• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Resource LC Viability Rankings

Status
Not open for further replies.
A-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the LC metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits.

B-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
Torchic doesnt require extensive support. Its not like Amaura, where it is forced out by the top 2 pokemon. Its not Caterpie where it is outclassed in every way. Its not even Sewaddle, where its only slightly outcalssed. Yeah its fire typed. not the best type. Anything that Torchic might "need" such as dwebble getting rid of, or rocks might needing gone, is almost always covered by simple team structure. You dont go out of your way to put defog in so you can have torchic on your team. You dont go out oof your way to counter dwebble. Good teams have that anyway, or force the opponent with pressure to not set up. Torchic literally requires no "support" other than a pokemon to pass to. You can win games with a simple Meditite+ Torchic core.

merritt said:
I'm not going to get into an argument with you where we just put down each other and call each other's ideas stupid for stupid's sake. First off, many of the calculations on the damage calculator are horrible, and shouldn't be used. For example, the damage calculator uses Dwebble as a Shell Smasher and Chinchou as a "fast" special attacker.

I never said that the ladder is the best way to judge things. When we look at the ladder, you have to sift through the pile of awfulness, because otherwise Cubone ends up being the best thing since sliced bread. The same goes for moves on the usage stats- just because a move is used often does not mean it is good, because then we have to get into a guessing game of "is this a competent player or do they use hydro pump on resttalk chinchou?"
Well considering I'm pretty sure I did the 1760 stats (or w/e the stats where at the time of making), they are reliable and not just some randoms throwing things together. Also take in mind that the playerbase is small to begin with, and honestly maybe 30-40 people ladder, as opposed to OU's 400+ (rough estimates not exacts). ALSO take in mind that instead of picking and choosing what I calced I literally picked the strongest move with max SpA. If i didnt then its because I just made almost a 2 hour post that I didn;t want to proof read. Or if said pokemon doesnt always use that move or set, I did another calc to see what would happen with a weaker move, or a more bulky set. If you actually took the time to notice every single calc you would see that (especially in the fletchling, scraggy, and others calcs). As to the damage calculator being horrible, I would think that max attack dwebble would benefit your point, and the speed doesnt really matter either, as Torchic isnt attacking it ever, so bulk isnt noteworthy. I fail to see any point in that statement.

merritt said:
This still applies to Torchic. Remember, B-rank is "Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. " That is not a trash tier, it is just for things that have to have a team that supports them instead of being able to independently support the team.
Except it does support the team. By itself. With minimal support. What dont you get that Torchic's sole role is to baton pass? it has no counters due to its nature. There is no single pokemon that you send in when you see it, like you would for like Pawniard (hint, timburr is a counter). You have moves, like Whirlwind or something, which isnt exactly common in the metagame.

You're assuming the Torchic player is good, so lets assume the player facing torchic is good as well.
Like how no smart player would have Torchic set up on Chinchou/Slowpoke, no smart player would blindly attack it while it gets faster. Out comes Chinchou. Thats not good for Torchic. It'll either die or risk having its receiver get burned or paralyzed. Same with Slowpoke. Vullaby will whirlwind. Murkrow will decimate the receiver, or T-Wave or Haze. Tirtouga will set up on it. Misdreavus can set up or burn the receiver. These pokemon, according to the Feb usage stats, have a ranking of 7, 24, 17, 2, 13, and 5, respectively. Basically, if any of these pokemon appear on the enemy's team, then you need to be dedicated to removing them, as you've stated yourself, Torchic is not a wall, so it'll just die or have its strategy flopped if you can't handle it. That means it needs a good deal of support TO support.

THAT said, again, I think torchic COULD be considered for A, since its so easy to boost. Its a thin, thin, line though. One stumble and its all over.
The thing with the opponent switching out, is that it simply means that Torchic just got a free +1 speed, or even a +2/+1. which next turn you simply baton pass out. Meaning that still, Torchic did its job, in a reliable, efficient manner. I did say that Tirtouga and Slowpoke are bad examples quoting Merritt's post and in my post, because of those exact reasons. Vullaby runs Whirlwind around 8% of the time. Even if you burn the reciever with Misdreavus, it might not be a physical attacker. You can still run something just for the speed boost, as I've seen random crap like Lileep done. This is beside the fact that Cursechik poops on all of those anyway, as it doesnt care about paralysis. Also, again, those pokemon are common. Meaning that often or not, teams will be already built around stopping them naturally. Theres nothing extra it really needs.
 
Abra, Amaura, Azurill, Bellsprout, Buneary, Cacnea, Chimchar, Cleffa, Cottonee, Cubchoo, Darumaka, Gulpin, Hoppip, Ledyba, Machop, Mankey, Mime Jr., Minccino, Oshawott, Pichu, Poliwag, Psyduck, Purrloin, Ralts, Seel, Shelmet, Slakoth, Spheal, Sunkern, Togepi, Wooper, Wynaut

These Pokemon get encore. There's also a whole lot more in the tier that get taunt, these ones to be exact.

Abra, Aipom, Archen, Axew, Bidoof, Binacle, Chespin, Chimchar, Chingling, Corphish, Cottonee, Croagunk, Darumaka, Deino, Drowzee, Duskull, Fletchling, Frillish, Froakie, Gastly, Glameow, Gothita, Grimer, Houndour, Inkay, Koffing, Larvitar, Litleo, Litwick, Mankey, Meowth, Mienfoo, Mime Jr., Noibat, Nosepass, Onix, Oshawott, Panpour, Pansage, Pansear, Pawniard, Pidove, Poochyena, Purrloin, Ralts, Rattata, Sandile, Scraggy, Shieldon, Shuppet, Skorupi, Snivy, Snubbull, Spoink, Stunky, Teddiursa, Tepig, Timburr, Vanillite, Voltorb, Vullaby, Woobat, Zorua, Zubat

Every single one of those Pokemon are able to completely shut down torchic by using either move when torchic isn't using protect. Do most of them run either move? No. That's the problem, it's completely unexpected and can ruin your strategy.

Notable users include Cottonee, Murkrow, and Purrloin, all of whom also have prankster. In addition, Fletchling, Croagunk, Gastly, Mienfoo, Scraggy, Pawniard, and Vullaby are all perfectly viable.

As for percentage of move use, that has absolutely no bearing on the conversation. If a Pokemon becomes a problem/any sort of threat that can consistently cause you to lose games, then you'll run the move that shuts them down, correct?

Lastly, Inkay can murder you in so many ways. Trick Room, then reverse your boosts as you pass away, neutering whoever you send out. (This is a joke.)

I'm not going to reply anymore today, goodnight.
 
Torchic doesnt require extensive support. Its not like Amaura, where it is forced out by the top 2 pokemon. Its not Caterpie where it is outclassed in every way. Its not even Sewaddle, where its only slightly outcalssed. Yeah its fire typed. not the best type. Anything that Torchic might "need" such as dwebble getting rid of, or rocks might needing gone, is almost always covered by simple team structure. You dont go out of your way to put defog in so you can have torchic on your team. You dont go out oof your way to counter dwebble. Good teams have that anyway, or force the opponent with pressure to not set up. Torchic literally requires no "support" other than a pokemon to pass to. You can win games with a simple Meditite+ Torchic core.

Well considering I'm pretty sure I did the 1760 stats (or w/e the stats where at the time of making), they are reliable and not just some randoms throwing things together. Also take in mind that the playerbase is small to begin with, and honestly maybe 30-40 people ladder, as opposed to OU's 400+ (rough estimates not exacts). ALSO take in mind that instead of picking and choosing what I calced I literally picked the strongest move with max SpA. If i didnt then its because I just made almost a 2 hour post that I didn;t want to proof read. Or if said pokemon doesnt always use that move or set, I did another calc to see what would happen with a weaker move, or a more bulky set. If you actually took the time to notice every single calc you would see that (especially in the fletchling, scraggy, and others calcs). As to the damage calculator being horrible, I would think that max attack dwebble would benefit your point, and the speed doesnt really matter either, as Torchic isnt attacking it ever, so bulk isnt noteworthy. I fail to see any point in that statement.

Except it does support the team. By itself. With minimal support. What dont you get that Torchic's sole role is to baton pass? it has no counters due to its nature. There is no single pokemon that you send in when you see it, like you would for like Pawniard (hint, timburr is a counter). You have moves, like Whirlwind or something, which isnt exactly common in the metagame.

The thing with the opponent switching out, is that it simply means that Torchic just got a free +1 speed, or even a +2/+1. which next turn you simply baton pass out. Meaning that still, Torchic did its job, in a reliable, efficient manner. I did say that Tirtouga and Slowpoke are bad examples quoting Merritt's post and in my post, because of those exact reasons. Vullaby runs Whirlwind around 8% of the time. Even if you burn the reciever with Misdreavus, it might not be a physical attacker. You can still run something just for the speed boost, as I've seen random crap like Lileep done. This is beside the fact that Cursechik poops on all of those anyway, as it doesnt care about paralysis. Also, again, those pokemon are common. Meaning that often or not, teams will be already built around stopping them naturally. Theres nothing extra it really needs.


You can't rely on something being not common, because if you do encounter it, it'll ruin everything. As oppossed to pokemon who can be effective even if their counters are present on the enemy's team, like Mienfoo. The only reason people don't run these things is because Torchic is a pokemon who gets glazed over often. If it were to become more common, the amount of Hazekrows and Whirlwind vullabys will rise, making torchic less effective.

Another thing to consider is the effectiveness of Baton Pass. It is great for utility, but even a +2/+1 Meditite (the most common receiver iirc) can still be outsped by Misdreavus and Murkrow (bullet punch KOs neither). Fletchling can always outspeed. Even at +2 spritzee and honedge can check it and cottonee can cripple it. Thats a lot of pokemon, whose presence is enough to threaten the entire strategy. One RNG hiccup or mispredict can ruin everything, as oppossed to the support of hazard setters like Dwebble, who only needs one turn and has enough to threaten defoggers or spinners. I don't think i've ever sat on the fence so hard.
 
reply to Merritt's long post about all the threats it can't switch into. Torchic needs 1 Pokemon to set up on vs. a team. that's it. What Torchic can do is force another Pokemon to actually become a liability. Now the opposing team has to be very careful switching in their Spritzee into Mienfoo/Timburr because Torchic can switch in, get a free boost as Spritzee switches out, protect, then pass. If you don't have roar/whirlwind/haze users, you are screwed. Or switching Larvesta into Meditite. Or Ponyta into Pawniard. etc... and even if the opposing team doesn't have something it can switch into, you can still come in on a revenge, slow u-turn/volt switch, and set up on loads of things... Mienfoo, Timburr etc..........


Also, I wouldn't switch Murkrow in on any of the S or A rank Pokemon, I'm not claiming it to be B-rank.

blizzardy said:
Basically, if any of these pokemon appear on the enemy's team, then you need to be dedicated to removing them, as you've stated yourself, Torchic is not a wall, so it'll just die or have its strategy flopped if you can't handle it. That means it needs a good deal of support TO support.

erm... not really, again, you just need 1 Pokemon to be able to set up on and its done its job. Going to Chinchou or Slowpoke won't help as it can Curse/Swords Dance as you switch your Mienfoo out into Chinchou, Protect and it's either +2,+2 or +1,+1,+1. Then it could quite possibly be GG.

Torchic doesn't really need support, except the support of receivers. It can switch in, do it's job and then it's gg. The only thing, in my opinion, which stops it from being A rank, is match-up dependant. If the opposing team does have Haze/Whirlwind/Roar, it can't do anything

wobbyble said:
So yeah, it can win you a game single-handed, but has a notable chance to make you lose off of not being able to get a good pass, definitely B tier material.
This quote from wobby is the one that sums up my thoughts tbh. It's B rank, but the people arguing for it being B rank are arguing badly...
 
This quote from wobby is the one that sums up my thoughts tbh. It's B rank, but the people arguing for it being B rank are arguing badly...
ha yeah I can admit to that.

My point was that pokemon like slowpoke and chinchou can still cripple the receiver. I guess I didn't articulate that well enough. I agree with you that there are still a lot of pokemon that can handle Meditite or another pokemon after the boosts, even if they are uncommon.
 
discussion was waning a bit so I'm making some changes:

everyone bar a couple of people wanted larvesta in B, so that can move
torchic is staying B
cottonee has overwhelming support for A
shieldon can stay D
mantyke and shellder are being relegated to C, cos literally no-one argued for them staying B
darumaka is C
lileep had 100% support for B

Slowpoke, Drilbur and Honedge were pretty equal in arguments, so everyone argue more
 
I think Slowpoke should go to B. Its a great pokemon in terms of its stats, movepool, and ability, but its typing is what is holding it back. There are only a few notable pokemon that Slowpoke can reliably wall. Not meditite because its usually seen with Thunderpunch, and not Mienfoo since it can punish it with knock off and u-turn out for momentum and super effective damage. The only S/A ranked pokemon I think it can reliably wall are Ponyta and Timburr, and the latter can Knock Off and get boosted by T-Wave.
Slowpoke is nevertheless a great pokemon, but its doesn't check enough pokemon to warrant A. Especially when Spritzee and Chinchou exist.
 
I think Slowpoke should go to B. Its a great pokemon in terms of its stats, movepool, and ability, but its typing is what is holding it back. There are only a few notable pokemon that Slowpoke can reliably wall. Not meditite because its usually seen with Thunderpunch, and not Mienfoo since it can punish it with knock off and u-turn out for momentum and super effective damage. The only S/A ranked pokemon I think it can reliably wall are Ponyta and Timburr, and the latter can Knock Off and get boosted by T-Wave.
Slowpoke is nevertheless a great pokemon, but its doesn't check enough pokemon to warrant A. Especially when Spritzee and Chinchou exist.

I really have to agree with this, because after the Gligar ban Slowpoke has become so much worse, not only does it no longer wall Gligar, which is one of the biggest reasons it was A rank, but it also no longer walls Meditite due to the fact it can afford to run T-punch. Its two biggest niches are pretty much gone because of this. It also struggles to take on fighting types thanks to the knock off buff, and while it will usually still win 1 v 1 it has a hard time switching in and it will usually be left so crippled it is useless for the rest of the match. Yes Regenerator helps to fix this, but when you are sitting at 50% health with no eviolite, there aren't a lot of pokemon that don't solidly 2hko or 1hko you, meaning that while regaining health is theoretically as easy as switching in then out, this is a lot easier said than done (you usually have to sack a pokemon). Spritzee is undoubtedly a better response to fighters and especially Meditite because relistically Poison Jab is a really terrible coverage move outside of spritzee, unlike Thunder Punch which nails flying types and random other waters barring Chincou (macle's Poliwag can attest to that ;) ). So while Slowpoke is definitely a decent pokemon, it doesn't deserve to be A rank because it does have notable flaws and needs some team support to be effective at its role.

Also I support Poliwag for some rank (not sure if C or B is more fitting), relying on hypnosis is kind of shitty, and being fast means most pokemon burn 1 sleep turn before you even belly drum (macle can also attest to this ;) ). But when it sets up, it has 19 speed and good defensive typing to help ensure a sweep, so it is definitely a threat that can't be dismissed.
 
Bronzor C -> D
Pumpkaboo C -> D
Phantump C -> D
Skiddo C -> D
Gothita D -> C

Some propositions.

Bronzor is now weak to Dark and Ghost, especially Knock Off and basically walls nothing anymore.
Pumpkaboo, Phantump and Skiddo just don't do well in the current meta and idk why ras/treecko put them C in the first place
Goth has a notable niche and can use taunt to remove quite a lot of walls. Yes, it's scarf set it meh cos it's so weak, but imo it's best used as a wall-remover with taunt.


Also added Poliwag, Binacle and Omanyte to C. I believe Omanyte is much more viable than Clamperl, basically due to Acrobatics resist. Clamperl can't run evio anyway, so still takes a ton from Mach Punch/Vwave. Omanyte also has Earth Power for better coverage. Binacle has a niche of being able to sweep past Ferro/Lileep/Porygon/Lickitung/Munchlax with Cross Chop. No other Shell Smasher can do this. Bellywag is just a good late game sweeper with 19 speed given the right support. Obviously I just added these in without consultation so if you disagree post :)
 
Bronzor Pumpkaboo Skiddo and Phantump are all trash, useless, and outclassed. Send them away.

Gothita is okay and actually has a niche. C is good.
 
Quick Thoughts:

Pumpkaboo: Weird ass hybrid of Missy and Cottonee. Very common weaknesses and no recovery outside of Leech Seed don't help either (You can run Rock Slide to confuse Murkrow and such, but why?) D-rank seems appropriate. Niche as a trick room setter, but who uses trick room anyways lol. (Yeah to be honest I like this thing, though it's just not good in the meta, sorry)

Skiddo: Pretty okay honestly, though 4mss and common weaknesses do kind of hurt it. Mixed here, to be honest.

Bronzor: Everything it walls is walled better by other mons, and it's very predictable. Not to mention it's common weaknesses.

Phantump: Pumpkaboo with okay recovery and reliable STAB. Knock Off ruins this thing's life. (Just reminding you if you're weak to both Dark AND Flying you won't go anywhere in this meta)

Gothita: Faces competition with Wynaut, but has decent offensive presence, so I can see this moving up.

Yeah, just excuse my rambling. Honestly though Binacle was the probably the only mon in the Frogs that didn't need to be there (It actually has niches over Tirtourga).
 
Last edited:
Pumpkaboo, much as I love this guy, isn't viable enough to warrant C rank. It could run a rest-talk set on the Super Size, or a "speedy" attacker for the Small Size, but it's too weak to common threats in the meta, and although it's not directly outclassed due to the scarcity of ghost types, it's not able to fit on most teams.

Phantump has only one niche, oran berry harvest, which would be much better if berry juice was banned, but it's just not good enough now. Most moves are able to 2HKO, due to relatively poor defenses, and it's not capable of doing much damage with its lackluster (or in this case a literal lack of for ghost) STAB. D-rank this dead child stump

Bronzor has the usability of rain dance and being a wall to teams that have forgotten their Pawniard, Murkrow, Mienfoo, Misdreavus, Timburr, Ponyta, ect. It has good wall stats, but its typing lets it down due to the ubiquity of Knock Off. It's only possibly viable set, that I've seen work, is dual screen setter, and even that sort of role got nerfed with the new usability of defog. D-rank's probably for the best.

Skiddo is a physical grass type. It can run either Horn Leech for recovery or Leaf Blade for more power. It can actually work, although you have to have extremely good prediction skills. By giving it a set of Horn Leech/Leaf Blade, Rock Slide, Brick Break, and Bulk Up/Milk Drink, it can do some decent damage. It has a notable niche, as really the only physical grass type and one that functions outside of sun. It has flaws, yes, but can overcome them, so I believe it should remain C-rank.

Gothita's "offensive" shadow tag. The number of things it can actually beat as a "wall remover" is limited, due to the fact that it has relatively limited defenses.

Spritzee, arguably the best "wall" in the tier, is immune to Taunt, already taking away part of Gothita's use. Other walls are Munchlax, but Gothita fails there too.
36 Atk Munchlax Body Slam vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Gothita: 7-9 (29.1 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Vullaby is barely worth mentioning.
76 Atk Vullaby Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Gothita: 14-18 (58.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Gothita can work, but not particularly wel. It should remain D-rank.
 
Last edited:
Gothita's "offensive" shadow tag. The number of things it can actually beat as a "wall remover" is limited, due to the fact that it has relatively limited defenses.

Spritzee, arguably the best "wall" in the tier, will beat Gothita, taking a decent amount of damage, but it still kills Gothita.
12 SpA Spritzee Moonblast vs. 236 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Gothita: 7-9 (29.1 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
236+ SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 7-10 (25.9 - 37%) -- 82.5% chance to 3HKO

(Note that not only is this statistically impossible (EVs are maxed for the sake of calculations), but also that Moonblast has a good chance to lower special attack. Since Gothita will use taunt on turn 1, Spritzee will win if rocks are up. In addition, Gothita would far prefer to run physically defensive, and with 88+ special attack, Psychic has a 0% chance to 3HKO.)

Gothita wouldn't ever be trying to trap Spritzee anyway. Taunt doesn't work on it due to Spritzee having Aroma Veil.

Edit: Merritt editted his post so ignore the top part of this post. It seems to me that in order for Gothita to trap any walls, they would have to be knocked off already. I think Gothita deserves C rank because it can do its job, it just requires a lot of team support to do so.
 
Last edited:
I feel like surskit deserves more love.He's the best sticky webber in a tier when spinning\defogging is quite uncommon after gligar's ban.He has pretty good speed,not so pitiful offenses,it can set up rain dance to do more damage or run protect and sash to grant a 100% sure sticky web.SURSKIT FOR B RANK imho.I tried geodude also,and i feel he deserves C RANK. He has the unique combination of sturdy,prioriy (a thing that other sturdymons can only dream of) and stab edgequake,making him a solid SR setter.Shitty defensive type means almost nothing thanks to sturdy,if you haven't hazards on your side of the field.
 
I feel like surskit deserves more love.He's the best sticky webber in a tier when spinning\defogging is quite uncommon after gligar's ban.He has pretty good speed,not so pitiful offenses,it can set up rain dance to do more damage or run protect and sash to grant a 100% sure sticky web.SURSKIT FOR B RANK imho.I tried geodude also,and i feel he deserves C RANK. He has the unique combination of sturdy,prioriy (a thing that other sturdymons can only dream of) and stab edgequake,making him a solid SR setter.Shitty defensive type means almost nothing thanks to sturdy,if you haven't hazards on your side of the field.

Tirtouga literally does everything geodude can do better with one less 4x weakness
 
Where is Teddiursa? I've used him a fair bit, and he makes for a pretty formidable late game sweeper. He might be a bit outclassed, but his Facade hits like a truck and he hits 21 Speed after poisoning, making him difficult to revenge kill outside of Choice Scarf - particularly if priority users are gone. He's deserving of C-rank.
 
I feel like surskit deserves more love.He's the best sticky webber in a tier when spinning\defogging is quite uncommon after gligar's ban.He has pretty good speed,not so pitiful offenses,it can set up rain dance to do more damage or run protect and sash to grant a 100% sure sticky web.SURSKIT FOR B RANK imho.I tried geodude also,and i feel he deserves C RANK. He has the unique combination of sturdy,prioriy (a thing that other sturdymons can only dream of) and stab edgequake,making him a solid SR setter.Shitty defensive type means almost nothing thanks to sturdy,if you haven't hazards on your side of the field.
The problem with Surskit is that it's Surskit. It's a weak bug type that happens to have unique typing, and any decent player is going to have an answer for hazards. And if you don't get that web up, you're playing 5v6. C rank fits Surskit just fine.

And sorry, but Geodude is not cut out for C rank. Onix is way better at setting SR due to his much higher speed, and Tirtouga is a better priority user. Geodude has no viable niche.
 
Where is Teddiursa? I've used him a fair bit, and he makes for a pretty formidable late game sweeper. He might be a bit outclassed, but his Facade hits like a truck and he hits 21 Speed after poisoning, making him difficult to revenge kill outside of Choice Scarf - particularly if priority users are gone. He's deserving of C-rank.

I have to agree that Teddiursa deserves C-rank. It has a notable niche of being able to run a pseudo-scarf set with the ability to switch moves, and can decimate some teams if it gets a swords dance up. It does have its flaws in bad bulk, and a minor case of 4MSS (It wants Protect to let it set up the orb, and swords dance to let it sweep, and facade because facade, and close combat for rock and steel types, and crunch for ghosts, and sometimes Earthquake), but it does have a notable niche.

On a different note, is Riolu still deserving of C-rank? I feel that it lost its niche with the loss of priority copycat roar, and now is simply a below average fighting type with prankster. It now only has the "niche" of priority swagger, which really is more of a gimmick than a niche. It should fall to D-rank.
 
I have to agree that Teddiursa deserves C-rank. It has a notable niche of being able to run a pseudo-scarf set with the ability to switch moves, and can decimate some teams if it gets a swords dance up. It does have its flaws in bad bulk, and a minor case of 4MSS (It wants Protect to let it set up the orb, and swords dance to let it sweep, and facade because facade, and close combat for rock and steel types, and crunch for ghosts, and sometimes Earthquake), but it does have a notable niche.

On a different note, is Riolu still deserving of C-rank? I feel that it lost its niche with the loss of priority copycat roar, and now is simply a below average fighting type with prankster. It now only has the "niche" of priority swagger, which really is more of a gimmick than a niche. It should fall to D-rank.
At least in my experience, Riolu's niche was never Prankster Copycat Roar in Little Cup. To quote the Gen 5 Riolu analysis: "Copycat is the crux of the set, giving Riolu a myriad of options to harass the opponent's team. When combined with Protect, Copycat allows Riolu to revenge kill a variety of threats without taking damage."
The analysis only mentions Roar in the overview, it's not on the set. Prankster Copycat is Riolu's biggest niche, and one no other Fighting type fills. I think that allows it to remain in C-Rank.
 
Drilbur for A, imo. It's arguably THE best spinner in the meta, being able to spin on any SR setter except Lileep (but no spinner wins vs lileep apart from lolnorith), along with the fact nearly no spinblocker beats it (missy is 2HKOed by earthquake, gastly is OHKOed, drifloon is decimated by rock slide, only frillish can somewhat threaten it but frillish a shit). It can even sweep teams with a Swords Dance, along with being able to beat fucking meditite 1-on-1 without resisting drain punch just shows his incredible bulk (survives mixkrow brave bird, too). People may say that defog made it lose its niche, but it's risky as fuck in this meta, with pawniard being everywhere. speaking of pawniard, drilbur checks it, since it's not OHKOed by +2 sucker punch and OHKOes with earthquake.
 
On a different note, is Riolu still deserving of C-rank? I feel that it lost its niche with the loss of priority copycat roar, and now is simply a below average fighting type with prankster. It now only has the "niche" of priority swagger, which really is more of a gimmick than a niche. It should fall to D-rank.

Ew...

Why not Protect/Drain Punch/Crunch/Copycat?

EDIT SO IM ACTAULLY ADDING ON

Bronzor-D

steel's new neutralies fucked it over. still bulky as hell adn destined to set up sr.

Pumpkaboo- D

everyone who knows my sand waterfall team knows that super pumpkaboo is one of the bulkiest physically. it might be outclassed but it can certainly absorb a knock off or an acrobatics so it can burn it's targets (im running max hp/def btw so that's why) It's got a movefool full of good shit but it's awfully slow and shitty abilities... well frisk helps sometimes... there are handy af resists tho and for being weak to knock off, it completely shuts down non-timburr knock offers. And sometimes Vullaby.
(moving on)

Phantump C or D

This one is an anomaly. Natural Cure + Rest is strong and acess to Horn Leech but iunno i've never used this mon before. Chillarmy knows it better than I.


Skiddo D

im sure BU/grass stab/milk drink/filler is good but slow grass types are terribly outclassed :(

Gothita C

Y U NO GET TRICK + SHADOW TAG
..ahem other than that, offensive scarf trapper + knock off support is strong at nabbing kills
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top