(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Karxrida]

So... Why does Bind AND Wrap exist?

I was going to say it was a flavor thing (like how some abilities are identical outside of name) since Wrap seems to be more for snake-like Pokémon, but a quick glance at the learnsets for both moves doesn't show that much consistently. Notably, a few obvious snake Pokémon like Onix and Zygarde get Bind but not Wrap.

So fuck if I know.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

If y'all ever thought that Gens 8 and 9 were out of pocket with the movepool additions, you're absolutely correct.

Now, strap in fellas, this is some real shit.

As of Gen 8, Wobbuffet got a new move.

Spoiler

It's Splash.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

If y'all ever thought that Gens 8 and 9 were out of pocket with the movepool additions, you're absolutely correct.

Now, strap in fellas, this is some real shit.
View attachment 723427

As of Gen 8, Wobbuffet got a new move.

Spoiler

It's Splash.

I double checked this to see for myself, and I have been bamboozled. Sort of. The truth is much dumber.

Wobbuffet did actually get a new move in Gen 8: Amnesia. Far as I can tell, this is the first new move it's gotten access to since Gen 3 gave it Splash, Charm, and Encore. The wild part is that, while in previous generations Wobb's level-up movepool was just a clean four moves, it learns all of Wynaut's moves at level 1 now, in addition to learning its standard four moves both at level 1 and through level-up, and also learning Amnesia at level 1. So its level-up movepool went from this

to this

disgusting.

So then I checked out Wynaut, since I was curious where exactly Amnesia came into all this. And instead of Wynaut's usual movepool of Splash, Charm, and Encore at level 1 and then Wobbuffet's four moves at level 15 right before it evolves, it's this

what the fuck is this shit

 

[R_N]

I double checked this to see for myself, and I have been bamboozled. Sort of. The truth is much dumber.

Wobbuffet did actually get a new move in Gen 8: Amnesia. Far as I can tell, this is the first new move it's gotten access to since Gen 3 gave it Splash, Charm, and Encore. The wild part is that, while in previous generations Wobb's level-up movepool was just a clean four moves, it learns all of Wynaut's moves at level 1 now, in addition to learning its standard four moves both at level 1 and through level-up, and also learning Amnesia at level 1. So its level-up movepool went from this

View attachment 723432

to this

View attachment 723431

disgusting.

So then I checked out Wynaut, since I was curious where exactly Amnesia came into all this. And instead of Wynaut's usual movepool of Splash, Charm, and Encore at level 1 and then Wobbuffet's four moves at level 15 right before it evolves, it's this

View attachment 723434

what the fuck is this shit

What a weird oversight. The other babies didn't seem to go through this, usually just reusing the prior gen as a base and altering the levels or adding/removing a move.

 

[Yung Dramps]

It has just hit me that with Legends Z-A being set after XY, Sinnoh is the only revisited old region so far whose human cast didn't get any redesigns. I mean yeah, the ancestors exist, but those aren't the same. Setting Legends Arceus in the past was 100% the correct choice btw but man did some of the modern guys really need ORAS-level makeovers:

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

It has just hit me that with Legends Z-A being set after XY, Sinnoh is the only revisited old region so far whose human cast didn't get any redesigns. I mean yeah, the ancestors exist, but those aren't the same. Setting Legends Arceus in the past was 100% the correct choice btw but man did some of the modern guys really need ORAS-level makeovers:

View attachment 723554View attachment 723555View attachment 723553

View attachment 723557

Sinnoh saved the franchise again by taking the bullet of having Masuda ruin its only shot of a remake to give us the Legends series.

We can only hope one day, Platinum will get a remake.

 

[pokemon4eva]

I forgot how bad fishing mechanics were in RSE. For Good and Super Rod you might have to do a timing minigame multiple times, for the latter it might go up to SIX "Oh, a bite!". And it isn't even dependant on the species, even a Magikarp can make you pull six times if RNG says so! Guh, it's so annoying, and it's no wonder later games just reduced it to one pull. Heck, FRLG went "faithful remake" mode and just made fish pulls automatic like RBY and GSC lol.

Also, reminder that fishing multiple times is how you're supposed to find Feebas in RSE. Have fun!

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I forgot how bad fishing mechanics were in RSE. For Good and Super Rod you might have to do a timing minigame multiple times, for the latter it might go up to SIX "Oh, a bite!". And it isn't even dependant on the species, even a Magikarp can make you pull six times if RNG says so! Guh, it's so annoying, and it's no wonder later games just reduced it to one pull. Heck, FRLG went "faithful remake" mode and just made fish pulls automatic like RBY and GSC lol.

Also, reminder that fishing multiple times is how you're supposed to find Feebas in RSE. Have fun!

Oh man, yes. I hate fishing in RSE so much that when I finally did catch a Feebas for the first time I bred it like crazy and traded at least one of the offspring to every other game I possessed so that I'd always have a spare available, utterly resolved never to fish one up again. And I still have not done so to this day.

 

[Kurona]

Well, of those, you would actually have had the best shot of developing attachment to Genesect since they gave it away at level 15 for the start of BW2

Which was a fun thing that I passed on but they should do again some time. It was cool of BDSP to give access to an early Jirachi & Mew, too, for that matter; I even used jirachi this time

Pokemon Go could even help facilitate this if not for the stupid "you can't put legendary et al Pokemon into games that have already had them" thing.

Sort of late to this discussion, but Celebi is one of my favourite Pokemon because they added it to VC Crystal’s postgame and you could do all of Kanto with it; and doing that really made me form a connection. I’ve often wished they’d do similar things for other mythicals I find interesting, like Shaymin and Diancie.

I think they are at least on the right track recently, though. Mythicals have almost entirely been replaced by DLC, where they’re just the main legendaries like a box cover guy. In the last 2 gens the only “true” mythical in this sense is Zarude, in that it’s just dropped on you through mystery gift with no narrative. I think they’ve basically solved this at this point

 

[Sonikku A]

There's a missed context for Gen 2-7 where Mythicals are explicitly made for the anime movies (Lugia while not being a Mythical technically applies). We know Sugimori directly designed Manaphy in an interview

Given the movies typically don't align with setting of the games, this unfortunately means there isn't really a place for the mythical to be in the games without heavy map edits, or make them hyper isolated. Or as they mostly do Gen 5 on, awkwardly gifted events

This funny enough makes Genesect doubly annoying: it's not natural, and lends itself really well to Internet Explorer man. But instead it's subtext almost for a crappy movie

Because of that, Mythicals by nature are designed at the last minute...for these gens

Gen 8 by that point the anime started diverging extremely, and OLM/Others no longer represent em (Zarude is literally the last "True" Mythical). But GF still wants timed exclusivity events + merch, so Mythicals now shift to having more overt lore in the form of DLC packs
Cue Urshifu, Calyrex, and Pecharunt

*Regileki/drago are the only DLC legendaries in Gen 8 OLM covered, and notably are sparser for lore in game
*Horizons spams Terapagos, though notably it was hinted in game before DLC


And then there's Enamorus getting nothing for in game lore AND animation rep :V

So sadly Mythicals kind of are truly defined as "the merch legendaries" in practice

 

[nitchenkightmares]

There's ways to keep something obscure and mysterious while actually having meaningful game design attached to it. Blueberry Academy Meloetta, LA Manaphy and Meltan's introduction in Go are literally exactly this! There's a very clear difference between solving a cryptic overworld puzzle and just being handed an item to go to a place to get a guy. Arceus in DPPt didn't just suck because it was event-gated, it sucked because the whole encounter comes down to climbing a flight of stairs and doing the same stupid lottery you've been doing since the Game Boy but now against Literal Canon God. Genuinely so pathetic that it would've been preferable to treat Arceus like the Original Dragon, an unobtainable creature that is only ever alluded to in old mythological texts

Also also, arceus' theme in diamond and pearl smells worse than a Skunktank. Hitomi Sato was on a roll making the tracks for sinnoh, and somehow flopped on making the God Battle theme.
Mythical pokemon have to be the most kusoge pokemon group ever.

 

[Sonikku A]

Also also, arceus' theme in diamond and pearl smells worse than a Skunktank. Hitomi Sato was on a roll making the tracks for sinnoh, and somehow flopped on making the God Battle theme.
Mythical pokemon have to be the most kusoge pokemon group ever.

It was Masuda that made the Arceus Battle theme

Honestly his Gen 4 battle themes were extremely mid outside Lake Trio

 

[Zettabyte]

I dont think this is news to anyone, but dear lord, the GSC level curve can be SO annoying for casual playthrus.

it just feels like GF was so scared to make Pokemon higher level. For example, on Route 35, the route past north of Goldenrod, the 4th gym, has wild Pokemon barely pushing level 10, around the 12 level range. But for RBY? assuming you arent sequence breaking and are doing the gyms in 'order' as listed by your trainer card, the Pokemon before you even reach Celadon City on route 7 are 17 at LEAST, typically being closer to 20. Why was GF so afraid to make Pokemon stronger? Did they just want you to struggle with getting levels?

There are a few ways to circumvent this, I guess? maybe they fully expected you to have a full Pokegear to have rematches with trainers, which. The extra money & exp really doesnt hurt in these games, but it leads to a LOT of backtracking.
I guess it checks out with all the daily events that they kinda want you to take advantage of (daily berry trees, kurts balls, the lottery, and even like. Getting to the Game Corner early in the morning before the good slot machine is taken), but it just makes GSC feel more like a slog, esp if you just wanna speed through the story with a specific team.

It also feels like they were trying to make Johtos levels scale with Kanto, which is just. baffling to me???
Not only is Kanto already pretty plateaued in levels since you can fight any gym leader in any order (minus Blue), I feel like they REALLY shouldnt have taken Kantos fights into consideration for the main story in Johto? It's the post game! they shouldnt have hindered a lot of the main games level curve purely because of Kanto.

The level curve isnt too bad if you do what I mentioned earlier, and take advantage of every rematch you get, fight every wild Pokemon, and don't skip any trainers, but. unless you are OBSESSIVELY grinding, the level spike between the trainers before Victory Road and the actual Elite Four will cause you to grind for a WHILE.
With the Pokemon on Victory Road only being 35 MAX, grinding up to a comfortable 40-45 WILL take forever, and I really doubt your entire team will be within that range before entering the Elite Four. I have never reached the Elite Four in GSC and didn't have to grind for a long while before standing a chance against them, especially Lance.

I guess I should share my tip that I use when I just want to blast through GSC in a day, just use 5 Pokemon. It kinda sucks not having a full team, but hey! You always get to keep an HM slave on you (Assuming you dont use it for actual battles), and the small pool of EXP available in Johto gets distributed a bit nicer among 5 Pokemon vs a full team of 6.
I guess it can also be considered an 'easy mode', but. I don't particularly find grinding to fight a boss to be hard, just time consuming.

Thank you for coming to my TeddiursaTalk

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I dont think this is news to anyone, but dear lord, the GSC level curve can be SO annoying for casual playthrus.

it just feels like GF was so scared to make Pokemon higher level. For example, on Route 35, the route past north of Goldenrod, the 4th gym, has wild Pokemon barely pushing level 10, around the 12 level range. But for RBY? assuming you arent sequence breaking and are doing the gyms in 'order' as listed by your trainer card, the Pokemon before you even reach Celadon City on route 7 are 17 at LEAST, typically being closer to 20. Why was GF so afraid to make Pokemon stronger? Did they just want you to struggle with getting levels?

There are a few ways to circumvent this, I guess? maybe they fully expected you to have a full Pokegear to have rematches with trainers, which. The extra money & exp really doesnt hurt in these games, but it leads to a LOT of backtracking.
I guess it checks out with all the daily events that they kinda want you to take advantage of (daily berry trees, kurts balls, the lottery, and even like. Getting to the Game Corner early in the morning before the good slot machine is taken), but it just makes GSC feel more like a slog, esp if you just wanna play through the story with a specific team.

It also feels like they were trying to make Johtos levels fit in with Kanto, which is just. baffling to me???
Not only is Kanto already pretty plateaued in levels since you can fight any gym leader in any order (minus Blue), I feel like they REALLY shouldnt have taken Kantos fights into consideration for the main story in Johto? It's the post game! they shouldnt have hindered a lot of the main games level curve purely on Kanto.

The level curve isnt too bad if you do what I mentioned earlier, and take advantage of every rematch you get, fight every wild Pokemon, and don't skip any trainers, but. unless you are OBSESSIVELY grinding, the level spike between the trainers before Victory Road and the actual Elite Four will cause you to grind for a WHILE.
With the Pokemon on Victory Road only being 35 MAX, grinding up to a comfortable 40-45 WILL take forever, and I really doubt your entire team will be within that range before entering the Elite Four. I have never reached the Elite Four in GSC and didn't have to grind for a long while before standing a chance against them, especially Lance.

I guess I should share my tip that I use when I just want to blast through GSC in a day, just use 5 Pokemon. It kinda sucks not having a full team, but hey! You always get to keep an HM slave on you (Assuming you dont use it for actual battles), and the small pool of EXP available in Johto gets distrabuted a bit nicer among 5 Pokemon vs a full team of 6.
I guess it can also be considered an 'easy mode', but. I don't particularly find grinding to fight a boss to be hard, just time consuming.

Thank you for coming to my TeddiursaTalk

There's a reason why the GSC In-Game Tier List is one of the last open threads in that section, and no, it's not Gengar.

It's actually recommended that people use four team members so they don't have to grind too much in that game.

And while I'm at it, what an awful regional dex. As soon as you decide on a Normal and a Water-type, you're really strapped for options besides the obvious Geodude, Mareep, Abra core.

 

[Zettabyte]

It's actually recommended that people use four team members so they don't have to grind too much in that game.

Dear lord, I had never actually looked into it much online. Here I was thinking I was clever for my 5 mon teams, nope!

And while I'm at it, what an awful regional dex. As soon as you decide on a Normal and a Water-type, you're really strapped for options

It's pretty atrocious. The exclusives always made me scratch my head, the lack of many diverse Pokemon in Gold/Silver, and Crystal just having some of the weirdest choices for exclusions never fails to baffle me. What do you mean I have to trade from Gold/Silver to get a Mareep??

GSC is just barely close from being an amazing Pokemon game. If the levels were fixed, the regional dex was more robust, less of a focus on Kanto (I'm still salty about losing a lot of the beta locations & Pokemon we missed out on purely so that they could fit Kanto on the cart), and if the story actually had named characters and had a few more scenes before the Radio Tower raid, I think it would be considered an all time classic for the series, but naw.

I still love it for its vibe & graphics at least, so theres always that lol

 

[Sonikku A]

GSC just lucked out in riding on Kanto's Pokemania coattails + being technically aligned for GBC graphically, so it was always "a classic" reception wise. The rose tinted narrative of "it was gonna be their last game" further artificially boosts importance

Ain't I a stinker?

 

[CynicalGiant]

(I'm still salty about losing a lot of the beta locations & Pokemon we missed out on purely so that they could fit Kanto on the cart),

The thing I'm salty about regarding Gen 2 is that even in the remakes they didn't fix a lot of the problems with GSC. Sure HGSS looks nice and added following pokemon but they were way more faithful than they should've been. The level curve is still really low in the wild, not very many trainers and even the ones there are have really low levels, the roster of available pokemon is still not great, they still don't put mons in locations that would make sense for them to be.

Slugma not being in the same place as Magmar and Koffing has always baffled me. In the remakes you can get a Slugma from an egg if you look up the exact code phrase, but that's still so weird. The amount of people who thought Skarmory and Slugma/Magcargo were Gen 3 pokemon is really a testament to just how strange and chaotic Gen 2 was. Hell I've even encountered people who thought Gligar was Gen 4.

Crystal also made some pretty funny decisions regarding mons, afaik they still didn't really fix the availability of several new mons you really couldn't get until post the league, but they put Phanpy and Teddiursa as rare time specific encounters really early for some reason? I like Ursaring and Donphan but I always thought that was very strange lmao.

Definitely a game hard carried by its aesthetics and vibe.

 

[Hugin]

Crystal also made some pretty funny decisions regarding mons, afaik they still didn't really fix the availability of several new mons you really couldn't get until post the league, but they put Phanpy and Teddiursa as rare time specific encounters really early for some reason? I like Ursaring and Donphan but I always thought that was very strange lmao.

So it's basically:
You can get Phanpy/Teddiursa as version exclusives right before the 8th gym, not at night, with a 10% or better chance OR
You can get them pre-Falkner in Crystal if you specifically search one tiny area, at the right time of day, with a 5% chance

They're meant to be a hidden reward for repeat playthroughs/buying a guide/being ultra-diligent. And I'm fine with that, it fits the pokemon design ethos. I just wish it had carried over to the OTHER lategame Gen II mons. A 5% chance of early Houndour at night on Route 31 would go a long way.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

A 5% chance of early Houndour at night on Route 31 would go a long way.

Houndour not being a common night encounter around Goldenrod is a wasted opportunity.

The same applies to a lot of Gen 2 mons. There's a crippling design flaw in the wild encounter tables. We could chalk them up to them being a product of their time, but the remakes had no excuse to double down on them.

It is a relatively easy fix, but this being a problem at all is just poor foresight.

The thing I'm salty about regarding Gen 2 is that even in the remakes they didn't fix a lot of the problems with GSC. Sure HGSS looks nice and added following pokemon but they were way more faithful than they should've been. The level curve is still really low in the wild, not very many trainers and even the ones there are have really low levels, the roster of available pokemon is still not great, they still don't put mons in locations that would make sense for them to be.

Slugma not being in the same place as Magmar and Koffing has always baffled me. In the remakes you can get a Slugma from an egg if you look up the exact code phrase, but that's still so weird. The amount of people who thought Skarmory and Slugma/Magcargo were Gen 3 pokemon is really a testament to just how strange and chaotic Gen 2 was. Hell I've even encountered people who thought Gligar was Gen 4.

Crystal also made some pretty funny decisions regarding mons, afaik they still didn't really fix the availability of several new mons you really couldn't get until post the league, but they put Phanpy and Teddiursa as rare time specific encounters really early for some reason? I like Ursaring and Donphan but I always thought that was very strange lmao.

Definitely a game hard carried by its aesthetics and vibe.

Nothing but FACTS in this post.

And I'll twist the knife even further, even though this is a take better suited to the Unpopular Opinions thread.

HGSS are the best remakes in the franchise. No, not because they're as great as the community paints them, but because the bar is THAT low.

They do a great job at polish and presentation, I'd even say QoL to some extent (Running Shoes toggle is blessed). But it does nothing to fix the actual flaws of the original games. The only fixes on that front are the natural fixes they had because they were in the 4th gen instead of the 2nd. (Bug-Types have STAB options, Physical/Special Split, slightly better level-up movepools...)

It's a shame.

 

[Kurona]

While cases could be made for the Dusk, Shiny etc stones (cases I would argue against or at least compromise on "they should be buyable in postgame"), I think at the very least the Ice Stone should be buyable at any store that sells evolution stones.

In practically every game, the 'core' 4 elementary evolution stones from RBY are the only ones that are buyable in a store if at all -- Fire, Water, Leaf and Thunder. And while to a degree I get that logic, I don't see any reason Ice shouldn't be included. It has a similar elementary property compared to how 'special', rare or specific some like Moon and Dawn can be, and the Pokémon that evolve with it are plentiful enough and hardly rare, special or overpowered (well, one is; but when it was introduced it was first catchable on the very route you find an Ice Stone!)

But most importantly in my opinion -- Glaceon now evolves by it. By leaving the Ice Stone out of Evolutionary Stone stores, Glaceon specifically of Eevee's 5 stone evolutions is the only one that you can't easily purchase and has artificial rarity. Between both that and its shared properties with the first 4 stones, the Ice Stone really does feel like it's meant to fit into them; but just is not given that final quality needed to fit in. It feels like the designers are holding onto that tradition of those 4 being the only ones buyable, when there's no reason to hold onto it and a 5th now exists that fits perfectly in their group.


Edit: Hang on -- I'm just finding out that the Ice Stone was in fact added to LGPE's Celadon Department Store inventory!! And while all evolution items including the 'rarer' stones are all buyable in PLA's trading post, the Ice Stone is specifically grouped with the first 4 ahead of even Moon and Sun! So why did ScarVi revert on that??

 

[Sonikku A]

Seen the direct. LZA still does the dumb "we're animating chars like they're voice acted but aren't" issue some scenes

 

[Worldie]

Seen the direct. LZA still does the dumb "we're animating chars like they're voice acted but aren't" issue some scenes

We're never getting Voice acting in "normal" Pokemon games, we have to accept it

As long as they don't give us another concert scene....

 

[R_N]

They should really do the zelda thing of having vague vocalizatoins at the very least

 

[ant4456]

They don't want to do voice acting because with how many languages they make the game for, casting, directing, localizing, training, quality control, bug testing, and more would have to clash with script changes, one of the fastest turn-around-times in game development and no matter the result people would be complaining around the same amount anyway.

It's not even really a money thing, it's that it'd actually put a decent amount of stress on the development of the game itself.

 

[pika pal]

They don't want to do voice acting because with how many languages they make the game for, casting, directing, localizing, training, quality control, bug testing, and more would have to clash with script changes, one of the fastest turn-around-times in game development and no matter the result people would be complaining around the same amount anyway.

It's not even really a money thing, it's that it'd actually put a decent amount of stress on the development of the game itself.

To be "fair" in this case, the conflict with the turn-around-times on the game development would probably be another reason people advocate against the latter: the games' short dev cycles are considered a factor for many of its technical shortcomings or overly simplistic design decisions, so the reply from consumers would be "all the more reason to make them take more time per game" and amp up the criticism/complaining in hopes TPC/GF listens.

I do think the Zelda style vocalizations or even a Fire Emblem style "stock clips for text boxes" approach would still go a long way compared to the dead silence the game has now. Having a sample voice to associate in the head goes a long way to filling in the blanks or enriching a character's image