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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

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Deoxymoron said:
Did you expect a murderous coffin to be one of the most solid walls in UU? Did you expect a tiny pufferfish to be capable of handling most physical attacks in the lower tiers?

Maybe it's a magic sword

But srsly, good point. I just liked the unique typing.
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Sarcophagi are basically made to defend the mummy from outside and the result was a Pokemon that looks incredibly bulky and is...
Pufferfish are explicitly known for their defense mechanism and nothing else. It makes sense to be a good deterrent to physical attackers.

Swords slice things. That's their thing. Their could be an argument made for parrying being a good defense, but swords are known for attacking.

Anyway, any predictions on the distribution of Freeze Dry? I see Jynx and Kyurem possibly benifitting the most if they get it due to water resist/immunity, but wishing they had a way to hit waters a lot harder.
 
Oddly enough, Azumarill seems to be quite a defensive behemoth whit his new Water/Fairy type, which gives it resistances to Fighting, Dark, Fire, Bug, Water and Ice, immunities to Dragon and Grass(he has Sap Sipper, Huge Power is pointless on defensive sets) and weakness only to Electric and Poison. He also has a decent bulk(100/80/80) and defensive movepool, whit Scald, Encore, Perish Song and Refresh. The new move Draining Kiss(Fairy type Drain Punch) could also help whit the lacking of recovery move, if Azumarill is able to learn it. Of course CB Azumarill is still viable, and even more whit these new resistances and STAB.
 
Azumarill's best bet in OU, even with fairy typing, is likely going to be Huge Power boosted Aqua Jet. It may have a nice list of resistances and decent bulk, but with a whopping 50 base Attack / Sp. Atk, it's going to be scared out by the likes of Heatran (who will hit him neutrally with STAB Flash Cannon) and Nidoking (who knows you won't use Aqua Jet, and will KO you with Sludge Wave). It is also too slow to use encore effectively (base 50 speed, tied with Metagross), and plays like a worse Politoed without Drizzle.

Huge Power Aqua Jet, however, will be able to check the likes of (Mega)Blaziken, Heatran, Infernape, Tyranitar, Terrakion and Excadrill, along with stuff like Gengar, Alakazam and weakened Thundurus, Tornadus, Garchomp and Genesect. In particular, it resists Blaziken's STAB moves and laughs at non-STAB Stone Edge or Shadow Claw with its decent bulk.

With Sap Sipper, it is the ultimate Breloom counter with its new Fighting resist and grass / spore immunity, but I would rather have a pokemon that can Aqua Jet the crap out of the above mons, especially in rain.
 
Well uh, 100/80/80 defenses are pretty horrible for a defensive Pokemon this meta, especially for a Pokemon with no reliable recovery. Hell, those defenses are only decent even for an attacker- for comparison, Salamence has only 5 less HP. And the next gen will probably bring even more power creep...

Also, Draining Kiss as recovery? I hope that's a joke:

0 Atk Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 98-116 (27.37 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 114-134 (34.44 - 40.48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 0 Atk Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 78-92 (23.56 - 27.79%) -- possible 4HKO
0 Atk Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-B: 96-114 (24.55 - 29.15%) -- possible 4HKO
0 Atk Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 49-58 (12.69 - 15.02%) -- possible 7HKO
0 Atk Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 98-116 (25.38 - 30.05%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 49-58 (15.12 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 98-116 (30.24 - 35.8%) -- 37.48% chance to 3HKO

^^Yeah, assuming 75 BP like Giga Drain, that's what you're doing to current premier physical dragons. And that's when it's *super effective*, because it's hitting off an uninvested base 50 attack. Good luck with that. Meanwhile, most of these Dragons can just 2HKO after a boost (or simply wait until Azumarill is worn down, because you know, it has no recovery).

Plus, outside of Breloom, Sap Sipper doesn't help it check any other currently OU grass type anyway. Venusaur just plows through even the most SpDef oriented Azumarill with STAB Sludge Bomb:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Azumarill: 530-624 (131.18 - 154.45%) -- guaranteed OHKO (I changed its typing to grass)

And Celebi fears nothing from it except being Encored into NP.

DPP Politoed is a fine comparison- in a significantly less offensive meta, Politoed (with slightly lower defense and slightly higher SpDef) had all those tools and a good typing, and yet was in NU.

Just play Azumarill to its strengths- it will be able to revenge many top-tier threats, and with its fairy typing, it will be able to check dragons too.
 
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Breloom itself is already hugely nerfed in Grass-types being immune to Spore, Azumarill does not need to run Sap Sipper. Agreeing with Icyman, Azumarill gives up any reliable offensive presence in running Sap Sipper and it's not like it will help against Venusaur any (or Victreebel) who hits you with now-SE STAB Sludge Bomb. Azumarill has better things to do, like slapping the shit out of Dragons. Here's a better question: Does anyone think a priority Fairy-type attack will exist?

EDIT: Wow, got crushed on that ninja post.
 
Hell, i think that the classic CB Azumarill will still be the best choice on many teams, but i posted defensive Azumarill because i think it could be a fun gimmick whit this new typing :P
 
ThePillsburyDoughBoy said:
All they revealed was a new design, nothing competitive like a ability/move/stat spread.
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True, yet at the same time the existence of an evolution means that it likely will have higher stats then its original appearance would have led us to believe.

While it might not be particularly good at being defensive (being a sword with No Guard suggests it being a very offensive pokemon), I think it could potentially be a good sweeper, assuming it gets some nice moves and a decent Speed stat. It could possibly end up being something like Lucario; a sweeper that relies on its good defensive typing and diverse movepool (the most valuable moves being its priority moves, which Honedge is confirmed to get in the form of Shadow Sneak) to tear apart teams. If it does get some decent defensive stats though, it could certainly be used as a defensive pokemon on teams. Though always getting hit by Fire Blasts might be annoying...
 
With the recent Ghost buff, Steel/Ghost just sort of loses it's defensive capabilities. It's now weak to Ground, Fire, and Ghost. Ground is already extremely common, and with Gen VI we're gonna see a lot more Ghost, and Fire types. Ghost because of it's buff, and Fire to check Fairies. Honedge and it's evo look pretty slow too. I'm gonna guess somewhere around base 60, maybe 70 if we're lucky. With it being a sword and all, having an offensive ability in the form of No Guard, and a very likely 3 stage Evo that would result in a high BST, the final Evo will be a very effective wallbreaker. Slap a scarf on there, and you have a good revenge killer. I think it's comparable to Machamp in UU, with a slow speed and high attack. I don't have high hopes for it in OU though.
EDIT:Just realized it has Swords Dance and Shadow Sneak. I guess it could be the new Scizor of this gen.
 
I apologize for this being slightly off the current trend in conversation, but I'd just like to note that with Serebii confirming that native Kalos (new) Pokemon will receive no MEvos, I have a strong feeling that at least some are going to be nearly on par with some MEvos in terms of overall stat distribution. Although no stats have been revealed for these new Pokemon, or even the revealed MEvos, I believe that this is something that may be implied.

(Been following for a little while now, for lack of posts because of school, and I am surprised that some of what was spoken of toward the beginning of this thread is repeatedly brought up...but I guess that must be because this is my first truly involved thread..."Smogon, never ending, ever evolving..." :p)

Haruno said:
They are indeed but only one mon in your party can have a (insert mon name here)onite thus limiting you to one megaevo per team.
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Can you source where you got your information? There was never a statement of being restricted to one MStone, just one MEvo...meaning multiple Pokemon that have the ability to MEvo can hold their respective MStones at once.

This was one of those things that was debated to death x pages ago.
 
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the24th said:
I apologize for this being slightly off the current trend in conversation, but I'd just like to note that with Serebii confirming that native Kalos (new) Pokemon will receive no MEvos, I have a strong feeling that at least some are going to be nearly on par with some MEvos in terms of overall stat distribution. Although no stats have been revealed for these new Pokemon, or even the revealed MEvos, I believe that this is something that may be implied.
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I don't think the lack of Kalos Mega-Evolution means that some Kalos Pokemon will have Mega-level stats, but rather, Gamefreak is just waiting to see what Kalos Pokemon will become popular enough to warrant a Mega-Evolution. Gamefreak said in that recent interview that Mega-Evolutions were being given out based on popularity and looks. That's why old fan favorites like the Gen 1 Starters, Mewtwo, Blaziken, etc have been getting them. Their goal with Mega-Evolutions is to revitalize old favorites and present them in a new light. They even said in the interview that, thanks to Mega-Evolution, they had a good excuse to give us the Gen 1 starters ingame. Otherwise, it would've been kind of random and not too special to receive such old Pokemon.

So I doubt that the general stat distributions of the Kalos Pokemon will differ from those of previous gens. We'll most likely once again get a few "uber-level" Pokemon, a few base 600 legends, a pseudo-legend, and a bunch of normal Pokemon with <=535 BST.
 
Rem said:
I don't think the lack of Kalos Mega-Evolution means that some Kalos Pokemon will have Mega-level stats, but rather, Gamefreak is just waiting to see what Kalos Pokemon will become popular enough to warrant a Mega-Evolution. Gamefreak said in that recent interview that Mega-Evolutions were being given out based on popularity and looks. That's why old fan favorites like the Gen 1 Starters, Mewtwo, Blaziken, etc have been getting them. Their goal with Mega-Evolutions is to revitalize old favorites and present them in a new light. They even said in the interview that, thanks to Mega-Evolution, they had a good excuse to give us the Gen 1 starters ingame. Otherwise, it would've been kind of random and not too special to receive such old Pokemon.

So I doubt that the general stat distributions of the Kalos Pokemon will differ from those of previous gens. We'll most likely once again get a few "uber-level" Pokemon, a few base 600 legends, a pseudo-legend, and a bunch of normal Pokemon with <=535 BST.
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Huh, ok cool, didn't know about that interview. But I guess I should have guessed. I also thought that it would be kind of an in-game story thing where because Kalos is where the MStones are found, maybe the native Pokemon were already exposed to such radia...(oops, Pokemon history theory :P) I mean energy that would be found in a MStone otherwise...but thank you for clarifying.
 
the24th said:
Huh, ok cool, didn't know about that interview. But I guess I should have guessed. I also thought that it would be kind of an in-game story thing where because Kalos is where the MStones are found, maybe the native Pokemon were already exposed to such radia...(oops, Pokemon history theory :p) I mean energy that would be found in a MStone otherwise...but thank you for clarifying.
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If they release a 3rd game (Z) as some are predicting based on the Norse mythology thing, that would be an ideal time to offer MEvos for Kalos pokemon and also be a hook to make people buy it.
 

Here's proof that Mega evolving happens at the start of the turn, not right before the pokemon attacks and regardless of the turn order.
-2:30 Slowbro uses Trick Room
-2:50 Ampharos Mega evolves
-Slowbro and Gogoat attack before Ampharos does
-Ampharos takes out Mega Blaziken with Thunder.
 
That's fantastic news for Mega Charizard, who can now change the weather regardless of whether or not Politoed or Tyranitar is Scarfed. ScarfTar can still OHKO with Stone Edge, but Politoed cannot OHKO with Hydro Pump, whereas it will most likely be OHKOed by Solarbeam depending on how much they increase Charizard's Special Attack once it Mega Evolves. Regardless, the theories that Scarf Politoed and Scarf Tyranitar would become more popular were only half right. This is also great for Mega Absol, since it won't have to wait until the end of the turn to get Magic Bounce (it's so damn SLOW!).
 
Mega Charizard will likely be paired up with Dugtrio, as it can easily dispatch the only weather inducer (Tyranitar) who can OHKO it. However, when the opponent switches as you mega-evolve, who gets their weather up?
 
Yuttt said:
Mega Charizard will likely be paired up with Dugtrio, as it can easily dispatch the only weather inducer (Tyranitar) who can OHKO it. However, when the opponent switches as you mega-evolve, who gets their weather up?
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That's the question. Which holds priority, mega-evolution or switches? I think weather is the only case where this significantly matters though. Hopefully GF sides with Charizard and mega-evolution goes after switches.
 
Rechi said:

Here's proof that Mega evolving happens at the start of the turn, not right before the pokemon attacks and regardless of the turn order.
-2:30 Slowbro uses Trick Room
-2:50 Ampharos Mega evolves
-Slowbro and Gogoat attack before Ampharos does
-Ampharos takes out Mega Blaziken with Thunder.
Click to expand...
Thanks, updated OP. That definitely gives MegaZard a buff.
 
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