Legality of in-game glitches. (A discussion thread.)

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Out of Obscurity
is a Pokemon Researcher
You don't seem to understand the differences in the glitches which we allow and the ones which we don't. I've already drawn up the comparison between the Smash community and how they ban certain glitches which are deemed game breaking but leave the others free to use. (The IC's freeze glitch is banned while L-cancel and wavedash are not.).
As a smash player I'd like to clear up this comparison, as it's a very good one if someone that actually knows both games does the comparing.

First of all, L-Cancel and Wavedash are bad examples, through study and Sakurai interviews we know these were programmed into the game. It's no different as Flash Fire absorbing Fire-type moves, it was put there on purpose for that intent.

Other examples with real glitches are better.
There are numerous glitches that cause an opponent to be stuck in place, unable to do anything. You can beat them and then throw them to death. Most of these glitches can be easily preformed if the player knows what they're doing, are virtually impossible to do on accident, and allow free wins, pretty much. It would be like letting the Mimic glitch give Machop No Guard sheer cold or something, easy wins, overcentralizing and abused.

On the other hand oversights like canceling lag in attacks by sliding off ledges (edge canceling) were definitely not intended(seeing as how it was removed in Brawl and some variations even removed in later versions of the game), but weren't really gamebreaking. It allowed a more healthy and smoother variety of gameplay. While nobody really thought of these as "bugs", we did it because we could. You can do the Pomeg Glitch, it wasn't intended, but it certainly helps the metagame, so why not?

That's what I say of things.
If it was a nintendo hosted tournament or whatever.. do you believe they would allow glitching? lol If they saw you coming in there with a Hydro Pump Staryu at lvl 5?

Chou Toshio

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I'm not a little cup player, but I think it'd be interesting/noteworthy to point out that even the "level 5" barrier of little cup was a rule for flavor and to add uniqueness to the style of play (affecting stats and EVing). However, the notion at the heart of little cup, that is playing with unevolved 1st stage pokemon, could easy have been established as a metagame using level 50, 75 or 100 pokemon, in which case this glitch would have been completely irrelevant.

Really, I think both sides have legitimate points though.


What impossible odds?
is a Contributor Alumnus
Whether or not we use the glitch, it is there whether we like it or not.I'd like to bring to everyone's attention the fact that while the pomeg glitch allows pokemon to get moves in their level up movepool that they couldn't otherwise, it should be noted that the moves in the glitch were gained by leveling up the pokemon. Isn't that the way pokemon are supposed to learn moves? by level up? on the other hand, the mimic glitch gives moves in an entirely different way; they are given to the pokemon at lv1, just by breeding with a glitched ditto.

Case in point; the two glitches aren't really all that comparable. While they both have similar effects, the methods for obtaining said effects are entirely different. One uses a central mechanic in pokemon, the other doesn't. While some may not view using the pomeg glitch's effect as legal, you are doing what the pokemon was legally intended to do--to level up and gain moves.

For those who say that we're using a developing oversight to gain moves, that's not entirely true. Yes, the pomeg glitch exists, but that itself doesn't do anything. All that does is give you no pokemon on the overwolrd, nothing more. In order to gain the moves, you have to use the standard mechanics of pokemon.

so are we banning the usage of leveling up? or not? because what is the point in pokemon if there is no leveling up. Everyone should understand that we're not talking about the glitch itself; that part is harmless and does nothing. We're talking about leveling up pokemon.
So.. if you're going to get moves through leveling up, you're completely ignoring the whole idea of Little Cup. lol You may as well battle level 50 Pokémon that aren't evolved yet.
There are no ethics in Pokemon. I don't care that Nintendo might not have meant the Pomeg glitch to exist. It does exist, and therefore it is subject to the same policy review that every other aspect of the game is subject to. Pomeg stays, Mimic is banned to ubers.


What impossible odds?
is a Contributor Alumnus
So.. if you're going to get moves through leveling up, you're completely ignoring the whole idea of Little Cup. lol You may as well battle level 50 Pokémon that aren't evolved yet.
the point isn't that we're getting moves through leveling up; it's that we're getting moves via a legal method, unlike some people believe. to put it this way, if the egg hatched at the level it ended up as via the pomeg glitch, it wouldn't be used. Eggs are hatched at level 5, with no EVs / exp whatsoever. That's intended, because if it didn't happen that way, there WOULD be no LC, and this argument wouldn't exist in the first place.
I think in everyone's quest to become a "great battler" and being so obsessed with "competitiveness" people are forgetting the basic rules of the game... It is very sad to see.


protected by a silver spoon
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We aren't nintendo or gamefreak, we are Smogon. Just compare the "Standard" metagames of the two and maybe you'll get an idea of why bringing up any potential nintendo rulesets is ridiculous. That doesn't even warrant a response. As for Gamefreak's intent -- even if they were to say it was unintentional, that would by no means alter its legality in Smogon's rulesets. We don't care what was intended, to put it bluntly. If something is somehow obtainable ingame and the means of obtaining it does not somehow "break" or unbalance the game, it will be allowed.

At any rate, this argument has been nothing but rehashing the same points over and over again, and I don't see it going anywhere. Because make the game and we decide the rules. Unless the Pomeg somehow is revealed to break game in some fashion, it will remain in Little Cup, as will any mechanic that does not totally destroy the balance of the game.

EDIT: Miria, the point of Smogon is competitive Pokemon. That's the entire philosophy of the site.
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