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SPOILERS! Legends ZA Data Dumps - Adding Info to OP

Updated the OP with more information including some of the images of the stat distros etc

Should be more readable now/have more information.

As I've said: Take all the movepool info with a grain of salt for speculation on stuff for Champions/Gen 10. GF are known to just change stuff willy nilly and remove/add as they want.
 
I must say I'm quite looking forward to using Mega Delphox and Chesnaught. The boost in stats they seem to have gotten look ideal for them. Also could see their current VGC niches expanding with better speed and special attack for Delphox for psyspam teams and bigger starting defense for ID+BP.
 
bdt2002 said:
Just reviewed the entire paste-bin for the new learnsets and I can confidently say Chandelure is absolutely the biggest winner here. Granted, it was already decent in Gen 6, but 110 defenses, 175 Special Attack (which I believe breaks Mega Gengar’s record for Ghosts) and an extra 10 Speed is big for it. This will get banned if it has a good Ability. Friendly reminder that Pursuit’s not in the game anymore and in Champion’s you’re going to be able to bluff which generational mechanic you’re using- this could be a Mega or it could be a Terastalized Chandelure just as easily.
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'Cept... you can't bluff. Base Chandelure is bad no matter what, you're using Mega or bust here. And unless it gets a cracked ability that boosts its speed or supercharges its already high power it isn't getting banned as it has natural checks offensively and defensively, and its rock weakness holds it back alongside mid speed.

Magcargo said:
Some additional thoughts now that I've looked at the megas a bit more.

Slow pivoting on Mrga Sableye will be nice if it keeps parting shot. I could see it being nice on base sabeleye as well to like, debuff a mon like Wellspring before swapping out to a real check. That said, Dark-types being super common will be annoying for it. Still, I think a lot of teams will have use for this mon as an anti Hazard pivot. A big issue though is that it will worsen its 4MSS even more.

I think Meganium will def have a place, but it does suffer from "invalidated by GKING / torn-T Syndrome" that most defensive grasses suffer from. It's big issue is the lack of utility moves, though it at least gets Knoxk Off as a progress making tool.

Mega Scrafty could be OP vs defensive teams with Bulk Up / Dragon Dance, depends on what its final ability is. Those stats buffs are really nice for it, especially the bulk.

Mega Greninja is a wild card. Not sure about the stats since it is noticeably worse than ash Gren imo, but getting Nasty Plot is crazy and could push it to ubers. I could also see it being worse than your average Boots Darkrai set due to hazard chip so its a 50-50. The bulk increase is nice for these set up strats at least.

Mega eelektross was one i was hyped for but it looks to be mediocre. No bulk increases is very unfortunate and its other stats like speed and attack dont seem high enough. Coil will probably be better at least.

Mega Starmie is a weirdo. I am glad its stats, specifically its bulk, power, and speed, are up to snuff with modern standards, but getting huge power is just such a weird direction to go with it. Really need to see what it gets in the next games to properly comment on it. At this point, I would have preferred it if those points into its attack were distributed into its other stats like Speed and bulk.

Mega Frosslass will be cool offensive spiker with good offensive STAB combo, with Wisp to cripple its various checks.

I like Mega Chandelures extra bulk and power, but wasting 20 points on attack is lame and I am not sure it is fast enough. I also dont think the extra bulk makes up for Stealth Rock weakness. At least 90 speed is noticeably better than 80.

Mega Dragonite is weird and I think we need to wait till champions to see if it gets another ability as it stands, im not sure a special attacking set will be better than standard boots or Dragon Dance Dragonite. At least 100 speed is a significant step up from 80, letting it beat out key targets like Great Tusk, Kyurem, and a few others like Urshifu.

Mega Emboar looks decent. Really good bulk + good moves like Knock Off and Drain Punch should let it run a solid bulk up set, and it even has other cool options like Wisp and Scald for checks like Lando-T. That said, idk how all of this will come together in practice.

I think mega Excadrill improved the wrong stats (wanted special defense not defense) but the extra speed and attack should let it compete as strong breaker or sweeper. Extra bulk will help vs Gambit too.

Mega scolipede has a really weird stat spread so idk how it will perform. That stab combo is also still bad. It should be able to do some speed boost SD shenanigans at least.

Most of this speculation is pointless w/o abilities to go off of but its still fun lol
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Moveslot is another issue Sableye has even on stall that tends to go understated, but it really does never have enough room. Like you need recover and knock off, you want wisp for burns, maybe hex for damage after burns, many run protect for scouting, and parting shot would take another mandatory slot. I dunno.

Meganium does have Knock/Leech seed so at least there's that, and being able to knock boots off Zapdos/Moltres or items off Torn/Corv is still cool. Statwise it is VERY similar to Mega Venusaur so they seem to fulfill similar roles. The typing is the difference here.

Not too sold on Scrafty being crazy yet, I think it'll be good, but the typing's vulnerability to fairies, fighters and flyers definitely can limit it. Though the bulk is real nice Dragon Dance. No matter what, some lower tier is getting bulldozed by it at least.

For Greninja, I think the speed is the main take away. 142 ties Dragapult putting it ahead of most everything else. What's real interesting is it not only has Nasty Plot but also Swords Dance, so it could pull a "what set am I" play and be hard to prep for due to that and its wide movepool. So I could see it getting banned off that.

Eelektross I agree with you on. It's definitely lacking the extra bulk needed since it lacks many resists (come on GF you could've given it flying sub type, would've fit the design). That said I expect low ladder OU to fiddle with it for a while because levitate+electric.

Starmie I think your underestimating. Assuming it follows Medicham and Mawile and has around 100 attack in Champions, that's still a high 598 and with Liquidation you have a strong enough STAB off enormous attack, and the high 130 special means you can run mixed unlike other power megas and thus lure in checks to beat down with special coverage. TBolt smacks waters, Ice Beam for Dragons... and you have Rapid Spin for hazard control. And super powerful Rapid Spin at that that does big chip. I personally think it's gonna be broken, especially since 120 speed also makes offensively answering it a nightmare.

Froslass also gets Nasty Plot so it can go the sweeper route, which thanks to its nearly unresisted STAB combo is pretty exciting. I think it's one of the most underrated new Megas right now and can't wait to try it eventually.

Chandelure... it's a wallbreaker honestly straight and simple. With strong hazard control I can see it being pretty solid, especially as the improved defenses lets it be useful defensively now, but I dunno if it'll be too good overall.

Dragonite I think is fascinating because its Mega basically is a sidegrade that gives it a new avenue to attack from. Typical checks like Great Tusk, Zamazenta and the elemental birds get smoked by Mega Dragonite's special attacking prowess, and you could feasibly run it on rain with Hurricane/Draco/Thunder/Roost. I think Mega itself is super fine, but it in conjunction with Dnite base form's already high versatility may finally be too much to account for.

And yeah agree it's fun to speculate.
 
Sulfurian said:
In the case of Meganium this also happened with learn sets in Legends Arceus. For example Overqwil had only dark pulse for STAB and no crunch. They'll most likely fix this with a legends day 1 patch or future gens/champions will give it moon blast or equivalent.
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I posted that before we got to see the TM learnsets; it gets Dazzling Gleam by TM, so the STAB situation's been fixed. Hopefully it gets Moonblast going into Champions, it's odd that it's positioned as a Special tank but doesn't get the best Fairy move for both offense and defense.
 
Moyashi said:
'Cept... you can't bluff. Base Chandelure is bad no matter what, you're using Mega or bust here. And unless it gets a cracked ability that boosts its speed or supercharges its already high power it isn't getting banned
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Plot twist, this thing gets the shadow tag that never released in BW back and never surfaces anything outside VGC.

That being said I do wonder how strong chandelure on a webs team would turn out, it has the movepool and defenses to floor stall effortless whether thats with taunt or calm mind sweeping.

With that special attack you might be allowed to do something gimmicky like flame charge too.
 
Just A Seaking said:
I posted that before we got to see the TM learnsets; it gets Dazzling Gleam by TM, so the STAB situation's been fixed. Hopefully it gets Moonblast going into Champions, it's odd that it's positioned as a Special tank but doesn't get the best Fairy move for both offense and defense.
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Some fairies do be like that. Togekiss not getting Moonblast in most games. Still Dazzling Gleam is better than nothing. A certain other Grass/Fairy type doesn't even get a STAB (at least for it's primary attack stat).
 
Interesting to note is that Mega Greninja is offensively weaker than Ash-Greninja, but also faster than it. Here's a visual:

Ash-Gren: attack: 145, special attack: 153, speed: 132
Mega-Gren: attack: 125, special attack: 133, speed 142, and it got 10 points in both defenses.

I do hope the dlc being dimensions based allows us an Ash-Greninja and Mega to coexist.
 
Guys what if Mega Chandelure gets Shadow Tag 1760308251055.png
 
Mario With Lasers said:
Unfortunately they're both Ghosts so they can switch out
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True though it could be a interesting question in a metagame sense. Will people just default to the stronger, bulkier one? I feel for a lot of Shadow Tag shenanigans especially in VGC that more staying power would likely be more desirable. And if they both have Shadow Tag it could be a Garchomp, Flygon situation where why would you use one if the other is available?
 
I get mad at things like Electross and Victerebell: why did they maintain the mixed attacker stats? It just further hurts the pokemon viability here. They actually have problems like low bulk and speed, and the Megas stat wise don't even fix it. Its like they were given to a designer who didn't know what to do with them and so increased what they were already good it. Of course they actually min max shitmons like Falinks but others have to deal with useless 10 or 20 points into attack when its primarily a special attacker. It just enrages me and defeats the whole point of buffing a bad pokemon with 100 points.
 
Ironmage said:
Gengar's probably still stronger with the better speed and Destiny Bond, but considering it's sitting in AG Chandelure is all but guaranteed to show up more.
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Being realistic, if Mega Chandelure gets STag it'll get the axe too. Or Ubers will just kick out the ability like in gen8 Ubers.
 
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