Metagame Linked

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
why is king shield not banned?
Only Smeargle gets it, and the priority of the move is reduced unless you combine it with another priority move. It could maybe be annoying with something like King's Shield + Baby-Doll Eyes, both being at +1 prio overall and potentially lowering the Attack of the foe to -3, but it's not been problematic at all.
 
Now that this is going to be the next OM of the Month, I have a question.
Why aren't recharge moves completely banned from being linked moves?
That's how it worked in Mystery Dungeon, and I don't think anything would like using just Hyper Beam over 2 special moves (unless for coverage).
 
Now that this is going to be the next OM of the Month, I have a question.
Why aren't recharge moves completely banned from being linked moves?
That's how it worked in Mystery Dungeon, and I don't think anything would like using just Hyper Beam over 2 special moves (unless for coverage).
For one, I don't think we should ban such moves because MD did it. Second of all, as you pointed out, moves like hyper beam aren't always best. For example, Greninja does more damage with surf/scald + dark pulse than with hydro cannon, and gets some coverage out of it. There's no need to ban something that isn't broken.
 
  • Fake Out + switching move. Particularly annoying when using two of them, but they need to outspeed and not get worn down.

But if the pokemon has prankster u can't play.
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
  • Fake Out + switching move. Particularly annoying when using two of them, but they need to outspeed and not get worn down.
But if the pokemon has prankster u can't play.
What? Fake-turn has nothing to do with priority in this link context.
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
but with assisst it works
Assist is a turbo meme; the chances of getting a bad roll far outweigh the benefits of any Prankster priority you're getting (and this then gets blocked by Dark-types).
Hi, this was my first game in the meta but I found a really weird bug. My Mega Alakazam has Psychic terrain linked w/ Psychic. In turn 11 of the battle, I tried to use it but Psychic failed. In subsequent turns, it worked fine. Can anyone tell me how or why this happened?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7linked-954276228
Link above to replay
This is a bug on the server code at the moment. If you have an attack move and a status move in the link, always click on the attack move, even if it's second in the list.
 
Yay 1400! I don't know whether this has been brought up already, but I wonder whether Ash Greninja deserves a suspect. I'm not too experienced with ban policies, but the way I see it Ash Greninja puts a massive constraint on teambuilding. Between Dark Pulse/Pump and Surf/Pump, nearly nothing switches into it. As far as I can see, the only relatively viable defensive check to Ash Greninja is Tapu Bulu and maybe? Tapu Fini? Water Absorb Pokemon dont seem viable outside of just checking Ash Gren, and other than that about nothing can switch into it, and thanks to Taunt it can even muscle through things like Ferrothorn, Chansey, and Clefable. Offensive checks are a thing, but generally if Greninja gets in on anything slower than it, it's taking a kill and getting Battle Bond. To even confidently offensively check it though, you tend to need two checks, because between Psychic Terrain and Sticky Webs, the right support can shut down just about anything capable of revenging Greninja. It also beats nearly every hazard lead except like Aerodactyl and Ribombee (and 50/50 on shuckle predicting Red Card vs Mental Herb) and though being a good anti-lead isn't nessecarily broken, added to all the other thing it's just another bonus. It also makes things really rough for Trick Room teams since it can beat basically every viable setter and at least force 50/50s on the lead where the opponent guesses the first move in its Link to figure out whether to lead Magearna or a Psychic type. Maybe I haven't been around the meta long enough and some viable Ash Greninja checks will develop into the meta soon, but at least at the moment the immense pressure it puts on Balance, Stall, and Trick Room teams to specifically bring counters since it beats most common defensive Pokemon, makes me feel like it's an unhealthy presence in the meta. I'm curious to hear what y'all think tho.

Assist is a turbo meme
Yes, it is. But consider: Assist Shell Smash.
https://pokepast.es/f768f2aa6264aed3
 
Sharpedo @ Mental Herb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Protect
- Roar
This is set is something which has been working really well as a lead as it almost claims a pokemon every time
Your taunt/d-bond or protect first turn depending on if your faster or not and then taunt/dbond turn 2 if you protected 1 or Roar if you taunt dbond turn 1 so the mon your opponent brings in to beat it gets roared out the only way to beat it I can see is perpetual switching which can lead to getting in a threat you have left on your team like a greninja or something. Love to hear everyone's thoughts
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ivy

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
That's an interesting take on Sharpedo, considering most use it as a secondary Greninja that enjoys free Speed boosts. I'm sure it gets a lot of Destiny Bond action by virtue of the opponent trying to destroy it as soon as possible to prevent an assumed sweep.
 
I'm sure I could just test this but the opportunity to do so never came up, so: how does Sleep Talk interact with Linked moves? Do you essentially have a 50% chance of using the linked move?
 
Sharpedo @ Mental Herb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Protect
- Roar
This is set is something which has been working really well as a lead as it almost claims a pokemon every time
Your taunt/d-bond or protect first turn depending on if your faster or not and then taunt/dbond turn 2 if you protected 1 or Roar if you taunt dbond turn 1 so the mon your opponent brings in to beat it gets roared out the only way to beat it I can see is perpetual switching which can lead to getting in a threat you have left on your team like a greninja or something. Love to hear everyone's thoughts
I'm honestly a bit skeptical of this set. I can see it with surprise factor maybe getting somebody to throw out their Greninja answer trying to kill it, but on rematch or even just if they don't immediately kill it, your opponent can either deal with it using priority or choose which Pokemon they sack. Taunt feels odd because it seems to lose to most hazard leads, some naturally outspeed and get off hazards before it boosts and Shuckle, even assuming it isn't Mental Herb, tends to be on HO team where there's probably priority to deal with this Sharpedo. It's an interesting concept, but I think on an HO-team, which is I assume what you're using this on, it's hard to justify a set that doesn't set a helpful field condition and never gets more than one KO.
I'm sure I could just test this but the opportunity to do so never came up, so: how does Sleep Talk interact with Linked moves? Do you essentially have a 50% chance of using the linked move?
Sleep Talk doesn't pull the Link, it just pulls one move.
 
Please consider banning fake out/momentum as a linked move.

I see it's been mentioned here but Fakeout/U-turn is just ridiculous. The counters are limited to a faster fake out user, an inner focus mon (Who?), a protect user or tapu Lele. I guess a rocky helmet would be fine too, but it might be tricky unless you have multiple.

It's just such a dominating combo. Put two on your team, give yourself a Lele answer, a special attacker and you control the game. There's no switch ins and they cannot land a hit without a counter mon. Even if they have a counter, they cannot switch it in effectively, because uturn will still trigger and leave them at a disadvantage.

The attack itself doesn't do much damage, but it will kill eventually. It has high PP, and effectively negates any offensive initiative you can take.

My two current users are Meinshou and Incineroar. So Meinshou basically never gets worn down and Incineroar leaves your opponent with -1 attack and your choice of switch in. The last mons are just big hitters that take advantage of your momentum.

Edit: I think I've now realised fake out doesn't keep its priority. I thought it had, but I think it's just people running incredibly slow sets. I've moved first against a tapu Koko and a M lopunny.

Not sure that changes my mind though. It's still been incredibly effective and I'm really not sure if people are running slow sets or if there's a bug.
 
Last edited:

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
It's in the FAQ that the lowest priority in the link is what the link is at. People were just complacent and running slow sets, I suppose. Hasn't been a lot of FakeTurn spam lately (probably because Greninja outspeeds and OHKOes all of the users). It's a great technique for denying Trick Room setup, though.
 
I'm honestly a bit skeptical of this set. I can see it with surprise factor maybe getting somebody to throw out their Greninja answer trying to kill it, but on rematch or even just if they don't immediately kill it, your opponent can either deal with it using priority or choose which Pokemon they sack. Taunt feels odd because it seems to lose to most hazard leads, some naturally outspeed and get off hazards before it boosts and Shuckle, even assuming it isn't Mental Herb, tends to be on HO team where there's probably priority to deal with this Sharpedo. It's an interesting concept, but I think on an HO-team, which is I assume what you're using this on, it's hard to justify a set that doesn't set a helpful field condition and never gets more than one KO.

Sleep Talk doesn't pull the Link, it just pulls one move.
yeah it generally only works the first time around which is annoying but obvious for that kinda set it is definitely gimmicky and people fear it sweeping so they go for the kill the taunt is more to prevent bulkier stuff from recovering doing chip damage might mess around with another move in that slot
 
Assist is a turbo meme; the chances of getting a bad roll far outweigh the benefits of any Prankster priority you're getting (and this then gets blocked by Dark-types).

This is a bug on the server code at the moment. If you have an attack move and a status move in the link, always click on the attack move, even if it's second in the list.
Thanks!
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
Nobody's noticed this yet, but the one sample team in the second post is now outdated due to the Zygarde ban in OU. Please feel free to submit some teams that you've seen success with and I'll likely add them to the resources!

Tøp Tier Your team looks wack at first glance and might be confusing to newcomers looking to try out the meta, but it's clearly seen a lot of efficacy; would you want this added to the list?
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure how much Victini has been talked about, but it is quite the interesting threat in this meta. It's pretty versatile, and has a unique set of moves that allow it to pull off some sets it normally couldn't (or could, but would have less effectiveness).


V-create Spam (Victini) @ Assault Vest / Z-Move
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Bolt Strike
- Zen Headbutt / Filler

The main set you want to be using. Basically, hit something hard with V-Create and switch out, nullifying the boost. Bolt Strike for good coverage. Zen Headbutt for secondary STAB. If you don't need it, replace it with some coverage to hit Rocks or Grounds for SE damage.
This set is a great physical wallbreaker against most threats and enables a sweep for many mons, due to it essentially having 180 BP STAB that can pivot into another mon.


Special (Victini) @ Grassium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Fusion Flare
- Grass Knot / Energy Ball
- Flame Charge

This set is more prediction-heavy, but if you can pull it off, it can easily sweep teams. The combination of Fusion Bolt into Fusion Flare is very potent, pretty much hitting everything for insane damage. Fusion Bolt is very important to the set, as it is good Electric coverage, and after a Fusion Flare it has 200 BP. It also enables the next move in the link, Fusion Flare. Fusion Flare is a 200 BP STAB move with no drawbacks, so you don't have to switch out whenever you use it like you do with the V-Create set. Fusion Flare also enables Fusion Bolt to be the single best coverage move in the entire game. Grass Knot and Grassium Z are there to eliminate one of the most reliable checks to this set, Ground types. You can also use Energy Ball if you want more reliable coverage. Flame Charge is there so you can boost your speed so you don't get outsped, and is almost always the move you want to use first.
If you can remove Ground types, the combination of Fusion Bolt + Fusion Flare enables this Pokemon to be one of the most potent sweepers in the game (and it doesn't even need setup!)


Z-Celebrate (Victini) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blue Flare / V-Create
- Bolt Strike
- Celebrate
- Grass Knot

decent mixed sweeper

So Victini is pretty versatile and interesting. Definitely worth using.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ivy
Tøp Tier Your team looks wack at first glance and might be confusing to newcomers looking to try out the meta, but it's clearly seen a lot of efficacy; would you want this added to the list?
I mean I'm hoping my team'll be outdated soon from a Greninja ban, but ye. I agree though it's definitely a weird team, I think the real big stuff to get for sample teams would be Klefki HO and Trick Room, but I'm not opposed to mine going up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ivy
Bug Report
Bug #1 Quick Claw

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7linked-955451679
In turn 14, Smeargle used Imprison linked with Transform. Its Quick Claw activated, but Sceptile was still faster.

Another instance:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7linked-955465489

Bug #2 Prankster does not work correctly in turn 2
(Defog is linked with Hurricane and must be the first move, even in Trick Room) and another instance of the Quick Claw bug in Turn 9
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7linked-955460822
 
Last edited:
Bug Report
Bug #1 Quick Claw

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7linked-955451679
In turn 14, Smeargle used Imprison linked with Transform. Its Quick Claw activated, but Sceptile was still faster.

Another instance:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7linked-955465489

Bug #2 Prankster does not work correctly in turn 2
(Defog is linked with Hurricane and must be the first move, even in Trick Room) and another instance of the Quick Claw bug in Turn 9
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7linked-955460822
Quick Claw's interesting, your Prankster isn't working though because a Link takes the lowest priority, which is the 0 priority Hurricane.
 
Hi,

just wanna share with you this set, i got a lot a fun with it:

Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Frustration
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch

As you will find out, the effect of plasma fist will be activate on the frustration, letting you hit with 2 100 electric move in a row.

Actually, this set is very frail, due to the recoil of the life orb, but under an electric terrain, it OHKO a lot of threat, with the benefit of the exeptionnal speed of Zeraora.

I pair it with a ferro/tankchomp to be sure to punish the priority user, and a Koko for the electric terrain
 

Jaajgko

I will disband the soccer club
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I've always liked trick room teams and OMs are really the types of metagame where they shine the most, but out of all the other metagames this might be the one where they are the most powerful. Here is my own team : https://pokepast.es/3c6406f71de5ce1e
Pretty self-explanatory team, you have 3 trick room setters that provide 4 turns of it for the two breakers to do as much damage as possible. If a sweeper like Kartana starts setting up against Craw/Wak right after trick room ends, Lopunny can revenge kill while also being an offensive threat that can clean end game in case Cress and Magearna aren't able to setup trick. Liquidation on Crawdaunt is because at this point you're hitting so hard it would be a flex to run Crabhammer. Fairium-Z on Magearna is quite useful as some smartasses like to hard switch into their ground type on Magearna so you can punish them either on the switch or after seting up tricc while also making it a trick room sweeper on its own but can be replaced by Sitrus. Toxic on Cresselia is vital as Unaware users such as Quagsire or Clefable that are annoying for the team can get dealt with that way. Unaware Cosmic Power Clefable is still a huge problem for the team but eh it's an OM anw.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top