Research Legends: Arceus Battle Mechanics Research

[Marty]

Rules for this Thread

1. Please limit discussion to battle mechanics only.
2. Avoid vague questions like "does X still work the same?" or "How does new move Y work?" Needs to be a specific idea to test.

Complete damage formula courtesy of Anubis

Move data courtesy of Kaphotics

Observations from the move data

• 177 moves in the game, at least 7 for each type. 75 Physical, 73 Special, 29 Status
• Status conditions wear off after a certain number of turns, depending on the move that caused them
  • In general, primary effects last 5 turns, and secondary effects last 3 turns
    • exceptions: drowsy from Dark Void lasts 3 turns, poison from Poison Sting lasts 5 turns
• Stat boosts and drops wear off after a certain number of turns, depending on the move that caused them
  • Non-attacking moves raising/lowering offense or defense last 5 turns (except Shelter lasts 4 turns and Dark Void lasts 3 turns)
  • Non-attacking moves raising the user's offense and defense last 4 turns
  • Secondary effects last 3 turns

Status conditions can override each other and themselves, starting a new turn counter.

Attack/Sp. Atk stat stages, and Defense/Sp. Def stat stages are lumped together in this game. (i.e. Swords Dance and Nasty Plot do the same thing, Bulk Up and Calm Mind do the same thing, etc.) Stat stages can only be +1, 0, or -1. The stats themselves are not raised or lowered for damage calculation, but rather have a modifier to change the total damage directly.

Styles
Teleport, Mimic, Splash, and Struggle cannot be styled

Agile Style

• uses 2 PP per move, may change relative action speed depending on the move
• power is decreased
• healing from recovery moves is decreased
  • 50% -> 30%
  • 75% -> 50%
• Mind Blown-like self-damage is decreased
  • 50% -> 33%
  • 80% -> 70%
• status condition duration is decreased
  • 5 turns -> 3 turns
  • 3 turns -> 2 turns
  • drowsy from Rest remains at 4 turns
• effect duration is decreased by 1 turn
• stat boost/drop duration is decreased by 1 turn
  • self-drops remain at 3 turns

Strong Style

• uses 2 PP per move, may change relative action speed depending on the move
• power and accuracy are increased
• crit stage 1 becomes 2
• secondary effects are more likely to happen
  • 50% -> 100%
    • Dire Claw's 50% becomes 80%
  • 30% -> 50%
  • 20% -> 40%
• effect duration is increased
  • 5 turns -> 7 turns
  • 4 turns -> 5 turns
    • drowsy from Rest remains at 4 turns
  • 3 turns -> 4 turns
• stat boost/drop duration is increased
  • 5 turns -> 7 turns
  • 4 turns -> 5 turns
  • 3 turns -> 4 turns
    • self-drops remain at 3 turns
• healing from draining moves is increased
  • 75% -> 100%
  • 50% -> 75%
• recoil is increased
  • 25% -> 50%
  • 33% -> 50%
  • 50% -> 75%
• healing from recovery moves is increased
  • 50% -> 70%
  • 75% -> 100%
• Mind Blown-like self-damage is increased
  • 50% -> 66%
  • 80% -> 90%

Changes to old moves

• Dragon Claw and X-Scissor have a crit stage of 1
• Self-Destruct gets a Mind Blown-like makeover, taking 80% of the user's max HP (70% with agile style, 90% with strong style), rounded half up
• Pin Missile, Spikes, and Stealth Rock are 40-power moves that start the splinters effect on the target (3 turns normally, 2 agile, 4 strong)
• Petal Dance, Outrage, Rollout, and Ice Ball start the fixated effect on the user
• Mud-Slap, Octazooka, Mud Bomb, and Shadow Force start the obscured effect on the user (3 turns normally, 2 agile, 4 strong)
• Double Hit is a Status move that starts the primed effect on the user (5 turns normally, 4 agile, 7 strong)
• Focus Energy gives the user +2 crit stage (5 turns normally, 4 agile, 7 strong)
• Spark, Volt Tackle, and Wild Charge remove the user's drowsiness before attacking
• Flame Wheel and Flare Blitz remove the user's frostbite before attacking
• Venoshock deals double damage if the target has any status condition
• Rest heals 75% of the user's max HP (50% agile, 100% strong), rounded down, but the user becomes drowsy for 4 turns

Origin Forme Move Changes	Power	Accuracy	CritStage	AgilePower	StrongPower	StrongAccuracy	StrongCritStage
Roar of Time - Dialga Origin	140	75	0	120	170	85	0
Spacial Rend - Palkia Origin	80	85	2	70	100	95	3
Shadow Force - Giratina Origin	120	80	0	100	150	90	0

Action Speed Modifiers	User	UserAgile	UserStrong	Target	TargetAgile
Roar of Time - Dialga Origin	6	4	10	0	3
Spacial Rend - Palkia Origin	0	0	5	0	3
Shadow Force - Giratina Origin	5	2	8	0	3

Effects

Fixated

The Pokémon is fixated on the last move it used. This move will deal increased damage while the fixation lasts, but any damage dealt to the fixated Pokémon is also increased.

1.5x damage against opponents, 1.33x damage from opponents.

Splinters

At the end of each turn, the Pokémon is hurt by the jagged splinters digging into it.

Damage per turn = 25-power calculation using the same type of attack with no damage variance.

Obscured

The Pokémon is concealed in mud or the like, raising the chance that the Pokémon will evade opponents’ moves.

33% accuracy reduction (?)

Primed

The Pokémon has adopted a hard-hitting stance, increasing the damage it deals with its moves.

1.5x damage.

Stance Swap

The Pokémon has swapped its offensive stats with its defensive stats.

Attack <-> Defense
Sp. Atk <-> Sp. Def

Slow Start

The Pokémon’s Attack and Speed stats are halved until it gets going.

Frenzied Might

The Pokémon takes reduced damage from status conditions and move effects such as poisoning and splinters.

Poisoned

At the end of each turn, the Pokémon is hurt by poison.

1/6th max HP per turn, rounded up.

Paralyzed

The Pokémon is paralyzed and may fail to act. Its Speed stat is also lowered.

33% chance not to move; Speed stat halved.

Drowsy

The Pokémon is drowsy and may fail to act. Any damage it takes is also increased.

33% chance not to move; 1.33x damage taken.

Burned

At the end of each turn, the Pokémon is hurt by its burn. Any damage it deals with physical moves will also be reduced.

1/12th max HP per turn, rounded up. Damage from physical moves halved.

Frostbite

At the end of each turn, the Pokémon is hurt by its frostbite. Any damage it deals with special moves will also be reduced.

1/12th max HP per turn, rounded up. Damage from special moves halved.

Wild Might

All the Pokémon’s stats are boosted. The Pokémon also takes reduced damage from status conditions and move effects such as poisoning and splinters.

All stats including Speed multiplied by 1.5, rounded down.

Terrific Might

The Pokémon takes reduced damage from status conditions and move effects such as poisoning and splinters.

Terrible Might

All the Pokémon’s stats are boosted. The Pokémon also takes reduced damage from status conditions and move effects such as poisoning and splinters.

Power Boost

The Pokémon’s offensive stats are raised, boosting its Attack and Sp. Atk stats.

1.5x damage.

Power Drop

The Pokémon’s offensive stats are lowered, reducing its Attack and Sp. Atk stats.

0.66x damage.

Guard Boost

The Pokémon’s defensive stats are raised, boosting its Defense and Sp. Def stats.

0.66x damage.

Guard Drop

The Pokémon’s defensive stats are lowered, reducing its Defense and Sp. Def stats.

1.5x damage.

Strong Sunlight

The Speed of Grass-type Pokémon is boosted.

1.33x Speed for Grass types.

Fog

All moves are less accurate, apart from moves that are always sure to hit.

33% accuracy reduction (?)

Rain

Damage dealt by Fire-type moves is reduced.

0.75x damage.

Snow

Pokémon are more likely to get frostbite, and drowsy Pokémon are more likely to fail to act. The Speed of Ice-type Pokémon is also boosted.

1.33x Speed for Ice types. Increase to frostbite chances and increase to drowsy rate unknown.

 

[Marty]

I'll start!

Fixated - how much more damage does a fixated move deal, and how much more damage does the user take from attacks during the effect?

Splinters - what is the formula for calculating its damage? It's not a consistent fraction of max HP. There's a 25 in the move data for each of the moves, perhaps a power value?

Obscured - what is the boost to evasiveness?

Drowsy - chance of being too drowsy to move? How much more damage does a drowsy Pokemon take from attacks?

 

[Anubis]

Some numbers from when I was testing Splinter damage from Stealth Rock:

Normally, Field_53 = SplinterModifier is 25, but I modified the value on it to see how much residual damage it did at the end of each turn. The damage is the same every turn.

damage taken by splinter:
modifier of 0 = 1 damage
modifier of 25 = 31
modifier of 100 = 126
modifier of 180 = 227
modifier of 255 = > 229 (killed my Pokemon from full health).

Level 46 Graveler with these stats used Stealth Rock on my level 59 Floatzel.

When I tried with a modifier of 180 on a level 100 Basculegion, it took me down to 235/380 from full health:

Not sure what exactly the calculation is and what values matter. Lack of PvP means you'll have to be clever testing versus the AI. The stats displayed are accurately calculated using the in-game formula.

 

[sb879]

Strong style increases accuracy and effect duration (on Hypnosis specifically, it goes from 70->90 accuracy and 5->7 turn duration). This leads me to suspect it might also increase the chance of secondary effects occurring. I believe Poison Sting has a 50% poison chance so that may be a good move to test on since it's also quick to get mastered.

 

[doipy hooves]

Strong style increases accuracy and effect duration (on Hypnosis specifically, it goes from 70->90 accuracy and 5->7 turn duration). This leads me to suspect it might also increase the chance of secondary effects occurring. I believe Poison Sting has a 50% poison chance so that may be a good move to test on since it's also quick to get mastered.

Yeah, this has a column in the Kaphotics move data under StrongInflictPercent and is 100% for Poison Sting.

 

[sb879]

Yeah, this has a column in the Kaphotics move data under StrongInflictPercent and is 100% for Poison Sting.

Oh, lol. Well nice to have that confirmed. I'm using Hypnosis a lot so I'll try to get some data for drowsy stun rate.

 

[sb879]

Currently, out of 100 possible drowsy turns, 33 have caused the target to be unable to move. Tentatively, I'd say 1/3, but a lot more need to be conducted to be truly sure.

 

[Marty]

Damage from poison seems buffed in this game, probably to make up for the status wearing off after a few actions and not cutting any stats in half.
A few data points:

Max HP	Damage per turn
185	31
193	33
201	34

Looking like poison damage is now 1/6 max HP, rounded up!

 

[Jibaku]

Did a few quick tests of Origin Palkia's Spacial Rend crits compared to regular because I was curious as to why it has both less lower and accuracy, and since it doesn't show up on the move sheet.

Base form Strong Style Spacial Rend: 10/18 crit
Origin regular Spacial Rend: 12/19 crit
Origin Strong Style: 24/24 crit

As per the spreadsheet, strong style appears to add +1 to the crit stage of high-crit moves. At immediate glance, this looks like Origin Forme Spacial Rend naturally has a +2 crit stage (+3 stage always crits in other games; probably also does here).

EDIT: since the parameters arent in the sheet

Origin Spacial Rend: 80 BP / 85% acc
Origin Strong Style Spacial Rend: 100 BP / 95% Acc

 

[Negative Charge]

Has anyone examined the mechanics of the Legend plate? How does it react to status moves (is it immune to spore for example by becoming a grass type)?

 

[Count Bleck]

Just discovered something while I was having a 2 vs 1 vs parasects. Seems like Status conditions can be overwritten in this game! Parasect A used Spore on my shiny goomy, making it Drowsy, but then Parasect b followed up with Poison Powder, replacing it with poison!

 

[viol and bass]

Just discovered something while I was having a 2 vs 1 vs parasects. Seems like Status conditions can be overwritten in this game! Parasect A used Spore on my shiny goomy, making it Drowsy, but then Parasect b followed up with Poison Powder, replacing it with poison!

Not only that, but you can be re-afflicted with the same status when you're already statused. So if I'm paralyzed and the opponent uses Thunder Wave on me, I believe it will reset the paralysis counter.

Edit: just want to note that I'm assuming this based on the fact that you get the same message after paralyzing them the second time. I'm not 100% sure that's how it works.

 

[Arcanite]

Do we know the capture rates of the new balls? In particular the heavy/leaden/gigaton ball? It seems they should be better than the standard poke/great/ultra, but by how much? Similarly while the light balls have beneficial physics that give them a clear draw in some spots, the heavy ball physics is pretty close to unusable.

 

[R_N]

Do we know the capture rates of the new balls? In particular the heavy/leaden/gigaton ball? It seems they should be better than the standard poke/great/ultra, but by how much? Similarly while the light balls have beneficial physics that give them a clear draw in some spots, the heavy ball physics is pretty close to unusable.

I'm also curious how much the balls function carries into battle.

Is a Gigaton ball exactly the same as an Ultra Ball (since you can't get the "surprise" bonus and weight doesnt matter) or should we always be throwing them in battles?
The Jet balls are designed around flying Pokemon (since they can fly further and higher), is it possible that if used in battle it's still making this check and will be more effective on, say, a Gyarados (part flying) as opposed to a Bibarel? Or what if it is visually flying? Would suddenly Scizor work better (who now floats in battle) while Starly wouldn't?

 

[Ema Skye]

Initial guesses from my limited testing seem to suggest that Heavy Balls etc have a higher multiplier for back strikes to compensate for their lower range. I don’t know what the drawback to Feather Balls is, but I use them liberally as the range is amazing for sneak attacks.

 

[psykill]

From hologram on Famiboards:


The moment I have been waiting for since we first realized stats worked differently has arrived - we now know how stat calculation works! I'm not 100% sure, but I think damage calculation works the same, but the stats system has been revamped. I got this information from Bulbapedia but I would not at all be surprised if it originally came from Serebii.

To start with, here is the old formula:

HP: ((2 * Base + IV + EV/4) * Level) / 100 + Level + 10
Other: (((2 * Base + IV + EV/4) * Level) / 100 + 5) * Nature

Base, IV, EV, and Level refer to the respective values. Nature is 0.9 for a hindering Nature, 1 for a neutral Nature, and 1.1 for an enhancing Nature. At any point where there is a fraction (so EV/4, x/100, and multiplying by Nature), we are really taking the floor function, i.e. discarding anything after the decimal point. In other words, you never round up, and rounding down is done at every stage rather than at the end of the calculation.

Here is the new formula:
HP: (Level/100 + 1) * Base + Level + ELB
Other: ((Level/50 + 1) * Base) / 1.5) * Nature + ELB

where ELB, or Effort Level Bonus, is:
ELB = (sqrt(Base) * Multiplier + Level) / 2.5

The Multiplier is calculated using the Effort Level; I'll include a table below. I am not sure when and how rounding is done.

Effort Level	Multiplier
0	0
1	2
2	3
3	4
4	7
5	8
6	9
7	14
8	15
9	16
10	25

I'll leave it to you to calculate some example stats (or look on Serebii, who has a very helpful table for Level 50 and 100 at least for the new Pokémon). The main trend is this: stats are typically higher than with the old calculation, as we expected, but the difference is much less dramatic for higher levels. In fact, a Pokémon's max stat will only be 30-40% higher at Level 100 than at Level 50, rather than around double using the old formula. This might also explain why your Level 40 starter is still regularly getting one-shot by Level 25 Pokémon.

 

[Count Bleck]

From hologram on Famiboards:


The moment I have been waiting for since we first realized stats worked differently has arrived - we now know how stat calculation works! I'm not 100% sure, but I think damage calculation works the same, but the stats system has been revamped. I got this information from Bulbapedia but I would not at all be surprised if it originally came from Serebii.

To start with, here is the old formula:

HP: ((2 * Base + IV + EV/4) * Level) / 100 + Level + 10
Other: (((2 * Base + IV + EV/4) * Level) / 100 + 5) * Nature

Base, IV, EV, and Level refer to the respective values. Nature is 0.9 for a hindering Nature, 1 for a neutral Nature, and 1.1 for an enhancing Nature. At any point where there is a fraction (so EV/4, x/100, and multiplying by Nature), we are really taking the floor function, i.e. discarding anything after the decimal point. In other words, you never round up, and rounding down is done at every stage rather than at the end of the calculation.

Here is the new formula:
HP: (Level/100 + 1) * Base + Level + ELB
Other: ((Level/50 + 1) * Base) / 1.5) * Nature + ELB

where ELB, or Effort Level Bonus, is:
ELB = (sqrt(Base) * Multiplier + Level) / 2.5

The Multiplier is calculated using the Effort Level; I'll include a table below. I am not sure when and how rounding is done.

Effort Level	Multiplier
0	0
1	2
2	3
3	4
4	7
5	8
6	9
7	14
8	15
9	16
10	25

I'll leave it to you to calculate some example stats (or look on Serebii, who has a very helpful table for Level 50 and 100 at least for the new Pokémon). The main trend is this: stats are typically higher than with the old calculation, as we expected, but the difference is much less dramatic for higher levels. In fact, a Pokémon's max stat will only be 30-40% higher at Level 100 than at Level 50, rather than around double using the old formula. This might also explain why your Level 40 starter is still regularly getting one-shot by Level 25 Pokémon.

Okay, so if im reading this right, for legends arceus, every mon basically has a new set of stats? Even at level 100, some pokemon will never reach the stats they had in previous games?

 

[R_N]

Okay, so if im reading this right, for legends arceus, every mon basically has a new set of stats? Even at level 100, some pokemon will never reach the stats they had in previous games?

It seems like, if I'm reading this right, up to a around level 50, they're higher than normal, but by around level 100 they're lower than normal

For a game like this I suppose it makes sense. It makes it more feasible to tackle very high leveled Pokemon (alphas in particular) at a lower set of levels and also means that a game where the bulk of it is entirely wild pokemon (That are, in story, meant to be frightening) can quickly go down hill while making the few forced battles there are have more teeth.

 

[doipy hooves]

Okay, so if im reading this right, for legends arceus, every mon basically has a new set of stats? Even at level 100, some pokemon will never reach the stats they had in previous games?

In general stats are bigger but with less difference over levels, and for the most part mons will end up stronger, but technically it doesn't hold for everything because of the base stat playing a more important multiplicative role in both PLA formulas while IVs and EVs are universal additives. To compare, a neutral 0 investment Magikarp has 180/60/150/70/80/200 in PLA, vs the regular 150/25/115/35/45/165 at 0 EVs/IVs, winning in every area. With max ELs/GVs, PLA Magikarp has 225/92/224/109/125/289, while max IVs and EVs gets you to 244/119/209/129/139/259. PLA Magikarp only loses in areas because of its bad bases of 20 HP/10 Atk/15 SpA/20 SpD and any other mon with higher bases will end up better in general.

I found this comparison graph for base 100 in a reply from the original Kaphotics post about the stat formula.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487166745647497222

EDIT: At 0 investment both Magikarp actually do effectively end up with 2*base stat in the process, but 0 investment PLA Magikarp wins because the effort level bonus always factors in level even with a 0 multiplier, so it's getting +40 to each stat (100/2.5) while regular Magikarp is only getting the +5 base that's always in the stat formula, so I guess PLA has the better addition factor at base as well.

 

[Germaniac]

I guess this is where I should've been posting, but anyway

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zAgzYKgcapOi72AHu4L6zdpwTQ/edit#gid=230122317

Base Power

• 30 to 50 in Standard:
  -10 in Agile, +10 in Strong
• 60 to 75 in Standard:
  -15 in Agile, +15 in Strong
• 80 to 120 in Standard:
  -20 in Agile, +20 in Strong
• Exceptions (Name; Standard, Agile, Strong):
  Hidden Power; 50, 30, 70
  Octazooka; 65, 40, 100
  Outrage; 90, 60, 120
  Petal Dance; 90, 60, 120
  Raging Fury; 90, 60, 120
  Spacial Rend; 90, 75, 110
  Giga Impact; 120, 100, 150
  Head Smash; 120, 100, 150
  Hyper Beam; 120, 100, 150
  Roar of Time; 120, 100, 150
  Self-Destruct; 150, 120, 200

Accuracy

• Agile doesn't affect accuracy, it follows Standard
• 70% to 80% in Standard:
  90% in Strong
• 85% in Standard:
  95% in Strong
• 90% to 100% in Standard:
  100% in Strong
• Exceptions (Name; Standard, Strong):
  Poison Powder; 80%, 100%
  Sleep Powder; 80%, 100%
  Stun Spore; 80%, 100%
  Seed Flare; 85%, 100%
  Giga Impact; 85%, 95%
  Hyper Beam; 85%, 95%

Critical Rate

• Agile doesn't affect critical rate, it follows Standard
• 4.17% in Standard:
  4.17% in Strong
• 12.5% in Standard:
  50% in Strong
• No exceptions

Effect Rate

• Agile doesn't affect effect rate, it follows Standard
• 20% in Standard:
  40% in Strong
• 30% in Standard:
  50% in Strong
• 50% to 100% in Standard:
  100% in Strong
• Exception (Name; Standard, Strong):
  Dire Claw; 50%, 80%

Effect Duration

• 3 to 4 in Standard:
  -1 in Agile, +1 in Strong
• 5 in Standard:
  -2 in Agile, +2 in Strong
• Exceptions (Standard, Agile, Strong; Names):
  3, 3, 3; Close Combat, Draco Meteor, Headlong Rush, Leaf Storm, Overheat
  4, 4, 4; Rest
  5, 4, 7; Acid Armor, Baby-Doll Eyes, Double Hit, Focus Energy, Iron Defense, Nasty Plot, Power Shift, Swords Dance

Does anyone know if Agile has its own built-in Speed Mod value? It's weird that a lot of moves have the same ActionSpeedMod and AgileActionSpeedMod despite having less Base Power for the latter.

 

[Devious]

I don't know if this is helpful but I put the pastebin data into a google sheets document.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...TXsibAGRT08Ji4oSTqJbUyyPn6NO06IR4x0wM/pubhtml

What's immediately interesting from quickly looking through this is that there are still flinch chances included, even for the new move Mountain Gale, and that status moves have hidden priority modifiers.

 

[Germaniac]

I don't know if this is helpful but I put the pastebin data into a google sheets document.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...TXsibAGRT08Ji4oSTqJbUyyPn6NO06IR4x0wM/pubhtml

What's immediately interesting from quickly looking through this is that there are still flinch chances included, even for the new move Mountain Gale, and that status moves have hidden priority modifiers.

It seems flinch puts a delay on the opponent as much as the move's TargetActionSpeedMod, but I don't know if it actually works in-game. There's also StrongTargetActionSpeedMod but, unlike TargetActionSpeedMod, most of them aren't 0 for moves that have 0 flinch rate, so Strong probably has its own built-in flinch rate. That'd explain why most moves have a much higher StrongActionSpeedMod and ActionSpeedMod difference compared to AgileActionSpeedMod and ActionSpeedMod difference.

 

[EldritchEcho]

I’ve done a bunch of research, I haven’t found the exact way turn order is calculated, but from some playtesting I did discover a interesting detail. It seems that agile style moves actually lower the target’s turn order instead of raising yours. In a 3v1 against the same Pokémon all at the same level, using an agile move only changed the targeted pokemon’s turn. IE
Targeting Paras 1 Moved it’s turn after user’s next turn
Paras 2 and 3’s turns remained the same, still occurring before my next turn
Changing the target to Paras 2 moves it’s turn after my second turn
Paras 1 and 3 still move before my second turn

I haven’t done super thorough testing, so this could be caused by something else for all I know, and I haven’t found any formulas on calculating turn order to confirm or deny this yet. I’ll make any changes as I discover anything.

 

[Worldie]

I’ve done a bunch of research, I haven’t found the exact way turn order is calculated, but from some playtesting I did discover a interesting detail. It seems that agile style moves actually lower the target’s turn order instead of raising yours. In a 3v1 against the same Pokémon all at the same level, using an agile move only changed the targeted pokemon’s turn. IE
Targeting Paras 1 Moved it’s turn after user’s next turn
Paras 2 and 3’s turns remained the same, still occurring before my next turn
Changing the target to Paras 2 moves it’s turn after my second turn
Paras 1 and 3 still move before my second turn

I was actually wondering about that myself... in multibattles the turn order in fact changes based on who you target, i've definitely noticed it as well.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Do we know how stat boosting works in this game with moves like Calm Mind and Nasty Plot?