Me watching the Mega Chandelure tank my shadow ball and now gets more health than me (they're going to switch out into Protean Choice Scarf Greninja and kill me):.
Chandelure is cool, but imo it already has a hard time in a Nat Dex based meta (Pursuit), and Delphox and Charizard Y makes running it as you defacto Fire Mega option somewhat not ideal. All of Chandelure's dex entries in Gen 9 mention either drawing in soul for power or burning, so I think it's Mega ability should incorporate that, while promoting something cool like Wisp usage.
New Ability: Soul Siphen - Ghost type moves heal user for 50% of the damage dealt. If target is burnt all moves used heal for 50%.
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Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
I should test out if Parting Shot is blocked by Flower Veil, hold on.
Ok just as I thought. Parting Shot gets blocked by Flower Veil
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2466240688
So that's another reason to use Mega Meganium, alongside checking a whole bunch of Water, Ground and Dragon types.
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No it means Chandy gets Giga Drain effects on Ghost moves and if it burns u all moves used against u have Giga Drain effects.
First vote is up:
https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1430388310563622942
Should Battle Bond be replaced for Technician on Mega Greninja?
Should Leader of the Pride be replaced for Drought on Mega Pyroar?
Feel free to discuss here but please make sure to vote in the discord. Voting closes in 12 hours, at <t:1761145200:R>
I will address Chandelure afterwards.
https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1430388310563622942
Should Battle Bond be replaced for Technician on Mega Greninja?
Should Leader of the Pride be replaced for Drought on Mega Pyroar?
Feel free to discuss here but please make sure to vote in the discord. Voting closes in 12 hours, at <t:1761145200:R>
I will address Chandelure afterwards.
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Greninja-Mega @ Greninjite
Ability: Battle Bond
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Shuriken
- Hidden Power [Dark]
- Nasty Plot
- Hydro Pump
Using Hidden Power Technician Greninja because it's slightly stronger than Dark Pulse and doesn't make me feel bad when I flinch my opponent.
Ability: Battle Bond
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Shuriken
- Hidden Power [Dark]
- Nasty Plot
- Hydro Pump
Using Hidden Power Technician Greninja because it's slightly stronger than Dark Pulse and doesn't make me feel bad when I flinch my opponent.
Mega Evolution: Ampharos
New Ability: Fluffy
Ability Reasoning: Gives it a huge defense boost without making it super nuts, and it's not Mold Breaker.
Mega Evolution: Pyroar
New Ability: Lion's Pride
Ability Description: This pokemon and it's allies ignores the abilities and stat boosts of other pokemon; summons Sun on switch-in (Mold Breaker + Unaware + Drought)
Ability Reasoning: The reason it applies to the ability applies to allies is because Mega Pyroar's dex entry states "it protects allies with it's mane". As for the actual effects of the ability, it's a reference to both Escanor (Seven Deadly Sins character) and "the lion does not concern himself" meme. Mold Breaker and Drought from Escanor, and Unaware from the lion meme. With this amalgamation of an ability, I see it being able to stand a chance against Mega Greninja and stopping other mons that snowball.
Mega Evolution: Scolipede
New Ability: Venomous Armor
Ability Description: Immune to crits; Ignores the stat boosts of other pokemon (Battle Armor + Unaware)
Ability Reasoning: He wears armor in his mega, so something like Battle Armor makes sense, but it also seems lacking on its own. I looked at the dex entry for MegaPede, and apparently Scolipede's venom affects its own mind to make itself more lethal. With this in mind, I thought something like Unaware could work alongside Battle Armor to reference both the design and dex entry. Mold Breaker's effect could also work pretty well, but I like Unaware's effect more.
New Ability: Fluffy
Ability Reasoning: Gives it a huge defense boost without making it super nuts, and it's not Mold Breaker.
Mega Evolution: Pyroar
New Ability: Lion's Pride
Ability Description: This pokemon and it's allies ignores the abilities and stat boosts of other pokemon; summons Sun on switch-in (Mold Breaker + Unaware + Drought)
Ability Reasoning: The reason it applies to the ability applies to allies is because Mega Pyroar's dex entry states "it protects allies with it's mane". As for the actual effects of the ability, it's a reference to both Escanor (Seven Deadly Sins character) and "the lion does not concern himself" meme. Mold Breaker and Drought from Escanor, and Unaware from the lion meme. With this amalgamation of an ability, I see it being able to stand a chance against Mega Greninja and stopping other mons that snowball.
Mega Evolution: Scolipede
New Ability: Venomous Armor
Ability Description: Immune to crits; Ignores the stat boosts of other pokemon (Battle Armor + Unaware)
Ability Reasoning: He wears armor in his mega, so something like Battle Armor makes sense, but it also seems lacking on its own. I looked at the dex entry for MegaPede, and apparently Scolipede's venom affects its own mind to make itself more lethal. With this in mind, I thought something like Unaware could work alongside Battle Armor to reference both the design and dex entry. Mold Breaker's effect could also work pretty well, but I like Unaware's effect more.
Here's another team I've been having success with
https://pokepast.es/ad1cc83a6ae300a6
I've just seen gren might get nerfed which is sad cause he was really fun to use. This team was focussed on facilitating it sweeping as soon as possible between heavy slam ttar and psynoise hoopa to chip clef/mega audio down to low hp. It ignores the need for removal by scarcely using boots so that you can cheekily rush your stack and get going as soon as possible. Nasty plot on forced switches isn't hard to find, and aegis can also help overload checks.
It's very fun and simple to use, so if you want to, use it now before it gets nerfed haha : )
https://pokepast.es/ad1cc83a6ae300a6
I've just seen gren might get nerfed which is sad cause he was really fun to use. This team was focussed on facilitating it sweeping as soon as possible between heavy slam ttar and psynoise hoopa to chip clef/mega audio down to low hp. It ignores the need for removal by scarcely using boots so that you can cheekily rush your stack and get going as soon as possible. Nasty plot on forced switches isn't hard to find, and aegis can also help overload checks.
It's very fun and simple to use, so if you want to, use it now before it gets nerfed haha : )
"Custom" abilities that are just stacking clones of pre-existing abilities are incredibly unserious and should be thought out more before being suggested willy-nilly. There is zero reason why Pyroar needs to have Mold Breaker and Unaware (???) on top of Drought, which is already a significant damage increase. Same goes for buffing a mon with 60/149/99 bulk so that it has Unaware and can't be crit either. Ignoring any metagame balance the lore justification is certainly a stretch to say the least.
Anyways back to metagame balance, I'm obviously not anyone's parent but I would implore readers to see how suggestions could be done in such a way that addresses active teambuilding concerns. Surely Good as Gold Mega Skarmory and Aerialate Mega Dragonite is not healthy. Sure they make the mons super duper good but I would rather play a tier where the mons in it are mediocre but viable in a tier instead of terrorizing it.
Anyways back to metagame balance, I'm obviously not anyone's parent but I would implore readers to see how suggestions could be done in such a way that addresses active teambuilding concerns. Surely Good as Gold Mega Skarmory and Aerialate Mega Dragonite is not healthy. Sure they make the mons super duper good but I would rather play a tier where the mons in it are mediocre but viable in a tier instead of terrorizing it.
Pyroar outclassing Charizard-Y is the most cornball thing possible and is a classic example of an overkill ability. I don't think it's a good idea to give Pyroar this ability as it can now outspeed most of the tier barring a select few and can destroy almost anything that doesn't resist or outspeed it.
Contrarian is a good example of a combination ability being used to salvage a bad Pokémon but I don't see a valid reason at all Pyroar should be able to set up sun. Give it something like a -2 intimidate or something. Not as flashy but it wouldn't break the Pokémon either.
Contrarian is a good example of a combination ability being used to salvage a bad Pokémon but I don't see a valid reason at all Pyroar should be able to set up sun. Give it something like a -2 intimidate or something. Not as flashy but it wouldn't break the Pokémon either.
My response to this and other complaints like it is everyone needs to chill out please, the meta is still new and we're still figuring out what's good and what isn't, lets give it some time and see what of the new abilities needs buffs and nerfs and we can go from there.
Edit: Pyroar probably does need a nerf but there isn't a big rush
Gonna be real, I'm not a big fan of this metagame just due to how many of the options feel like complete ass. Feels like half of the teams need to run the same 4-6 mons more than usual between gking, ttar, Excadrill, Skarmory, and Clefable being on most of the teams I've seen. More specifically, the lack of real bulky waters outside of Vaporeon (who is expolitable due to Wishtect being ass and Clefable / Gking being lame MUs) is also annoying and makes it hard to contain most of the Water-types organically. Specifically, Mega Greninja is a really tough nut to crack since Gking / Slowking / Starmie are all weak to it. I've been running Passho Tyranitar as my check - but I am wondering how long the charade will last lol.
I will say it is cool to see Pokemon that wouldn'I be used much in previous metagames like Krookidile become meta staples. I did always feel Krookidile had potential due to access to the Knock Pursuit Combo + Intimidate and it seems to be doing decently from what I've seen as an aegislash check and Pursuiter. Seeing Espeon on offensive structures to larp as Hat is also cool.
As for Megas, not sure what my impressions on most of them are. Mega Gallade and Starmie I feel are espicially scary in this format, Mega Greninja (and even regular Greninja) are able to pray on a lot of structures with their nasty plot sets and you have to play the sludge Wave ice beam guessing game, Mega Metagross got some crazy buffs with Heavy Slam and Knock Off so it feels like a bit of a trading machine, and Mega Excadrill feels like its mostly kept in check by Skarm being on 90% of the teams (and even that is one flinch away from getting cooked). I haven't seen many of the other Megas like Delphox, Alakazam, Chesnaught, Barbarracle, Tyranitar, Lopunny, Mawile or Scizor for some reaons - I'm guessing its because of oppurtunity cost or issues with staple blanket checks like Scizor / Tyranitar? Barely saw several other megas like Mega Diancie as well.
As an aside, Flower Veil is an awesome ability for Mega Meganium - Makes it a really nice check to Zygarde since its immune to Para / Toxic - and it has a few other nice MUs like against the Toxic Eq Garchomp and most Krookidiles.. It is a bit weak to spikes though and it really doesn't like how common Sand / Snow are because of Gking / Ttar / Hippo since that eats into Synthesis. Clef MU also sucks and it doesn't like random Poison coverage on mons like Gren, Garchomp etc. Still, it def can cook.
I will say it is cool to see Pokemon that wouldn'I be used much in previous metagames like Krookidile become meta staples. I did always feel Krookidile had potential due to access to the Knock Pursuit Combo + Intimidate and it seems to be doing decently from what I've seen as an aegislash check and Pursuiter. Seeing Espeon on offensive structures to larp as Hat is also cool.
As for Megas, not sure what my impressions on most of them are. Mega Gallade and Starmie I feel are espicially scary in this format, Mega Greninja (and even regular Greninja) are able to pray on a lot of structures with their nasty plot sets and you have to play the sludge Wave ice beam guessing game, Mega Metagross got some crazy buffs with Heavy Slam and Knock Off so it feels like a bit of a trading machine, and Mega Excadrill feels like its mostly kept in check by Skarm being on 90% of the teams (and even that is one flinch away from getting cooked). I haven't seen many of the other Megas like Delphox, Alakazam, Chesnaught, Barbarracle, Tyranitar, Lopunny, Mawile or Scizor for some reaons - I'm guessing its because of oppurtunity cost or issues with staple blanket checks like Scizor / Tyranitar? Barely saw several other megas like Mega Diancie as well.
As an aside, Flower Veil is an awesome ability for Mega Meganium - Makes it a really nice check to Zygarde since its immune to Para / Toxic - and it has a few other nice MUs like against the Toxic Eq Garchomp and most Krookidiles.. It is a bit weak to spikes though and it really doesn't like how common Sand / Snow are because of Gking / Ttar / Hippo since that eats into Synthesis. Clef MU also sucks and it doesn't like random Poison coverage on mons like Gren, Garchomp etc. Still, it def can cook.
I'd like to remind some people that 
now gets Sword Dance and to show you calcs with it.
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 316-375 (91.8 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Return vs. 248 HP / 112+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 193-228 (49.1 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 253-298 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 211-249 (84 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja-Mega: 372-438 (130.5 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 171-202 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Lopunny is cooking the entire Meta. If you let Sword Dance one (very easy in this economy when you have Parting Shot Sableye) it can run through 99% of the available Pokemon.
The 1% that aren't immediately eviscerated are Mega Slowbro and Clefable who is playing as the Gen 8 Ubers Quagsire role where 1 slip up or some bad luck, you lose your Clefable.
So basically you just have Mega Slowbro as an answer.
Now if only there was a Dark type with massive SpA to target Slowbro's frailer defenses and good special bulk allowing it to switch in easily...
Oh wait
now gets Sword Dance and to show you calcs with it.+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 316-375 (91.8 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Return vs. 248 HP / 112+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 193-228 (49.1 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 253-298 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 211-249 (84 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja-Mega: 372-438 (130.5 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 171-202 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Lopunny is cooking the entire Meta. If you let Sword Dance one (very easy in this economy when you have Parting Shot Sableye) it can run through 99% of the available Pokemon.
The 1% that aren't immediately eviscerated are Mega Slowbro and Clefable who is playing as the Gen 8 Ubers Quagsire role where 1 slip up or some bad luck, you lose your Clefable.
So basically you just have Mega Slowbro as an answer.
Now if only there was a Dark type with massive SpA to target Slowbro's frailer defenses and good special bulk allowing it to switch in easily...
Oh wait
Pyroar been one of my fav mons for a while, always needed love. When this dumb shit dropped I won a room tour going away and got to #5 on ladder just abusing Pyroar + hazard control. heres breaking a decent fat by clicking flame 18 times https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2466261739
It is a power crept Zard Y, which is already borderline broken in some formats. Obviously making it Broken Zard Y is bad design, and it has to go.
That being said just giving it Drought makes it a worse Zard Y, only niche being a heavily side graded ZY w more speed. Why be redundant if we tryna make these guys unique. I propose Adaptability for nerfed Pyroar. its stats are mid enough that the boost ain't too much, and unlike current pyr it has consistent counterplay with bulky waters and Tar. He still then has a niche with a nice speed tier and enough power to Revenge KO other slower Megas like Lass. Gross etc.
Lastly again this mod, shoutout dhelmise. is awesome and I and others been having a blast w new fuckers, but I am still not sure what the mission statement is. Is it trying to replicate ZA or be a watered down Nat Dex where we can use new guys. I think some clarity on the Mega design philosophy and goals could be helpful going forward. Like why add boots but not weather rocks or light clay? Just seems arbitrary
It is a power crept Zard Y, which is already borderline broken in some formats. Obviously making it Broken Zard Y is bad design, and it has to go.
That being said just giving it Drought makes it a worse Zard Y, only niche being a heavily side graded ZY w more speed. Why be redundant if we tryna make these guys unique. I propose Adaptability for nerfed Pyroar. its stats are mid enough that the boost ain't too much, and unlike current pyr it has consistent counterplay with bulky waters and Tar. He still then has a niche with a nice speed tier and enough power to Revenge KO other slower Megas like Lass. Gross etc.
Lastly again this mod, shoutout dhelmise. is awesome and I and others been having a blast w new fuckers, but I am still not sure what the mission statement is. Is it trying to replicate ZA or be a watered down Nat Dex where we can use new guys. I think some clarity on the Mega design philosophy and goals could be helpful going forward. Like why add boots but not weather rocks or light clay? Just seems arbitrary
SV integration upscale, I think I’ve also seen the same 5 mons on the majority of teams and the centralisation of a smaller Dex limits a lot of the creativity that can come from this meta. Even if “weaker” Pokémon get some spotlight, the addition of a lower tier or two can help significantly in that regard even if that’s more into the future
I'm just gonna repaste what I put in the Discord for more visibility to explain why Meganium losing Triage kills almost all of its viability.
"I don't think people actually understood how to use Meganium, because with Triage it checked almost the entire metagame without issue while having enough firepower to threaten stuff and even remove threats like MLop, MMie, and Gallade. Now, it physically cannot do that. Not only does removing Triage heavily nerf Meganium as a defensive piece and setup punisher, but the replacement ability in Flower Veil literally is useless in comparison. Stopping it from being statused is cool in theory, but the only matchups that helps with are versus Garchomp and Zygarde. Not just that, but Meganium has no viable niche currently outside of the hyperspecific stallbreaker set of STAB/Knock/DTail/Synth created by Fusien. Outside of this one set that only works ok VERY specific teams that need a stallbreaker that also answers Zygarde, there's no reason to use Meganium.
As to compare Meganium to a good Mega, it's generally just a better idea to use Chesnaught now since it has Spikes + Knock while Meganium doesn't. Chesnaught notably checks everything Meganium does bar Dragonite. Meganium used to have an incredibly interesting niche that made it worth using on a variety of teams, whereas now it doesn't. I say this as someone who actively used Meganium before to great success, so I know what I'm talking about here. Hell, the only reason I didn't top ladder with it before the patch is because I don't have the time. The state Meganium is in currently makes it feel like Mega Latias in CG ND - it's usable, its technically viable, but I wouldn't ever suggest using it outside of very specific scenarios.
TL;DR Meganium needs Triage to properly function in the current meta and the removal of Triage has only hurt it"
Can you please ban Zygarde? This pokemon is uber every generation since it has Thousand Arrows, is clearly too powerful for this metagame as we lack very powerful grass type mons, and is one of the most annoying pokemons to face ever created. It makes the metagame way less funny
Why you guys ruined Mega MEGANIUM and removed triage ??
Give it something good for God's sake... Since it's dex entry says it can throw very strong solarbeams, adaptability or drought might work.... Even multiscale works too with the thick layer it have on its body... Altho triage was the best :) ( also why it doesn't have growth ? )
Give it something good for God's sake... Since it's dex entry says it can throw very strong solarbeams, adaptability or drought might work.... Even multiscale works too with the thick layer it have on its body... Altho triage was the best :) ( also why it doesn't have growth ? )
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Why can't greninja mega evolve? It has the stone and I have no other mega in the team. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2466372753-9e6skk9ioxabway4h4im24bdiu7l592pw (trollsanspeur)
dhelmise bbond gren isnt able to mega