Social LGBTQIA+

Crux

Banned deucer.
Uh yeah I'm not saying that my individual experiences "justify a new model of sexuality" and I'm not at all claiming that they "say anything about sexuality and gender as they are constructed"; that's why I specifically clarified that I only had anecdotal evidence in the post. Literally only said that to give context for my confusion and personal beliefs. In fact, I came here so that I could get opinions from people who are more informed about theory

but thanks ig for the quick response, I'll read through want you linked later today
You said that your experiences indicated that there was a distinction between romantic and sexual attraction. That is a new model (i.e the split attraction model) of sexuality. It was literally invented in the last 10 years. That is what the post that you were responding to was talking about - a response from which you are now backpedalling. There is no evidence it actually makes sense as a model of sexuality. That is what I mean in the quotes you mention. But perhaps I am wrong. If you think there are legitimate distinctions there, explain them and explain your experiences if you genuinely subscribe to this view.
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
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OK, see, this shit is unacceptable.

I’ve been reluctant to step in here because I think that discourse overall is a good thing and there’s nothing wrong with criticism of use of models such as the split attraction model. But Crux, for the last two pages, most of what I have seen is you actively discouraging or discounting the experiences of those who are identifying as asexual or aromantic, challenging them to prove what “value” they bring to the LGBTQ+ community, belittling people who share their personal experiences and even going as far as to compare the inclusion of aces and aros into the LGBTQ+ community to forcing feminists to include TERFs and MRAs into their community. This is way beyond anything resembling reasonable discourse, and has turned the corner into outright bullying. It’s unacceptable anywhere and it’s especially unacceptable here, in a space that should be safe for people to share and discuss their experiences.

I’m not asexual or aromantic myself, so I haven’t really wanted to get too involved. A lot of the attacks levied at the asexual and aromantic community do feel unfortunately familiar to me, though. I don’t tend to talk publicly about my own sexuality here for a variety of reasons. My age and position of authority is a big one: I’m 36 years old, which both means that my own experiences are likely not going to be super relevant to those who are significantly younger than me, and also that frankly I’m a bit uncomfortable talking much about sex and sexuality with those that are underage given the ~20 year age gap and authority position I have as a staff member here. Another big one is that I’ve spent the last 13 years in a monogamous heterosexual relationship, and I think there’s a pretty good chance that I will remain in it for the rest of my life (here's hoping!). If you only met me in 2007 or later, you’d have every reason to assume I’m cishet. It means I have a very different lived experience than the majority of what people here have.

But despite all that, I am bisexual, and first identified as such in the late 90s. My first active relationship with another man was in 1999 at the age of 15. I bring this up because the landscape was very different for bisexuals in that period, not just among heterosexual communities but also in gay communities, where I was often dismissed either as someone who was gay but too full of internalized homophobia to openly identify as such, or who was just “toying” with homosexuality to gain entrance into gay spaces that I didn’t belong in. In 2002 I went to Antioch College in Ohio, in what was at the time one of the most radical queer spaces in the world, and yet often found myself excluded for those same reasons. I had a single long term male partner for most of my time in college, interspersed with many shorter term relationships and encounters that were mostly with women, and once again I found myself simultaneously accused of being both a fake gay and being gay but too homophobic to admit it. The concept of bi erasure from queer spaces isn't new: Professor Kenji Yoshino coined the concept of an "epistemic contract" of bisexual erasure between self-identified heterosexuals and homosexuals due to overlapping interests back in 2000, arguing that both communities sought to erase the category of bisexuality because they benefited from the stabilization of exclusive sexual orientation categories and the retention of sex as an important diacritical axis.

Anyhow, I'm not bringing this up to be all "woe is me." I've had a pretty privileged life overall, and the fact that for the majority of my adult life I have reasonably passed as cishet (not necessarily intentionally so, but it's generally the default assumption for dudes that are married to women, especially those with children) has certainly granted me various advantages. The reason I bring all this up is because the anti-ace discourse I have seen levied over the past 5 years or so, and regurgitated by Crux here, feels really shockingly familiar. All the same accusations are coming back up again: that identifying as bi/homosexual but aromantic or asexual but bi/homoromantic is actually offensive and reinforces internalized homophobia, that aces and aros benefit from cishet privilege and therefore shouldn't be included within the LGBTQ+ community, that aces and aros are attempting to "sneak into" spaces that don't belong to them. These are the exact same arguments that I've been hearing for more than 20 years for why bisexuals don't belong in queer spaces.

It feels like gatekeeping, and it feels especially offensive here, where people believe they're entering a safe space where they can discuss who they are and what they're going through, and are met with outright dismissal and exclusion. It's ironic that you compared being "forced" into including aces and aros into the community as equivalent to requiring feminists to include TERFs, because these arguments are really reminiscent of TERF arguments that trans women benefited from male privilege and therefore can't be feminists. Never mind that major depressive episodes and suicidal ideation among self-identified asexuals is often significantly higher than those who identified as heterosexual or homosexual (source1 source2). Never mind that asexuals, especially asexual women, are targets of corrective rape and other sexual violence (source1 source2). Never mind that belittling people for bringing up their own personal and lived experiences and reducing said experiences to "tumblr and twitter takes" as a substitute for actual analysis is nothing but a bad-faith argument to stymie and put down any potential disagreement.

So yeah, if you want to discuss issues with, for example, the split attraction model or how it's used (and while I'm far from an expert on the matter, it seems like a good portion of the ace and aro community agrees that there are issues!), that's fine. But either do it in a way that doesn't put down or attack users and their experiences, or fuck off.
 
tea i was gonna post this but I was kinda nervous but I think that Hogg your previous post gives me more confidence to do that so thank you :)

This is stupid, I was hoping for something nice, productive, or informative, but clearly I'm not going to get that here. Last thing I'm going to say in this thread, probably ever: Crux I think the fact that you deleted a post that said something along the lines of "Fair cop, but still abandon the split attraction model" and replaced it with your post where you accuse me of backpedalling really demonstrates that you are far more interested in being right than being helpful or nice. But I'll defend myself against your last post anyway.

I am not backpedaling: I think the confusion you might have is that you think that just because I have a current thought process, means I think that thought process is correct. If you took the time to actually read what I was saying, you'd notice I
1) specifically asked questions to people who think my current thought process is incorrect
2) admitted that I don't have much knowledge on the topic and exclusively have anecdotal evidence
3) outright stated that I don't want to have an argument and simply wish to be informed
all of which show that I knew that my thought process might be flawed and that I was very willing to change it. So saying that I claimed my personal experience defines sexuality/gender when that's literally the opposite of what I was doing -- denying my own experience in order to search for a more informed opposing opinion -- is insulting, and I don't want part of any conversation here if this is what I'm getting as a result. Now, you can argue about the semantics of what I said all you want, but I know the intention of my original post was conveyed quite clearly and so I'm choosing not to argue it any further.

If someone who's rather informed wants to have an actual conversation (instead of berating me for something I'm not doing) with me about this, feel free to DM me on Discord @Ayia#8852, I'd love to chat and learn more about this topic!

sorry this was so long im just kinda upset
 

Exeggutor

twist
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Actually, I do have something of actual worth to contribute for once!

I am very happy to see people living authentically whenever I see people speak about it online, but there's this assumed solidarity to the way that I am LGBT and the way others are LGBT that just doesn't exist. I liken it to the way people expect me to have had the same experiences by virtue of us both being black. It gets frustrating sometimes living in this country and trying to emphasize that no, I do not share your background or your experiences here; I grew up in my home country with different expectations, conversations and perceptions of race. The assumption feels half-insulting and half-erasing my experiences altogether.

There is an expected solidarity from what I'll describe as a very "online androgynous" type person - someone with dyed hair and piercings, probably an undercut, Bowie and TikTok-inspired in their fashion and in their perception of being "queer" - and myself because we are gender nonconforming. I do not get that. I do not feel a sense of solidarity in our expression. The floaty, alt androgynous twink type look is not something that fits on me - not to disrespect it, it's just not me - and it's not how I am perceived. I am usually perceived as either:

1. A chubby boy,
2. A man, or
3. A mannish lesbian.

I may be mannish, but I am none of those three options.

When I see people who fit my earlier descriptions talking about how easy it is to own your gender nonconformity, or how radical their choices are, or speaking on behalf of every gender-nonconforming person, I can't help but feel a little upset. We have barely anything in common and - and I say this with no hard feelings - you do not get perceived as a threat the way I do. You do not have to navigate life the way I do, you do not deal with the same communities I do, you do not deal with conflict the way I do. It's so tiring reading about people whose perceptions of their gender and sexuality are solely confined to what they see online instead of having to live as someone visibly different in real life - and I'm talking about adults, not children!

There's no real point to this post, it's just me getting something off my chest. I get perceived as not just different or some quirky aesthetic, but as a whole person, as someone different, and often as a threat. What I'd give to have my problems be confined to social media instead of being followed into bathrooms in real life.
 
1) I go into the distinction between sexual and romantic attraction in more detail in this post and in the replies to the original post. Essentially, the same logic that applies to the distinction between romantic and platonic attractions applies to the distinction between romantic and sexual attraction. Your individual experiences do not justify a new model of sexuality - the onus is on the people who support such a model to prove that the distinction exists.

2) No clue, I don't know you. Usually, however, this confusion stems from some combination of internalised homophobia and a theory of gender and sexuality that substitutes tumblr and twitter takes for actual analysis. You need to stop centring your own experiences and then claiming they say anything about sexuality or gender as they are actually constructed (because they don't - gender and sexuality are far too complicated for us to comprehend with reference to our own personal feelings about them) and interrogate your own feelings in a lot more depth. If you are interested in actually learning about theory, I usually recommend this as a start (although it is a difficult read, it is worth it and may clear up a lot of this confusion.)

#2 Sounds like a homophobic parent telling their child "you are confused, you are not gay" don't be a hypocrite dude
 

pulsar512b

ss ou fangirl
is a Pre-Contributor
What I'd say about the split attraction model is that it's a thing, and it's valid if you identify that way and I have no problems with that, but note that sometimes (not necessarily!) thinking that the attractions are different is due to (internalized) homophobia.

Also, relevant comic:
1607636486111.png
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#2 Sounds like a homophobic parent telling their child "you are confused, you are not gay" don't be a hypocrite dude
This is a bit ironic to me considering all the gay girls in strict christian households who are going to identify as asexual at one point or another even into adulthood...

I think yall are going too far in perma-banning crux in response to parts of posts that are basically a minutiae reminding us that is possible for a person to be asexual and still be straight and cis. No one is leveling attacks at asexual or aromantic people, nor dismissing their oppression, or claiming that they are analogous to terfs (re read the post, crux's brought up terfs in reference to an argument that inclusion is good for it's own sake because it adds people to the movement, if this was the case we should just add an S or an H to lgbtq so that we can include hets..., or even a C for conservatives). Crux did not even claim that heterosexual asexuals have 'straight privilege'. Their focus is clearly calling into question the split-attraction model, and identifying the ways in which promotion of the split attraction model may be out of alignment with the goals of an lgbtq+ movement. Their focus is not on excluding asexuals out of some personal bigotry against them.

I do not think crux's posts warrant being permanently banned. Even if you disagree with the content (for example, I do not agree that it is strictly the onus of a group/individual seeking inclusion to justify what they bring to a movement in order to be included and I do think that asexuals are oppressed in ways that are connected to lgbtq oppression, in fact, I think crux believes this as well, they just don't agree with the promotion of the split attraction model) or think the posts are obnoxious, I think there is a less final way to handle the situation than perma-banning crux who has been a great presence in this community and has helped and counseled many trans and non-binary users on this site. Making crux a pariah user is frankly unsettling because crux is one of the premier serious gay users on this site who isn't just interested in making everyone feel valid, regardless of how problematic they or their beliefs are, but is actually interested in protecting users from being harmed by nonsense ideas and notions that are becoming ever more widespread due to the shift to disorganized online affinity groups. I feel Crux is valuable to the community and maybe they should be less obnoxious, but accusing them of hate is a pretty extreme take on their recent posts I feel.
 

dhelmise

banend doosre
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Social Media Head
This is a bit ironic to me considering all the gay girls in strict christian households who are going to identify as asexual at one point or another even into adulthood...

I think yall are going too far in perma-banning crux in response to parts of posts that are basically a minutiae reminding us that is possible for a person to be asexual and still be straight and cis. No one is leveling attacks at asexual or aromantic people, nor dismissing their oppression, or claiming that they are analogous to terfs (re read the post, crux's brought up terfs in reference to an argument that inclusion is good for it's own sake because it adds people to the movement, if this was the case we should just add an S or an H to lgbtq so that we can include hets..., or even a C for conservatives). Crux did not even claim that heterosexual asexuals have 'straight privilege'. Their focus is clearly calling into question the split-attraction model, and identifying the ways in which promotion of the split attraction model may be out of alignment with the goals of an lgbtq+ movement. Their focus is not on excluding asexuals out of some personal bigotry against them.

I do not think crux's posts warrant being permanently banned. Even if you disagree with the content (for example, I do not agree that it is strictly the onus of a group/individual seeking inclusion to justify what they bring to a movement in order to be included and I do think that asexuals are oppressed in ways that are connected to lgbtq oppression, in fact, I think crux believes this as well, they just don't agree with the promotion of the split attraction model) or think the posts are obnoxious, I think there is a less final way to handle the situation than perma-banning crux who has been a great presence in this community and has helped and counseled many trans and non-binary users on this site. Making crux a pariah user is frankly unsettling because crux is one of the premier serious gay users on this site who isn't just interested in making everyone feel valid, regardless of how problematic they or their beliefs are, but is actually interested in protecting users from being harmed by nonsense ideas and notions that are becoming ever more widespread due to the shift to disorganized online affinity groups. I feel Crux is valuable to the community and maybe they should be less obnoxious, but accusing them of hate is a pretty extreme take on their recent posts I feel.
Crux was banned for more than just his bad posts here, which I felt should’ve been obvious but I guess not since he hid the reasons he was banned from PokePride, the 1v1 server, and the tours discord from real gays. Not really my place to expose him but he’s not innocent here.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
I was going to post something longer but I’m just going to post this instead.

7BDF4788-0EA0-425C-94D1-AB27C4126756.jpeg


Don’t even have to read the book just grapple with the title.

Crux is being banned for *squints* (correctly) pushing for better moderation in various discords and being retaliated against by moderators and now for his arguements against the split attraction model and the bad faith readings people have put on his posts.

Honestly: just own the fact that crux is being banned because he is challenging and difficult and not because of any real behavioral demerits. Just because he creates conflict doesn’t mean he’s causing real harm, and the vast majority of his arguments are in the interest of protecting people from harm.
 

dhelmise

banend doosre
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I was going to post something longer but I’m just going to post this instead.

View attachment 299004

Don’t even have to read the book just grapple with the title.

Crux is being banned for *squints* (correctly) pushing for better moderation in various discords and being retaliated against by moderators and now for his arguements against the split attraction model and the bad faith readings people have put on his posts.

Honestly: just own the fact that crux is being banned because he is challenging and difficult and not because of any real behavioral demerits. Just because he creates conflict doesn’t mean he’s causing real harm, and the vast majority of his arguments are in the interest of protecting people from harm.
No

e: to clarify that’s not why he was banned
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Given the number of times crux has been unfairly permabanned because of moderator beef with his insufferable personality (all cases obviously were then overturned), you’re going to have to actually be more specific then just vagueposting about more sinister unstated reasons.

Well I guess you don’t *have* to. I guess it’s within the realm of possibility that you just play with 0 transparency making it so that you never have to justify a moderation move. Honestly that’s the headier play.
 

dhelmise

banend doosre
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Given the number of times crux has been unfairly permabanned because of moderator beef with his insufferable personality (all cases obviously were then overturned), you’re going to have to actually be more specific then just vagueposting about more sinister unstated reasons.

Well I guess you don’t *have* to. I guess it’s within the realm of possibility that you just play with 0 transparency making it so that you never have to justify a moderation move. Honestly that’s the headier play.
I actually did go into specifics for what collectively got him permabanned (again) in another post but it got deleted because that is not relevant to this thread’s topic, and it’s unfair to air out someone else’s dirty laundry. Someone who was permabanned in 2014 for constantly starting drama only to return in 2020 to the same exact thing should not shock a soul.

He isn’t a victim of moderator beef. He’s just a bad user.
 

Sacri'

the end is here
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
No

e: to clarify that’s not why he was banned
you can keep on repeating this all you want, it is very unsettling that crux was permabanned almost immediately after a post calling out his "harmful beliefs" (or whatever you want to call them) garnered far more support than is usual for this thread. w/ that being said, I also happen to know half of the reasons he was banned for were greatly overstated (for instance i was there for almost all the "harassement towards stours mod" and even labelling it as such is ridiculous/ borderline homophobic if you want me to overstate harm myself :p). no matter how annoying crux's tone/antics may be, I know and have witnessed first hand (and personally benefited from) his drive to help other lgbt people better understand sexuality/gender. the past few exchanges regarding ace identities kept delivering some of the most blatantly bad faith and dishonest interpretations of his posts. i understand that some of these discussions may be difficult to handle but it doesn't mean they arent important and cant be beneficial for the community. as things stand, there's no way to interpret the events that took place yesterday as anything other than an attempt to shut someone up for challenging others views on important issues for the lgbt community.
 
Last edited:

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
I actually did go into specifics for what collectively got him permabanned (again) in another post but it got deleted because that is not relevant to this thread’s topic
Sorry, where is the thread where we can talk about this then? Or again, is the modus operandi to just not be transparent ever? Fucking weird how a guy is a problem user for *squints again checking notes* antagonizing the moderator team for stricter standards and better moderation.

Weird how there might be something worth talking about to a sudden unprompted banning of a user like that.

Maybe you right, maybe we shouldn't challenge the mod team and should just let pedophiles be a part of the admin team like we used to.
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
All the same accusations are coming back up again: that identifying as bi/homosexual but aromantic or asexual but bi/homoromantic is actually offensive and reinforces internalized homophobia, that aces and aros benefit from cishet privilege and therefore shouldn't be included within the LGBTQ+ community, that aces and aros are attempting to "sneak into" spaces that don't belong to them. These are the exact same arguments that I've been hearing for more than 20 years for why bisexuals don't belong in queer spaces.
I believe you are reading far more hostility into Crux's posts than is actually present. First of all, the argument that ace/aro persons shouldn't be included within the LGBT community only exists for those ace/aro persons who still identify as heteroromantic/heterosexual respectively. This does not mean that these people cannot struggle with their sexuality, and in fact I would not at all be surprised that they struggle with this more than the average person since feeling such a disconnect from sexuality in a society that is highly sexualized is of course likely to cause some mental anguish. However, struggling with one's own sexual identity or deviating from "the norm" does not necessarily grant one access to the LGBT community. This is obvious in other cases. We do not grant access to the LGBT community to, say, heterosexual persons who have faced sexual trauma in the past and as a result often feel a great deal of confusion and anguish over the sexual feelings they experience. Some heterosexual persons identify as furries and experience attraction to anthropomorphized animals, something that from what I've seen online seems to both greatly impact how they think about themselves and how others think of them. Of course this does not mean these people do not deserve sympathy or care or spaces in which they can talk to people with similar experiences and self-understandings, but I simply mean that experiencing difficulties with sexuality or having a sexual self-understanding that is divergent from the norm is not enough to "be LGBT". Why is this the case? Because we understand the LGBT community to be a political community, not an affinity group. The goal of LGBT politics is not to validate everyone's identity and provide a space in which similar-minded people can pal around, but to tear down oppressive laws, norms, and political institutions that keep LGBT people subjugated.

You mention that "this feels like gatekeeping" and you are correct, this is gatekeeping. But gatekeeping is done for a reason. In order for the LGBT community to maintain some coherence as a political movement - already difficult enough given that it has always been an awkward coalition - there have to be boundaries that determine who counts as part of the community and who doesn't. This is not to say that any group that is not already in has no chance of getting in, but any further addition to the community should at least be properly justified. The current impulse among liberals is to simply assume that by default, just about any sexually marginal (or "queer") group can be part of the community if they so desire. This eventually begins to dilute the original reason for the LGBT community's existence, that is to say, a shared social oppression on the basis of norms regarding gender and sexuality. If asexual people can convincingly make the case that by virtue of their asexuality (rather than because of other factors) they are excluded from sharing in cisheterosexual privilege and face oppression on the basis of their sexuality, it might be completely justified to include them. However, it appears to me that their inclusion has already begun to be normalized without there ever being serious discourse on the grounds for their inclusion, and anytime one begins to start a discussion it is met with accusations of hostility and "acephobia" - without establishing what acephobia entails, why it is capital O Oppression, why it is similar to homophobia or transphobia.

Now, I understand that it may be uncomfortable for people (especially those who identify as ace/aro) to hear someone like Crux say, in his classic antagonizing tone, that asexuals are not inherently LGBT, and it may as a result be difficult to assume good faith and to engage with his arguments. However, this is in fact an important discussion that is worth having and one that has not been properly "decided" yet in the way that, say, the discussion regarding trans people's inclusion has been. Nobody should feel obliged to participate if they don't want to, but please don't assume that any challenge to inclusion is by necessity bigotry or close-mindedness. This goes for the people who determined that Crux apparently deserved a ban for trying to initiate a discussion on the subject more than anyone else.

I could reply to more parts of Hogg's posts or other people's posts in this thread but for the moment I think I have said what I wanted to say. I would lastly just like to point out that everyone should read this post Crux made back in March if they are remotely interested in LGBT politics and some of the issues discussed on the last couple of pages because it is frankly pretty excellent and you should really read this if you want to engage in a good faith discussion on LGBT politics.
 

dhelmise

banend doosre
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you can keep on repeating this all you want, it is very unsettling that crux was permabanned almost immediately after a post calling out his "harmful beliefs" (or whatever you want to call them) garnered far more support than is usual for this thread.
I doubt you'll believe me, but this was just a matter of poor timing.
w/ that being said, I also happen to know half of the reasons he was banned for were greatly overstated (for instance i was there for almost all the "harassement towards stours mod" and even labelling it as such is ridiculous/ borderline homophobic if you want me to overstate harm myself :p).
If that's how you feel, then okay. I'm an admin in the PokePride Discord, as you're probably aware since you are also in the discord, and Rosa is as well--she is also a 1v1 mod, so she can speak on that regard. Also, to quote the post you're referring:
Kris said:
I can not speak as confidently on the why he was banned from the Tours discord, but I would imagine it has something to do with his constant harassment of the mod team there, i.e. consistently quizzing them on LGBTQ+ obscurities or texts that I (or any rational person) really don't expect to know or read off the tip of their tongue, and then moving on to harass them further by "jokingly" calling them slurs when their answer does not appeal to him and then asking even more questions. This is not the listed reason, though. He was banned for suggesting death on people and in general required a lot of moderation to the point where the mod team got sick of dealing with him.
It seems you misinterpreted my post? I gave the actual reason he was banned.
no matter how annoying crux's tone/antics may be, I know and have witnessed first hand (and personally benefited from) his drive to help other lgbt people better understand sexuality/gender.
Again, I never said this was untrue, and I don't think anyone was denying that he wants to help educate people and help them discover their identities.
the past few exchanges regarding ace identities kept delivering some of the most blatantly bad faith and dishonest interpretations of his posts.
I don't think responding defensively to being told your queer identity is invalid is "bad faith".
i understand that some of these discussions may be difficult to handle but it doesn't mean they arent important and cant be beneficial for the community.
I agree; there's a multitude of controversial topics for the community as a whole to discuss, and I think Crux had good intention in attempting to bring them up. However, It's extremely uncomfortable for a user to come out as asexual (the validity of which I frankly don't care to discuss) and then have Crux immediately follow up with telling them they are not valid.
as things stand, there's no way to interpret the events that took place yesterday as anything other than an attempt to shut someone up for challenging others views on important issues for the lgbt community.
Still wrong, but like I said in my (now deleted) post explaining in-depth why Crux was banned, it's clear where you stand on this and I doubt I will be able to convince you, so just have fun continuing to believe this.

Sorry, where is the thread where we can talk about this then? Or again, is the modus operandi to just not be transparent ever? Fucking weird how a guy is a problem user for *squints again checking notes* antagonizing the moderator team for stricter standards and better moderation.
PM Senior Staff or something? He is a problem user for other things; antagonizing and criticizing the mod team for being too lax was not a reason for why he was banned at all and if it were, I would've held more issue with his ban as well, seeing as I--in this very thread--called out the cong mods for neglecting this thread.
Weird how there might be something worth talking about to a sudden unprompted banning of a user like that.
I mean if you find his ban unprompted, then more power to you. Crux was permabanned for being nothing short of a pain in the ass for a long time, anyone without tunnel vision could've seen this coming from a mile away.
Maybe you right, maybe we shouldn't challenge the mod team and should just let pedophiles be a part of the admin team like we used to.
Very unsure where I said or implied this and I take issue with your implication that I'm okay with pedophilia. Grow up.
 

talah

from the river to the sea
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I doubt you'll believe me, but this was just a matter of poor timing.

If that's how you feel, then okay. I'm an admin in the PokePride Discord, as you're probably aware since you are also in the discord, and Rosa is as well--she is also a 1v1 mod, so she can speak on that regard. Also, to quote the post you're referring:

It seems you misinterpreted my post? I gave the actual reason he was banned.

Again, I never said this was untrue, and I don't think anyone was denying that he wants to help educate people and help them discover their identities.

I don't think responding defensively to being told your queer identity is invalid is "bad faith".

I agree; there's a multitude of controversial topics for the community as a whole to discuss, and I think Crux had good intention in attempting to bring them up. However, It's extremely uncomfortable for a user to come out as asexual (the validity of which I frankly don't care to discuss) and then have Crux immediately follow up with telling them they are not valid.

Still wrong, but like I said in my (now deleted) post explaining in-depth why Crux was banned, it's clear where you stand on this and I doubt I will be able to convince you, so just have fun continuing to believe this.


PM Senior Staff or something? He is a problem user for other things; antagonizing and criticizing the mod team for being too lax was not a reason for why he was banned at all and if it were, I would've held more issue with his ban as well, seeing as I--in this very thread--called out the cong mods for neglecting this thread.

I mean if you find his ban unprompted, then more power to you. Crux was permabanned for being nothing short of a pain in the ass for a long time, anyone without tunnel vision could've seen this coming from a mile away.

Very unsure where I said or implied this and I take issue with your implication that I'm okay with pedophilia. Grow up.
You did not give the actual reason he was banned; I would know as a SmogTours mod. The actual reason he was banned was for instigating 'drama'(bringing up controversial topics mainly), it had nothing to do with his joke quizzes or anything with the moderation team. Whether you want to impose judgment on him for the actual reason is up to you, but your post is blatantly wrong about that.
 

dhelmise

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You did not give the actual reason he was banned; I would know as a SmogTours mod. The actual reason he was banned was for instigating 'drama'(bringing up controversial topics mainly), it had nothing to do with his joke quizzes or anything with the moderation team. Whether you want to impose judgment on him for the actual reason is up to you, but your post is blatantly wrong about that.
I got my reason from a member of the TD team.
 

TheValkyries

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PMing senior stuff is not an open forum for discussion lmao. There's no accountability hiding away discussions like these in private messages.

And yeah. Crux is a pain in the ass. Is that actually a bannable offense? If it is, why the fuck haven't countless other problem causing users been banned earlier all over this forum? Why is Crux suddenly being banned under the offense of being a douchebag asshat.

And the implication isn't that you're okay with pedophilia, it's that the moderation team of this website has a real fucking bad reputation historically and it's not a good look for you to try and paint yourself with a holier than thou brush in that context. You haven't earned an ounce of trust.

I got my reason from a member of the TD team.
Is this a backpeddle, a shift of blame or what? What's going on here? What fucking kind of moderator response is this?
 

talah

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I got my reason from a member of the TD team.
Do you literally need me to post a detailed log exchange from the moderation channel I can currently access as for why he was banned? He was banned for instigating, it had nothing to do with the mod team, of which I was and currently am a part of, and participated in the discussion of his ban.
 
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update part 2?

now I've never been the type of person to enjoy PDA in general (at all, literally)
heck, when I was still actively dating only girls, I wouldn't even like holdings hands - but I feel like this had a lot to do with me being uncomfortable with my own sexuality and so it just turned into anxiety and feeling like everyone was looking at me

but as of recently my boyfriend and I celebrated our one year and although everything is closed because pandemic and such, I've felt so much more comfortable being affectionate in public which I feel like is such a big step for me? idk maybe I'm over-exaggerating but we love breaking down my anxiety around PDA/internalized homophobia!!
 
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Honest suggestion: make an LGBTQ+ Safe space thread (this one) and a seperate LGBT Politics thread.

People who want general advice and support or just to be told they look pretty can be, and those who want a full discussion about the political nuances can. I can't be the only one who wants to just come here and talk about people's experiences without getting a full thesis on why they're not important, actually.

On a similar note, I understand that our identity has become inherently political, but that doesn't mean that every moment of our being, every single discussion we have, every fibre in our bodies, needs to be politicised (is that a word?). I don't want to wake up, have breakfast, fight corrupt systems and combat homophobic regimes, go to bed. I want to be able to talk to people or rant about my experiences or listen to others rant about theirs without someone making a fucking shakesperian play or greek epic poem describing in precise detail why everything I do and say and think is wrong.

To do what I just said I actually wanted to do: does anyone have any advice on getting 'womens' clothes for someone who still looks (at least recognisably, I don't have a big beard or anything) male? What clothes do you think could work? ANy general tips on getting gender neutral fashion?
 

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