro Pump. It is simply outclassed by Taunt and Defog. It doesn't have Chinchou's electric-typing and immunity which is what carries that so far, and it isn't bulky enough to take advantage of recover.
C -> B
Zigzagoon is a real threat this metagame. Berry Juice and Knock Off buff made Eviolite slightly less plausible to maintain and abuse, meaning almost everything is OHKOed by ExtremeSpeed. It still needs some Memento and Pursuit support though.
Onix is simply B because it can Taunt fucker Dwebbles and set up its own SR. Meditite no longer exists to punish Onix either.
I could get even nitpickier with Geodude -> C but I'm kind of tired already.
Bunnelby is one-dimensional and can't take one hit. It doesn't have a super reliable way to remove Misdreavus and as a Scarfer lacks the power to deal with the bulky Fighting-types. Stay B.
Ferroseed is really good but it can't do it's job without some major support and checking capabilities because it's set up bait..... and it can't do "everything" at once; it even needs support supporting. Stay B.
Prem asked me to make a post about this thread which I've been putting off since bans and stuff and also there's so much shit.
A -> S
Chinchou's an S Pokemon even if it doesn't resemble the power of Misdreavus or Pawniard. It fits on literally every team. It checks like every Pokemon, can spread paralysis or heal bell. If your team is missing something, you should probably add Chinchou to it.
A -> B
Croagunk is really cool and useful at times but it's not even close to A rank. It is weak and frail in comparison to the attacks it will be required to take. If it was faster, stronger, or bulkier it could easily abuse it's awesome typing, but currently all it has is the typing, ability and movepool.
Cottonee is obviously a niche Pokemon. It's very useful but it can't be that useful. Pure support doesn't have enough moveslots for Substitute, Tailwind, Encore, Leech Seed, Memento, Taunt and Knock Off while the attacking variant has room for one less. Use it to set up Zigzagoon etc but it's otherwise not super threatening.
Ponyta is weak to Stealth Rock and can't even think about getting passed Chinchou. It's not bulky enough to take a bunch of attacks after Stealth Rock even if it makes a decent switch into Mienfoo the first time, the second and third will be harder to do without Eviolite.
Porygon is still strong, but the omnipresent Fighting-types literally destroy this former powerhouse. It still has uses for checking Fletchling and etc but otherwise it's not good enough to warrant giving Mienfoo / Timburr / Scraggy a switch-in.
Vullaby I have literally no fucking idea how this got here. It's a defogger that's slower than the most common Stealth Rockers and loses to them handily. It still has its uses and can function effectively on some teams but B rank is even pushing it.
B -> A
Trubbish has stormed the LC metagame with Meditite's removal. It can switch into Mienfoo and lol at basically every move. Pawniard even has trouble with it. It can be set up bait for Missy, that's true, but it can also Spike and switch out. It's really useful and I'm sure we're going to see it even more, possibly even with Dark Pulse.
B -> C
Staryu kinda sucks now :(. It can't beat Misdreavus even if it switches into Hydro Pump. It is simply outclassed by Taunt and Defog. It doesn't have Chinchou's electric-typing and immunity which is what carries that so far, and it isn't bulky enough to take advantage of recover.
C -> B
Zigzagoon is a real threat this metagame. Berry Juice and Knock Off buff made Eviolite slightly less plausible to maintain and abuse, meaning almost everything is OHKOed by ExtremeSpeed. It still needs some Memento and Pursuit support though.
Onix is simply B because it can Taunt fucker Dwebbles and set up its own SR. Meditite no longer exists to punish Onix either.
I could get even nitpickier with Geodude -> C but I'm kind of tired already.
I have to disagree with pretty much all of the above, but a few really stand out to me. Ponyta, Vullaby, and Trubbish should absolutely stay where they are. Ponyta is the best Fire type in Little Cup, and one glance at its stats and movepool should be able to tell you why.
Unlike what you said, Ponyta actually can get past Chinchou - both of the sets on its analysis byCorkscrew Rowan allow it to beat Chinchou as long as it has set up sunny day first, making Chinchou not even a counter, but a check. Ponyta also has one of the single hardest hitting moves in the tier not named High Jump Kick or Head Smash, and after Sunny Day it hits harder than even those. It also has good defenses, especially with Eviolite, and mixed capabilities to surprise people. It may seem like it's impractical, but in reality it's one of the most underrated but strong Pokemon in the tier. Taking down rocks isn't too much of a hardship, and even if they were, remember that Murkrow was weak to stealth rock too, but that was just a minor flaw in a good Pokemon.
Vullaby is not just Defog. Vullaby has stupidly good defenses, a good typing, a movepool that accomplishes exactly what it needs, and an ability that's good for defense. Defog is just one of the options that Vullaby has, it can also run a whirlwind set which checks essentially every set up sweeper. Zigzagoon cannot OHKO a healthy Vullaby with +6 extremespeed, Scraggy needs to get up to +3 on its heaviest attacking set (236+) to have a 6.3% chance to OHKO with Ice Punch, and +2 Pawniard can only 2HKO with iron head. In return, Vullaby can whirlwind every single one of them out, making Zigzagoon essentially dead weight for the rest of the match, wasting the time you spent setting up scraggy, and (assuming that pawniard switched in and caught a defog) causing hazards to go down for a relatively minor HP cost. Roost makes Vullaby surprisingly long lived, and with a buffed Knock Off, it can provide support for the rest of your team, even after Vullaby goes down. Vullaby does require some support, but it's usually support that most teams provide anyways.
Trubbish is not garbage, but it's certainly not a fantastic, A-rank Pokemon. It has a notable niche of absorbing Knock Off, and being able to set down hazards, which are both very nice. However, it is not only walled by Misdreavus, but by every ghost with the exception of Pumpkaboo and Phantump, and virtually every poison type. Yes, that includes Gastly. In addition, Trubbish is prone to being "revenge killed" by abra, and, if it gets a free switch in, Diglett can trap and OHKO it. Drilbur, as well, can both OHKO with Earthquake and also spin away any hazards Trubbish sets up. Trubbish is absolutely a good answer to Pawniard, and has its niche, but has flaws that ultimately prevent it from A rank.
Unlike what you said, Ponyta actually can get past Chinchou - both of the sets on its analysis by
Vullaby is not just Defog. Vullaby has stupidly good defenses, a good typing, a movepool that accomplishes exactly what it needs, and an ability that's good for defense. Defog is just one of the options that Vullaby has, it can also run a whirlwind set which checks essentially every set up sweeper. Zigzagoon cannot OHKO a healthy Vullaby with +6 extremespeed, Scraggy needs to get up to +3 on its heaviest attacking set (236+) to have a 6.3% chance to OHKO with Ice Punch, and +2 Pawniard can only 2HKO with iron head. In return, Vullaby can whirlwind every single one of them out, making Zigzagoon essentially dead weight for the rest of the match, wasting the time you spent setting up scraggy, and (assuming that pawniard switched in and caught a defog) causing hazards to go down for a relatively minor HP cost. Roost makes Vullaby surprisingly long lived, and with a buffed Knock Off, it can provide support for the rest of your team, even after Vullaby goes down. Vullaby does require some support, but it's usually support that most teams provide anyways.
Trubbish is not garbage, but it's certainly not a fantastic, A-rank Pokemon. It has a notable niche of absorbing Knock Off, and being able to set down hazards, which are both very nice. However, it is not only walled by Misdreavus, but by every ghost with the exception of Pumpkaboo and Phantump, and virtually every poison type. Yes, that includes Gastly. In addition, Trubbish is prone to being "revenge killed" by abra, and, if it gets a free switch in, Diglett can trap and OHKO it. Drilbur, as well, can both OHKO with Earthquake and also spin away any hazards Trubbish sets up. Trubbish is absolutely a good answer to Pawniard, and has its niche, but has flaws that ultimately prevent it from A rank.
Well generally you won't try to sweep against a perfectly healthy vullaby and hjk does more with scraggy so no reason to use ice punch.
Also I don't understand your point with trubbish. It's purpose is to set spikes and wall every fighting type in the tier. It does that impeccably and all you did was show it has counters. Also more than half those counters are easily beaten by pursuit which you can put on your team, and trubbish can easily run thief or dark pulse to hurt them. The only things that really stop it are drilbur and diglett, and while there are no real solutions for diglett, drilbur can be dealt with team support.
Whoa whoa whoa, don't hate. Trubbish is still an amazing poke in the current meta. Meditite, practically the only Fighter that can beat it, is banned, and Krow is one of the few physical attackers that had a chance to OHKO the tresh bag (thats right, it didn't even guaranteed an OHKO on something that didn't run Eviolite.)
So your main argument is that quite the number of pokes wall it/easily kill it. You put down 4 main types: Ghost, Ground, Psychic, and Poison. However, when you're only effectively beaten by 4 out of the 17 (iirc) types in the game, along with beating 3 of the most threatening types: Fighting, Dark, and Fairy, you have quite the amazing typing/good movepool. Of course it's going to lose to Psychic types and Ground types, just like Mienfoo loses to Fairy types and Flying types, that's not the point. It can do something virtually no other pokemon can do: shut down Mienfoo, Timburr, Croagunk, Pawniard, Houndour, Spritzee, and Snubbull AND set up Spikes extremely reliably. That is an amazing niche, more that enough to bring it to A.
However, like every poke, Trubbish does have its problems. It can't beat the aforementioned Ghosts, Psychics, Grounds, and Poisons. Now, let's see how many pokes from each group can actually beat it.
Ghosts: Misdreavus, Gastly
Psychics: Abra, Wynaut
Grounds: Drilbur, Diglett
Poisons: Foongus, Croagunk, Trubbish
...
That's it?????? 9 amazing viable pokemon to take on Trubbish? Or can we go further. I want to look particularly at the Poison group and see their 1v1 match-ups vs Trubbish.
Foongus: Stall War. Both have reliable recovery. I don't have access to the Calc, so I'm going to assume it doesn't 2HKO (which it very well might). Anyways, Trubbish outspeeds and can easily set up Spikes. Foongus spores and it proceeds to hit Trubbish with tickling moves. Once Trubbish wakes up, it can set down the two other layers of Spikes. Foongus is Trubbish's Spike fodder, letting it get at least one layer down easily, all three if it stays in. Foongus can only hit it with pathetically weak moves. We haven't even mentioned how much damage Gunk Shot does to Foongus ( I would think 2HKO, but whatever). Not something I would call walling.
Croagunk: Again, Spike Fodder. However, Trubbish easily wins this match-up 1v1 if it really wants to. Croagunk can't touch it. At all. Though Trubbish does poor damage as well, Croagunk doesn't have reliable recovery meaning it easily winns this match-up. It can even set-up Spikes in Croa's face if it wants to. Again, doesn't wall.
Trubbish: Spike spamming, yay.
So basically all the Poisons are knocked out, but it still does its amaZing niche effectively, and with 6 real answers .-.
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Shaymin :D you misunderstand me. I didn't mean that that was all that beat Trubbish, but that those types in general wall/beat Trubbish. Obviously much more of the tier is also able to stop Trubbish. I meant that being extremely vulnurable to 4 types, two of which wall Trubbish across virtually all members. And yes, when I say all members, I mean almost every single pokemon of that type. In particular, when I was speaking of poison types, I instantly thought of Tentacool, who anybody would say is in general not very good. However, it is the perfect answer to Trubbish. Drain Punch only hurts Trubbish due to Liquid Ooze, Gunk Shot, besides being inaccurate, is resisted, and Tentacool has rapid spin to remove hazards.
Trubbish absolutely is good, hence why I said that it wasn't garbage. It just isn't fantastically good and able to accomplish its job under virtually any circumstances. It's one of the best at what it does, but requires fairly heavy/specialized team support, which is why I believe it should remain B rank. Pursuit is fairly specialized team support.
Also Dark Pulse is a bad coverage idea, considering that Trubbish not only has 40 base special attack, but at that point you're forced to either run a speed lowing nature, or have a dark pulse that does virtually nothing, although Thief is a decent, hidden power like, coverage move, although it does force you to run Eviolite rather than Berry Juice.
Trubbish absolutely is good, hence why I said that it wasn't garbage. It just isn't fantastically good and able to accomplish its job under virtually any circumstances. It's one of the best at what it does, but requires fairly heavy/specialized team support, which is why I believe it should remain B rank. Pursuit is fairly specialized team support.
Also Dark Pulse is a bad coverage idea, considering that Trubbish not only has 40 base special attack, but at that point you're forced to either run a speed lowing nature, or have a dark pulse that does virtually nothing, although Thief is a decent, hidden power like, coverage move, although it does force you to run Eviolite rather than Berry Juice.
Havent posted in here in a good minute:
Scraggy: This mon may have a new enemy in Fairies but dont discount him. He still has the right tools to run through this meta unopposed. Setting up isnt as easy as it was last gen though because there's a lt less he can set up upon. But within that Scraggs is a great mon despite its shortcoming. Off.DD Scrag is the more dangerous set of them all since it would hit 21 Spe after 1 DD and proceed to destroy everything. Scarf Scrag does a similiar job but with HJK spam. A rank for this mon
Bunnelby: Although Bun is OHKOing a lot of threats, it's still hitting 16 Spe with canbe easily revenged, and has poor coverage options like having to run Thief to beat Ghosts. LO Bunny hits hard enough but isnt really all that fast while Scarf Bunny is fast but move locked, plus you'll have ot opt out of either Return/Quick Attack for U-Turn as in LO can freely run one or the other imo. Lets leave at A Rank
Chinchou: A very versitile mon in surprise factor in abilities. Chou is able to stop most flying pokes cold with it's bulk and resists. Not many birds can safely come in/stay in on Chou without eating SE Elec move. Scarf Chou is notable for quickly bringing down threats to the opponents teams and still taking a hit. Evio RestTalk is the epitome of bulky since it can rest off the damage it recieves and status it's opponents (unless you're running Volt Switch/Thunderbolt/Heal Bell > Discharge) Speaking of Heal Bell, it also get that so Chou has a lot of tools. A rank for this mon
Doduo: see Shaymin :D
EDIT: thought about it and i dont really see Scraggs as S
Scraggy: This mon may have a new enemy in Fairies but dont discount him. He still has the right tools to run through this meta unopposed. Setting up isnt as easy as it was last gen though because there's a lt less he can set up upon. But within that Scraggs is a great mon despite its shortcoming. Off.DD Scrag is the more dangerous set of them all since it would hit 21 Spe after 1 DD and proceed to destroy everything. Scarf Scrag does a similiar job but with HJK spam. A rank for this mon
Bunnelby: Although Bun is OHKOing a lot of threats, it's still hitting 16 Spe with canbe easily revenged, and has poor coverage options like having to run Thief to beat Ghosts. LO Bunny hits hard enough but isnt really all that fast while Scarf Bunny is fast but move locked, plus you'll have ot opt out of either Return/Quick Attack for U-Turn as in LO can freely run one or the other imo. Lets leave at A Rank
Chinchou: A very versitile mon in surprise factor in abilities. Chou is able to stop most flying pokes cold with it's bulk and resists. Not many birds can safely come in/stay in on Chou without eating SE Elec move. Scarf Chou is notable for quickly bringing down threats to the opponents teams and still taking a hit. Evio RestTalk is the epitome of bulky since it can rest off the damage it recieves and status it's opponents (unless you're running Volt Switch/Thunderbolt/Heal Bell > Discharge) Speaking of Heal Bell, it also get that so Chou has a lot of tools. A rank for this mon
Doduo: see Shaymin :D
EDIT: thought about it and i dont really see Scraggs as S
Scraggy: A
Scraggy is an awesomely useful lizard with access to powerful moves, great abilities and a set up option in Dragon Dance which lets it turn into a deadly sweeper that can annihilate teams. It has enough bulk with Eviolite to survive a few hits - provided they aren't Fairy-type. Few things in LC can walk away healthy after a +1 Hi Jump Kick and it's Knock Off is completely terrifying too.
Scraggy is one of the best physical sweepers in the tier. However, it simply doesn't have the ability to be thrown on ever team, it isn't impossible to stop, and it is beaten badly by some opponents. In my opinion, it does everything it sets out to, but it's missing the versatility or sheer power of S-Rank Pokemon.
Scraggy is an awesomely useful lizard with access to powerful moves, great abilities and a set up option in Dragon Dance which lets it turn into a deadly sweeper that can annihilate teams. It has enough bulk with Eviolite to survive a few hits - provided they aren't Fairy-type. Few things in LC can walk away healthy after a +1 Hi Jump Kick and it's Knock Off is completely terrifying too.
Scraggy is one of the best physical sweepers in the tier. However, it simply doesn't have the ability to be thrown on ever team, it isn't impossible to stop, and it is beaten badly by some opponents. In my opinion, it does everything it sets out to, but it's missing the versatility or sheer power of S-Rank Pokemon.
no comments on chinchou till i read more arguments (or play this meta more)
cottonee is deffo A, it checks so many things beats all fighters, prio encore is such a threat, no set-up sweeper can really risk setting up if cottonee is around.
porygon is deffo A being one of the most reliable misdreavus checks is amazing right now. twave annoys mienfoo and non shedskin scraggy, meditite obvs isn't aroudn the threaten it. timburr basically hard walls but timburr gets hard walled by a lot of other shit
vullaby... pawniard beats it easily and it's kinda weak, but it's still the most reliable defogger and can run heatwave for pawn if you really care about defog. i'd happily keep it in A. kinda 4mss though but w/e
trubbish i'd keep in B, many things can take advantage of it. yes it's a great fighting wall but all ghost/ground/psychic pokemon can wreck it
staryu is kinda bad... too weak and not bulky enough... easily spinblocked by missy
zig is amazing only need a tiny bit of support to sweep late game, i'd say B is cool
agreeing with what you said about onix.
will post more stuff later or something
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