You never tiered this.
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Resource LC Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Corporal Levi
- Start date
- Status
You never tiered this.
Just wanted to make a quick nomination of Ekans for C/D rank. its nothing spectacular of course but Coil + Gunk Shot is cool and it really appreciates meditite being gone. Can set up on fighters and absorb status with Shed Skin, though not having anything to hit Missy reliably sucks. personally i think it's C tier but D is fine.
edit: also speaking of unranked poison types I think Stunky deserves to be ranked too, though i don't have time to make an argument right now
edit: also speaking of unranked poison types I think Stunky deserves to be ranked too, though i don't have time to make an argument right now
Ekans can hit Missy with Sucker Punch if you predict correctly, and it can get Pursuit and Payback
moved: Archen to A cos everyone says so
Wingull to D cos why the fuck not
Skrelp down to D: only 1 post about it but it was just put in C right at the beginning of this thread and i don't think anyone would argue against it
discuss:
ekans
diglett B or A
Stunky - deffo deserves a rank just not sure which
larvesta, pony and houndour still i think (though probs are all gonna be B as it stands)
magnemite
fletchling for S has been brought up though not many good arguments. I believe Fletchling is one of the best Pokemon around right now so I would like to see this discussed in more detail.
Clamperl: B, C or D
Wingull to D cos why the fuck not
Skrelp down to D: only 1 post about it but it was just put in C right at the beginning of this thread and i don't think anyone would argue against it
discuss:
ekans
diglett B or A
Stunky - deffo deserves a rank just not sure which
larvesta, pony and houndour still i think (though probs are all gonna be B as it stands)
magnemite
fletchling for S has been brought up though not many good arguments. I believe Fletchling is one of the best Pokemon around right now so I would like to see this discussed in more detail.
Clamperl: B, C or D
I would not be opposed to Fletchling being S on principle but as I have stated previously, can we read the damn definitions? Fletchling needs loads of support, even if its immensely worthwhile to do so.
Clamperl can be B with minimal support (ie tailwind) it can shit on faces with DST which used to be banned in gen 4.
Diglett is incredible but until recently it was my secret weapon. I wouldn't say it supports the majority of the tier either, just a few.
Clamperl can be B with minimal support (ie tailwind) it can shit on faces with DST which used to be banned in gen 4.
Diglett is incredible but until recently it was my secret weapon. I wouldn't say it supports the majority of the tier either, just a few.
I just read the definitions for S Rank. Did not see the word "suppprt" in it at all. Am I missing something?
Using your words, I'd say this defines Fletchling almost perfectly.
Fletchling has more than a few flaws (hence needing support to get by) like being 100% walled by a lot of Pokemon (Tirtouga, Archen, usually Magnemite, etc). I wouldn't be opposed to S but I don't think it makes sense.
There's an All-Out Attacker set becoming more popular, which beats Tirtouga, and can opt to use HPIce over Grass to beat Archen. Magnemite dies to Overheat if it switches in on an Acro, or gets trapped by the most common partner of Diglett if it switched in on U-turn, though that is "support." I would actually say Fletchling;s flaws are very few, and can easily overcome those flaws with the right prediction in almost every situation. It is by far one of the best mons in the tier right now, it is an extremely good cleaner, sweeper, and revenge-killer; it's probably the best cleaner/revenge-killer in the tier. Also, as you said, it has very high reward exerted by a petty low risk in this metagame:
1) All-Out attacker still loses to Tirtouga unless severely weakened / is Berry Juice variant (which actually sets up on it).
2) Chinchou and Pawniard still beat that.
3) HP Ice doesn't beat Archen which OHKOes with Head Smash / Rock Slide.
4) Overheat is easy to play around and is not reliable enough to get passed Magnemite especially considering Sturdy.
5) 4MSS: if it loses Roost it's not a top tier Pokemon anymore, if it loses Swords Dance I would argue the same. Not using Roost at the very least is risky as fuck because you can (and will, often) come in and do absolutely nothing with no longevity. If there's a Fletchling for S, it's Acro/Roost/U-turn/SD.
I would say it's the best revenge killer etc in the game, but it's not "low risk" and definitely not able to perform a "variety of roles" like Misdreavus (counters/checks, absorbs U-turn, spinblocks, arguably the most powerful sweeper in the game, 19 speed) or Pawniard (checks Misdreavus, STAB 19 Attack Knock Off, Iron Head flinch, Stealth Rocker, Scarfer, Fletchling check, etc).
Fletchling doesn't have to do a variety of roles, however. Seeing as though the definition states one OR the other.
I mostly just find it ironic thatFletchling is, quite honestly, the best pokemon in the metagame right now, even if it requires so much support, and is A rank. Fletchling offense is the best strat right now, and Fletch is only A. But whatever, I mean, it definitely deserved the nomination, and I don't mind taking the bullet at all.
I mostly just find it ironic that
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I agree with Heysup , mainly because Fletchling has a few major flaws, which aren't quite enough to overcome its (admittedly extraordinary) strengths. Fletchling has the priority acrobatics, which makes it a fantastic revenge killer and sweeper, considering that it has a drawback free STAB priority move stronger than Earthquake, but flying, while a good type, isn't fantastic, especially considering that Fletchling has so few coverage options that work off of its attack. Adamant is absolutely the best possible option for Fletchling, making its attack good, but not fantastic, at a solid 15. Its other stats, however, are pitiful. Its defenses are pathetic, especially considering that all seriously competitive Fletchling run either no item or rarely berry juice (because otherwise we have aerial ace or the elusive Fly Fletch). In addition, as a byproduct of running Adamant, Fletchling's speed, which wasn't great in the first place, remains low. While this isn't an issue when you can spam gale wings acrobatics, a problem arises when you run into the electric, steel, or rock types that populate the tier. Relying on Overheat, Hidden Power (Grass/Ice/Ground/whatever-it-is-you're-running), or even just U-turn becomes far less appealing when considering that you're not only launching it off a stat lower than Sunkern's invested stats, but that you're not even going to be hitting them before they hit you first - typically much harder.
Fletchling is absolutely a monstrous threat, easily sweeping teams that are unprepared for it, but it's not consistent enough or strong enough to deserve to go up to S-rank, although it does have an underused niche in providing tailwind support before it goes down, allowing something else that's slowish and powerful to sweep.
Fletchling is absolutely a monstrous threat, easily sweeping teams that are unprepared for it, but it's not consistent enough or strong enough to deserve to go up to S-rank, although it does have an underused niche in providing tailwind support before it goes down, allowing something else that's slowish and powerful to sweep.
Diglett: A
I honestly should have used this thing earlier. Being able to trap Magnemite and Chinchou and kill them off means Fletchling can sweep with less trouble. It has a powerful STAB in Earthquake, and a very sexy priority move in Sucker Punch and has Stealth Rock to break Tirtouga and Magnemite Sturdy. It's such a useful team mate and only its frailness let's it down.
Fletchling: A
Talon Jr. makes a great offensive core with Diglett and can decimate teams after Diglett has gone through them. Fletch's Acrobatics is a nuke (just wait till it gets Flying Gem!) and it gives Mienfoo and Scraggy nightmares. It does require some support, and it's murdered by faster priority, but teams unprepared for Fletchling normally lose.
I honestly should have used this thing earlier. Being able to trap Magnemite and Chinchou and kill them off means Fletchling can sweep with less trouble. It has a powerful STAB in Earthquake, and a very sexy priority move in Sucker Punch and has Stealth Rock to break Tirtouga and Magnemite Sturdy. It's such a useful team mate and only its frailness let's it down.
Fletchling: A
Talon Jr. makes a great offensive core with Diglett and can decimate teams after Diglett has gone through them. Fletch's Acrobatics is a nuke (just wait till it gets Flying Gem!) and it gives Mienfoo and Scraggy nightmares. It does require some support, and it's murdered by faster priority, but teams unprepared for Fletchling normally lose.
Ekans can be C rank. Coil set is legit and can do decent damage to all.
Diglett is an A rank babe. Best trapper and helps Fletchling out with anything it cant hurt not named Archen, but even then, reversal will do some damage.
Stunky doesn't have the move pool to really do anything other dark types or poison types can. It is deceptively fast, however, and is a pretty solid defogger. I'd give it D rank
Larvesta is a mon I've discussed for A rank
Ponyta is just as good Larvesta, who I've justified. A rank
Houndour is *gulps* the best mixed attacker in the game I can think of. Incredible wall breaker set back by shit bull and average speed. If we could separate tiers even more, it's a top tier B rank.
I've never really used Magnemite a lot other than scarf, but I like the scarf set. BJ would work too. Can't discuss this. Gotta use it more.
Fletchling... Hmmm... I could see it being S rank. It hurts a lot of the fucking tier with a SD, can beat all fighting types in a fighting meta, and all counters (namely archen, Tirt, and chinchou) are handled by scarf pawn or diglett.
What can Clamperl do other SS's can't? I guess with the DST it breaks walls, but Id rather use something else. C rank.
A Pokemon I don't see tiered (I think) is Growlithe. It's been a mainstay on my team since KrowTite left, and it's doing wonders. Being the only LC Pokemon with WoW and intimidate, and 21 defense and SpD after eviolite, this thing is bulky. Not much is liking a Neutral flare Blitz regardless of investment, and has recovery with morning sun. I'd really like to see it A rank, but that's a dream, so let's shoot for B rank.
I still think it's deserving of B rank, but it's not a d rank or frog, so that's okay.
Fletching... O geez. I could honestly see it in either A or S rank. I feel like it is good enough to be S because it sweeps so many teams and it beats all the fighting types running around the tier as well. However, you have all made good points. Fletchling needs support to be able to sweep since (I really like what Merritt posted) it's stats are not that great with rather middling speed and very little coverage to fall back on. This requires Fletchling to have support, and therefore breaks the very definition of an S rank pokemon. So I m going to agree with those of you saying it should be A: While it sweeps weakened and unprepared teams, it does need support and can't sweep on it's own.
I know I have not said anything new, but I just wanted to say what I thought and add another vote to staying in A.
I know I have not said anything new, but I just wanted to say what I thought and add another vote to staying in A.
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...do people seriously think Fletchling deserves S rank?
Really?
Fletchling is a fantastic revenge killer with priority Acrobatics, but that's pretty much the only thing it can do well. It's bulk is basically nonexistant, and it will basically die to anything that can survive a hit, and it's average Attack means it won't be getting too many OHKOs on things that aren't weak to it.
If it gets a Swords Dance boost, however, it becomes much more threatening, but unfortunately for Fletch it's not very easy to get set up without being Baton Passed some boosts.
Overall, though, Fletchling is not overwhelmingly powerful, it's not particularly fast, and it requires prediction to set itself up. There's plenty of things that wall it as well, like Chinchou, Rock types, Pawniard (unless Fletchling carries Heat Wave) and Flame Body users. When played well, Fletchling is great, but it isn't as easy as Mienfoo or Misdreavus to play to perfection.
Is Fletchling good? Yes, if you know how to play it. Is it flawless? Absolutely not, and it requires quite a bit of skill to play to its potential.
EDIT: Looking at the tier definitions, I think B rank fits Fletchling perfectly ("Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential") but I doubt many would agree with me and I'd really be fine with it staying in A. Don't move it up to S, though.
Really?
Fletchling is a fantastic revenge killer with priority Acrobatics, but that's pretty much the only thing it can do well. It's bulk is basically nonexistant, and it will basically die to anything that can survive a hit, and it's average Attack means it won't be getting too many OHKOs on things that aren't weak to it.
If it gets a Swords Dance boost, however, it becomes much more threatening, but unfortunately for Fletch it's not very easy to get set up without being Baton Passed some boosts.
Overall, though, Fletchling is not overwhelmingly powerful, it's not particularly fast, and it requires prediction to set itself up. There's plenty of things that wall it as well, like Chinchou, Rock types, Pawniard (unless Fletchling carries Heat Wave) and Flame Body users. When played well, Fletchling is great, but it isn't as easy as Mienfoo or Misdreavus to play to perfection.
Is Fletchling good? Yes, if you know how to play it. Is it flawless? Absolutely not, and it requires quite a bit of skill to play to its potential.
EDIT: Looking at the tier definitions, I think B rank fits Fletchling perfectly ("Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential") but I doubt many would agree with me and I'd really be fine with it staying in A. Don't move it up to S, though.
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Diglett: B -> A
Diglett is a rising star in the meta, being a great partner for the omnipresent Fletchling and having the ability to trap and rekk threats such as Chinchou and Magnemite. 20 speed is fantastic, outspeeding top threats that can hit 19, like Misdreavus and Ponyta. Sucker Punch is great priority and if running Sash, Diglett can fire of a reversal to hit anything that doesn't resist it for quite a bit of damage.
Croagunk: B -> A
Croagunk is probably my new favorite Pokemon in this meta. It has enough bulk to take a variety of hits, resists the common Dark and Fighting types, and has great mixed stats which let it check various threats. Drain Punch is a solid form of recovery, Knock Off is amazingly good and lets it hit Misdreavus, Sludge Bomb / Gunk Shot is a great STAB that give it some wall-breaking abilities, Vacuum Wave rekks Pawniard, Sucker Punch / Bullet Punch is great priority, etc... Croagunk has a giant movepool to utilize and is a great answer to a lot of common Pokemon (besides Fletch and Diglett, but that's what teammates are for). Oh it also gets Pursuit which is fun.
Diglett is a rising star in the meta, being a great partner for the omnipresent Fletchling and having the ability to trap and rekk threats such as Chinchou and Magnemite. 20 speed is fantastic, outspeeding top threats that can hit 19, like Misdreavus and Ponyta. Sucker Punch is great priority and if running Sash, Diglett can fire of a reversal to hit anything that doesn't resist it for quite a bit of damage.
Croagunk: B -> A
Croagunk is probably my new favorite Pokemon in this meta. It has enough bulk to take a variety of hits, resists the common Dark and Fighting types, and has great mixed stats which let it check various threats. Drain Punch is a solid form of recovery, Knock Off is amazingly good and lets it hit Misdreavus, Sludge Bomb / Gunk Shot is a great STAB that give it some wall-breaking abilities, Vacuum Wave rekks Pawniard, Sucker Punch / Bullet Punch is great priority, etc... Croagunk has a giant movepool to utilize and is a great answer to a lot of common Pokemon (besides Fletch and Diglett, but that's what teammates are for). Oh it also gets Pursuit which is fun.
Idk but prem you have this weird obsession with putting gunk in b and I think the rest of the community, or at least the vast majority agrees gunk should be a. Check like all above posts starting with mine
diglett being A is a joke, that thing can't even OHKO bulkchou with Life Orb
it's far too predictable and most competent player won't give free traps. diglett could have been rank A gen 4 or 5, either when eviolite wasnt around or when perma sand made diglett a monster with sand force
gunk should be A yeah very versatile, reliable, and good typing and ability
it's far too predictable and most competent player won't give free traps. diglett could have been rank A gen 4 or 5, either when eviolite wasnt around or when perma sand made diglett a monster with sand force
gunk should be A yeah very versatile, reliable, and good typing and ability
Its called volturn which is a very playable style considering how fletch gets u-turn and it checked by most of the mons diglett likes to trap (aside from archen but volturn=chinchou sometimes. Also sand force diglett relied on a non boosted LO suckerpunch to beat stuff it couldn't outspeed (scarfers and shit)/priority users,which isn't that strong when croagunk would fucking rape you with an LO vaccum wave then let a gligar finish you off or something. also snover was pretty common,
lol did you think i did it from pure bias. i mean i read other people say its not too and i totally agree
the thing is... it doesnt have the bulk to take a variety of hits... itll take one neutral hit before it dies, and without an eviolite it really cant take crap. great mixed stats doesnt let it check anything, great mixed stats only let you break through walls, which it cant even do because to be bulky enough to be a pivot its a weak as hell. drain punch and knock off are obviously good, but thats something every fighting type has which isnt really giving it an edge. give me a reason why sludge bomb or gunk shot that gives it some wall breaking abilities outside of hitting the one fairy type in the tier super effectively. thats not wall breaking, thats coverage.
its a decent answer to a lot of common pokemon. it doesnt always win, its not strong enough to do things to other mons outside of the select few mons it tries to beat, and its just not a scary pokemon by any means. likle i cant see why you think its A tier when it hits like that much of a pussy :(
I mostly agree with this post. After testing Gunk a lot it definitely has a place on teams as a Fighting type that actually checks other Fighting-types and deals with Spritzee.
Diglett is my boy but, it's very specific and it's role isn't even a "role". I'm ok with it being A but it's a shitty Pokemon with an incredibly unique ability, it basically screams B.
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