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SPOILERS! Legends ZA Data Dumps - Adding Info to OP

CTNC said:
Zygarde is a lore problem for RSE and B2W2 too because Kyogre and Groudon are about as extreme as ecological disasters as you can get and Team Plasma's Kyurem powered cannon being used in a plot to freeze the entire Unova region kind of threatens that region's ecosystem.

I think the real answer for why Zygarde didn't show up is because shut up. :P
Putting it more seriously, the lore between games is kind of loose so Zygarde not taking action is probably going to be a plothole in later games too.
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I did consider RSE and my assumption (beyond "Zygarde didn't exist yet") was "The problem was Kyogre and Groudon. That's Rayquaza's fix, Zygarde ain't one to step on another legendary's toes (unless that other legendary is the problem)." Heck, maybe Zygarde is the one who tasked Rayquaza with being Kyogre and Groudon's mediator, since as you said they are very extreme ecological disasters.

I have a similar thought regarding DPPt, though it's less "that's Giratina's problem" and more "what can Zygarde do against Arceus's direct underlings?" (even though I think Zygarde is stronger competitively, in-game strength does not always match lore.)

I hadn't considered B2W2 at all. I considered B1W1 and went "Ghetsis's plan would suck for humans but wouldn't really affect the ecosystem" and then completely forgot that the script changed in the sequel.
 
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Mario With Lasers said:
Whoever speaks ill of Starmie is my sworn enemy btw
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same

my-image(2).png
 
So someone found out that for Diance and Mewtwo missions one has to have their Mega Stones. Which we don't know how to unlock... yet.

BTW, is it only me or it takes quite long for the final datamines? Stuff like Trainer data, etc.
 
Lord Godwin said:
So someone found out that for Diance and Mewtwo missions one has to have their Mega Stones. Which we don't know how to unlock... yet.

BTW, is it only me or it takes quite long for the final datamines? Stuff like Trainer data, etc.
Click to expand...
Kaphotics would datamine all that when the game drops. Maybe we'll finally get the TM list lol
 
Mario With Lasers said:
me1mrPW.png


Whoever speaks ill of Starmie is my sworn enemy btw
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no like.. speak it sistren...

The way I was absolutely fearful of its mega, and then with the leaks / screenshots I was in so much denial, even when it was confirmed and leaked I was furious but seeing it run.. seeing it bolt around like it's genuinely studied the way human's move (but also can't fully replicate due to weird limbs) is so fucking funny and goofy, like.. I can't be mad at her. I love her
 
Lord Godwin said:
So someone found out that for Diance and Mewtwo missions one has to have their Mega Stones. Which we don't know how to unlock... yet.

BTW, is it only me or it takes quite long for the final datamines? Stuff like Trainer data, etc.
Click to expand...
I don't know a whole lot about datamining, but I imagine it's taking a while because things haven't gone live which is limiting their ability to look into it as much? I find it hard that the genuine Day 1 patch was datamined fully (but again.. I know next to nothing)

I imagine once it's fully released tomorrow and everyone has their own copies, including Switch 2 stuff, we'll get everything needed.

Also.. from like a human perspective, people have lives and probably just don't want to piss Nintendo off in anyway
 
Perriechu said:
I don't know a whole lot about datamining, but I imagine it's taking a while because things haven't gone live which is limiting their ability to look into it as much? I find it hard that the genuine Day 1 patch was datamined fully (but again.. I know next to nothing)

I imagine once it's fully released tomorrow and everyone has their own copies, including Switch 2 stuff, we'll get everything needed.

Also.. from like a human perspective, people have lives and probably just don't want to piss Nintendo off in anyway
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The game files have been totally dumped so the data is there if someone with the know how wants to go through it. But kaphotics and co don’t usually post anything until release now, and they’re the ones who usually do a proper deep dive.

My rough mega tier list for good measure:
my-image.png


I think as a whole it’s a really good crop of megas. The only ones I actively dislike are the d tier.
 
CTNC said:
Zygarde is a lore problem for RSE and B2W2 too because Kyogre and Groudon are about as extreme as ecological disasters as you can get and Team Plasma's Kyurem powered cannon being used in a plot to freeze the entire Unova region kind of threatens that region's ecosystem.

I think the real answer for why Zygarde didn't show up is because shut up. :P
Putting it more seriously, the lore between games is kind of loose so Zygarde not taking action is probably going to be a plothole in later games too.
Click to expand...

I mean, not really. In both of those cases the incidents lasted for like... a couple of days at most, probably (in-universe). In the Hoenn case, Zygarde probably just didn't get there in time. That's assuming it even noticed - the weather distortion is severe, but it's only localised to Sootopolis; in Emerald it spreads a little further, but still only as far as Pacifidlog and Lilycove. Wallace and Steven say that if it continues it'll spread to all of Hoenn and then the world, but it's quelled before it can ever get that close to going that far. If you lived on the other side of Hoenn, you might not have even heard much about it beyond hearing a news story.

In the Unova case, Kyurem doesn't actually freeze the entire Unova region, just mostly one city (enough to spill over a little to the surrounding routes, but still just that one city). That's not really an ecological disaster, just a freak incident localised to a small area - and not even particularly far from Kyurem's natural habitat. On a worldwide scale it'd hardly register, though I think it they had gotten as far as locking Unova into a perpetual winter* it'd have been something worthy of catching Zygarde's attention.

Given the sort of real-world pollution that goes on, like oil spills and river fouling and city smog, you'd think Zygarde would have its work cut out for it... the Pokemon world really must take that stuff more seriously. Which, in fairness, lots of NPCs do attest to.



More on-topic - are we allowed to discuss the other leaks anywhere, just out of interest?



*very Chronicles of Narnia, that thought. I wonder if anyone's written that particular fanfic...
 
R_N said:
Notably neither of these involved a toilet seat that stuck out of their neck to make them look younger

It's the seat that's the real problem here. Like I think looking like totodile is cute, clever even. Just like. Dont have it jut out so much....
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Yeah I also think the vision for some of these Megas for sure changed. We went from "what if that pokemon could evolve again? Or if it could evolve what would it look like?" To "the mega energy needs to go somewhere, where is it going?" In gator's case the energy went into their red scales which is fine, but his arms being stretched so far just to have a bigger attack doesn't seem natural or comfortable for it. Plus it just feels too anime. Like in Naruto when they had a chakra cloak, but in this case it feels off. Like the helmet could just fall off his back from too much damage and feel extremely painful. All this to callback totodile...or maybe they saw all the "I bite" memes with Fuecoco and were like "mega bigger bite! They'll love it"
 
Rot8er_ConeX said:
I did consider RSE and my assumption (beyond "Zygarde didn't exist yet") was "The problem was Kyogre and Groudon. That's Rayquaza's fix, Zygarde ain't one to step on another legendary's toes (unless that other legendary is the problem)." Heck, maybe Zygarde is the one who tasked Rayquaza with being Kyogre and Groudon's mediator, since as you said they are very extreme ecological disasters.

I have a similar thought regarding DPPt, though it's less "that's Giratina's problem" and more "what can Zygarde do against Arceus's direct underlings?" (even though I think Zygarde is stronger competitively, in-game strength does not always match lore.)

I hadn't considered B2W2 at all. I considered B1W1 and went "Ghetsis's plan would suck for humans but wouldn't really affect the ecosystem" and then completely forgot that the script changed in the sequel.
Click to expand...
The way I see is that those events also happened *really* fast, so it's not like Zygarde get there before they got resolved anyway. Right as Groudon and Kyogre woke up to face each other, the player went to find Rayquaza and it stopped the conflict. Similar to DPP, right as Cyrus took control of Palkia and Dialga, Giratina instantly showed up. There wasn't even time for it to get there unless it already was on the region, rather than being a power gap thing (as, despite "space and time" sounding really impressive, I never really saw Palkia or Dialga really being presented as being ahead of other restricted legendaries on any media, and if anything, the anime movies showed them as arguably below Mega Rayquaza)

And oh dang, someone posted the same thing about time 22 minutes before me while I didn't have internet lol
 
I have thoughts, but I wouldn't say I have tight rankings, so here's said thoughts in approximate Dex order.

Raichu-X: No interest, prompt was probably unworkable from the start

Raichu-Y: You know, it actually looks decent in its key art. The horns or whatever look fine as ears, so as long as the actual pikachu ears are hidden behind them it comes off as better than most pikaclones. I'd never want to actually use one, though, given that illusion fails when looking at it from the rear.

Clefable: It's fine, I guess. Considering all the Fairy-types I like are objectmons, Steel-types, or Iron Valiant, I'm not really in any position to judge.

Victreebel: Having a hard time beating the "should have been Roserade" allegations.

Starmie: Listen, I can respect some throwbacks to cheesy but entertaining shows or movies. But I also like my ocean invertebrates, and echinoderms have plenty of their own weirdness you could have amped up instead, you know?

Dragonite: Man, I could just never get passionate about reptiles. Shuffling around some of the extra features doesn't seem to have changed that.

Meganium: Man, I could just never get passionate about reptiles. Shuffling around some of the extra features doesn't seem to have changed that.

Feraligatr: Man, I could just never get passionate about reptiles. Shuffling around some of the extra features doesn't seem to have changed that.

Skarmory: The black is a bit whatever, but the gold/brass is nice. Hits the other listed metal for its mythological inspiration. Speaking of, apparently the Stymphalian Birds also had particularly poisonous dung. Unaddressed lack of Toxic aside, I can't say I'm big on the talons.

Frosslass: Looks pretty good. Noticeably unnatural proportions work well with a mysterious spirit.

Emboar: I can't help but feel that because they went for minor changes to the body, it once again just ends up as following Blaziken's pattern once again. Uncertain as to how much the weapon carries it out of that.

Excadrill: Cautiously optimistic about seeing it in action. It's always had the drill stance as part of its design, but that hasn't really featured in its animations for the main games.

Scolipede: How are you intending to U-turn if only your front half is armoured? Of course, if the Ability incentivizes staying in, that's a moot point and it's pretty minor anyway.

scrafty: Man, I could just never get passionate about reptiles. Shuffling around some of the extra features doesn't seem to have changed that.

Eelektross: Feels like its overstrained its Ability slot. Levitate's the line's gimmick, but the copies should be used for something, right? I like that the tons of slime is referencing hagfish, the other existing group of jawless fish.

Chandelure: Perfection is hard to improve on. It's simple, but I wouldn't make any major changes.

Chesnaught: Not quite interesting enough in either of its stances, hopefully the animations are set up so the transition between the shoulder pads and the definitely-not-an-axe-what-is-the-official-website-on works well.

Delphox: Overall pretty decent, but I feel like it would have been improved by having the flames be on the other end of the smaller sticks (having them be weapons levitated psychically rather than extra propulsion not doing much).

Greninja: Well at least we're finally done with Ash Greninja.

Pyroar: I'll let this one be my "so goofy it's good" pick

Malamar: Much like with Starmie, I get the supervillain vibes but would have liked a little more squid.

Hawlucha: We're sure this isn't a Unite skin?

Dragalge: Remains to be seen if it can get the mechanics to match its dex lore.

Barbaracle: About what I would have expected. Would have been cool if it got a crab stance rather than staying on two legs since barnacles are technically crustaceans.

Zygarde: The big thing would have worked much better as an orb.

Floette-eternal: It works.

Drampa: Man, I could just never get passionate about reptiles. Shuffling around some of the extra features doesn't seem to have changed that.

Falinks: Kind of wins by default since there's so few gen 8 mons I remember, let alone have positive opinions on. I'll still grumble about it being right-handed, though.
 
we doin' tierlists? yayuh
my-image (4).png

As one of about 8 Barbaracle fans out there, I ate GOOD, both between looks and stat/type changes. Scolipede is peak design but man, stats are looking very iffy. Didn't expect to like Froslass or Drampa this much, especially Drampa.

I originally didn't like Starmie and was hoping it was fake, but it has grown on me MASSIVELY, between its goofy movements, dex entry, and ridiculous role shift. I already liked Hawlucha a lot, so not changing much is great. I liked Chesnaught a bit as it was, and this one's just cooler, so yeah big ups. Falinks i think its a fun idea and fine execution. Delphox found out how to slay with two beards. Big fan of Malamar leaning to the alien supervillain mastermind trope, but the stats honestly took it down a peg. Scrafty's just cooool, but ik what a lot of people will say about it. Eelektoss' main draw was being a FREAKAZOID, and Mega Eelektross is a SUPER FREAKAZOID is good. Mega Zygarde is like, kinda uncertain, but i like the concept of Zygarde looking a bit naked bc its focusing majority of its cells to make BIG LAZER.

I already liked Emboar, the mega's fine. Mega Greninja is also alright. Mega Dragalge is one that i have no idea what to think of. Mega Meganium's aight, as someone who's never cared about Meganium. Dragonite is just more Dragonite, and I've never been big on Dragonite, so its kinda whatever but no issues with it. Chandelure's also aite. and so is Eternal Floette, neither invoke any feeling to me.

Mega Excadrill i'd want to like more, but I feel like its trying too hard to be a what it always was, a drill. Skarmory... idk man if it didn't become gold for some reason almost nothing would've changed. Clefable idc about base, idc about the mega. Mega Victreebell makes me feel weird. Not THAT upset at Mega Gatr could've been so much better.

The Raichus to me are the worst thing you could've shown to advertise a DLC lmao. Pyroar, lmao. I never cared about Pyroar before this, and this has as much aura as white bread, but less useful.
 
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Rot8er_ConeX said:
So I took a nap earlier and as I was falling asleep I had a thought.

AZ says that Zygarde goes where it needs to to protect the ecosystem. This is information we knew already, but the way it's reiterated in this game specifically to justify Zygarde's inclusion in SuMo, shows that this is a global travel method, not just within Kalos or even PokeEurope.

We don't know if the Pokémon world's geography is 1:1 with the real world's, but if it is, Kalos and Paldea are right next to each other. Which means that even without a global travel method, Zygarde would have an easy time getting to Paldea.

And yet...it isn't in ScaVio in any way. Does this mean that the ecosystem in Paldea wasn't in jeopardy from the time machine, and the AI Professor's worries were unfounded? Or did Zygarde know that the player had it under control?
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In addition to what others have said about incidents like that just happening to be resolved in short order, it’s probably worth looking at the specific dialogue that talks about why Zygarde was in Alola:

“When Zygarde used up its strength protecting Pokémon from the light of the ultimate weapon... its parts scattered to far-off places, absorbing the power of those lands and seeking humans who would give it aid. And now that I think of it... The moves that Zygarde used when it Mega Evolved—they reminded me of Z-Moves, like those used in the Alola region. But perhaps I am reading too much into it.”

So it didn’t actually go to Alola to intervene in any particular environmental crisis, despite Dexio and Sina theorizing in USUM that it was responding to the Ultra Beasts. Its cells scattered there so that it could recover its strength.

Essentially, Zygarde just went on a Hawaiian vacation to de-stress after dealing with Lysandre’s bullshit.
 
Lord Godwin said:
So someone found out that for Diance and Mewtwo missions one has to have their Mega Stones. Which we don't know how to unlock... yet.

BTW, is it only me or it takes quite long for the final datamines? Stuff like Trainer data, etc.
Click to expand...
Ah see my thought on reading that is those stones are either going to be wi-fi gifts, save data gifts, or (sigh) the round of online competitive season rewards after chesnaught.

Which if true really mucks up my theory on Zeraora, Heatran & Darkrai but such is life.
 
Esserise said:
In addition to what others have said about incidents like that just happening to be resolved in short order, it’s probably worth looking at the specific dialogue that talks about why Zygarde was in Alola:

“When Zygarde used up its strength protecting Pokémon from the light of the ultimate weapon... its parts scattered to far-off places, absorbing the power of those lands and seeking humans who would give it aid. And now that I think of it... The moves that Zygarde used when it Mega Evolved—they reminded me of Z-Moves, like those used in the Alola region. But perhaps I am reading too much into it.”

So it didn’t actually go to Alola to intervene in any particular environmental crisis, despite Dexio and Sina theorizing in USUM that it was responding to the Ultra Beasts. Its cells scattered there so that it could recover its strength.

Essentially, Zygarde just went on a Hawaiian vacation to de-stress after dealing with Lysandre’s bullshit.
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Multiple things can be true I suppose, but the guardians did a good job keeping things in check without him. I also think its funny thinking about where Zygarde was in other scenarios. Many have already been discussed but I think Hisui is hilarious.

"Hey Arceus, Im detecting a lot of distortion in your area, as well as pokemon being sent across time and space that can mess with the natural order. Need me to come over?"

"Nah don't worry, I got my best agent on it"

The one kid who gets isekai'd back into Hisui:
 
Count Bleck said:
Multiple things can be true I suppose, but the guardians did a good job keeping things in check without him. I also think its funny thinking about where Zygarde was in other scenarios. Many have already been discussed but I think Hisui is hilarious.

"Hey Arceus, Im detecting a lot of distortion in your area, as well as pokemon being sent across time and space that can mess with the natural order. Need me to come over?"

"Nah don't worry, I got my best agent on it"

The one kid who gets isekai'd back into Hisui:
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I also think Zygarde evolved into existence from the actual planet itself, instead of being created by Arceus it was created from Arceus' creation, if that makes sense. Perhaps in response to more deadly tragedies happening because of the various evil teams, like Plasma or Team Flare causing nuclear level threats that didn't have a legendary already taking care of it.
 
Take the most narratively convenient option for why Zygarde didnt intervene in any other crisis: Zygarde seems like someone who only steps in when it feels it has to.

Maybe add a parenthetical about mostly caring about Kalos above the others.

e: Why didn't it step up in Hoenn? -> Rayquaza is there its fine. Also the player resolved it within like 30 minutes.
Why didn't it step up in Sinnoh? -> The Lake Spirits are there its fine. Also Giratina is there its fine. Also the player resolved it within like 30 minutes.
Why didn't it step up in the other timeline Sinnoh where Giratina made a big hole? -> The player resolved it within like 30 minutes
Why didn't it step up in Hisui? -> Arceus's weird isekai adventure is going on its fine. Ain't touching that nonsense.

and so on and so forth. Let grandpa snake just read its papers
 
Kaphotics has posted most of his datamine info on his GitHub in a nice, streamlined layout. We finally got the TM list.

There are 107 TMs in Legends: Z-A. Just like Scarlet & Violet, the TMs use 000 numbering instead of 00.
TM001: Headbutt
TM002: Dragon Claw
TM003: Psyshock
TM004: Rock Smash
TM005: Roar
TM006: Calm Mind
TM007: Toxic
TM008: Thunder Wave
TM009: Flip Turn
TM010: Brick Break
TM011: Bulk Up
TM012: Rock Slide
TM013: Ice Beam
TM014: Fire Fang
TM015: Ice Fang
TM016: Light Screen
TM017: Protect
TM018: Power-Up Punch
TM019: Power Gem
TM020: Play Rough
TM021: Thunder Fang
TM022: Aerial Ace
TM023: Thunder Punch
TM024: Ice Punch
TM025: Crunch
TM026: Energy Ball
TM027: Swift
TM028: Dig
TM029: Fire Punch
TM030: Swords Dance
TM031: Reflect
TM032: Double Team
TM033: Body Slam
TM034: Night Slash
TM035: Endure
TM036: Rock Tomb
TM037: Stealth Rock
TM038: Fire Blast
TM039: Discharge
TM040: Bullet Seed
TM041: Water Pulse
TM042: Giga Drain
TM043: Fly
TM044: Hyper Beam
TM045: Knock Off
TM046: Mud Shot
TM047: Agility
TM048: Self-Destruct
TM049: Icy Wind
TM050: Overheat
TM051: Safeguard
TM052: Earth Power
TM053: Sludge Bomb
TM054: Draco Meteor
TM055: Giga Impact
TM056: Double-Edge
TM057: Will-O-Wisp
TM058: Iron Head
TM059: Zen Headbutt
TM060: Future Sight
TM061: Shadow Claw
TM062: Flamethrower
TM063: Psychic
TM064: Solar Beam
TM065: Stone Edge
TM066: Volt Switch
TM067: Thunderbolt
TM068: Heat Wave
TM069: Earthquake
TM070: Whirlpool
TM071: Hyper Voice
TM072: Fire Spin
TM073: Surf
TM074: Shadow Ball
TM075: Dragon Pulse
TM076: Liquidation
TM077: Poison Jab
TM078: Bulldoze
TM079: Hurricane
TM080: Iron Defense
TM081: X-Scissor
TM082: U-turn
TM083: Nasty Plot
TM084: Flash Cannon
TM085: Substitute
TM086: Wild Charge
TM087: Iron Tail
TM088: Spikes
TM089: Toxic Spikes
TM090: Dark Pulse
TM091: Curse
TM092: Dazzling Gleam
TM093: Outrage
TM094: Whirlwind
TM095: Taunt
TM096: Hydro Pump
TM097: Heal Block
TM098: Waterfall
TM099: Metronome
TM100: Gunk Shot
TM101: Electroweb
TM102: Focus Blast
TM103: Work Up
TM104: Flare Blitz
TM105: Blizzard
TM106: Thunder
TM107: Close Combat
 
MC Squared said:
Kaphotics has posted most of his datamine info on his GitHub in a nice, streamlined layout. We finally got the TM list.

There are 107 TMs in Legends: Z-A. Just like Scarlet & Violet, the TMs use 000 numbering instead of 00.
TM001: Headbutt
TM002: Dragon Claw
TM003: Psyshock
TM004: Rock Smash
TM005: Roar
TM006: Calm Mind
TM007: Toxic
TM008: Thunder Wave
TM009: Flip Turn
TM010: Brick Break
TM011: Bulk Up
TM012: Rock Slide
TM013: Ice Beam
TM014: Fire Fang
TM015: Ice Fang
TM016: Light Screen
TM017: Protect
TM018: Power-Up Punch
TM019: Power Gem
TM020: Play Rough
TM021: Thunder Fang
TM022: Aerial Ace
TM023: Thunder Punch
TM024: Ice Punch
TM025: Crunch
TM026: Energy Ball
TM027: Swift
TM028: Dig
TM029: Fire Punch
TM030: Swords Dance
TM031: Reflect
TM032: Double Team
TM033: Body Slam
TM034: Night Slash
TM035: Endure
TM036: Rock Tomb
TM037: Stealth Rock
TM038: Fire Blast
TM039: Discharge
TM040: Bullet Seed
TM041: Water Pulse
TM042: Giga Drain
TM043: Fly
TM044: Hyper Beam
TM045: Knock Off
TM046: Mud Shot
TM047: Agility
TM048: Self-Destruct
TM049: Icy Wind
TM050: Overheat
TM051: Safeguard
TM052: Earth Power
TM053: Sludge Bomb
TM054: Draco Meteor
TM055: Giga Impact
TM056: Double-Edge
TM057: Will-O-Wisp
TM058: Iron Head
TM059: Zen Headbutt
TM060: Future Sight
TM061: Shadow Claw
TM062: Flamethrower
TM063: Psychic
TM064: Solar Beam
TM065: Stone Edge
TM066: Volt Switch
TM067: Thunderbolt
TM068: Heat Wave
TM069: Earthquake
TM070: Whirlpool
TM071: Hyper Voice
TM072: Fire Spin
TM073: Surf
TM074: Shadow Ball
TM075: Dragon Pulse
TM076: Liquidation
TM077: Poison Jab
TM078: Bulldoze
TM079: Hurricane
TM080: Iron Defense
TM081: X-Scissor
TM082: U-turn
TM083: Nasty Plot
TM084: Flash Cannon
TM085: Substitute
TM086: Wild Charge
TM087: Iron Tail
TM088: Spikes
TM089: Toxic Spikes
TM090: Dark Pulse
TM091: Curse
TM092: Dazzling Gleam
TM093: Outrage
TM094: Whirlwind
TM095: Taunt
TM096: Hydro Pump
TM097: Heal Block
TM098: Waterfall
TM099: Metronome
TM100: Gunk Shot
TM101: Electroweb
TM102: Focus Blast
TM103: Work Up
TM104: Flare Blitz
TM105: Blizzard
TM106: Thunder
TM107: Close Combat
Click to expand...
Moves that are now teachable that were never before: Discharge, Night Slash, and Heal Block
 
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