(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

From what I've read/seen, the AI also typically prioritises status moves if it can inflict a status (e.g. if it knows Thunder Wave and the opponent isn't paralysed) and likes to get a stat advantage if it knows a boosting move (i.e. it will use Agility until it outspeeds, or use Swords Dance until its Attack is higher than the foe's Defence).
 
Last edited:

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Despite this, I find their design as Pokemon oddly flip-floppy/half-baked. (...) Cresselia was given a pure Psychic typing that makes her extremely disadvantaged against Darkrai even in this respect, which would tip this confrontation in the latter's favor even when things like Mystery Dungeon depict an actively-spreading Darkrai as constantly evading (i.e. running away from) Cresselia.

Besides this, Cresselia's movepool seems odd to me: (...) it lacks abilities or much for moves that would allow her to actually remove Sleep from teammates besides itself, moreso having ways she can to act in spite of Sleep like Snore and Sleep Talk. The closest she has in this aspect is Lunar Dance, which will cure a recipient of Status including Sleep, but also faints her in the process so she can't do it again if Darkrai's still in play to cause more issues (even outside gameplay context, it gives the sense the move exhausts her enough to need a long rest).

I would have expected maybe a signature version of Heal Bell, since admittedly most of the existing/generic means of sleep prevention don't match Cresselia from a flavor/aesthetic standpoint. This would be the most basic way to implement it, but other options could include ability options akin to Healer or Sweet Veil (or again, reskinned equivalents for Cresselia).
Story & Gameplay segregation. Their designs were made to match their lore and treated as separate Pokemon instead of part of a duo (likely because Cresselia is a Legendary and Darkrai is a Mythical, Darkrai when it was introduced may have just been seen as an add-on to Cresselia's lore rather both having been designed in tandem).

Typing: Psychic makes sense for Cresselia as it uses its innate power to ease the mind of people, particularly giving people who are asleep peaceful dreams. Meanwhile Dark for Darkrai depends on the interpretation which we've seen a few takes on. For the games we've mostly seen malicious/malevolent Darkrai which are acting villainous so it makes sense they're Dark. But then we have Darkrai like from the movie which are kind and just want to be left alone, not really "Evil" (which is the Dark-types Japanese name) but more misunderstood and it's not its fault it naturally gives people nightmares. Not to mention the Darkrai in the games could very well also be outliners, individuals who gave into lonely despair and decided if Arceus made it into a monster that gives nightmares it might as well act like it.

Lore Vs Gameplay: So how is it that Darkrai runs away from Cresselia despite the Type advantage? Well that only plays when the two are fighting each other, especially in a Trainer Battle. When Darkrai is around causing nightmares, Cresselia doesn't look for it and start battling, rather it likely appears and starts giving off good psychic vibes which counteract Darkrai's natural nightmare aura. These psychic vibes also likely make Darkrai feel uncomfortable causing it to flee as it was either just hiding and picked a bad spot or, if it was planning something sinister, that plan is now ruined as it would have likely involved nightmares which no one is experiencing now. So, what's the difference in battle? Cresselia likely uses up a lot of energy to create the good vibes which have a specific purpose; but in battle these good vibes are next to useless so it's not going to waste its energy to emanate. Darkrai, meanwhile, is there to fight; even if Cresselia sends out the good vibes, while it'll still feel unease from them, its can't really run away so stands its ground.

Movepool & Signatures: So now that we concluded that when battling Cresselia isn't really using its innate power but what it can naturally do as a psychic creature, notably one that is constantly hunted down for its wings, I think we get a better picture of why its movepool isn't as supportive you'd think it is or doesn't get a Signature which matches its innate good dream power.

So there was a little thing with Ingo in Legends Arceus that bugged me.

not that he was there, or that he was a faller or anything like that, just that they didn't go into any detail about the fact that he joined the Pearl Clan

That's kind of really notable and they don't talk about it at all. He's a stranger with amnesia, who probably appeared from nowhere (at BEST they saw him land from a wormhole) and strange clothes but they let him into their clan and he eventually became a Warden to one of the ten most sacred Pokemon in the land. That's...pretty substnatial amount of trust required on their part that they don't get into at all, in a game whose kinda-sorta theme is about trust and being open to other ideas. Iridia has to be convicned that the Balm thing would work at all, and is wary of us but what about Ingo? What was that process like?? And while the timeline of Ingo being here isn't reall laid out iirc I feel like he's had to have been around since before Galactic showed up 2 years prior.
Just a missed opportunity, I feel.
In addition to him being good at handling Pokemon, I would assume another factor is that the Pearl Clan likely found him first. There is a clear sense of tribalism between the two clans with the Galaxy Team creating a third "tribe". With tribalism there's a lot of bias that everything your tribe does is right and everything the other tribes do should be scrutinize until proven right/good or wrong/bad. At the start of the game the player is essentially adopted into the Galaxy Team "tribe" hence Adaman and Irida being a bit skeptical of the player and their story & accomplishments at first. Meanwhile, with Ingo, the Pearl Clan found him, took him in, and upon seeing his Pokemon skills and him having no place to go adopted him into their tribe. Yes, in this sense Ingo is no different from the player except who found them, which at this time, is actually a major difference when it comes to loyalty and trust. The fact that, even after hearing your story, Irida didn't bring up Ingo until it was absolutely necessary shows Irida considers Ingo a member of the Pearl Clan thus its her duty to keep him safe as she would with any other member; this Galaxy Team stranger claiming to have the same story as Ingo is very suspicious and maybe a danger to Ingo so best to observe them herself before bringing in Ingo and revealing his story.

Dear Game Freak: If for future games you intend to do mixes of normal cross-gen and regional evos as was done in PLA, can you please for the love of god make the distinction crystal clear by actually showing the evolution process or just stating what it evolves from with zero ambiguity? We've had two cases so far (Sirfetch'd and Basculegion) of people getting hyped under the expectation it's a normal cross-gen only to find out last minute it's form-based, and both of those times it came off as deceptive advertising even if that was not the intent, ESPECIALLY in the latter case. Even for something like Wyrdeer which turned out to be a normal evolution in the end we were left hanging for months debating its nature when all that was needed was to show a picture of wild Stantler. Heck, not even that: Regional forms already have blurbs on the game websites with the OG's art captioned "Previously discovered form". Would it kill you to just do that for evos too?? "This is an evolution of OG Dunsparce! On the other hand, this only evolves from PokeSpainian Maractus!". There! Simple! So much needless confusion and frustration prevented with minimal effort.
But then they would ruin the surprise of whether they did make a Regional Variant of the prevo. It's pretty much a case of having their cake and eating it too: they want to show off the cool new Pokemon but doing so means they can't keep it a surprise, so instead they keep it a guessing game whether the prevo is the same or a regional variant. And since people are arguing about it it keeps the new Pokemon which people are hyped for in active discussion longer which is what GF really wants.

The move I am specifically talking about here is Gear Grind, which is a move that has never been shown in the anime because for whatever reason Klinklang has very rarely shown up in the anime, but the move is very weirdly animated and it doesn't align with the flavor text of the move or what the move's original name was. In Japanese, the move's name is "Gear Saucer", and the flavor description is that Klinklang or its pre-evos literally throwing one of its minigears at the opponent twice, or in some cases throwing both of its minigears at the opponent, aligning with that.

(...)

What's really odd, however, is that the move itself is not animated to showcase this. Instead, Gear Grind's animation is two gears coming together onto the target and grinding together to cause damage. This is likely what caused the translation error and caused the move's name to become "Gear Grind instead". (...) It's very clear the move description and the move animation do not align, nor do they align with the flavor text of the Klink line. It's completely bizarre.
Hmm, well let's see if we can't make both descriptions work:

Klink: It's essentially two mini-gears, so it's pretty much firing itself at the target. The first gear hits (saucer)), which then the second appearing on the opponent's other side to spin (grind). Once that damage is done, it likely uses electromagnetism to swing itself around so now the second one is hitting (saucer) and the first one comes in on the other end to spin (grind).

Klang: It launches the faced mini-gear at the opponent first (saucer), and then sends in the faceless mini-gear as both to spin (grind) and also recall the faced mini-gear back onto the main body. However they purposely go into the wrong spots so that the faceless mini-gear must be sent at the opponent (saucer) and the faced mini-gear send to spin (grind) and to retrieve it which they then fit back to proper place.

Klinklang: First while charging the red gear it launches the faced mini-gear at the opponent (saucer). By this time the red gear is full charged and sends in the faceless mini-gear to do the spin (grind). Both return, but since the red gear still has power, the faceless mini-gear is sent flying back at the opponent (saucer). Using the last of the red gears charge, it sends the faced mini-gear to complete the spinning damage (grind) as both return to Klinklang and fit into their proper place now that the red gear isn't charging and flicking them.

I... did not remember this part.
Probably cause it makes no sense. Like, "die" in what sense? It's a freakin' gear. Like, "die" as it runs out of power to keep spinning? Well, can't you then just recharge it?

I like white Basculin's design and think its pretty cool how very small changes give it a completely different personality from Red and Blue, and also think its kinda cool how they took a mon with multiple forms and decided to make a new one for it. That all said...

WHY DOES THIS THING EVEN EXIST???
My two cents: Maybe they felt Basculegion's lore didn't make sense with how they setup the Red & Blue Basculin relation. If Red & Blue both existed in Husui, they would be fighting all the time each other for territory. This already splits the population in half. Now we gotta take into account how many Basculin are killed by the rival color which lowers the number of available Basculin even further. And then if they both "share" a breeding ground that means you got two rival groups trying to beat the other up the river, there being little cooperation even among Basculin of the same color as they're all too busy trying to outswim a rival color Basculin ahead and/or behind them. OR, it could just be that Red & Blue Basculin do not have a perilous journey to their breeding grounds like White-Stripe does, hence they don't need (or have the souls needed) to have a Basculegion evolution.

Basculegion can only exist in a Basculin population that works together. White-Stripe has no time for in-fighting like with Red & Blue, their breeding grounds up a river is dangerous and kills many of them. They need EVERY SINGLE individual that can make it up to the breeding ground, hence why the souls of the dead ones keep hanging on to give the living ones a boost with some evolving to Basculegion to contain all the souls. But you don't get possessed by souls who died a violent and meaningless death (for the individual soul as it never got to breed to continue its lineage) without their being residual anger, luckily its always aimed at would-be predators to assure the overall survival of the Basculin species.

Now, the question is, would White-Stripe still be gentle if introduced to bodies of water with populations of Red & Blue? And if it does remain gentle, how would Red & Blue react? It's a different colored Basculin, but it's posing no threat and when pressured give up so not much hostility is needed if any. Would they even be able to think of them being some kind of neutral party, not part of their school but are allowed to travel through their territories. Speaking of territories, would White even recognize there being territories or, since it views all Basculin as one, not understand thus act there is no boundary line (which can then go back to Red and Blue letting White be as it sees no territory hence isn't a danger of taking it). And then we throw Basculegion into this mess.

Everyone keeps jumping through hoops to justify it but at the end of the day I think they just wanted a new basculin that could evolve with a gender gimmick to emphasize salmon behaviors (though the male basculegion really needed an exaggerated hump)
That too.

An incredibly minor complaint: the internal ordering of Natures indicate that each of the five neutral natures are meant to be seen as increasing and decreasing the same stat:

Hardy (+Atk, -Atk)
Docile (+Def, -Def)
Serious (+Spe, -Spe)
Bashful (+SpA, -SpA)
Quirky (+SpD, -SpD)

However it bugs me a bit that Serious and Bashful seem like they should be swapped, considering the respective themes in other Spe (e.g. Timid, Naive) and SpA (e.g. Mild, Quiet) boosting natures.
Eh, while Speed and Special Attack at first look like they have a theme, if you look at the others like Attack & Defense I think it's just a coincidence those turned out as they did. And even then, while Speed's Timid & Naive doesn't quite mesh with Hasty & Jolly and SpA's Rash doesn't match Modest, Mild, & Quiet.

I'm not sure how GF decided which emotion went to what Nature. I don't think it was just random cause I could somewhat see/justify certain Natures and how they would relate to the increase/decreased stat combo. So, with that said, let's see if maybe that could be the reason why the neutral Natures are organized as such:

Hardy (Attack): Hardy means you're very endurable... which makes it more sound like a Defense Nature. You know, let's go with that! Someone who is Hardy would likely be both able to give a punch and take a punch. But that's a double-edge sword, cause that just means they're not afraid to get hurt and over time during a fight that damage would build up and would start affecting how much pain they can give out. Or it could be going with the "strong but unskilled" logic where sure a Hardy Pokemon can hit hard but because it's so reckless it's not hitting as hard as it could be if it put some thought behind its swings.
Docile (Defense): Imagining sort of a pacifist ideology. If it had a choice it would choose not to fight back (doesn't mean it can't, it just sees no reason to fight when there are other peaceful options), meaning it would need to be physically durable at the very least incase someone does attack first. However, this physical durability it held back by it also possibly not bracing for attacks as it does not want to show hesitance in its convictions. Another way of looking at it could also be it being physically durable in some way (size, mass, shape, etc.) but it doesn't want to be moved from where it is so the potential durability is hindered with it taking hits it doesn't need.
Serious (Speed): Someone who is serious gets to the point of things with little to no sidetracking. I'm here, there's the goal, here's the straight line to the goal. Of course, this tunnel vision is also a weakness as it leaves no room for adapting when the situation isn't as straightforward. Your so focused following the straight line to the goal, you don't realize there's a metaphoric valley between you and it that requires some creative thinking to quickly get across that your serious mind just isn't made to consider so you take up taking even longer as doing things the long/hard way is the most clear way (but not the most efficient).
Bashful (Special Attack): Someone's that bashful would likely keep their distance in a fight, but that same bashfulness may make them hesitant to even attack. Similar to Hardy it sounds like it could be used for one of the defensive stats, but I think its Special Attack because Bashful doesn't just mean shy, but it also means not wanting to draw attention. You know who else doesn't like drawing attention? Snipers. Hunters. Assassins. Of course one of those being bashful isn't good, if not just a ridiculous image, cause they may either feel sympathy for who they're attacking or worried attacking would draw attention.
Quirky (Special Defense): Gonna start out with the decrease reasoning first, someone that's quirky is more likely to subject themselves to strange things if only to just see what happens. But in doing so they build up a resistance to the strangeness thus overall neutralizing the effect of the strangeness upon themselves. I'm imagining like a mad scientist who uses himself as a test subject for his strange radiation experiments only to become resistant to them over time thus can take stronger doses that would be otherwise bad for someone who isn't resistant.

I don’t see why would Fairy resists Bug to begin with, and even with actual reasons, Bug is having an already bad offensive match-up.
In popular culture Fairies are often shown to essentially control, own and use bugs as humans would do with other animals. Not the greatest justification, but Faeries are a melding pot of classical and modern day fairy lore so you get strange things such as this and yet also that fairy are weak to cold iron.

Maybe this is me being a bit petty or my logic working backwards, but something about Ice's type match ups bother me, namely a resistance it lacks, a weakness it has, and a SE Match-up I kind of question.
A thing about Ice is that I think GF is mostly thinking about the every day kind of ice you see, pretty much ice cubes or the sheet of ice over a lake/pond. Of course ice is much more complicated then that, like Regice and Avalugg certainly should be operating on different element principles then Vanilluxe and Cryogonal. But that's probably something more of an Ability or Move to alter in the Pokemon World than the base Type Chart. Not to mention all Pokemon Types are likely running on some kind of different level of energy than their real world counterparts. However cold ice can get and its structure solidify, fire can increase to equally as hot needed to melt it & rocks can become harder, gain more mass, or have a unique ice-breaking structure to smash it.

We've discussed difficulty to death, but honestly, an AI with as simple instructions as "Hit the thing in front of you with the strongest move you have against it" would immediately provide a massive improvement.
Yeah, the Alpha Pokemon AI in Arceus: Legends just LOVE to do that with their wide covering moveset.

SOMETHING A BIT DIFFERENT:
So a recent discussion went on in the BDSP thread about differing opinions on Mythical Pokemon in-game that are locked behind having to own another game. The discussion got a bit heated so DHR-107 called it cause it honestly wasn't the thread to discuss it on. But before I read that post I had written out some of my own responses and opinions. Not wanting it to go to waste, I figure I'll post it here instead where it more fits. Don't worry, while I'm firmly on the side of "don't like locking Mythicals behind needing to have other games" I try not to get heated and instead present my views as detailed as possible as well as giving reasonable alternatives. Since it's a very long post I'm hiding it in a spoiler tag:

Wow, people in this thread unironically defending Arceus being locked behind a PLA save because "past distributions were worse". You are the reason GameFreak never learns.
A practice thats been in the business for well over 2 decades? Yeah im shocked GF even caught up to that point
This, honestly. Save bonuses have been around for a while now. My first experience was getting some extra items in Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World on Wii for having a Game Cube Memory Card with a save file of the original Tales of Symphonia on it plugged into the system.
Well first, responding to Nokocchi, it has been discussed before that due to the Pokemon games allowing you to transfer Pokemon up from previous gens, things are a bit different concerning Pokemon when they do something like introduce a new mechanic or, in this case, implement a new event distribution which affects how the games are played.

Mechanic wise, let's take the super forms, specifically Mega Evolution. They've designed completely new Pokemon forms for it, made even more Mega Evos in the remake, had them carried over to the next gen... and then they decided to not use them except on special occasions.
"Well other games constantly switch up mechanics, like Mario and Zelda". Yes, many Mario and Zelda games do have a central mechanic they focus on which exist in that one game. But that's the thing, each game is isolated from one another; you can't bring a Mario from Galaxy into Odyssey or a Link from a Link Between Worlds into Breath of the Wild.
However, as I said, with Pokemon you're able to bring up one form a past gen into the new gen. So they introduced a new mechanic that radically changed how some Pokemon played, usually for the better, so when they decide to end it not only does that design go away but also rips away a valuable tool for that Pokemon's playstyle.
Some could say Z-Moves and Dynamax are in the same boat, but at least with those they were only around for one gen and they didn't make new designs for Pokemon. Unfortunately they didn't learn their lesson with Megas and did make new designs for the Gigantamax. At least Mega Evos have a chance of coming back in some form as they're just super power-ups, but they'll have a hard time finding reasons for ever bringing back the Gmax forms unless they severely shrink them down (which essentially would just make them Mega Evos with a different name... though then again that's what they did for the Primal Reversions and Battle Bond Greninja).

So, what about this new event distribution where they're locking Mythicals behind other Pokemon games?
Well, first off, this is a radical change from previously where the Mythicals were distributed usually via a free method. Connecting to the internet, having to go to a store to get a code card, Arceus forbid the freakin' newsletter. While yes those themselves had certain limitations, you weren't asked to just so happen to own another $60 game to get a Pokemon that previously would have just been an event giveaway.
"Well you don't get the game to get the Pokemon, you get the game because you want it; the Mythical is just a bonus". Very true, but from GF's perspective it's an excuse not having to do any additional event distributions for past Mythicals which they had to do in prior gens. Now, in GF's eyes, they only need to do distributions for at least the new Mythicals (because I'm pretty sure you'll have a problem if they locked a new Mythical behind having to own another game, right? And, if you do, why is this different for a past Mythical?). It's easy for many of us to overlook it as we likely have participated in enough events we have all the Mythicals by now, but for newcomers (especially younger players) this is actually a bigger hurdle then just having internet connection or going down to the closest game store; especially those who don't have disposable income. And, before you say it, look, some kids just may not have friends they can coordinate with so that they can swap around games to have save files for.
"Other games have done it". And what did those games unlock? Just bonus equipment or party member you can only use in that game? A secret boss battle or story campaign that, since it was locked behind owning another game, is completely separate from the main story? Certainly neat, but even if the game it unlocks something in will unlock something in a future title it won't be the same stuff. Meanwhile, in Pokemon, that Mythical can be transferred up to newer games making it alone a more valuable unlockable. And, since GF may also see this as having done an event distribution for that Pokemon, who knows when the next chance to get that Mythical may be, maybe not for the next couple of generations. Yes, theoretically as long as those games exist, especially in digital form, you can save up to get them later to not only experience the game but get those bonus unlocks for those Mythicals. But that's a batch of loops to jump through when they could have just distributed the Mythical online.
OR, they can have the other game unlock, but then at a certain time or maybe even at the very end of that game's cycle just do an event that unlocks that Pokemon for everyone. Those how had the required game just got to have it as an early bonus for having both required games.

OR, instead of locking much wanted Mythicals behind this paywall, make it another special Pokemon like a Shiny Legendary or a Pokemon with a special move or Hidden Ability.
Another suggestion: If you're just gonna have the Mythical in the game how about start demoting Mythicals to simple Legendary status. In one game they're a unlockable, but then in the next game they're included in the next Legendary Hunt with all the other Legendaries. Why not have Mew, Jirachi, Deoxys, and Keldeo (and if Legends count, all the Sinnoh Mythicals) join the others in Scarlet & Violet's Legendary Hunt (could even make them version exclusives)?

You know what? Past distributions were worse, but not in the sense that they were necessarily bad- rather, that this one is great! Instead of being locked to a specific timeframe where if you miss it you're screwed, as long as you have the necessary games, you have infinite access to Arceus moving forward, and it's not even Shiny locked!
Timeframe: Yes, in this way it feels like these Pokemon will always be available... but if you really think about it not really. Think about this: what if there is a jump to the next gen console? Now, if someone who wants the Switch game unlocks cause they weren't playing then, needs to potentially add the purchase of a previous gen console to get them if they don't have the console. Which doesn't sound bad now because everyone has a Switch, but how long till it does? And once again not everyone has the disposable income to buy a new console outright, some may need to trade in their old console to get the new one. So now they need to hold off getting the new console and possibly new gen to be able to get the money needed to get the save files to get the unlocks, and very likely each day they need to wait the value of the previous console they're playing goes down meaning they would have to pay more then they would have originally to get the new console with a trade-in.
Time-based does suck especially since its artificially enforced and there's no reason not to keep the distribution always available (and some could be easily spoofed, especially the Gen IV ones), though they're also done during the height of the focus on that gen so everyone who is playing the game at that time has a higher chance of getting it no matter their financial situation.

And so what if this means you need to have completed two different games to get this thing- it's the literal god of the Pokémon world, what do you want them to do, just hand it to you on a silver platter?
Given On A Silver Platter: Um, the reason some of us are upset about this change is BECAUSE they've usually given us Mythicals on a silver platter. When before it was "Oh, I want that Mythical, better go online/to my local game store" now it's "Oh. I want that Mythical, wait, I need to buy an entire game to just get it?".
Let's take me for example. I don't want to buy Let's Go, and I don't want to buy BDSP. Now in SwSh I lost access to Gigantamax Pikachu & Eevee, but that was alright as they later gave them out. But since I don't want BDSP that now means I can't get Darkrai in Legends. However if I for some reason decide to buy BDSP, while I'll be able to get the Jirachi and Arceus, I won't be able to get the Mew (which is a bit rarer to get I notice) cause I don't own Let's Go (which itself had ways of getting Mew so having BDSP offering a Mew for having Let's Go feels a bit redundant). And if this trend continues what Mythical Pokemon would I be missing out on in Scarlet & Violet because I didn't want to get BDSP?

Interacting with multiple games to get certain Pokémon in certain games has always, always, always been a thing in this franchise. Version exclusives are this at its most basic. Dual slot mode in Gen 4 was absolutely necessary for Pokédex completion back in the day. Wanted a Surfing Pikachu back then and missed the Yellow Forest event for the Pokéwalker? Better have Battle Revolution! Wanted Lugia and Ho-Oh in Gen 3? Colosseum and XD were must-haves for this purpose. You had to not only buy Pokémon Ranger to get Manaphy way back when, but if it was a used copy, you better hope the previous owner didn't get one, because it was one Manaphy Egg per copy, not per save file! And then you got the save file bonuses we've been getting so far.
Version Exclusives: Mythicals aren't version exclusive. At most Legendaries are but with games now doing Legendary Hunts plus players replaying the game to get multiples (especially with the Switch having multiple profiles) plus them doing some events which gives out the other version Legendaries this isn't that big of an issue when compared to Mythicals that are traditionally only given out via events.

Dual Slots: Didn't offer Mythicals. It offered Pokemon you could get in those GBA games just saving the hassle of transferring them up.

Surfing Pikachu: It's only a Pikachu with Surf, which then could become a Raichu with Surf. While neat still doesn't quite equal up to a Mythical status. Plus they now like to give out Surfing and Flying Pikachu whenever they have an event surrounding the electric mouse mascot.

Lugia & Ho-Oh: Don't forget at the time they had the timed event to get them in Emerald and FRLG. This was also around that awkward time when, due to the GB being incompatible with the GBA, they couldn't do the normal transfer method so really had to find all sort of methods to give out the Gen I and especially Gen II Pokemon, both com mons and Legendaries. And finally when HGSS came out this was no longer an issue and hasn't been... until now with the closing of the 3DS eShop meaning now forming a cutoff at the Gen VI & VII games (gee GF, thanks for removing a direct method to transfer Pokemon up within the game and instead making it an app, the damage your short sightedness causes never ceases).

Manaphy: Alright, that one you have a point with, though at the time it was an exception that proved the rule. Doesn't make it any better, but it was an isolated thing. And yeah, even then the one per cart thing was REALLY stupid and was never done again. At the very least the other Ranger titles also always offered a Manaphy so it was at least a consistent exception (sorta like how Meltan and Melmetal are exclusive to GO) and Manaphy was also a timed event for BDSP. Oh, and now you can just get a Manaphy in Legends: Arceus. So it took a while, but at least Manaphy is no longer an issue as it gone the way of Deoxys and Keldeo by becoming a widely available Mythical.

Gigantamax Pikachu and Eevee in SwSh. Mew and Jirachi in BDSP. Darkrai and Shaymin in Legends: Arceus. But this, easily the best one of the bunch, the only one that isn't Shiny-locked, this is where y'all draw the line and start complaining? They didn't have to implement the Azure Flute event at all. We are not entitled to it. They could have easily deemed the Arceus we get in Legends: Arceus to be enough for us and left it at that, but they didn't, and now people are complaining because this previous completely inaccessible event isn't even more accessible than they saw fit to make it? I'm sorry, but that comes off as entitled to me and it doesn't sit well with me at all. I for one am happy that we got the event at all.
I'll give you that for Arceus, since its widely available in Legends, isn't that big of a deal. But what about those who don't want Let's Go but would have liked that BDSP Mew? What about those who didn't want BDSP but now can't get Legend's Darkrai? Two Pokemon which previously had just been an event distribution now locked away in a game they own because GF wants them to also buy another game which they don't want. And I've included alternatives around this: Have an event at the end of that game's cycle where they unlock all the game locked Pokemon, even if its only for a limited amount of time, so those who own the game at the moment can at the very least get them. But they didn't, and I doubt they're waiting for the end of the gen.

I do not want this to become the future of Mythical event distributions because, sure, they're now longer available, but the requirement has changed to "do it within this time limit of a few weeks" to "buy another $60 game", and I feel the latter one is more exclusive.

If you could get absolutely everything out of the copy of the game you bought all by yourself with no outside help whatsoever, then what would even be the point of linking together with friends to trade?
So they can battle each other? Also this wasn't an argument about version exclusives, it was about locking Mythicals behind a $60 paywall.

Some people are willing to go that extra mile, and some aren't, and that's OK, because the first group is now in a position where they can help the second group out so they don't totally miss out. People reach out for the help, arrange some trades, maybe even make new friends in the process.
Except you only get one Mythical unless you're willing to replay the game over and over to get extra. And you're really only going to do that for friends you already know or are feeling extra charitable and look through Pokemon fan forums and reddit for a request board for those Pokemon.

Also, if GF really cared about the trading process, they would have the actual GTS in the game instead of mitigated to HOME.

Nobody is forcing anybody to pay extra for the thing, because nobody is forcing anybody to get the thing. It's seriously not a big deal if someone doesn't get Arceus, or Mew, or whatever. Arceus and Mew and all those mythicals do not matter. They are extras. Bonuses. Non-essential. You don't need them.
If it's not a big deal, then why are you defending a predatory practice? I'm just asking to keep Mythicals free and distributed to as wide an audience as possible.

This post has been kinda hostile, so I want close it by saying that if you're getting this upset over whether or not someone can obtain a virtual monster, you should reexamine what Pokemon means to you, because it doesn't seem healthy.
Geez, this argument got heated quickly.

I'm not sure if this would have been targeted at me had I been part of the discussion, though since it's targeted at someone who had the same views I'll give my take:

Nowadays Pokemon is a game I play to relieve stress, escape to a fantasy world where even a little kid can become the most strongest person ever (granted via control by an unseen force making all the decisions, though then again you're also supposed to put yourself in the kids position, going back to simpler times when the only thing you had to care about was hanging with friends, playing games, and taking down the local gang). Once could say the "end goal" for a Pokemon game doesn't matter as we all know we become Champion, so its a game more about the journey, forming a team of elemental monsters whether planned or just using what you get, and making that team the best it can be (which isn't that difficult with the current difficulty but I digress).

Alright, so that's what Pokemon means to me. You may notice at no point I talked about event distribution theology, cause that has NOTHING to do with each other. Come now, you're saying someone who thinks as wide an audience as possible should be able to get a fun Pokemon without having to own a game they don't want is unhealthy? Look, I get we live in late stage capitalism, but relax:

but you all need to remember that GameFreak can do whatever they want with any of their content.
AND as a paying customer I have the right to complain about these choices if I don't agree with them and see a possible bad outcome if GF decides for this to be the ONLY* method to distribute the older event Pokemon.

* Actually, let me quickly mention that, if they had normal Event Distributions via internet/code for Mythicals along with this, I would be fine with this. It would be an "okay, for this gen these older Mythicals were internet/code events and these older mythicals were unlock bonuses". And then next gen and future gens they keep mixing it up so all Mythicals would have a share as being an internet/code distribution and unlock bonus. But right there is the problem, GF is lazy, and its a business, and so if they see players are willingly letting the ONLY do unlock bonus events then they'll stop doing the internet/code distributions because why bother? A fun bonus for the players? Pfft, whoever heard of a children's video game series doing anything out of the kindness of their heart?
 

AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Community Leader
My two cents: Maybe they felt Basculegion's lore didn't make sense with how they setup the Red & Blue Basculin relation. If Red & Blue both existed in Husui, they would be fighting all the time each other for territory. This already splits the population in half. Now we gotta take into account how many Basculin are killed by the rival color which lowers the number of available Basculin even further. And then if they both "share" a breeding ground that means you got two rival groups trying to beat the other up the river, there being little cooperation even among Basculin of the same color as they're all too busy trying to outswim a rival color Basculin ahead and/or behind them. OR, it could just be that Red & Blue Basculin do not have a perilous journey to their breeding grounds like White-Stripe does, hence they don't need (or have the souls needed) to have a Basculegion evolution.

Basculegion can only exist in a Basculin population that works together. White-Stripe has no time for in-fighting like with Red & Blue, their breeding grounds up a river is dangerous and kills many of them. They need EVERY SINGLE individual that can make it up to the breeding ground, hence why the souls of the dead ones keep hanging on to give the living ones a boost with some evolving to Basculegion to contain all the souls. But you don't get possessed by souls who died a violent and meaningless death (for the individual soul as it never got to breed to continue its lineage) without their being residual anger, luckily its always aimed at would-be predators to assure the overall survival of the Basculin species.

Now, the question is, would White-Stripe still be gentle if introduced to bodies of water with populations of Red & Blue? And if it does remain gentle, how would Red & Blue react? It's a different colored Basculin, but it's posing no threat and when pressured give up so not much hostility is needed if any. Would they even be able to think of them being some kind of neutral party, not part of their school but are allowed to travel through their territories. Speaking of territories, would White even recognize there being territories or, since it views all Basculin as one, not understand thus act there is no boundary line (which can then go back to Red and Blue letting White be as it sees no territory hence isn't a danger of taking it). And then we throw Basculegion into this mess.
I'll be very blunt, I'm sorry but I feel like this is not a well written way to try to excuse the whole white striped thing. Even if the idea is supposed to be "they fight with eachother less so they dies less in battle and more in the travel upriver", it just really falls flat because its not like Red and Blue don't have large schools to travel upriver just because they fight eachother. Basculin's dex entries mention how it is aggressive to the point of dominating an entire lake's ecosystem, clearing out nearly every other species that isn't itself and Crawdaunt. This does not sound like the kind of species that would struggle to have numbers to survive just because they're fighting another school. It's never been implied that Basculin fighting one another makes it harder for them to survive so I sincerely doubt that the reason why white Stripe exists is because "there's less fighting so more fish survive to die upstream" when Basculin struggling to survive because of one another has never been aluded to before

As for the whole "how does White act near other Basculin and vice versa", I'll admit that it is something interesting to think about but also kind of makes not having Red/Blue in Legends kind of worse imo lol. Not only would it have been interesting to have a species with different overworld behaviour depending on its form, but also if we are to assume White is a neutral party, they'd have a perfect excuse to respectively make Adaman/Irida/Kamado use Blue/Red/White Basculins as paralels to how their clans interact
 
If it's not a big deal, then why are you defending a predatory practice? I'm just asking to keep Mythicals free and distributed to as wide an audience as possible.
Because expanding the playspace is my absolute favorite thing for a game to do, and getting the Azure Flute in one game allowing you to get the Azure Flute in another game that takes place in the future of the first game is an example of that.

Also because I think framing the situation as "I have to pay $60 for a Pokemon" instead of "I have to pay $60 for a whole fucking game with a duplicate Pokemon as a bonus" is unbelievably stupid, and that it kept getting repeated was frustrating. Yes, duplicate. If you only have BDSP, you wouldn't be able to catch Arceus yourself, just like you wouldn't be able to catch any other trade- or transfer-exclusive Pokemon. If you have BDSP and Legends, if you catch Arceus in Legends, you can get another one in BDSP. Imagine if there was a similar event in ORAS, where if you caught a Gogoat in XY, some NPC would give you a Gogoat in ORAS. Would you call that paying [however much new 3DS games cost] for a Gogoat? No, that would be dumb.

And fuck off with that hockey video. You keep using it as a cheap cop-out, and it applies to you even more than me. Is only game character. Why you heff be mad?
 
but I digress
If you ever decide you want to adopt a catchphrase this is definitely it
As for the whole "how does White act near other Basculin and vice versa", I'll admit that it is something interesting to think about but also kind of makes not having Red/Blue in Legends kind of worse imo lol. Not only would it have been interesting to have a species with different overworld behaviour depending on its form, but also if we are to assume White is a neutral party, they'd have a perfect excuse to respectively make Adaman/Irida/Kamado use Blue/Red/White Basculins as paralels to how their clans interact
As much as I like any idea that expands on lore in a non-essential way that feels like a genuine player discovery, my immediate reaction to the idea of more complex Basculin behaviour is please god no because they already have the unholy trinity of PLA catch mechanics (difficult to spot, quick to flee, and found in water where you can't effectively sneak and their already-small hitboxes are mostly blocked)
 

AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Community Leader
As much as I like any idea that expands on lore in a non-essential way that feels like a genuine player discovery, my immediate reaction to the idea of more complex Basculin behaviour is please god no because they already have the unholy trinity of PLA catch mechanics (difficult to spot, quick to flee, and found in water where you can't effectively sneak and their already-small hitboxes are mostly blocked)
do agree that PLA catching in the wzater sucks (I prob should make a post about that here someday lol, its been specially annoying for Remoraid), but for clearance my suggestion for basculin wouldn't really make how the while one works more complicated. I was thinking something like just having Red and Blu in the game as aggresive species while White is chill (Maybe do something like having Red Schools in Icelands, White Schools in Highlands, Blue Schools in Mirelands; and then in Fieldlands and Coastlands you have schools that are mostly Red or Blue but have a few white individuals or someth like that)

I feel I'm deviating a but from the thread's topic so I won't expand on this much further, just wanted to explain that by more complex overworld mechanics I didn't really mean making white any harder to get (In fact if Red/Blue were in the game, were aggressive and could still evolve into Legion, getting them would be easier than how Basculin is in legends rn because Red and Blue would chase you instead of running away)
 
Extra Extra: Local man discovers cool move was axed from video game 2 and a half years after release

You'd think that I would've noticed by now, but I only just learned that Punishment was a victim of Movexit. Is it just me, or did this really not receive much buzz at the time? Now, Punishment was never used super widely. The only Pokémon to get the attack in random battles are Ho-oh and Primeape... in Gen IV. However, it did see occasional teambuilt competitive use too, occasionally on Vullaby in LC, and on Scarf Weavile or Primeape sets too. After its introduction in Gen IV, it kept being distributed to a wide number of really interesting Pokémon who could have made great use of it in Gen VIII, such as Infernape, Weavile, Mandibuzz, Tsareena, Miltank, both Kantonian and Alolan Persian, and maybe even Slaking or a support Wigglytuff in doubles.

For those unfamiliar, Punishment is the uno reverse card version of Power Trip or Stored Power -- its base power uses the same formula as those attacks do, where it's based on the number of stat boosts a Pokémon has. However, where Power Trip becomes more powerful the more stat boosts the user has, Punishment becomes more powerful the more stat boosts the target has. Not only that, but it has a pretty cool base power of 60 by default compared with Power Trip's 20, so targeting something that has used, for example, Shell Smash once, this attack is 180 base power. It does cap at 200 base power though, one stat boost more than a Shell Smash.

It's not hard to imagine why this move would be an amazing presence in Gen VIII, and that is as a counter to Dynamax. Especially in doubles, while one opposing Pokémon is stupidly bulky thanks to being dynamaxed, you could launch a Punishment at the second Pokémon on the opponent's field that just received a Max Knuckle boost, dealing a significant chunk of damage. Dynamax would have increased the viability of Punishment dramatically, and I can't help but think that this move was cut for that reason. They went out of their way to make dynamax immune to as many potential checks and counters as possible; Dynamax Pokémon can't be encored, taunted, or tormented, for example. But I think Punishment would have been an incredibly organic, unbroken counterplay to Dynamax that wouldn't even be featured on every team.

Does it make some sense? I guess, like clearly the whole purpose of Dynamax is to be this incredibly broken supercharged thing that's "hype" or something. But you know what's even hyper than a random Hawlucha spamming Max Airstream and Max Knuckle? That's right, Gigantamax. No Gmax moves boost stats, instead having signature, unique effects, a lot of which have quite a lot of potential. Lapras is the most famous, setting up an Aurora Veil outside of Hail, meanwhile my personal favourite is Copperajah-Gmax's signature hazard. Punishment being counterplay to spamming stat boosts with Dmax would have raised the stock of these Gmax moves quite a lot, and diversified the VGC metagame. It also would still be a nice thing to have in Singles, in particular I could see Punishment being in the movepool of most Pokémon who can learn it in SwSh Random Battles, where Dynamax is still legal.

So the little thing that annoys me is that they wanted Dynamax to be so broken that they literally removed an attack that would have been reasonable, not broken counterplay to it, which also happens to have fairly low distribution, primarily on Pokémon who don't see competitive use in the first place. This decision makes no sense to me, and for me is the greatest loss of Movexit in the context of Gen VIII play.
 
But I think Punishment would have been an incredibly organic, unbroken counterplay to Dynamax that wouldn't even be featured on every team.
It's worth mentioning that Punishment did get a replacement, with in fact a pretty decent distribution too.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Burning_Jealousy_(move)

It works better than Punishment in some cases (as a burn is way more punishing than just taking Dark Type damage, expecially as Dark isnt really a great offensive typing other than for Knock Off shenenigans), expecially if the Dynamaxer pokemon only accrued like 1-2 boosts at best.
It's also a pretty funny anti-Zacian tech... I mean... except the part people won't use it anyway cause you have more interesting ways to deal with Dynamax than just "hit them slightly harder", generally via parting shot and similar.

In fact I would actually disagree with your thought: even if Punishment was a thing, it probably wouldn't be run, because the best way to deal with Dynamax is in fact make your opponent waste it. Eerie Impulse, Parting Shot, Intimidate Cycling, are actually way more punishing and easier to use than Punishment due to not having any reliance on opponent typing, your stats or the presence of buffs.
Plus, ofc, good old Trick Switcheroo and similar mechanics.
 
Zacian and Zamazenta's typings annoy me because they're extremely unintuitive.

So firstly, despite being a duo, they have different types. Well, alright, surely they don't need to share a type just because they're a duo? Mmm, except pretty much every other duo does just that. Ho-oh and Lugia share the Flying type, Mew and Mewtwo share the Psychic type, Phione and Manaphy share the Water-type, Latias and Latias are both Dragon and Psychic. Cresselia and Darkrai don't, but they buck the trends in other ways too. Sure, Zacian and Zamazenta don't need to be the same type, but when they're explicitly identified as being connected (siblings) you'd just expect them to.

But the actual types they've been assigned are strange. Why is Zacian Fairy while Zamazenta is Fighting? They both strike me as Fairy and Fighting-types; I actually went through ages thinking both were Fairy/Fighting (we haven't had one of those yet, it'd be nice). Fairy feels like something connected to them being magical, legendary beings - so why isn't Zamazenta Fairy too? If both were Fairy/Fighting it'd make them actually feel like counterparts. Again, they don't have to share a type but if they're identified as being related then it makes sense to link them.

Secondly, both wolves gain Steel because they... uh, gain weapons in their Hero forms. Fine. Zacian becomes Fairy/Steel while Zamazenta becomes Fighting/Steel. Both good typings already utilised. I guess they didn't want the basic forms to overshadow the hero forms so made them single-typed. But again, if the idea was to make them distinct in terms of their battling abilities (which they already are) why not make Zacian Fairy/Fighting and Zamazenta Fighting/Steel?

Just... idk. I don't much like either Pokemon but I feel like it'd be a little warmer toward them if they didn't feel quite as much like wasted potential as they do.
 
Zacian and Zamazenta's typings annoy me because they're extremely unintuitive.

So firstly, despite being a duo, they have different types. Well, alright, surely they don't need to share a type just because they're a duo? Mmm, except pretty much every other duo does just that. Ho-oh and Lugia share the Flying type, Mew and Mewtwo share the Psychic type, Phione and Manaphy share the Water-type, Latias and Latias are both Dragon and Psychic. Cresselia and Darkrai don't, but they buck the trends in other ways too. Sure, Zacian and Zamazenta don't need to be the same type, but when they're explicitly identified as being connected (siblings) you'd just expect them to.

But the actual types they've been assigned are strange. Why is Zacian Fairy while Zamazenta is Fighting? They both strike me as Fairy and Fighting-types; I actually went through ages thinking both were Fairy/Fighting (we haven't had one of those yet, it'd be nice). Fairy feels like something connected to them being magical, legendary beings - so why isn't Zamazenta Fairy too? If both were Fairy/Fighting it'd make them actually feel like counterparts. Again, they don't have to share a type but if they're identified as being related then it makes sense to link them.

Secondly, both wolves gain Steel because they... uh, gain weapons in their Hero forms. Fine. Zacian becomes Fairy/Steel while Zamazenta becomes Fighting/Steel. Both good typings already utilised. I guess they didn't want the basic forms to overshadow the hero forms so made them single-typed. But again, if the idea was to make them distinct in terms of their battling abilities (which they already are) why not make Zacian Fairy/Fighting and Zamazenta Fighting/Steel?

Just... idk. I don't much like either Pokemon but I feel like it'd be a little warmer toward them if they didn't feel quite as much like wasted potential as they do.
Fun fact, in the last story battle you have with Hop, if he has Zamazenta, it has Play Rough. If he has Zacian, it has Close Combat. Zacian's CC is just stronger than Zamazenta's would be, too, thanks to the Intrepid Sword Attack boost and its naturally massive Attack.
 
I feel they made Zamazenta Fighting-type primarily for Body Press, but then for w/e reason they decided not to give it to Zenta, despite, yanno, it being entirely outclassed without it.

As for Zacian, maybe they figured it was more elegant than Zenta, so Fairy it is. Plustheywantedittobecompletelybroken
 
Plustheywantedittobecompletelybroken
tbfh assuming it kept the same stats, moveset and ability, I think Zacian would have managed to be a competitively viable pokemon even if it was idk, Bug/Steel.
The typing *helps* but what carries it the most is just the ludicrous combo of attack, speed and ability on top of Sword Dance.
You saw yourself how in Ubers even after they banned Zacian-C people were like... welp unlucky, we just use Zacian, and losing the Steel type didn't do anything and regular Zacian managed to join Z-C in AG shortly after.

Funnily I think Zacian is another case of bad representative of "fairy type is broken", because the Pokemon itself is insanely strong, just happens to be fairy type, but it'd be insanely strong even without it.
In fact I think if it was Ghost type it'd have actually been actually stronger vgc-wise due to immunity to Fake Out and Shadow Tag*
 
Last edited:
Zacian's attack stats should have been evenly split like Zamazenta's defense stats were. 150 Attack with a free +1 might be a little better balanced. Sure, it would get a mostly (if not entirely) useless +20 to its Special Attack, but it's just gross the way it is now.
 
Extra Extra: Local man discovers cool move was axed from video game 2 and a half years after release

You'd think that I would've noticed by now, but I only just learned that Punishment was a victim of Movexit. Is it just me, or did this really not receive much buzz at the time? Now, Punishment was never used super widely. The only Pokémon to get the attack in random battles are Ho-oh and Primeape... in Gen IV. However, it did see occasional teambuilt competitive use too, occasionally on Vullaby in LC, and on Scarf Weavile or Primeape sets too. After its introduction in Gen IV, it kept being distributed to a wide number of really interesting Pokémon who could have made great use of it in Gen VIII, such as Infernape, Weavile, Mandibuzz, Tsareena, Miltank, both Kantonian and Alolan Persian, and maybe even Slaking or a support Wigglytuff in doubles.

For those unfamiliar, Punishment is the uno reverse card version of Power Trip or Stored Power -- its base power uses the same formula as those attacks do, where it's based on the number of stat boosts a Pokémon has. However, where Power Trip becomes more powerful the more stat boosts the user has, Punishment becomes more powerful the more stat boosts the target has. Not only that, but it has a pretty cool base power of 60 by default compared with Power Trip's 20, so targeting something that has used, for example, Shell Smash once, this attack is 180 base power. It does cap at 200 base power though, one stat boost more than a Shell Smash.

It's not hard to imagine why this move would be an amazing presence in Gen VIII, and that is as a counter to Dynamax. Especially in doubles, while one opposing Pokémon is stupidly bulky thanks to being dynamaxed, you could launch a Punishment at the second Pokémon on the opponent's field that just received a Max Knuckle boost, dealing a significant chunk of damage. Dynamax would have increased the viability of Punishment dramatically, and I can't help but think that this move was cut for that reason. They went out of their way to make dynamax immune to as many potential checks and counters as possible; Dynamax Pokémon can't be encored, taunted, or tormented, for example. But I think Punishment would have been an incredibly organic, unbroken counterplay to Dynamax that wouldn't even be featured on every team.

Does it make some sense? I guess, like clearly the whole purpose of Dynamax is to be this incredibly broken supercharged thing that's "hype" or something. But you know what's even hyper than a random Hawlucha spamming Max Airstream and Max Knuckle? That's right, Gigantamax. No Gmax moves boost stats, instead having signature, unique effects, a lot of which have quite a lot of potential. Lapras is the most famous, setting up an Aurora Veil outside of Hail, meanwhile my personal favourite is Copperajah-Gmax's signature hazard. Punishment being counterplay to spamming stat boosts with Dmax would have raised the stock of these Gmax moves quite a lot, and diversified the VGC metagame. It also would still be a nice thing to have in Singles, in particular I could see Punishment being in the movepool of most Pokémon who can learn it in SwSh Random Battles, where Dynamax is still legal.

So the little thing that annoys me is that they wanted Dynamax to be so broken that they literally removed an attack that would have been reasonable, not broken counterplay to it, which also happens to have fairly low distribution, primarily on Pokémon who don't see competitive use in the first place. This decision makes no sense to me, and for me is the greatest loss of Movexit in the context of Gen VIII play.
In general, I really don't like the majority of moves that were dexited. You brought up Punishment, but some other moves got dexited that I think is truly a shame, specifically Signal Beam, Heart Swap, and Tail Glow. Signal Beam may not have been widely used competitvely, but it was a very good moves for Electric types in Single Player since it offers coverage against Grass types without HP. That alone made Ampharos a very good choice for an Electric type in HGSS and BW2 thanks to Signal Beam and Fire Punch, which gave it better coverage than other Electric types like Jolteon or Magnetmite without investment. Heart Swap and Tail Glow are also extremely strange choices, but it seems those were an oversights because they were elusive moves only on two to three Pokémon and all of which were dexited when SwSh launched. But even when Pokemon ( Magearna and Xurkitree ) were added via DLC, they didn't still add them to their movepools. Just because a move is not used does not it mean that it is useless- Heart Swap was a great move to punish stat boosting, and can be extremely punishing against Baton Pass. Tail Glow was an extremely devastating set up move if Pokemon are given the chance. It just shows how lacking the developers understand the values of moves, and low usage not does mean bad.

Zacian and Zamazenta's typings annoy me because they're extremely unintuitive.

So firstly, despite being a duo, they have different types. Well, alright, surely they don't need to share a type just because they're a duo? Mmm, except pretty much every other duo does just that. Ho-oh and Lugia share the Flying type, Mew and Mewtwo share the Psychic type, Phione and Manaphy share the Water-type, Latias and Latias are both Dragon and Psychic. Cresselia and Darkrai don't, but they buck the trends in other ways too. Sure, Zacian and Zamazenta don't need to be the same type, but when they're explicitly identified as being connected (siblings) you'd just expect them to.

But the actual types they've been assigned are strange. Why is Zacian Fairy while Zamazenta is Fighting? They both strike me as Fairy and Fighting-types; I actually went through ages thinking both were Fairy/Fighting (we haven't had one of those yet, it'd be nice). Fairy feels like something connected to them being magical, legendary beings - so why isn't Zamazenta Fairy too? If both were Fairy/Fighting it'd make them actually feel like counterparts. Again, they don't have to share a type but if they're identified as being related then it makes sense to link them.
Zacian's typing is probably the reference to Morgan le Fey, the enchantress who gave King Arthur his sword, and name translates to Morgan the Fairy, which explains the Fairy typing, Zacian's gender, and Sword Motif. Zamazenta is based on the Shield of King Arthur, hence the shield motiff.
 
Last edited:
I'm disappointed that many of the Pokemon that would thrive under the stat system of Legends: Arceus are not in the game. Due to how damage is calculated, attack stats barely matter, which means Pokemon like Serperior with high speed and defenses but meh or outright bad offenses are absurdly powerful under the Legends forumla.

While there is stuff like that like Uxie, Pachirisu, and Lopunny there are far more glass cannon Pokemon in the game, and having good offenses barely effects how much damage you do and bad defenses just means you get one-shot since stuff will very often survive no matter how high your attack is.
 

AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Community Leader
I feel like the one connection Zacian has to Fairy is that Pokémon ties Fairy type to the moon, and with Zacian being a wolf and whatnot, the moon has some thematic relevance. But like, for that same logic Zamazenta should also have been Fairy lol

If anything I think Fairy/Steel Zamazenta and Fighting/Steel Zacian wpuld make more sense as both Sacred and Secret sword are Fighting moves and Fairy/Steel is a much better defensive type. As it stands it really just feels like Zacian is Fairy because its clearly the devs favourite and because "its the girl one"
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

No need to worry!
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Slightly off topic but how are you even supposed to pronounce Zacian anyways? I've heard Zay-shee-an, Zah-see-an, and even Zack-ee-an (pretty sure that one is wrong).
I think it's meant to be Zah-cyan.
Official material such as the anime and one of the Sword and Shield trailers suggests it's pronounced Zah-shee-an. I can't link any of the anime eps but I can certainly link the old June 2019 Direct trailer where the pronunciation is audible at the end.

 
One of the issues is that the Devs clearly think that a Defense boost and an Attack boost are equal in value. But they're not, and that warps things. First, you have to boost both defenses but generally only one attack stat, because +6 def can just get smacked by Focus Blast or whatever. But also because offense matters more than defense. So they make Zacien and Zamazenta and one is AG twice while the other is B-/D in Ubers. Swords Dance and Nasty Plot are great, Iron Defense is useless. It's one of those things that's been blatantly obvious for a while, and they've never fixed it. The only dual-boosting move is Cosmic Power, which has no distribution, and making it a TR didn't help. Just, why? This is basic.
 
One of the issues is that the Devs clearly think that a Defense boost and an Attack boost are equal in value. But they're not, and that warps things. First, you have to boost both defenses but generally only one attack stat, because +6 def can just get smacked by Focus Blast or whatever. But also because offense matters more than defense. So they make Zacien and Zamazenta and one is AG twice while the other is B-/D in Ubers. Swords Dance and Nasty Plot are great, Iron Defense is useless. It's one of those things that's been blatantly obvious for a while, and they've never fixed it. The only dual-boosting move is Cosmic Power, which has no distribution, and making it a TR didn't help. Just, why? This is basic.
Iron Defense has seen some use... on Body Press sets where it's also effectively an attack boost.
 
Iron Defense has seen some use... on Body Press sets where it's also effectively an attack boost.
It as well as Acid Armor also see good use in combination with Calm Mind and usually Stored Power. Reuniclus in particular used to run that set with Recover, becoming so bulky that if it had Toxic Spike support, it could 1v1 Dark-types despite not having a move capable of hitting them.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Zacian/Zamazenta are probably one of the joint biggest failures of balancing Pokemon has ever seen. I honestly believe that considering the visible troubled development scars of SWSH elsewhere that it's a sincere possibility that the dog pair just straight up were not playtested. Zacian-C is so disgustingly hyperoptimized in every conceivable aspect, and as for Zamazenta I REFUSE to believe that it not having Body Press isn't an oversight that Game Freak stubbornly didn't fix during SWSH's lifespan due to being resistant to mid-gen balance changes of that breed.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 2, Guests: 4)

Top