Base 110 SAtk +1 boost Petal Dance w/ STAB against Gengar: 63.2% - 74.7%
Not overly impressive, but not too bad either.
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Lilligant
- Thread starter Acosta
- Start date
Not overly impressive, but not too bad either.
I would think HP Rock would be the best coverage alongside Petal Dance or whatever Grass move is chosen. It allows it to hit Zapdos, Gyarados, all Dragon/Flying, other Flying, Bug, and pure Fire-types super-effectively and allows you to still hit Heatran, Skarmory, Scizor, Infernape, Emboar, and Blaziken for regular damage. It's not the best coverage in the world, but it's gotta be the best all-around coverage alongside Grass.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
An unfortunate pokemon. The stats are there but the movepool truly isn't. I was ready to use this when I saw it learned sleep powder and butterfly dance, and that it had chlorophyll. But what are you going to be attacking with? Dream Eater? Natural Gift? Hidden Power? The base 110 sp. atk stat is wasted.
I plan to use Doreida on my random wi-fi battle team with Hypnosis using Droughttales and Yache Chomp.
Hidden Power isn't that bad. Plenty of Pokes rely on it for coverage.
Hidden Power is 70 power, which isn't that bad at all since your using it for coverage, and if it's HP Fire it could get boosted even further. That's like saying Heatran is a bad attacker because it can't beat Swampert without HP Grass. Besides, after a couple Butterfly Dances, SolarBeam/Grass Knot/etc. is gonna dent anything.
Doreida seems to also be able to switch in on Burunkeru pretty easily, fearing virtually nothing but status from it. That's free set up for Butterfly Dance or a good shot at Sleep Powder baiting. However, it's HP/Sp. Def is nothing stellar until after a Butterfly Dance, so it can't take too many switch ins, even if Burunkeru's attacks are rather weak.
However Doreida's eternal problem will probably be coverage. There's pretty much nothing that pairs perfectly with Grass on attacks, and you're almost always walled by something. However, I feel keeping that Hidden Power a secret will be vital to Doreida's ability to play out.
In terms of Grass STAB, you've got Petal Dance (which pairs well with Own Tempo, but pairs poorly with the lack of switching), Solarbeam (Which is only good on Sunny Day teams, and even then it's susceptible to weather swapping), Energy Ball (a solid attack choice, but in terms of raw power it might be a bit lacking), and Giga Drain (Only slightly weaker than Energy Ball and offers some healing). Doreida also has access to Leaf Storm, but as far as Leaf Storm goes, you're better off using Contrarion Jaroda, though Doreida does have more firepower with it from the get go, Jaroda's faster, bulkier and gets boosts from it.
Still, Butterfly Dance and Sleep Powder are a pretty nice combo. Boosted Petal Dances are easy to switch in on, but if you get more than one Butterfly Dance off, you're dealing a lot of damage regardless.
Also a small nit pick, the OP says Doreida has 110 SpA and 90 SpA instead of 110 Sp. Attack and 90 Speed.
However Doreida's eternal problem will probably be coverage. There's pretty much nothing that pairs perfectly with Grass on attacks, and you're almost always walled by something. However, I feel keeping that Hidden Power a secret will be vital to Doreida's ability to play out.
In terms of Grass STAB, you've got Petal Dance (which pairs well with Own Tempo, but pairs poorly with the lack of switching), Solarbeam (Which is only good on Sunny Day teams, and even then it's susceptible to weather swapping), Energy Ball (a solid attack choice, but in terms of raw power it might be a bit lacking), and Giga Drain (Only slightly weaker than Energy Ball and offers some healing). Doreida also has access to Leaf Storm, but as far as Leaf Storm goes, you're better off using Contrarion Jaroda, though Doreida does have more firepower with it from the get go, Jaroda's faster, bulkier and gets boosts from it.
Still, Butterfly Dance and Sleep Powder are a pretty nice combo. Boosted Petal Dances are easy to switch in on, but if you get more than one Butterfly Dance off, you're dealing a lot of damage regardless.
Also a small nit pick, the OP says Doreida has 110 SpA and 90 SpA instead of 110 Sp. Attack and 90 Speed.
Got a couple sets for this beauty.
First off, an offensive set:
Dancing Beauty
Doredia @Life Orb
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Spatk, 4 Spdef
Nature: Timid/Modest
Ability: Own Tempo (you'll see why below)
~/Giga Drain / Petal Dance
~/Butterfly Dance
~/Teeter Dance / Hidden Power of your choice
~/Sleep Powder
Switch this into soemthing in can force out--The Ground/Water types and Gliscor are a good choice--and Sleep Powder on the switch. Butterfly Dance on the further switch, then proceed to rape everything. Petal Dance is an option because Own Tempo prevents its confusion (someone correct me if I'm wrong), while Giga Drain compliments the +spdef boost. Teeter Dance can be used if someone switches in something you can't touch, like, say, Shanderaa, and that you need to safely switch something into. OR, Hidden Power for coverage.
Clorophyll
Doredia @Light Clay / Big Root / Shed Shell
EVs: 252 Speed, 212 HP, 44 Spatk
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Timid
~/Giga Drain
~/Light Screen / Sleep Powder / Stun Spore
~/Reflect / Sleep Powder / Stun Spore
~/Healing Wish
Doredia doesn't look like a good Chlorophyll sweeper, but she's definitely an awesome supporter. Jumpluff may be faster, but it's also one hell of a lot more fragile. Doredia isn't too bulky either, but she gets the job done.
Switch her in safely somehow. Paralyze/Sleep the opponent or set up some Screens under the sun with your now more than respectable speed, then pseudo-pass it. Healing Wish is also one of the key moves that separates her from the 'Pluffer: She can fully restore an ally AND have them rock the enemy, since they'll probably switch out of Paralysis/Sleepdom, OR make them even bulkier with the Screen.
One last one:
Shanderaa Trap
Doredia @Shed Shell / Lum Berry
EVs: 252 Speed, 176 Spatk, 176 HP
Nature: Timid
Ability: Either
~/Butterfly Dance
~/Healing Wish if not shed shell / Worry Seed if shed shell
~/Giga Drain
~/HP Dark/Ghost
Why is this a Shanderaa trap? Pair it with the following:
Dugtrio @Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Spdef
Nature: Adamant
Ability: SAND TRAP.
~/Earthquake
~/Sucker Punch
~/Stone Edge
~/Level Field (60 power 100% acc 100% chance of lowering enemy speed by 1 level)
NOTE: If Overheat missing still lowers Spatk, Dig is an option over Earthquake.
Yep. Sand Trap prevents Shanderaa from escaping, giving it a taste of its own medecine. Unless it has HP Ice, Water or Grass, it's probably not gonna hit you hard, especially if it's Choiced and can't switch from the Fire move.
First off, an offensive set:
Dancing Beauty
Doredia @Life Orb
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Spatk, 4 Spdef
Nature: Timid/Modest
Ability: Own Tempo (you'll see why below)
~/Giga Drain / Petal Dance
~/Butterfly Dance
~/Teeter Dance / Hidden Power of your choice
~/Sleep Powder
Switch this into soemthing in can force out--The Ground/Water types and Gliscor are a good choice--and Sleep Powder on the switch. Butterfly Dance on the further switch, then proceed to rape everything. Petal Dance is an option because Own Tempo prevents its confusion (someone correct me if I'm wrong), while Giga Drain compliments the +spdef boost. Teeter Dance can be used if someone switches in something you can't touch, like, say, Shanderaa, and that you need to safely switch something into. OR, Hidden Power for coverage.
Clorophyll
Doredia @Light Clay / Big Root / Shed Shell
EVs: 252 Speed, 212 HP, 44 Spatk
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Timid
~/Giga Drain
~/Light Screen / Sleep Powder / Stun Spore
~/Reflect / Sleep Powder / Stun Spore
~/Healing Wish
Doredia doesn't look like a good Chlorophyll sweeper, but she's definitely an awesome supporter. Jumpluff may be faster, but it's also one hell of a lot more fragile. Doredia isn't too bulky either, but she gets the job done.
Switch her in safely somehow. Paralyze/Sleep the opponent or set up some Screens under the sun with your now more than respectable speed, then pseudo-pass it. Healing Wish is also one of the key moves that separates her from the 'Pluffer: She can fully restore an ally AND have them rock the enemy, since they'll probably switch out of Paralysis/Sleepdom, OR make them even bulkier with the Screen.
One last one:
Shanderaa Trap
Doredia @Shed Shell / Lum Berry
EVs: 252 Speed, 176 Spatk, 176 HP
Nature: Timid
Ability: Either
~/Butterfly Dance
~/Healing Wish if not shed shell / Worry Seed if shed shell
~/Giga Drain
~/HP Dark/Ghost
Why is this a Shanderaa trap? Pair it with the following:
Dugtrio @Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Spdef
Nature: Adamant
Ability: SAND TRAP.
~/Earthquake
~/Sucker Punch
~/Stone Edge
~/Level Field (60 power 100% acc 100% chance of lowering enemy speed by 1 level)
NOTE: If Overheat missing still lowers Spatk, Dig is an option over Earthquake.
Yep. Sand Trap prevents Shanderaa from escaping, giving it a taste of its own medecine. Unless it has HP Ice, Water or Grass, it's probably not gonna hit you hard, especially if it's Choiced and can't switch from the Fire move.
I don't see 35/70 Dugtrio special defense with no investment survive a scarfed 145 maxed special attack STAB Shadow Ball/Overheat/Flamethrower.
You're actually supposed to use Healing Wish to go into Dugtrio, which makes it all the more worth it if Dugtrio was hurt.
That's a waste of two teamslots. If you really wanted to trap Shanderaa, just use a Tyranitar (who can come in on almost anything Shanderaa uses). Plus Healing Wish doesn't save Dugtrio from the hit (Healing Wish happens immediately, not at the end of the turn), so you just sacrificed two pokes.
I really like Doredia's dream world artwork! it's cute!
Anyway I really think Doredia will make a great partner for specs Typhlosion in a triple battle. Have Ninetales with an iron ball just for sun. Uses specs Eruption from typhlo in the middle. and have Doredia use Make Friends to give typhlo cholrophyll.
Next turn have Ninetales switch out to a wide guard or follow me user so priority won't get Typhlo. and have Doredia use teeter dance, sleep powder, or just use solarbeam or whatever move of your choice!
Anyway I really think Doredia will make a great partner for specs Typhlosion in a triple battle. Have Ninetales with an iron ball just for sun. Uses specs Eruption from typhlo in the middle. and have Doredia use Make Friends to give typhlo cholrophyll.
Next turn have Ninetales switch out to a wide guard or follow me user so priority won't get Typhlo. and have Doredia use teeter dance, sleep powder, or just use solarbeam or whatever move of your choice!
Loving how it looked in terms of passing egg moves... as its gender options are one: FEMALE only
Wouldn't it act like a double Shadow Tag? I mean, couldn't the Shanderaa still switch out? Didn't they change it so that two Wobbu's don't stall each other out?
I think if you're relying on Butterfly Dance you won't need to run Timid as often unless you really need to beat out scarfers. What are the calcs of HP fire anyway? I would think +1 off a respectable base 110 sp. attack with a 4x weakness could OHKO Nattorei.
Growing Dryad
Doredia @ Life Orb / Leftovers
EVs: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Timid
Giga Drain / Petal Dance
Growth
Sleep Powder
Hidden Power Fire
Growth and its new +2/+2 mechanic under Sunny Day hasn't been mentioned in here (at least not that I saw), so here we go. I'd prefer to use Butterfly Dance since it serves her well even outside of sun and I'd rather have that reliability along with the Special Defense and extra Speed boosts even at the expense of raising her raw power more slowly, but some people would rather have the +2 immediately.
Just an interesting, quirky fact: if Venusaur were ever to use this exact moveset with Chlorophyll, it would be outclassed offensively because Doredia is faster and has higher Special Attack. Whether that's worth giving up the extra bulk, resistance to Fighting, and neutrality to Bug depends on her supporting team. For what it's worth, Doredia does get a resistance to Ground and in non-sun conditions she outspeeds stuff like Gyarados, Heracross, Gallade, Dragonite, Shanderaa, and offensive Suicune that get their hits in on Venusaur. Add Doryuuzu and Kingdra to that list if the weather condition is normal or not in their favor.
It's a real shame that Doredia's only other option on the special attack front is Hyper Beam, because with the power of Growth she might have been able to get away with just Giga Draining health back instead of putting things to sleep. A move like Earth Power would have been a wonderful boon and still very appropriate and logical for her movepool, and even something like Psychic, Psycho Shock, or Tri Attack of all things (the only other special attacks I could imagine her using) would have helped.
Oh well. Maybe in the future the dryad will have justice in her movepool.
If you're feeling saucy, dangerous, and maybe even gimmicky, you could switch to Hasty or Naive, hold an Apicot Berry, and drop Sleep Powder or HP Fire for Natural Gift. It becomes an 80 power Ground attack coming off 312 Attack after the Growth boost, so at very least the inevitable Heatran probably won't see that one coming. :P It does 90.4% to 106.5% on a Choice Scarf version, enough to KO after Spikes or Stealth Rock. Opposing Ninetales takes 66.9-79.4%. 72 Attack EVs gets an OHKO on a full-health 0 HP/0 Defense Heatran or 74.6-88.5% on 0 HP/0 Defense Ninetales.
Doredia @ Life Orb / Leftovers
EVs: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Timid
Giga Drain / Petal Dance
Growth
Sleep Powder
Hidden Power Fire
Growth and its new +2/+2 mechanic under Sunny Day hasn't been mentioned in here (at least not that I saw), so here we go. I'd prefer to use Butterfly Dance since it serves her well even outside of sun and I'd rather have that reliability along with the Special Defense and extra Speed boosts even at the expense of raising her raw power more slowly, but some people would rather have the +2 immediately.
Just an interesting, quirky fact: if Venusaur were ever to use this exact moveset with Chlorophyll, it would be outclassed offensively because Doredia is faster and has higher Special Attack. Whether that's worth giving up the extra bulk, resistance to Fighting, and neutrality to Bug depends on her supporting team. For what it's worth, Doredia does get a resistance to Ground and in non-sun conditions she outspeeds stuff like Gyarados, Heracross, Gallade, Dragonite, Shanderaa, and offensive Suicune that get their hits in on Venusaur. Add Doryuuzu and Kingdra to that list if the weather condition is normal or not in their favor.
It's a real shame that Doredia's only other option on the special attack front is Hyper Beam, because with the power of Growth she might have been able to get away with just Giga Draining health back instead of putting things to sleep. A move like Earth Power would have been a wonderful boon and still very appropriate and logical for her movepool, and even something like Psychic, Psycho Shock, or Tri Attack of all things (the only other special attacks I could imagine her using) would have helped.
Oh well. Maybe in the future the dryad will have justice in her movepool.
If you're feeling saucy, dangerous, and maybe even gimmicky, you could switch to Hasty or Naive, hold an Apicot Berry, and drop Sleep Powder or HP Fire for Natural Gift. It becomes an 80 power Ground attack coming off 312 Attack after the Growth boost, so at very least the inevitable Heatran probably won't see that one coming. :P It does 90.4% to 106.5% on a Choice Scarf version, enough to KO after Spikes or Stealth Rock. Opposing Ninetales takes 66.9-79.4%. 72 Attack EVs gets an OHKO on a full-health 0 HP/0 Defense Heatran or 74.6-88.5% on 0 HP/0 Defense Ninetales.
Just noting that she doesn't learn Reflect. :P
A pity Doreida doesn't learn Earth Power, or... any other special attack that has a different type really... but with Butterfly Dance and Sleep Powder, Doreida probably doesn't have much room for coverage anyway.
If Doreida wants usage in OU, what can in switch in on anyway? I think it can switch in on Burunkeru and set up Butterfly Dances due to it having somewhat lackluster special attack. Even ice beam won't hurt much if you get in the sp. def boost (but if you switched into ice beam you'll probably lose). It might also be able to switch in on some other water types, like Vaporeon, but in most cases it has to watch out for ice type attacks from water types.
Another problem Doreida will face, probably regardless of what tier it ends up being in, is the users of Herbivore. Baffuron is probably too bulky to OHKO, even with HP Fighting, you'll probably need 2 Butterfly Dances to do so. If you didn't Butterfly Dance up, then Mebukijika also eats up your grass STABs, though if you already have the dance bonus, you might have a chance to OHKO with HP Fire/Fighting, especially after SR. These guys also don't mind if you try and Sleep Powder them either.
Ulgamoth will probably be too much for Doreida as well without HP Rock or something, without significant boosts from Butterfly Dance, as well as Stealth Rock damage, Doreida will probably find itself having trouble with the sun bug. There's also just a very high number of priority revenge killers (like Roopushin and Scizor) that don't care about your dancing, thus Doreida needs to be carefully played.
Though the idea of putting Doreida against something it can actually force out, then Butterfly Dancing, then Sleep Powdering the "counter" so you can possibly get more BDs is awesome, especially since Doreida is pretty fast after one Butterfly Dance.
If Doreida wants usage in OU, what can in switch in on anyway? I think it can switch in on Burunkeru and set up Butterfly Dances due to it having somewhat lackluster special attack. Even ice beam won't hurt much if you get in the sp. def boost (but if you switched into ice beam you'll probably lose). It might also be able to switch in on some other water types, like Vaporeon, but in most cases it has to watch out for ice type attacks from water types.
Another problem Doreida will face, probably regardless of what tier it ends up being in, is the users of Herbivore. Baffuron is probably too bulky to OHKO, even with HP Fighting, you'll probably need 2 Butterfly Dances to do so. If you didn't Butterfly Dance up, then Mebukijika also eats up your grass STABs, though if you already have the dance bonus, you might have a chance to OHKO with HP Fire/Fighting, especially after SR. These guys also don't mind if you try and Sleep Powder them either.
Ulgamoth will probably be too much for Doreida as well without HP Rock or something, without significant boosts from Butterfly Dance, as well as Stealth Rock damage, Doreida will probably find itself having trouble with the sun bug. There's also just a very high number of priority revenge killers (like Roopushin and Scizor) that don't care about your dancing, thus Doreida needs to be carefully played.
Though the idea of putting Doreida against something it can actually force out, then Butterfly Dancing, then Sleep Powdering the "counter" so you can possibly get more BDs is awesome, especially since Doreida is pretty fast after one Butterfly Dance.
That's not how healing wish work...Hefes how it goes
Doredia uses healing wish!
Doredia feints!
Dugtrio switches in! Healing wish activates...but nothing happened!
Shandera uses...anything!
Dugtrio fainted!
Shandera has chortles!
Isn't Celebi, Jumpluff, Roserade, or God forbid, Erufuun better than Doreida in terms of support? Doreida definitely has competition when it comes to the old dogs such as Vileplume and friends.
All the things you mentioned are way better than Doreida in terms of pure support, since Doreida just doesn't have the bulk to pull off a pure supportive set, but Doreida has more special attack than all of them except Roserade.
Though Roserade has better special attack and overall better coverage, Doreida has access to Butterfly Dance, and really, any set Doreida that neglects Butterfly Dance is asking to be outclassed by some other grass type. Butterfly Dance is really Doreida's saving grace. Well it can also do the Petal Dance + Own Tempo thing but eh. That's better after being buffed by Butterfly Dance anyway.
Though Roserade has better special attack and overall better coverage, Doreida has access to Butterfly Dance, and really, any set Doreida that neglects Butterfly Dance is asking to be outclassed by some other grass type. Butterfly Dance is really Doreida's saving grace. Well it can also do the Petal Dance + Own Tempo thing but eh. That's better after being buffed by Butterfly Dance anyway.
I really hoped that this beauty gets a good movepool, she is one of my favorite 5th gen additions. Everybody is pretty much going to use Sleep Powder + Butterfly Dance, so she doesn't have room for many attacking moves.