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SPOILERS! Legends ZA Data Dumps - Adding Info to OP

Yung Dramps said:
Related but I've been absolutely floored at how lukewarm the response to Mega Zygarde has been, even in this thread. Look I'm sorry but if you can't understand why Dynamicpro Super Robot With A Gigantic Fucking Cannon isn't the coolest legendary Pokemon of all time* you're just not in the zone. Getting designs this maximalist and hot-blooded is something that doesn't happen, like, ever in this franchise. I wanna say Mega Rayquaza and Ultra Necrozma were the last ones?

*I mean I didn't really get it either until like 2 months ago but shhhhhhh
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Personally I’d say Ultra Necrozma is an unusually simple design for that kind of Legendary. It’s very low on extraneous details, making it easy to just doodle on a pad of paper, even for someone with limited artistic skills like me. I agree on Mega Ray though.

With Zygarde, if absolutely nothing else, I like it for not leaning at all into the, what I’ve always felt was very strained and tenuous, Norse mythology theory by not turning it into a giant tree or whatever, and instead smacking everyone in the face with a giant cannon that screams “I’M FROM THE SUPER ROBOT GENRE”

In my tierlist I filed it under “I see the vision, but it’s not ny vision.” Which is to say, I like the concept, I just probably would have gone about the details a bit differently. Like R_N said, one of the things that I too find somewhat off about it are the thin straps holding up the cannon. Like, I suppose it’s wouldn’t be an issue physiologically since Zygarde can levitate, but I would personally prefer a sturdier grip with thicker arms in order to better convey the mass of the cannon.
 
Esserise said:
Personally I’d say Ultra Necrozma is an unusually simple design for that kind of Legendary. It’s very low on extraneous details, making it easy to just doodle on a pad of paper, even for someone with limited artistic skills like me. I agree on Mega Ray though.

With Zygarde, if absolutely nothing else, I like it for not leaning at all into the, what I’ve always felt was very strained and tenuous, Norse mythology theory by not turning it into a giant tree or whatever, and instead smacking everyone in the face with a giant cannon that screams “I’M FROM THE SUPER ROBOT GENRE”

In my tierlist I filed it under “I see the vision, but it’s not ny vision.” Which is to say, I like the concept, I just probably would have gone about the details a bit differently. Like R_N said, one of the things that I too find somewhat off about it are the thin straps holding up the cannon. Like, I suppose it’s wouldn’t be an issue physiologically since Zygarde can levitate, but I would personally prefer a sturdier grip with thicker arms in order to better convey the mass of the cannon.
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This reminds me. I liked that the design concepts from Z [from when the original concept was 2 forms to count Xerneas/Yveltal] that got turned into 10% & Complete were described as "a wolf because it can hunt deer" and "an anti-air battleship"
 
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“And you rage and scream and reach through the Force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end, you cannot touch the shadow. In the end, you do not even want to. In the end, the shadow is all you have left. Because the shadow understands you, the shadow forgives you, the shadow gathers you unto itself—And within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame.”
 
You guys don’t understand. Garchomp REALLY needed a second Mega that’ll also likely have stats resembling Kyurem-W for no reason and thus be a bad as it’s old Mega.
And besides, what’s Flygon gonna use a Mega for?
To become “viable”?
Well Flygon simply needs to just pick himself up from his bootstraps and become viable without these handouts you call “buffs”.
 
See, Flygon not getting a Mega OR Garchomp getting a Mega Revamp are things I could individually shrug off. Both happening in a singular content update is where I draw the line and say the directors are either woefully out of touch or actively screwing with people after a decade.
 
Yung Dramps said:
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“And you rage and scream and reach through the Force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end, you cannot touch the shadow. In the end, you do not even want to. In the end, the shadow is all you have left. Because the shadow understands you, the shadow forgives you, the shadow gathers you unto itself—And within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame.”
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Y'all forgot someone. SLOWKING AND KLEAVOR LOOKING AT GLALIE, FROSLASS, GARDEVOIR AND GALLADE WITH THE DEEPEST ENVY RN.
 
Tatsugiri and Magearna seemingly getting Megas for each of their forms has me thinking about Mega Pyroar again. I’ve never really noticed until now that male and female Pyroar have pretty much the exact same face. The difference in mane style really does do all of the lifting there, so I’m alright with the idea of them having a shared, gender-ambiguous Mega… but I still think the top half of Mega Pyroar’s mane could’ve been made thinner and more elongated in order to capture more of female Pyroar’s essence. Maybe if it weren’t all standing straight up, and flowed back and to the sides a bit more…?

Also been thinking about Feraligatr because of how people keep describing it as a toilet seat, and all I can say is thank god it doesn’t read at all like that to my eyes. I still don’t really like it, of course, but I get much more of an action figure feeling from it, like you could press a lever on its back to make the jaw come down and the arms draw close. Which is a pretty bad vibe for something that’s supposed to be an organic creature, but still… better than a toilet seat.
 
Looking at the returning DLC Pokémon and I gotta say I’m getting a little tired of the Swords of Justice. They got their own questline in SwSh, they got included in SV by virtue of their Paradox counterparts (which were cool, tbf), and, I know this isn’t on Game Freak but they’re also the focus of Go this season. There are cooler Legendaries than these guys…

I see Gholdengo is also back. That gets me wondering, since we don’t yet know how Vivillon patterns work in Z-A, will they maybe have the patterns depend on the postcard feature from Go again instead of the system region?
 
sorry i'm not one to comment much on these kinds of threads but i've seen a lot of posts talking about the counterparts not receiving megas that their the other counterpart has got. and not one person i've seen has mentioned butterfree or clawitzer... :worrywhirl: (especially clawitzer i needed that mega like SOOO baddd...)
 
Esserise said:
Tatsugiri and Magearna seemingly getting Megas for each of their forms has me thinking about Mega Pyroar again. I’ve never really noticed until now that male and female Pyroar have pretty much the exact same face. The difference in mane style really does do all of the lifting there, so I’m alright with the idea of them having a shared, gender-ambiguous Mega… but I still think the top half of Mega Pyroar’s mane could’ve been made thinner and more elongated in order to capture more of female Pyroar’s essence. Maybe if it weren’t all standing straight up, and flowed back and to the sides a bit more…?

Also been thinking about Feraligatr because of how people keep describing it as a toilet seat, and all I can say is thank god it doesn’t read at all like that to my eyes. I still don’t really like it, of course, but I get much more of an action figure feeling from it, like you could press a lever on its back to make the jaw come down and the arms draw close. Which is a pretty bad vibe for something that’s supposed to be an organic creature, but still… better than a toilet seat.
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I say toilet seat just because someone else did and I wasb uilding off it.

It's funny you say action figure, but when I think action figures having something like that, even if it's awkward, I think of something that would likely lay flat against the back (well "flat") and then you'd press a button and Helmet Action would activate. or, if it has to jut out, would be something that looks like it "could" jut out or that uses the rest of the design to obfuscate it. Like I had various beast war toys as a kid and there were all kinds of dodads both transformed & untransformed and if you couldn't cover it with a shell you could at least put it somewhat out of sight or its not as obstrustive to the rest of the design
But the way it's done here it just juts out and is this giant piece of plastic. Really eye catching piece of plastic. The bright red makes sense because its building of feraligatr's scales but it overwhelms the entire rest of the design so you cant stop looking at this giant plastic lid that's just "open".
 
Esserise said:
Tatsugiri and Magearna seemingly getting Megas for each of their forms has me thinking about Mega Pyroar again. I’ve never really noticed until now that male and female Pyroar have pretty much the exact same face. The difference in mane style really does do all of the lifting there, so I’m alright with the idea of them having a shared, gender-ambiguous Mega… but I still think the top half of Mega Pyroar’s mane could’ve been made thinner and more elongated in order to capture more of female Pyroar’s essence. Maybe if it weren’t all standing straight up, and flowed back and to the sides a bit more…?

Also been thinking about Feraligatr because of how people keep describing it as a toilet seat, and all I can say is thank god it doesn’t read at all like that to my eyes. I still don’t really like it, of course, but I get much more of an action figure feeling from it, like you could press a lever on its back to make the jaw come down and the arms draw close. Which is a pretty bad vibe for something that’s supposed to be an organic creature, but still… better than a toilet seat.
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Slowbro-Galar not being able to Mega Evolve is weird when Magearna and Tatsugiri get them.
This probably means both those megas will have designs that take from all the designs. Kind of like how visually G-max Flapple and Appletun are basically the same, as well as the Megas for the Eon twins.
 
lydian said:
sorry i'm not one to comment much on these kinds of threads but i've seen a lot of posts talking about the counterparts not receiving megas that their the other counterpart has got. and not one person i've seen has mentioned butterfree or clawitzer... :worrywhirl: (especially clawitzer i needed that mega like SOOO baddd...)
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Butterfree at least has its G-max. And as for Clawitzer it at least is brand new. Slowbro and Scizors megas have existed for a decade or more now and the fact that GF isn't doing them feels like more of a slight because they're not just counterparts they're evolutionary relatives. I personally find those way more egregious.
 
Clawitzer not getting anything is kinda odd after it and Dragalge have been consistently version exclusives with each other for several games straight. XY, ORAS, USUM, SwSh, and SV. And this is the game taking place in the region they debuted in.

Granted, as a duo they're fairly weird to begin with because they're incredibly asymmetric (they have different BSTs, different evolution levels, and different EXP groups) but it's pretty odd.
 
Cuddly said:
Slowbro-Galar not being able to Mega Evolve is weird when Magearna and Tatsugiri get them.
This probably means both those megas will have designs that take from all the designs. Kind of like how visually G-max Flapple and Appletun are basically the same, as well as the Megas for the Eon twins.
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Could be, but then I would wonder why the data makes it look like Tatsugiri and Magearna have separate Megas for each of their forms whereas Meowstic does not (unlike Pyroar, Meowstic’s gender differences are actually treated as alternate forms).

If it were just a matter of compatibility like with how Mothim technically has Sandy and Trash Cloak forms in the code (that just look identical to Mothim) so that each Tatsugiri has an identical but separate model to Mega into, I would think it would need to be applied to all Pokémon with multiple forms that can Mega Evolve.

Personally, I think on some level, GF see regional forms as effectively being new species, so I could believe that Tatsugiri’s forms could each get their own Mega while Galarian Slowbro doesn’t get one at all.
 
Esserise said:
In addition to what others have said about incidents like that just happening to be resolved in short order, it’s probably worth looking at the specific dialogue that talks about why Zygarde was in Alola:

“When Zygarde used up its strength protecting Pokémon from the light of the ultimate weapon... its parts scattered to far-off places, absorbing the power of those lands and seeking humans who would give it aid. And now that I think of it... The moves that Zygarde used when it Mega Evolved—they reminded me of Z-Moves, like those used in the Alola region. But perhaps I am reading too much into it.”

So it didn’t actually go to Alola to intervene in any particular environmental crisis, despite Dexio and Sina theorizing in USUM that it was responding to the Ultra Beasts. Its cells scattered there so that it could recover its strength.

Essentially, Zygarde just went on a Hawaiian vacation to de-stress after dealing with Lysandre’s bullshit.
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...lmao are they going to retcon Z-moves to Zygarde-moves next
 
Valoo said:
Mattyoukhana started his data mine and came to the same conclusions regarding returning pokemon/new megas for the DLC

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see? i told you man. i told you bro. i'm 100% right, just like i always am. what mega cyclizar theory i dont remember a mega cyclizar theory

oh, and whille i'm replying to a post from a few pages ago,
Sulfurian said:
I also think Zygarde evolved into existence from the actual planet itself, instead of being created by Arceus it was created from Arceus' creation, if that makes sense. Perhaps in response to more deadly tragedies happening because of the various evil teams, like Plasma or Team Flare causing nuclear level threats that didn't have a legendary already taking care of it.
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I feel like this theory makes a lot of sense, and could help differentiate Rayquaza and Zygarde as green planet protector lizards introduced in a generation divisible by 3. Rayquaza is a bit more of a guardian angel, while Zygarde is more like an FFVII lifestream/planet will type of thing.
 
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