There are 2 modes on cart, Normal rules and No restrictions. Normal rules is level 50, no candies. No restriction is any level and any amount of candies. Theoretically there could also be a Normal rules AG on showdown which allowed multiple Mewtwo since thats how the Normal rules is on cart. It just also they'd be forced to be on level 50 and have no candies. But they decided to use the Normal rules format for where they'd put the smogon clauses, not create a Normal rules AG which would mimic the cart rules, and also used the No restrictions format to create AG and doubles AG.
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Metagame LGPE Anything Goes
- Thread starter Theorymon
- Start date
While that might be the case for on cart, I think everyone can agree that they're not tryna fight 5 Mewtwo every game. I've seen some cool stuff on both ladders, but with broken Mewtwo everywhere and with multiple copies allowed per team there's not a whole lot of substance here. I know the games were just released so bugfixes and whatnot come first, but I do feel that an AG style ruleset is going to be really unappealing to anyone trying to build a real team with or without Ubers like Mewtwo around.
Anyways, to keep this on topic, here's a team I built around the other broken Psychic type for anyone who wants to try out the meta
Psychic types pretty much define the metagame atm, and MegaZam is almost as bad as Mewtwo imo. With the extra 20 defense from mega-evolving, a lot of weaker mons struggle to break the sub in a single hit allowing Zam to win the 1v1 in a lot of cases with its powerful STAB Psychic + setup. Mew works as an infuriating stallbreaker that can also whittle common Psychic resists with EQ + wisp. Zapdos takes advantage of opposing Eevee w/ Sub and spreads para with respectably strong Thunders. Drill Peck is better on the Nexus server where Venu is more common, but is still great for Venomoth regardless. Starmie spreads Toxics and outspeeds Mew while also generating slow momentum. Rhydon is for rocks and a powerful STAB EdgeSlide, while Eevee is pretty much a standard cleric/status spreader. Realistically there's no reason for Starmie to not be Mewtwo, but I made this on the other server so w/e.
My general impressions are that this is definitely a slower-paced, more methodical metagame when compared to other recent gens. Winning a match is more about winning enough smaller victories turn for turn that eventually allow you to break through your opponents team, and games feel less reliant on matchup. Part of this is probably because of mons like Mew, MZam, and Mewtwo existing simultaneously puts such a choke on the game that teams are a bit restricted atm, but from what I've played just about any mon can do work in any matchup thanks to the boosted stats in a candy meta.
Eevee is just as much of a game-changer as the Psychic types too. It's ability to spread status while also functioning as a cleric that doesn't care about Taunt makes it an auto-include on 99 percent of teams. It's not quite the same level of broken as other stuff IMO though since you're major setup-bait for anything with Sub or something like Dodrio that has access to SD + Facade. (Mega)Venusaur also makes for a pretty good check, albeit Mewtwo doesn't make that all too appealing atm. Eevee is also somehow still unable to take a hit to save its life despite +200 Hp/Def so there's that.
Psychics are as OP as you'd expect, with Mew/Two being able to beat any supposed check with some combo of Taunt/Recover/Wisp/Earthquake/Toxic/Psychic or some minor team support in MegaZams case. Beyond that, Melmetal is a really cool mon that can beat most things easily with T-Wave + Double Iron Bash. The low PP on bash sucks but this guy is a top threat for sure, a healthy Melmetal is one of the few things that can actually stand up to crazy stuff like Mewtwo or Venomoth.
One mon that's lowkey pretty crazy besides the obvious though is Mega-Gengar
First game it manages to force 3 KOs by turn 14, and the second game it just cleans despite me not getting it in as early as I could have. Granted, this is in no Mewtwo meta, but with MGengar's coverage and stats it can really get to a lot of teams lacking Alolan-Muk. It's unfortunate that it speedties Mewtwo or it would be much better I think.
Anyways, to keep this on topic, here's a team I built around the other broken Psychic type for anyone who wants to try out the meta
Eevee-Starter
Ability: Run Away
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sizzly Slide
- Buzzy Buzz
- Sappy Seed
- Sparkly Swirl
Mew
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Roost
- Earthquake
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Mild Nature
- Drill Peck
- Thunder
- Substitute
- Roost
Rhydon
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
Starmie
Ability: Illuminate
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Recover
- Scald
- Teleport
Ability: Run Away
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sizzly Slide
- Buzzy Buzz
- Sappy Seed
- Sparkly Swirl
Mew
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Roost
- Earthquake
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Mild Nature
- Drill Peck
- Thunder
- Substitute
- Roost
Rhydon
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
Starmie
Ability: Illuminate
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Recover
- Scald
- Teleport
Psychic types pretty much define the metagame atm, and MegaZam is almost as bad as Mewtwo imo. With the extra 20 defense from mega-evolving, a lot of weaker mons struggle to break the sub in a single hit allowing Zam to win the 1v1 in a lot of cases with its powerful STAB Psychic + setup. Mew works as an infuriating stallbreaker that can also whittle common Psychic resists with EQ + wisp. Zapdos takes advantage of opposing Eevee w/ Sub and spreads para with respectably strong Thunders. Drill Peck is better on the Nexus server where Venu is more common, but is still great for Venomoth regardless. Starmie spreads Toxics and outspeeds Mew while also generating slow momentum. Rhydon is for rocks and a powerful STAB EdgeSlide, while Eevee is pretty much a standard cleric/status spreader. Realistically there's no reason for Starmie to not be Mewtwo, but I made this on the other server so w/e.
My general impressions are that this is definitely a slower-paced, more methodical metagame when compared to other recent gens. Winning a match is more about winning enough smaller victories turn for turn that eventually allow you to break through your opponents team, and games feel less reliant on matchup. Part of this is probably because of mons like Mew, MZam, and Mewtwo existing simultaneously puts such a choke on the game that teams are a bit restricted atm, but from what I've played just about any mon can do work in any matchup thanks to the boosted stats in a candy meta.
Eevee is just as much of a game-changer as the Psychic types too. It's ability to spread status while also functioning as a cleric that doesn't care about Taunt makes it an auto-include on 99 percent of teams. It's not quite the same level of broken as other stuff IMO though since you're major setup-bait for anything with Sub or something like Dodrio that has access to SD + Facade. (Mega)Venusaur also makes for a pretty good check, albeit Mewtwo doesn't make that all too appealing atm. Eevee is also somehow still unable to take a hit to save its life despite +200 Hp/Def so there's that.
Psychics are as OP as you'd expect, with Mew/Two being able to beat any supposed check with some combo of Taunt/Recover/Wisp/Earthquake/Toxic/Psychic or some minor team support in MegaZams case. Beyond that, Melmetal is a really cool mon that can beat most things easily with T-Wave + Double Iron Bash. The low PP on bash sucks but this guy is a top threat for sure, a healthy Melmetal is one of the few things that can actually stand up to crazy stuff like Mewtwo or Venomoth.
One mon that's lowkey pretty crazy besides the obvious though is Mega-Gengar
First game it manages to force 3 KOs by turn 14, and the second game it just cleans despite me not getting it in as early as I could have. Granted, this is in no Mewtwo meta, but with MGengar's coverage and stats it can really get to a lot of teams lacking Alolan-Muk. It's unfortunate that it speedties Mewtwo or it would be much better I think.
Excellent team Deltre ! I've been taking a real shining to Let's Go OU lately. If I score high enough on the ladder, I'll post my team as a potential sample team =-)! I agree that Psychic types are very powerful in this meta. Winning teams usually have some strong psychic types, some strong counters to psychic types, and/or both. My current impression is that Chansey certainly helps with the psy matchups!
Chansey does not win against most of the fast, sweeping psyhcics.
- (Mega) Zam runs Taunt to prevent any meaningful moves to come from Chansey. Sub, as the team mentioned had, prevents the same thing.
- Stallbreaker Mew(two) runs Taunt to prevent Chansey from doing anyhting, and Bulk Up breaks through Chansey, so Chansey only wins against NP/CM sets not running taunt.
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Hey guys so I noticed that there's only two options right now for singles LGPE ladders. Candyless lv 50 with sensible clauses and no restrictions which is pretty much AG for LGPE. I feel that it would be sensible to have a ladder that allows a Candy lv 100 singles with sensible clauses. Having to fight a team of 6 Mewtwos or 6 Venomoths is not what I consider a sensible competitive ladder. I read the thread and I'm surely not the only one who would like to have said ladder.
Posting my Let's Go OU team for shits and giggles. Loove the double fighting thing I have going on hoo-hah! https://pokepast.es/996db0d0bd8e9001
Sorry, I think that was me you faced with those 6 Venomoths, I just wanted to see how dumb Quiver Dance + Sleep Powder would be without Sleep Clause to block it. Really dumb, though Taunt Aerodactyls/Mewtwos are a pretty hard stop to them. I think switching out one of them for a Taunt+SR Mega Aero lead works better than full Venomoth spam. But yes, really hoping the Candy LGPE ladder brings clauses back before long.
I've been getting into Let's Go OU lately. It really feels like all the players in it are equally strong, regardless of their rank. Just have some good psy pokes, and some good UN-psy pokes (Alola Muk, Melmetal) and you're good to go! Here's my current team.
https://pokepast.es/8b1644bee6066241
https://pokepast.es/8b1644bee6066241
It wasnt really hard to deal with just really annoying and too reliant on RNG to be competitive as you know cause I was able to beat it. But it was not something I was like damn I did good more like I sure was lucky. Again a more competitive Candy Metagame would be awesome.
Do you think you'd be able to repost a link to the discord? I tried joining and it says the link is expired.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
I have a question on the Mega Drain not being included in the Recovery list. Why? It's the TM from Erika, so you are guaranteed to have access to it.
Doesn't Exeggutor/Venusaur learn it? Exeggutor can tank resisted Ground/Grass/Psychic/Water/Fighting moves, and heal up again those weak to it. Sleep Powder helps it stall, paired well with Leech Seed, to recover gradually. M-Venusaur can also have enough bulk to make use of it, and SpA on par with Exeggutor. I only bring it up b/c the list specifically labels the move as excluded.
Here's a super underrated threat for anyone who wants to add some more offense to their game
Got caught off guard by this on the ladder and after using it a bit I gotta say that this thing goes hard. If you can get the smash off, STAB into boom KOs a huge amount of the tier. Hydro by itself is a huge threat too, as with few great Water/Ice resists in the tier and Cloyster's sky high defenses you'll be sure to at least get a few good hits in before Self-Destructing. With a good matchup against some common rockers like Aero/Don and the increased bulk letting it shrug off weaker neutral hits and smash up, Cloyster is definitely a monster in its own right. I've had the most success using it to break early on for other teammates, but it has cleaning potential as well with a lategame smash on a weakened team. In a proper OU setting I feel like Cloyster could be an amazing pick for offense teams, but it's still damn good as long as you're prepared for the inevitable Multi-Mewtwo match-up.
I also wanted to echo the point that while a lack of ruleset doesn't automatically lose you the match, it is still incredibly un-fun to play. Besides the obvious multi-M2 thing, I've had perfectly normal matches turn into a FORCED PP stall because someone wanted to use Minimize. It's totally unreasonable to expect every member of a team to carry Taunt just in the off chance someone wants to try this, not to mention that evasion is actually worse than ever to face in LGPE because of increased bulk. If they get the boost you better start praying you take 'em out somehow because if you don't that Rest is coming in hot, and if that happens then I hope you know how to PP stall cuz it's gonna be a long match.
All in all I think this meta has potential to be a lot more fast paced and engaging than people who don't play it realize, but I don't think people have quite figured out how to "go in" yet with all the new mechanics. Seems like there's something new every day though, and it's cool to see the majority of people using real teams on the ladder to try and make a game out of this despite the lack of ruleset. Honestly, it feels a lot like an older gen format without all the hax and jank, which is certainly a unique concept in and of itself. If you banned M2 and took a look at Mew down the road, I think you'd have a pretty stable meta where the majority of mons are viable in some way with a high skill ceiling for the individual player. It would be such a huge waste IMO to relegate that to a side-server where it can't get any exposure or growth (no disrespect to the people at Nexus). I don't think the game being "too slow" is really an excuse either when I see many experienced players on both servers frequently establish a huge lead if not outright win within the first 30-40 turns regularly.
Cloyster
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Shell Smash
- Self-Destruct
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 200 Def / 200 SpA / 200 SpD / 200 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Shell Smash
- Self-Destruct
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
Got caught off guard by this on the ladder and after using it a bit I gotta say that this thing goes hard. If you can get the smash off, STAB into boom KOs a huge amount of the tier. Hydro by itself is a huge threat too, as with few great Water/Ice resists in the tier and Cloyster's sky high defenses you'll be sure to at least get a few good hits in before Self-Destructing. With a good matchup against some common rockers like Aero/Don and the increased bulk letting it shrug off weaker neutral hits and smash up, Cloyster is definitely a monster in its own right. I've had the most success using it to break early on for other teammates, but it has cleaning potential as well with a lategame smash on a weakened team. In a proper OU setting I feel like Cloyster could be an amazing pick for offense teams, but it's still damn good as long as you're prepared for the inevitable Multi-Mewtwo match-up.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgosinglesnorestrictions-824042377in th
I wasn't +Atk on Cloyster which cost me the Eevee on Turn 7, but bottom line don't let Cloyster set up
I wasn't +Atk on Cloyster which cost me the Eevee on Turn 7, but bottom line don't let Cloyster set up
I also wanted to echo the point that while a lack of ruleset doesn't automatically lose you the match, it is still incredibly un-fun to play. Besides the obvious multi-M2 thing, I've had perfectly normal matches turn into a FORCED PP stall because someone wanted to use Minimize. It's totally unreasonable to expect every member of a team to carry Taunt just in the off chance someone wants to try this, not to mention that evasion is actually worse than ever to face in LGPE because of increased bulk. If they get the boost you better start praying you take 'em out somehow because if you don't that Rest is coming in hot, and if that happens then I hope you know how to PP stall cuz it's gonna be a long match.
All in all I think this meta has potential to be a lot more fast paced and engaging than people who don't play it realize, but I don't think people have quite figured out how to "go in" yet with all the new mechanics. Seems like there's something new every day though, and it's cool to see the majority of people using real teams on the ladder to try and make a game out of this despite the lack of ruleset. Honestly, it feels a lot like an older gen format without all the hax and jank, which is certainly a unique concept in and of itself. If you banned M2 and took a look at Mew down the road, I think you'd have a pretty stable meta where the majority of mons are viable in some way with a high skill ceiling for the individual player. It would be such a huge waste IMO to relegate that to a side-server where it can't get any exposure or growth (no disrespect to the people at Nexus). I don't think the game being "too slow" is really an excuse either when I see many experienced players on both servers frequently establish a huge lead if not outright win within the first 30-40 turns regularly.
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Echoing this post, I'm absolutely fine with keeping the meta on Nexus indefinitely (we have loads of tiers for every other gen, not gonna treat this different) but I have no doubts that it and the Unrestricted ladder on main will die out fairly soon if no action is taken. To leave a completely unique and interesting meta to die and devolve into complete RNG because bad players might spend 100 turns playing a match is ridiculous. imo the only way for Unrestricted to preserve any significant sort of competitive future is for Smogon to provide an actual tier, or for Nexus' format to be promoted in some form (which isn't an idea I expect Smogon staff to be keen on). Showdown is the only place that can realistically provide a large playerbase for a competitive Candy meta, so it's entirely up to you.
Nidoqueen is better since it has higher bulk for Stealth Rocks and access to Super Fang.
That’s good since I spent today raising a Nidorina to 47 for Super Fang and then Moon Stone’d it.
I massively updated the OP to be much more relevant to our Mewtwo overlords! I've also included an early viability list for everyone to chew on too! Note that I haven't gotten around to pastebining the sets yet like the OU thread. I'll have sets up for the S and A ranks tomorrow, and try to get the B and C ranks up by Monday or Tuesday. Sorry for the wait!
I'm ever so curious, with this new meta still being young and all, why it seems its either max candy meta or no candy meta. Candies give a +1 stat per stat, so wouldn't it be easy to make a cap/limit to emulate the EVs we've become accustomed to? Is there a Balanced Candy meta in the works anywhere?
These formats are simply working with the challenge formats provided ingame, hence their polarizing rulesets. A capped Candy meta would be possible, but not possible to enforce on wifi; someone could very easily bring one extra candy in Speed secretly to somehow "always win speed ties". It would likely be a very niche OM on Smogon, if that.
By the way is there a damage calculator for this format?
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
Can we link this in the OMOTM thread and in the the OP?
I've been refreshing this page daily hoping the first couple posts will be updated. I'd love to contribute myself but I haven't played a Pokemon game since Gen 2. I appreciate all the shared info!
Bold. Makes its defense, its lowest stat that it uses, better at the cost of an attack stat that isn't used.