Metagame Linked

[AquaticPanic]

In the dream scenario, BB has +1 priority, and roost has 0 priority. This could be useful - Imagine a slow talonflame set that aimed to roost at the very end of turn to maximize chances of having gale wings active for next turn.

But here's the thing: A link's priority is determined by what move has the lowest priority, but in this case, a move changes priority in the middle of the link. A link should theorically have both of it's moves have the same priority

 

[Ivy]

Actually, this does raise a question: Gale Wings gives priority when at full HP. Brave Bird and Roost should both recieve the boost as long as it's at full health. However, it'll lose HP before using Roost, so will it be affected by Gale Wings? What will be the link's priority?

The game determines priority, Speed, etc. at the beginning of the turn, so the link will be raised to +1 fully at the start of the turn. The moves are always one immediately followed by the other. If you don't heal back to full hp, then the full link would lose priority when trying to use it next turn since you've lost Gale Wings.

If you get tricked a choice item right before you use your linked move, do you get locked into the first move in the link, or whichever you clicked? If you get locked into the first one, that would be problematic for those who use a stat boosting move in the first part of their link.

This is how it ought to work in my view (but it may not be implemented exactly like this): If you get Tricked before the link, then you end up using the first move in the link and only that move (because you now have the Choice item). If you get Tricked after the link, well, you have that one turn of grace period. Because the link is now disabled, you can pick your first, second, third, or fourth move to be locked into, as you would in a normal game.

 

[Nahtanojrepus]

so, just to clarify - if you lose a priority-granting effect during your first move (by gale wings BB, or, say, prankster role play (why tho)), the second move will retain priority, and then after that if the priority-granting effect does not come back (say, by healing for gale wings) then on the next turn there will be 0 priority. Is that correct?

I think this clarification is worth adding to the OP - it's not unexpected, but it's not immediately apparent, and is kinda confusing.

 

[Akumeoy]

Speaking of getting to ridiculous attack stats and Roost links here's a fun one

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Roost / Flame charge?
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake / Thunderpunch / Outrage / Dragon Claw

Belly drum is either suicide or an instant 6-0 depending on whether you can heal on the turn you use it, and zard X never uses it because it couldn't do that until now.

Meh, BellyZard is a meme. For starters, you're not 6-0'ing shit without a speed boost, so by "Roost" you mean "Flame Charge". But +6 is a little excessive for a mon as strong as ZardX -- something like +3 would do the trick without draining your precious HP, right?

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 397-468 (103.9 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+5 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 436-514 (114.1 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Try Dragon Dance + Swords Dance in the first two slots for a dedicated setup sweeper, Swords Dance + Flame Charge for the extra offensive pressure (+2 Flame Charge isn't half bad), or Dragon Dance + Flame Charge to optimize it for cleaning.

 

[AquaticPanic]

From what I read in the OP, Mat Block is not banned. So, with that in mind, some set ideas:

Probably not that good tbh

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mat Block
- Work Up
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse

Work Up ain't a good setup move, but it's as far as Greninja gets, so if you want to set up freely for the first turn, there's this

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond (Or Protean, idk)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mat Block
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse

Free damage

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mat Block
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse

Free Hazards


Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mat Block
- Haze
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse

Removes Set-Up foes might do (Seems to be something pretty common in the meta)


Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mat Block
- Taunt
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse

Free taunt.


Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mat Block
- Mind Reader
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse / Gunk Shot

Free 1-turn no guard


Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mat Block
- U-turn
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse

OH GOD

 

[Champion Leon]

this set wont work because at level you will only have 10 speed at level 1 with +1 speed

however the endure idea could be interesting since it should still live if they have 2 attacking moves linked (it works against multihit moves)


Bibarel @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endure
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Waterfall / Aqua Jet

if they do 75% or more you get +4 attack and +2 speed. Jet is if priority is common. with scarf breaking the link it will be probably uncommon so pair it with lele and i could see a couple sweeps

Put it back at level 100 with 0 HP, Def, SpD EVs and IVs. I will edit post.

 

[Ivy]

Yeah mat block kinda serves the exact same role as Protect (although it can't be exploited to +1 priority with Water Shuriken or Shadow Sneak, where Protect would be). Worth putting on the tentative watchlist. I don't think it got noticed in gen 6 because real Protect was allowed for the majority of its time as OMOTM.

 

[Gnapalm]

Haven't seen this asked specifically.
What happens if i have sky attack in slot 1? does it charge then go, and does this skip the slot 2 move? or do you effectively get three turns in one cuase the meta forces the slot 2 move to go next?

Here's a sample set for it

Archeops @ Power Herb
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

 

[Gnapalm]

Haven't seen this asked specifically.
What happens if i have sky attack in slot 1? does it charge then go, and does this skip the slot 2 move? or do you effectively get three turns in one cuase the meta forces the slot 2 move to go next?

Here's a sample set for it

Archeops @ Power Herb
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Here's what happens!

Turn one: power herb sky attack then boost acro.
Turn two: if you Sky attack without herb you set to charge SA and Acro again.
Turn three: You have to pick Sky Attack, it goes off and the game makes you Acro a third time.

Replay
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7linkedwip-205

Consistent boosted Acrobats while you charge Sky attack, cool stuff!

 

[bigro]

No one asked for this, but its here.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Atk / 208 SpA / 48 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Shell Smash
- Copycat
- Stored Power / Reversal
- Power Trip / Reversal

The concept is simple. You smash, you copycat, you smash again. Instant +4 attack/spa/speed. Go absolutely wild. Just go ham.

Stored Power and Power Trip are a given. 260 power ass blasters. Yum.
Reversal slaps the dark types that so very trouble you otherwise.
At +4 speed, we need hardly fuck all investment to operate, really we're picking off certain speed tiers. 0/4 speed outspeeds mostly everything, you can do this and be fine. 48 speed EVs will rid you of that nasty thorn in your side, hawlucha, as long as its adamant. (who runs a jolly lucha anyway).

Calcs? Not where we're going. But you can have some if you so desire.

Calcs

Standard blank mew(manaphy) as a baseline.
+4 252+ Atk Smeargle Power Trip (260 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 359-423 (105.2 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Rain? More like what a drain.
+4 252 SpA Smeargle Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 343-404 (117.4 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252+ Atk Smeargle Power Trip (260 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swampert-Mega: 330-389 (96.7 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+4 252+ Atk Smeargle Power Trip (260 BP) vs. 248 HP / 32+ Def Pelipper: 317-373 (98.1 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+4 208 SpA Smeargle Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 379-446 (134.8 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 208 SpA Smeargle Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 864-1018 (257.9 - 303.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252+ Atk Smeargle Power Trip (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 274-323 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Fuck em up. (Beware! Power trip is a contact move!)

Lando? More like please go.
+4 208 SpA Smeargle Stored Power (240 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 336-396 (87.9 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

You can even score a 2hko on Magearna.
+4 252+ Atk Smeargle Power Trip (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 158-187 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
+4 252+ Atk Smeargle Power Trip (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 158-187 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Rule of thumb. If it isn't explicitly a big fat wall it wont live.

Rarely Asked Questions:
"Why not shell smash + Power trip/Stored Power, then you can run reversal with both of them!"
No, you fool, your first attack leaves you way too open for abuse. What if you need to switch moves after? You just played yourself. Also, you're pretty damn slow turn 2.
"Why not flail?"
For what, mandibuzz? You running a move for one pokemon now? One pokemon that hardly sees use? Come off it son.
"Why not Kings Shield+Shell smash?"
Smeargle has base 70 speed, we aren't even investing in it much to boot. You really think a 0 priority Kings Shield is going to do the job?

Disclaimer:
Don't you dare @me with priority moves.
Yes this is walled by the very obvious unaware anything.
Yes this requires a sash in a metagame of doublehitters. Not everything is gonna do that ok.
Yes it requires team support for hazard control.
Yes pink blobs ruin the fun. But that's just a general vibe they have unrelated to this set.
Yes this is actually quite bad. But damn, if it isn't funny.

 

[Akashi]

with the recent changes to linked and how it works now,
we need to suspect/ban hawlucha like rn

Tapu Koko @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- thunderbolt
- u-turn
- nature madness
- Taunt

Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge

these 2 work so well together its too much.
rocky helmet is so good in this meta and it needs to spammed alot more. but onto the main point.
linked is a very offensive meta, usually all games and I MEAN ALL GAMES NOT 99% I MEAN 100% OF ALL GAMES will and should be "who checks who first and who kills who first" "nothing counters anything every checks everything" thats how it goes, now hawlucha doesnt care about these things and will sweep ur team and u cant do anything about it. lucha is the bane of ho's existence it shouldnt even be allowed here. granted there is counterplay to hawlucha dont get me wrong, i dont think its unbeatable, stuff like helmet chomp and bulky helmet koko(my set ty) and random helmet mons can check it/beat, but its really unhealthy when it gets going it wouldnt stop

 

[Talpr0ne]

with the recent changes to linked and how it works now,
we need to suspect/ban hawlucha like rn

Tapu Koko @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nature's Madness
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Taunt

Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge

these 2 work so well together its too much.
rocky helmet is so good in this meta and it needs to spammed alot more. but onto the main point.
linked is a very offensive meta, usually all games and I MEAN ALL GAMES NOT 99% I MEAN 100% OF ALL GAMES will and should be "who checks who first and who kills who first" "nothing counters anything every checks everything" thats how it goes, now hawlucha doesnt care about these things and will sweep ur team and u cant do anything about it. lucha is the bane of ho's existence it shouldnt even be allowed here. granted there is counterplay to hawlucha dont get me wrong, i dont think its unbeatable, stuff like helmet chomp and bulky helmet koko(my set ty) and random helmet mons can check it/beat, but its really unhealthy when it gets going it wouldnt stop

Uh, you can't link Nature's Madness with other moves.

 

[Akashi]

Uh, you can't link Nature's Madness with other moves.

fixed

 

[flufi]

Venusaur @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Growth
- Weather Ball
- Giga Drain

Venusaur looks like a pretty potent threat. It uses Sunny Day and than Growth immediately after, doubling it's speed AND doubling it's special attack thanks to Growth. Giga Drain is simply grass STAB and recovery, and Weather Ball becomes a 100 BP Fire type move under sun, making it a powerful coverage move that cleans out Steel types and opposing Grass types.

 

[x TwirlyPanda x]

Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: Thicc Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Encore
- Disable
- Whirlpool
- Rest / Aqua Ring / other filler

So how will this work? Slow Encore + Disable forces them to either switch or struggle via whirlpool trapping

Pretty much beats any stall mon w/o magic bounce or taunt if you use rest for toxic

Edit:
Editing so I don’t double post

Komala @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Last Resort

So is this a free 280 BP immediately? Cause that seems spooky

+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Komala Last Resort vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 397-468 (98.2 - 115.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Komala Last Resort vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 730-861 (103.9 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Marigold]

Been playing this meta on a side server, a few things stand out to me:

Free Setup
Stat boosting moves in slots 1/2 are absolutely broken, the fundamental idea behind setup is that you have to leave yourself open for a turn to boost stats. Now, we're essentially giving everything free huge powers, unburdens, and nasty plots. Sometimes even a combination of both. This is NOT reasonable to prep for, because now every team mandates having scarf ditto to deal with most setup, being trick room based (fails if the setup overpowers TR setters once TR wears out), or running unaware (which loses to most double attacks anyway, so it's not viable). Veil teams only exaggerate this issue, providing free turns to setup and attack simultaneously.

Swagger-Twave
Swagger Twave foul play is also complete cancer again and only takes a single turn to set up. The odds of NOT locking into parafusion typically are...
0.75*0.70*100% = 52.5%

Game immediately devolves into coin flips. And then you factor in double moves...
0.75*0.70*0.75*0.70*100% = 27.56%

Basically, full para teams can just hax their way through anything by praying for enough 50/50's that they can actively fish for, and then spam fake out + u-turn to clean the game.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7linkedwip-154 replay showing my point. Normally, PZ + Serp should statistically have an advantage to win this game, but instant parafusion devolved the endgame into a coinflip, which I lost. This is different from standard ladder play because it usually takes several turns to properly set up parafusion, which statistically gives the receiver more odds to break it.

Weather

In a metagame where choice scarf is difficult to optimally use, weather (notably rain) is extremely powerful and unwallable. You can easily hazard stack with hazard + rain-boosted stab to 2hko hazard removal, 2hko water resists with double water stabs, or setup + rain-boosted stab to snowball through teams (like SD + Waterfall, Power-up Punch + Waterfall)... all while outspeeding the entire unboosted metagame. Overwhelming strategy that breaks many core fundamentals to Pokemon in this meta.

Other potent strategies such as webs, veil, dual screens etc. are fine as an archetype (but may have problematic abusers still) if setup is banned from linking.

 

[Nalaroa]

with the recent changes to linked and how it works now,
we need to suspect/ban hawlucha like rn

Tapu Koko @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- thunderbolt
- u-turn
- nature madness
- Taunt

Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge

these 2 work so well together its too much.
rocky helmet is so good in this meta and it needs to spammed alot more. but onto the main point.
linked is a very offensive meta, usually all games and I MEAN ALL GAMES NOT 99% I MEAN 100% OF ALL GAMES will and should be "who checks who first and who kills who first" "nothing counters anything every checks everything" thats how it goes, now hawlucha doesnt care about these things and will sweep ur team and u cant do anything about it. lucha is the bane of ho's existence it shouldnt even be allowed here. granted there is counterplay to hawlucha dont get me wrong, i dont think its unbeatable, stuff like helmet chomp and bulky helmet koko(my set ty) and random helmet mons can check it/beat, but its really unhealthy when it gets going it wouldnt stop

lol

Ya this is waay overblown. Firstly, why are u using such a crappy set on tapu koko? In a meta where a lot pokemon OHKO other pokemon and fat mons are uncommon, natures madness is normally useless, roost would be better (or defog)

Hawlucha: it isn't busted. It's good, but isnt as OP as you are making it look. Just use tapu koko or jirachi and/or some priority moves, which are super common in this meta, or bulky mega altaria, or the ever-common unaware clefable.

Finally, you show yourself why rocky helmet isn't useful and 'should be spammed', when u use hawlucha with swords dance + acrobatics.

Nearly all pokemon will be using setup + attack, as its generally more effective than attack + attack (cus the first time you use it it benefits all other turns, and does more damage on the first turn than two attacks), which'll mean rocky helmet only is used once, if that

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Having trouble with setup + attacking move? These two sets I used last gen literally trolls MANY of the setup + attacking move users.

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Cotton Guard / U-turn
- Protect

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Protect
- Earthquake

Protect isn't banned, just not allowed in first and second moveslot. So with this, if your opponent doesn't have two attacking moves in first slot, sound moves or Infiltrator, it's impossible to break your sub.

 

[anaconja]

You can play Linked at dragonheaven.psim.us; if you see me (aCasualMemeLord) there, I can make a few tours and test some restrictions.

So I created a few tours recently, and here are some huge threats that probably should at least looked at:

Shell Smash. This move originally takes one turn to set up, making it fairly risky to use unless one equips a Focus Sash or White Herb. However, in Linked, sweepers can set up and immediately start attacking, causing chains of setting up and (mostly) OHKOing. It also doesn't help that almost all Shell Smashers are Rock Type and therefore resist common priority of Fake Out and Feint, even with Mega Pinsir's Aerilate.

Speed-boosting Abilities. Swift Swim and Surge Surfers are the biggest threats, as one can use Shell Smash Omastar (see above), Belly Drum Poliwrath, Power-up Punch Swampert-Mega, and Nasty Plot Raichu-Alola. Some mons are already broken without boosting moves (see Kingdra with a 205 BP nuke). In a meta based almost entirely on hyper offensive teams, speed control is key, and such abilities are therefore overpowered and overcentralizing. Rocky Helmet ain't KOing anything soon, either.

Trick Room. It's another form of speed control, and hosts an entirely new set of broken mons: Swords Dance Mawile-Mega, Swords Dance Marowak-Alola, Belly Drum Azumarill, Stakataka, and Magearna, to name the common ones. As I stated previously, there is very limited counterplay to this playstyle once Trick Room is up, besides Taunt, sacking your own mons to stall out Trick Room, and running slow mons yourself, all of which are very restrictive and makes Trick Room overcentralizing.

Serene Grace. As stated in the OP, Jirachi is incredibly powerful if it outspeeds the opponent (easily done by setting Sticky Web or paralyzing the opponent), causing it to flinch 84% of the time thanks to Iron Head and Heart Stamp. The main reason for Serene Grace (or at least Jirachi) to go is its uncompetitiveness. Instead of skill winning the game, it's whether you can actually move before the opponent flinches you to death. And I'm assuming no one is trusting a 16% move chance.

 

[Akashi]

lol

Ya this is waay overblown. Firstly, why are u using such a crappy set on tapu koko? In a meta where a lot pokemon OHKO other pokemon and fat mons are uncommon, natures madness is normally useless, roost would be better (or defog)

Hawlucha: it isn't busted. It's good, but isnt as OP as you are making it look. Just use tapu koko or jirachi and/or some priority moves, which are super common in this meta, or bulky mega altaria, or the ever-common unaware clefable.

Finally, you show yourself why rocky helmet isn't useful and 'should be spammed', when u use hawlucha with swords dance + acrobatics.

Nearly all pokemon will be using setup + attack, as its generally more effective than attack + attack (cus the first time you use it it benefits all other turns, and does more damage on the first turn than two attacks), which'll mean rocky helmet only is used once, if that

just by ur post alone i can tell u have never played this meta at all. u dont understand how this meta is played either.
let me make u understand, that tapu koko set is alot better than u think it is nature madness has its uses, there's no point in running roost if ur given almost no chance to do so, the only good input in this post of yours was suggesting defog which is pretty nice.

helmet and protective pads will be spammed alot more than u think, even some gen 6 top tier mons will still be top tier here like helmet chomp which makes hell for any physical attacker like jirachi etc. scarf prevents the link which makes jirachi even worse this gen, i dont know why people are sucking off this mon alot more now its not going to be broken at all because when it had scarf and spamming 2 flinch moves at once no one complained. jirachi is a very good mon and with stuff like protective pads etc it wiill be a fun mon to use.

"unaware clefable" "bulky mega altaria"

both of these mons/sets are not common plz do not spread false information like that.
even then if ur running bulky mega altaria u still lose because altaria cant revenge hawlucha

252 SpA Pixilate Altaria-Mega Hyper Voice vs. +1 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 302-356 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 302-356 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

this is if ur offensive.

0 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 242-288 (72.2 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Pixilate Altaria-Mega Hyper Voice vs. +1 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 242-288 (72.2 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this is if ur defensive

mega altaria no matter the situation can check hawlucha

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria-Mega: 211-249 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria-Mega: 315-372 (89.2 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Altaria-Mega: 288-339 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+4 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Altaria-Mega: 430-507 (147.7 - 174.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

when ur teambuilding u HAVE to be able to take on a +4 hawlucha with boosted defenses. otherwise u will lose, altaria cant be common in a meta where jirachi is spammed and steels are everywhere literally no one will use mega altaria in this tier period, at least not defensive mega altaria, dd mega altaria might be used but its not going to do anything to stop hawlucha at +2 it will just drop.

unaware clefable would be an amazing answer to hawlucha there's no doubt about that
however its unviable in this tier, u should use quagire even then its pointless to use unaware users in such an offensive environment where 2 moves can be spammed endlessly they can be easily overwhelmed by any mon. this isnt ou, dont act like the same answers to lucha are the same ou this line of thinking is so bad and needs to stop. the only viable option of teambuilding is ho in this metagame, there's some balance teams that pull it off but were very meme at best there's too many offensive pressure to even consider using stuff like clef/chans/defensive mons.

"some priority moves"
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Feint vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 116-138 (34.6 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Quick Attack vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 152-182 (45.3 - 54.3%) -- 48% chance to 2HKO

how are u liking that a pinsir with priority cant revenge kill a hawlucha even after rocks lol.
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. +1 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 162-192 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- approx. 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 134-162 (37.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Gale Wings Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 210-248 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gale Wings Talonflame Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 330-390 (91.9 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
just some examples of some common se priority that fail to revenge a lucha

252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Play Rough vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 242-283 (67.4 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 55-64 (15.3 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO

granted most would run z move mimikyu which is the only set that successfully checks
252+ Atk Mimikyu Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 356-420 (99.1 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

keep in mind hawlucha can run ALOT more bulk if it wanted to these are just ou sets that are customized for there threats.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Hmm. I did play Linked last gen and I can tell you that if you say Unaware Clefable is not common, you are certainly wrong. Here's the reason.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware / Magic Guard (both are good)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Calm Mind / Moonlight
- Stored Power
- Moonblast / Moonlight / Calm Mind

This particular set, can survive nearly anything that uses setup + attacking move and once you increase your defenses with Cosmic Power, you can pretty much make this mon near-unbreakable AND sweep with Stored Power. Cosmic Power + Calm Mind in a link is the most common due to how devastating it is after setup, while Cosmic Power + Moonlight in a link means that you can stay healthy AND increase your bulk at the same time, making it much harder to handle if you doesn't 1HKO Clefable. If you're not carerful, this is a powerful Offense destroyer and can 6-0 teams.

 

[Nalaroa]

just by ur post alone i can tell u have never played this meta at all. u dont understand how this meta is played either.
let me make u understand, that tapu koko set is alot better than u think it is nature madness has its uses, there's no point in running roost if ur given almost no chance to do so, the only good input in this post of yours was suggesting defog which is pretty nice.

helmet and protective pads will be spammed alot more than u think, even some gen 6 top tier mons will still be top tier here like helmet chomp which makes hell for any physical attacker like jirachi etc. scarf prevents the link which makes jirachi even worse this gen, i dont know why people are sucking off this mon alot more now its not going to be broken at all because when it had scarf and spamming 2 flinch moves at once no one complained. jirachi is a very good mon and with stuff like protective pads etc it wiill be a fun mon to use.

"unaware clefable" "bulky mega altaria"

both of these mons/sets are not common plz do not spread false information like that.
even then if ur running bulky mega altaria u still lose because altaria cant revenge hawlucha

252 SpA Pixilate Altaria-Mega Hyper Voice vs. +1 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 302-356 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 302-356 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

this is if ur offensive.

0 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 242-288 (72.2 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Pixilate Altaria-Mega Hyper Voice vs. +1 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 242-288 (72.2 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this is if ur defensive

mega altaria no matter the situation can check hawlucha

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria-Mega: 211-249 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria-Mega: 315-372 (89.2 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Altaria-Mega: 288-339 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+4 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Altaria-Mega: 430-507 (147.7 - 174.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

when ur teambuilding u HAVE to be able to take on a +4 hawlucha with boosted defenses. otherwise u will lose, altaria cant be common in a meta where jirachi is spammed and steels are everywhere literally no one will use mega altaria in this tier period, at least not defensive mega altaria, dd mega altaria might be used but its not going to do anything to stop hawlucha at +2 it will just drop.

unaware clefable would be an amazing answer to hawlucha there's no doubt about that
however its unviable in this tier, u should use quagire even then its pointless to use unaware users in such an offensive environment where 2 moves can be spammed endlessly they can be easily overwhelmed by any mon. this isnt ou, dont act like the same answers to lucha are the same ou this line of thinking is so bad and needs to stop. the only viable option of teambuilding is ho in this metagame, there's some balance teams that pull it off but were very meme at best there's too many offensive pressure to even consider using stuff like clef/chans/defensive mons.

"some priority moves"
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Feint vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 116-138 (34.6 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Quick Attack vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 152-182 (45.3 - 54.3%) -- 48% chance to 2HKO

how are u liking that a pinsir with priority cant revenge kill a hawlucha even after rocks lol.
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. +1 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 162-192 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- approx. 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 134-162 (37.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Gale Wings Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 210-248 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gale Wings Talonflame Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 330-390 (91.9 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
just some examples of some common se priority that fail to revenge a lucha

252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Play Rough vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 242-283 (67.4 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 55-64 (15.3 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO

granted most would run z move mimikyu which is the only set that successfully checks
252+ Atk Mimikyu Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 356-420 (99.1 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

keep in mind hawlucha can run ALOT more bulk if it wanted to these are just ou sets that are customized for there threats.

Who's usin' jolly pinsir lol? wtf are u saying I haven't played this meta? obviously its you who hasnt.

Firstly, bulky mega altaria is using 172 hp and uses dragon dance, and return in one move (which is how linked works)

I feel like I need to actually write this now:
+1 252 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 450-530 (134.3 - 158.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also, now that we're actually looking into it, alolan raichu outspeeds and ohko's lucha, and alolan raichu is fantastic in linked (fastest pokemon, and +2 tbolts in electric terrain ohko nearly anything).

Also boosting unaware clef is a thing.

I've played a lot more linked than you have, cus I've never seen you on the alt servers

 

[Akashi]

Who's usin' jolly pinsir lol? wtf are u saying I haven't played this meta? obviously its you who hasnt.

Firstly, bulky mega altaria is using 172 hp and uses dragon dance, and return in one move (which is how linked works)

I feel like I need to actually write this now:
+1 252 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 450-530 (134.3 - 158.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also, now that we're actually looking into it, alolan raichu outspeeds and ohko's lucha, and alolan raichu is fantastic in linked (fastest pokemon, and +2 tbolts in electric terrain ohko nearly anything).

Also boosting unaware clef is a thing.

I've played a lot more linked than you have, cus I've never seen you on the alt servers

doesnt matter if its jolly/adamant, it still fails to beat hawlucha, both natures are viable and good, using jolly pinsir isnt "bad" dont know why u give people that impression for.


+1 252 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 450-530 (134.3 - 158.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO ?
what is this calc saying? this literally means nothing. this proves nothing.

this situation will never happen, this is why i believe u have never played linked even if u have u must be really bad because
u havent sounded any good arguments at all, u literally posted a calc that has nothing and does nothing for ur argument at all.

this situation can never happen in linked
be realistic no one cares about calcs like this.
who is going to purposely let a altaria get up a dd and proceed to return a hawlucha? r u really that idealistic?
r u not aware that hawlucha no matter the situation will be faster than altaria? hawlucha outspeeds a +2 altaria and kills.
r u going to come up with some random ass set just to support ur claims? it will still lose. no one is switching hawlucha into an altaria
altaria can not stop a +4 hawlucha nor a +2 hawlucha its not possible because i am not sure if u even read my previous post, if 252 hp /252 def+ loses how the hell can some 172 hp set win? god.


"alolan raichu outspeeds and ohko's lucha," "fastest pokemon, and +2 tbolts in electric terrain ohko nearly anything"
wrong lucha can easily be faster than raichu if it wanted to, it just loses bulk and even with its lost bulk it still tanks every priority excluding talonflare and pinsir thats it. again why r u so idealistic, electric stab isnt as spammable as u think it is. using alolan raichu restricts ur teambuilding forcing u to run koko, meanwhile hawlucha can run with 4 tapu and they are all viable. stuff like bulu/fini/koko/lele will all be everywhere u honestly believe that "alolan raichu can ohko nearly anything" even in terrain it fails to ohko common checks. there's so many checks for that i dont even know u even consider this at all.

lastly, u havent play this meta more than i have just because u think i havent been in alt servers LOL im not even going to comment on this because i cant tell if ur joking or being serious. i have played linked since the beginning of gen 6 and played alot of mashed up tours with it in all variants even before this meta was a thing in gen 6 so calm down there lol. i was playing this meta before u even existed lol, were u playing this meta 3-4 years ago? lol

Also boosting unaware clef is a thing.

Hmm. I did play Linked last gen and I can tell you that if you say Unaware Clefable is not common, you are certainly wrong. Here's the reason.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware / Magic Guard (both are good)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Calm Mind / Moonlight
- Stored Power
- Moonblast / Moonlight / Calm Mind

This particular set, can survive nearly anything that uses setup + attacking move and once you increase your defenses with Cosmic Power, you can pretty much make this mon near-unbreakable AND sweep with Stored Power. Cosmic Power + Calm Mind in a link is the most common due to how devastating it is after setup, while Cosmic Power + Moonlight in a link means that you can stay healthy AND increase your bulk at the same time, making it much harder to handle if you doesn't 1HKO Clefable. If you're not carerful, this is a powerful Offense destroyer and can 6-0 teams.

hmmm never said its not thing its just not viable, unfortunately people like u guys actually believe that this mon can "6-0" offense teams WHEN THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED LAST GEN, these sort of statements has really worried about this community as a whole. as i said in my previous posts clefable is an answer to hawlucha but its not viable do u actually believe that u can get to +6 with a clefable in linked? my god literally any offensive steel beats it. magic guard can not be used period because if it is magic guard it will lose to hawlucha, if ur running magic guard clefable u cant beat hawlucha, unaware should be the only set that clefable uses.
magic guard is terrible its not good at all.

have u even played linked 3 years ago? the only set used was unaware and it did the same quagire did, stop set up sweepers magic guard was never a thing. now that the amount of steels literally doubled magearna will literally shit on this mon in tr builds

 

[rsbound]

lopunny is broken
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7linked-727511040
only mew at max health and max def can take a hit?

 

[Brodaha]

I cant teambuild for anything, does anyone have a team they can let me use?