Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

[CW1999]

Mega Evolution: Mega Scolipede
New Ability: Corrosive Pressure
Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist): Bug and Poison type moves ignore type resistances, always dealing neutral damage using 0.9x the power of the move used. If a target would normally resist or quad resist Bug or Poison moves, the resistance is nullified and treated as neutral. Immunities are unaffected.
Reasoning: It mentions in its Legends ZA Pokedex entry Its deadly venom gives off a faint glow. The venom affects Scolipede's mind, honing its viciousness. this ability can be justified that it's attacks hit very hard but some of the power gets lost in the process. Also this is probably the few ways to buff it to be viable without breaking it.

 

[SwordIsBored]

Having a lot of fun with the tier so far, it is crazy how quickly this was made and how polished the ability concepts for the Megas feel. The biggest glaring issue for me though is the items, the decision was made to add HDB and the Choice items I assume under the idea that if ZA was a typical Pokémon game it would have these items or at least to improve the format. As well as this, we have National Dex movesets which stray it even further from the game so why not have National Dex items? It feels weird to pick and choose what we want and not include useful items like Air Balloon, Expert Belt, Loaded Dice and Mental Herb to name a few.

Edit: Somehow I forgot to mention Light Clay here, this would be insane for the tier, opening up new playstyles and making screens viable. For example, Meowstic-M could take great advantage of its new buffs and Mega-Barbaracle could have an easier time setting up.

As well as this, I think Zygarde needs a vote because I feel as if the only reason this would be wanted in the format is because it is named after him. Due to the lack of defensive walls, it feels like everything gets toppled over by either Dragon Dance, Toxic or Choice Band primarily due to Thousand Arrows being such a strong move. For example, Clefable with Unaware can take on Dragon Dance with ease as a great check but faints in two hits by Thousand Arrows from Choice Band whilst Zygarde stomachs Moonblast.

I think the Mega abilities are great as I said before, but I would like to make a few suggestions:

Give Mega-Meganium Triage back, Flower Veil makes it a perfect counter to Zygarde but realistically we should just ban that guy. Triage was a great way for this slow Pokémon to handle Mega-Greninja with priority Giga Drain without dying to Sludge Wave or Gunk Shot. Also, from a prediction standpoint I think Triage holds a lot more weight.

Its ability gives it a Special Attack buff and has a design befitting of it, so I don't know why we're still trying to build it around Superpower. If I had to throw my hat in the ring, I'd predict and give it an ability based around infatuation based on the promotional material. Would it be annoying? Yeah. Would it be fun? Not for the opponent. However, it would give it more identity and fit it a lot more than just combining two abilities together.

This one seems solid and I wouldn't want to nerf it but giving it Snow Warning feels odd considering there are only 3 Ice-Type Megas and with this inclusion gives 2/3 of them the same ability. Wandering Spirit could work as it is said to be inhabited by the soul of a dead woman whilst Perish Body could also work due to Froslass being said to place deadly curses in the Pokédex entry.

Flash Fire is boring though I'm not trying to just make everything overpowered so here's a suggestion: Chandelure-Mega's Pokédex entry speaks of it linking the mortal realm to the afterlife and converting hatred and sorrow into destructive energy. My idea is that it releases this energy upon being defeated, making the ability Aftermath a good choice for it. I can't really explain exactly why my brain led me to this ability, but it's a fun one and has a bit more flavour.

 

[Kiwijaune]

I'm hoping Dhelmise/ the people in charge of the metagame take a clearer stance on the vision for the tier at some point in the near future. I've been seeing a lot of discussion about changes to existing Megas, both in this thread and in the Discord server, but none of them have been touched so far. If the goal is to keep existing Megas the same, then it's pretty pointless to be discussing whether or not Mega Ampharos should get Fluffy and instead we should shift our energy towards settling on "permanent" abilities for the new Megas. On the flip side, if the goal is to take a look at the existing Megas once the bans/abilities for the new Megas are final, communicating that can invite more people to look at the existing Megas.

 

[SDK03]

Mega Evolution: Mega Scolipede
New Ability: Corrosive Pressure
Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist): Bug and Poison type moves ignore type resistances, always dealing neutral damage using 0.9x the power of the move used. If a target would normally resist or quad resist Bug or Poison moves, the resistance is nullified and treated as neutral. Immunities are unaffected.
Reasoning: It mentions in its Legends ZA Pokedex entry Its deadly venom gives off a faint glow. The venom affects Scolipede's mind, honing its viciousness. this ability can be justified that it's attacks hit very hard but some of the power gets lost in the process. Also this is probably the few ways to buff it to be viable without breaking it.

Honestly a solid compromise on a Tinted Lens type ability. I kinda like it.

 

[Finalcrusader15]

Thanks to emillight, Meteordash, Kennedy, Eli, and Sectonia for letting me bounce ideas off of them while writing/coding this!

Current Ability Assignments

Clefable-Mega: Serene Grace
Victreebel-Mega: Corrosion
Starmie-Mega: Pure Power, -40 Atk
Dragonite-Mega: Soul-Heart
Meganium-Mega: Flower Veil
Feraligatr-Mega: Dragon's Maw
Skarmory-Mega: Tough Claws
Gallade-Mega: Sharpness
Froslass-Mega: Snow Warning
Emboar-Mega: Supreme Overlord
Excadrill-Mega: Mold Breaker
Audino-Mega: Regenerator
Scolipede-Mega: Tinted Lens
Scrafty-Mega: Shed Skin
Eelektross-Mega: Ion Battery (Levitate + Plus + Minus)
Chandelure-Mega: Flash Fire
Chesnaught-Mega: Protective Thorns (Bulletproof + Iron Barbs)
Delphox-Mega: Levitate
Greninja-Mega: Technician
Pyroar-Mega: Drought
Dragalge-Mega: Regenerator
Floette-Mega: Ange (Recover 1/12 max HP every turn, vs Megas: Drain 1/10 of their HP every turn instead)
Malamar-Mega: Contrarian (Contrary + Simple)
Barbaracle-Mega: Tough Claws
Hawlucha-Mega: Luchador's Pride (Moxie but for Speed)
Zygarde-Mega: Aura Break
Drampa-Mega: Drizzle
Falinks-Mega: Brass Bond (Moves hit 3 times, 2nd/3rd hits do 15% damage of the first hit, 2nd/3rd hits don't have additional effects)

Flower veil for meganium come on give it triage

 

[Kiwijaune]

If you read the first post, you'll have your answer ahah

I did read the post. From the post, I did not get the impression that old Megas would have their abilities overhauled. However, with Gallade and Audino getting Sharpness and Regen respectively, does that mean Regen Mega Slowbro and Rough Skin Mega Garchomp are on the table? People have gone even further in discussions in here and in the Discord server, talking about a bunch of different abilities for a bunch of different existing Megas. I think it wouldn't hurt for the leadership to clarify what they are looking for with these discussions and guide said discussions. Are we only looking at new Megas? Are we prioritizing existing abilities? For custom abilities, is it better for them to be combinations of existing ones? Or maybe the final goal is to have a metagame where every Megas is viable to some extent. This is what I meant by "a clearer stance on the vision for the tier".

 

[Som]

Hi, thanks for putting this together so quickly! It's both impressive and cool, but I have to admit, I'm not particularly having fun yet. That is mainly because... I Am Here To Play Mega Scrafty and it is hella rough out here for the boy.

The primary reason is that its Mega does not at all alleviate the reasons it was unviable in the first place. It's still slow, and while def bulkier, it also still pops like a balloon to one (1) un-STABed Moonblast or Play Rough.

The secondary reason is that, because of the very limited pool of mons, and it's effect on team building, it's counters are in every game. Clefable is in 8/10 games. +2 Poison Jab doesn't even drop most of em. Their 0 SpA Moonblast tho? Pop. Diancie, Mawile, Hydro Pump Greninja, Gallade.... Pop!

Shed Skin Rest Bulk Up builds are completely fake. The first DD has too many switch in answers, and slow Parting Shot gaming is (in addition to gambling for fairy coverage) too quickly worn down.

My suggestions are...
First: Open up the roster at least a bit. National Dex without any of the paradox pokemon, a hand selection for diversity, or like... add the UU list. Something. I agree this format would be worse with Great Tusk, but I would literally kill for a Flygon even.

Second: If the roster is off limits, and we are aiming to play in fantasy what-if land (but balanced,) then I strongly recommend Regenerator for Mega-Scrafty. Shed Skin Mega-Scrafty is simply not cutting it. Completely incomparable to something like Sharpness Mega-Gallade. If it keeps it's Achilles Heel and has to switch out off every Fairy type, let me at least play to that style?

I think the recent changes have been good, but I also think more needs to be done to avoid it being stifling/repetitive.

 

[Alisyem]

Not sure if this is intentional but it seems like Bond Greninja can't mega?

I tested it in a custom game and it seems like it works like normal, but in this specific game mod it doesn't work.

 

[Swagodile]

Sheer Force is probably a better fit for this than Soul Heart. Sheer Force fits with its theme of not holding back and wanting to end battles as quickly as possible out of kindness, and still makes up for its -10 Attack and lack of special boosting. More immediate power but less snowball potential.

 

[Cuddly]

Not sure if this is intentional but it seems like Bond Greninja can't mega?View attachment 781431
I tested it in a custom game and it seems like it works like normal, but in this specific game mod it doesn't work.

It's intentional behavior. Only regular Greninja can Mega Evolve. Ash's Greninja can't.

 

[Critaquil]

man, this thing is a bitch, huh.

so we're all on the same page, this is the set I mainly refer to as "cb zygarde":
Zygarde @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Toxic / outrage
- Iron Tail / outrage
- Extreme Speed / outrage

now, these are a quick list of pokemon I have seen cited as checks to this thing:
-mega, , , , , -mega, -mega, -mega,

so you may have noticed a number of these are megas, as for the ones that arnt:

- toxic cripples the far more common unware set, and even with magic guard you're only about 15% of chip away from tarrrows 2hkoing, also if zygarde ever decides to click iron tail you take like 70 so good luck!

- cannot switch in safely without taking upwards of 90%, so its entirely reliant on getting in safely, which for the faster teams gren is put on, usually means a sack also if its dd zygarde gren just loses but shhhh

in the same boat as clef but somehow even worse despite toxic immunity, if you let your fully physically defensive scizor do any of the following, you no longer have a zygarde check:
- get knocked
- take rocks
- take spikes
- get chipped for more than like, 10%
most of these can be fufilled by simply, using scizor, at all, prior to zygarde coming onto the field, in fact, even if you dont bring scizor onto the field prior to zygarde, it can STILL lose if its boots simply because zygarde hit the back to back max rolls, this mon hardly counts as a check

- this thing is only actually a check if you A: are running ice beam and B: the zygarde doesnt click outrage, which like, it usually wont, but the fact that it can makes this immediately a somewhat unreliable check

- while technically a decent check, its limited splashability, susceptibility to toxic, and weakness to pursuit all come together to make this feel a lot more shaky than it realistically has any right to

all the megas on the other hand share the same issue of being yknow, your mega, if you are running a mega evolution with the express purpose of countering zygarde, that very much limits what you can do with your mega slot, not to mention most of the megas are shaky anyway, with the only real "consistent" answers being mega scizor (who still loses with enough hazzard pressure) and chesnaught/meganium, the former being crippled by toxic and the latter being basically only run to deal with zygarde (and still really doesnt like taking iron tail)

as for the others

- in the same boat as gren where its strictly there to revenge kill and cant actually safely come in outside dire emergencies, except even more limited because of it being, yknow, a mega, and a rocks weak one at that

- very fringe pick that as far as I understand is mainly picked specifically for this matchup? I havent actually run into this thing so I'm not entirely sure how well it performs as an answer but its low physical bulk leads me to think it probably doesnt particularly like switching directly into tarrows even if it does force zygarde out afterwards., also you need max speed to actually do its job of forcing zygarde out which limits your evs signifigantly.

so to recap, as far as "switchins that dont just drop to 2 tarrows after taking like 15%" we have like, 5 pokemon, 3 of which are megas and another of which is pursuit bait, if we include offensive checks theres a few more, but I think its important to keep in mind that this is just the most common of zygardes sets, mons like frosslass and gren practically stop being checks if zygarde starts dding and pokemon like slowbro clef and gourgeist dont particularly like fighting glare/sub/coil

tl;dr zygarde is broken as shit please get rid of it ty :)

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

all these fuckers got toxic back???

 

[Dorron]

Related to this post above me cursing on Toxic, if we're going full Natdex moves and arbitrarily adding Choice items + Boots, add all the other items available in Natdex. I want to use Air Balloon, Custap Berry, Salac Berry, Mental Herb, Power Herb, Covert Cloak... I'd appreciate some of these items to better handle the new op Megas and it makes sense to add them.

 

[AriehA1995]

I don't understand how this meta is called "Legends Z-A OU" but includes no-brain items and add moves that are not in the game.
You should just ban hazards and give the pokemons only moves existing in the game, without adding the NatDex moveset just because of hazards.
Also, i don't like the idea of giving new abilities, but that's reasonable at least.

 

[Ropalme1914]

man, this thing is a bitch, huh.

so we're all on the same page, this is the set I mainly refer to as "cb zygarde":
Zygarde @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Toxic / outrage
- Iron Tail / outrage
- Extreme Speed / outrage

now, these are a quick list of pokemon I have seen cited as checks to this thing:
-mega, , , , , -mega, -mega, -mega,

so you may have noticed a number of these are megas, as for the ones that arnt:

- toxic cripples the far more common unware set, and even with magic guard you're only about 15% of chip away from tarrrows 2hkoing, also if zygarde ever decides to click iron tail you take like 70 so good luck!

- cannot switch in safely without taking upwards of 90%, so its entirely reliant on getting in safely, which for the faster teams gren is put on, usually means a sack also if its dd zygarde gren just loses but shhhh

in the same boat as clef but somehow even worse despite toxic immunity, if you let your fully physically defensive scizor do any of the following, you no longer have a zygarde check:
- get knocked
- take rocks
- take spikes
- get chipped for more than like, 10%
most of these can be fufilled by simply, using scizor, at all, prior to zygarde coming onto the field, in fact, even if you dont bring scizor onto the field prior to zygarde, it can STILL lose if its boots simply because zygarde hit the back to back max rolls, this mon hardly counts as a check

- this thing is only actually a check if you A: are running ice beam and B: the zygarde doesnt click outrage, which like, it usually wont, but the fact that it can makes this immediately a somewhat unreliable check

- while technically a decent check, its limited splashability, susceptibility to toxic, and weakness to pursuit all come together to make this feel a lot more shaky than it realistically has any right to

all the megas on the other hand share the same issue of being yknow, your mega, if you are running a mega evolution with the express purpose of countering zygarde, that very much limits what you can do with your mega slot, not to mention most of the megas are shaky anyway, with the only real "consistent" answers being mega scizor (who still loses with enough hazzard pressure) and chesnaught/meganium, the former being crippled by toxic and the latter being basically only run to deal with zygarde (and still really doesnt like taking iron tail)

as for the others

- in the same boat as gren where its strictly there to revenge kill and cant actually safely come in outside dire emergencies, except even more limited because of it being, yknow, a mega, and a rocks weak one at that

- very fringe pick that as far as I understand is mainly picked specifically for this matchup? I havent actually run into this thing so I'm not entirely sure how well it performs as an answer but its low physical bulk leads me to think it probably doesnt particularly like switching directly into tarrows even if it does force zygarde out afterwards., also you need max speed to actually do its job of forcing zygarde out which limits your evs signifigantly.

so to recap, as far as "switchins that dont just drop to 2 tarrows after taking like 15%" we have like, 5 pokemon, 3 of which are megas and another of which is pursuit bait, if we include offensive checks theres a few more, but I think its important to keep in mind that this is just the most common of zygardes sets, mons like frosslass and gren practically stop being checks if zygarde starts dding and pokemon like slowbro clef and gourgeist dont particularly like fighting glare/sub/coil

tl;dr zygarde is broken as shit please get rid of it ty :)

Heads up, Zygarde now also gets Iron Head, which always 2HKOs Clefable and 2HKOs Mega Meganium after Stealth Rock with Adamant Zygarde, even if both are fully invested, but doesn't risk the miss of Iron Tail and even comes with that 30% chance. At least for now, I don't think there's much reason to keep Iron Tail from the SM era.

 

[Som]

I don't understand how this meta is called "Legends Z-A OU" but includes no-brain items and add moves that are not in the game.
You should just ban hazards and give the pokemons only moves existing in the game, without adding the NatDex moveset just because of hazards.
Also, i don't like the idea of giving new abilities, but that's reasonable at least.

I don't understand the benefit of being purists over a game built for an entirely different combat system? It's two different languages. We can't replicate Z-A combat here, why try to replicate it's decisions? There has to be some amount of creative liberty for translation if the aim is to have a healthy format in this combat system, no?

 

[SwordIsBored]

I don't understand how this meta is called "Legends Z-A OU" but includes no-brain items and add moves that are not in the game.
You should just ban hazards and give the pokemons only moves existing in the game, without adding the NatDex moveset just because of hazards.
Also, i don't like the idea of giving new abilities, but that's reasonable at least.

Did you play the game? Stealth Rocks, Spikes and Toxic Spikes literally exist and appear in the main story. The intent is also to use the new additions in the game and change it to what it would be like if it was a singles tier. For example, hazards exist in the game but not Rapid Spin and Defog- it would literally be unplayable and amplify the "no-brain moves" you're talking about.

 

[Garance]

Seeing how many mons have SR/Spikes/T-spikes/Sticky and how some megas/Zygarde are overpowered, the fact we got Defog and Rapid Spin back make the meta healthier.

I see no point in removing these moves. I don't see the point in banning moves that are in the game either btw.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Voicing my support for getting rid of , toxic, glare, sub+coil/dd, leftovers/choice band - I dread facing this thing every time. It's only a few paras away from breaking through your team. I hate it

On another note -mega is very nice despite being a little underwhelming on paper. It's a very solid glue anti-meta pick as it can switch into clefable, scizor, skarmory, slowbro to varying degrees of success.

@ Dragalgite
Ability: Poison Touch/Regenerator
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flip Turn
- Sludge Bomb
- Scald/HP fire/Focus Blast/Toxic/Toxic Spikes

It's certainly not impossible to switch into, but it gets on the field a lot versus a lot of common mons. When it does get on the field it makes a little progress each time. Spreading status, giving momentum with flip turn or snagging kills here and there. Ain't the best mega out there, but don't sleep on it.

252 SpA Greninja-Mega Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge-Mega: 132-156 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Delphox-Mega Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge-Mega: 224-266 (67 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
248+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge-Mega: 100-118 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- 22.7% chance to 3HKO

replay 20 turns of dragalge putting in a ton of work: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2467200296

 

[Som]

My suggestions are...
First: Open up the roster at least a bit. National Dex without any of the paradox pokemon, a hand selection for diversity, or like... add the UU list. Something. I agree this format would be worse with Great Tusk, but I would literally kill for a Flygon even.

Actually, just found the datamined DLC additions and could we get those in this format actually? Tinkaton, Milotic and Dondozo would be huge. Currently if you're looking for a Water type wall that isn't weak to Greninja you have... Feraligatr lol.

 

[Garance]

Actually, just found the datamined DLC additions and could we get those in this format actually? Tinkaton, Milotic and Dondozo would be huge. Currently if you're looking for a Water type wall that isn't weak to Greninja you have... Feraligatr lol.

Well that's a bit exaggerated.
Just to talk about the best water mon, Vaporeon is in the game, immune to water, Ice beam does nothing, dark pulse either, it can wish, haze, flip turn...
Blastoise, Gyarados, Sharpedo (even if they are not all usable like a defensive mon) exist, Volcanion is also a great addition to the list.

We also have other bulkier mons, not water type, able to beat Gren now that he doesn't have Battle Bond anymore. Dragalge, Florges, Sylveon, Umbreon and Hisuian Goodra for example.

 

[Cuddly]

This metagame is about the new Megas and the buffed old Megas, but there are some Pokemon in this Metagame that aren't Megas that should be highlighted.

Easily the most busted non-Mega in the tier. Even without a Mega or its complete form, Zygarde is a huge threat. It has multiple sets you need to prepare for and good luck trying to check it when it Glares you and that 1 recovery move you needed to use to survive gets full para'd. I don't expect this thing to remain here for much longer.


Unironically, probably the second best Non-Mega in the metagame and even arguably top 5 unironically.
In case you don't know, Sableye now has access to Parting Shot now. This makes Sableye a fantastic enabler for offensive threats. Sword Dance Lopunny, Nasty Plot Greninja and Froslass, Dragon Dance Gyarados, what ever appreciates a free turn to set up when their opponent is Encored into a weak -1 Atk/SpA move. It also makes Sableye a great answer to said threats (unless they are part Dark) because you can slow them down with Parting Shot or Wisp or Thunder Wave.
Frankly if it wasn't for the Prankster nerf from Gen 7, Sableye easily becomes number 1 Pokemon hands down. Thunder Wave Greninja, Burn Gyarados, pivot around Dark types all day.


Hoopa-U is phenomenal balance breaker like it was in ORAS days. Slap Choice Spec on it and everything is getting vaporized between Psychic/Psyshock, Dark Pulse, and Focus Blast. You are OHKOing so much of the tier and dealing 90% to everything besides like Florges.
It also pairs extremely well with Mega Lopunny. Lopunny is great against offensive archetypes that Hoopa otherwise struggles with and beats the bulkier special walls like Florges, meanwhile Hoopa is great against Balance and Stall which Lopunny could potentially struggle against. It also threatens Mega Slowbro, Mega Chesnaught, and Unaware Clefable which otherwise give Lopunny trouble.
You could also run Hoopa-U with Nasty Plot on Sticky Web teams too. It only has 2 bad stats and Sticky Webs help with that speed stat it lacks.
There is a problem though, which is its other bad stat being Def being so frail and Pursuit existing in this Metagame makes it somewhat risky if you happen to run into Tyranitar. But otherwise the other main Pursuit users are Aegislash and Mega Metagross, neither of which want to switch into Dark Pulse and Aegislash is still slower too.
Oh and to top things off, because Hoopa is part dark, you also can block Sableye from spamming Parting Shot.

 

[Som]

Well that's a bit exaggerated.
Just to talk about the best water mon, Vaporeon is in the game, immune to water, Ice beam does nothing, dark pulse either, it can wish, haze, flip turn...
Blastoise, Gyarados, Sharpedo (even if they are not all usable like a defensive mon) exist, Volcanion is also a great addition to the list.

We also have other bulkier mons, not water type, able to beat Gren now that he doesn't have Battle Bond anymore. Dragalge, Florges, Sylveon, Umbreon and Hisuian Goodra for example.

I'll admit I underrate Vaporeon, but the other three definitely do not qualify as walls. Assault Vest Volcanion is a decent bulky option, but like Dragalge and H-Goodra it can't safely switch in on the equally common Excadrill, meaning they can't be paired with G-Slowking.

My point is mainly that the options for good defensive cores are very restrictive at the moment, contributing to certain pokemons overrepresentation.