Fairy resists Fighting too though...
Celebi would really love being resistant to Pursuit and neutral to U-Turn.
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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)
- Thread starter GCSChris
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Celebi would really love being resistant to Pursuit and neutral to U-Turn.
Ou haha lol i forgot that. Silly me.
Can we just discuss this Furfou pokemon, and how it's gonna be the physical Blissey of this generation. With it's new ability Fur Coat, it takes half damage from all physical attacks. As long as it gets a defense stat of over 60, and a decent hp stat (like 80 or something), Only banded dragons, and fighting pokemon can dent it (assuming it's normal type). If it were to get a decent typing, which I doubt it will, then it's gonna be UU or higher.
I think it really depends on whether or not it gets decent stats. If its Defense is anything decent (like in the 90's or 100 range), and a nice HP stat, then it does have a good chance of being a capable physical wall. That being said, it still would probably be outclassed by other physical walls like Skarmory or Landorus-T, who possess much better typings and have great moves to use (like Spikes and Stealth Rocks) that Furfou is unlikely to get. Not the mention the fact that it is basically a "gimmick" pokemon means that its stats probably aren't going to be that good. Fur Coat definitely gives it some potential, but Game Freak will have to be pretty generous with its stats and movepool to be noteworthy. Probably does have a good chance at being useful in the lower tiers, though.
Remember that "physical wall" doesn't necessarily mean "defensive behemoth that can take on anything". Pokémon such as Aggron or Cloyster (or, heck, Onix) are among the strongest physical defenders there is, yet their Sp.Def (and Speed, I suppose) make them less than favourable as all-out walls. Even Rhyperior is - technically - a defensive beast, yet a Water Gun or two will put him out of the match. Furfrou's capabilities as a wall is quite dependant on its Sp.Def, as well as a number of other factors. A good Defensive ability is a decent starting point, but it will in no way guarantee success.
Also keep in mind the size of the OU tier, and how it'll scale to be smaller and smaller relative to the pool of available Pokémon as time goes by. Unless there is a significant generational bias this time, the vast majority of Gen. VI OU (80%, +-10%) will consist of 'mons from previous generations. That leaves quite few idle slots for new Pokémon to shine in. You can possibly count them on your fingers. The vast majority of the Gen. VI 'mons will, by the laws of statistics, be unviable in OU.
Kudos for considering other tiers from the get-go, though. Even if it makes this rant pretty pointless.
Also keep in mind the size of the OU tier, and how it'll scale to be smaller and smaller relative to the pool of available Pokémon as time goes by. Unless there is a significant generational bias this time, the vast majority of Gen. VI OU (80%, +-10%) will consist of 'mons from previous generations. That leaves quite few idle slots for new Pokémon to shine in. You can possibly count them on your fingers. The vast majority of the Gen. VI 'mons will, by the laws of statistics, be unviable in OU.
Kudos for considering other tiers from the get-go, though. Even if it makes this rant pretty pointless.
Assuming 80/80 defenses, some calcs:
CB 252+ Kyurem-B Outrage vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 45.05 - 53.13%
CB 252+ Scizor U-Turn vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 21.56 - 25.53%
LO 252 Mamoswine Superpower vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 38.87 - 46.01%
LO +1 252 Gyarados Waterfall under rain vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 42.3 - 50%
LO 252+ Breloom Low Sweep vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 48.21 - 56.73%
Even assuming so mediocre stats, that's pretty bulky. Of course, unless it has a combination of phazing/hazards/recovery/higher stats it probably won't make OU, but...
CB 252+ Kyurem-B Outrage vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 45.05 - 53.13%
CB 252+ Scizor U-Turn vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 21.56 - 25.53%
LO 252 Mamoswine Superpower vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 38.87 - 46.01%
LO +1 252 Gyarados Waterfall under rain vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 42.3 - 50%
LO 252+ Breloom Low Sweep vs 252/252+ Furfrou: 48.21 - 56.73%
Even assuming so mediocre stats, that's pretty bulky. Of course, unless it has a combination of phazing/hazards/recovery/higher stats it probably won't make OU, but...
Instead of the Lake Trio, wouldn't it make sense to give Manaphy an extra fairy typing? Every gen has a "pixie" with base 100 stats across the board, so in that regard, Manaphy would make more sense. It'd get even scarier than it is now, water/fairy is a great typing.
Yeah I forgot about manaphy, does make more sense than the lake trio, good catch
EDIT: also guys, froffouf- whatever that thing is called, really looks like a pre-evo for something, if it has an evo that gets the same ability, then we have a really solid LC physical wall and OU physical wall
Celebi would be really good, it essentially trades a weakness to bug for a neutrality, a weakness to dark for a resistance, and it gains a dragon immunity. Its 4x weak to poison but who cares? In between a decently powered special fairy attack (lets be conservative and assume 80 BP) and earth power it will hit everything but skarmory/gengar (but shadow ball is neutral anyways) (?) for neutral or super effective damage. Add in recover and nasty plot with a SpD spread and rain teams will be walled, and everything will be swept.
I wouldn't say everything will get swept, and you have to incorporate the changes Gen 6 will bring. Rain teams still have the luxury of Tornadus who destroys Celebi, and it's still walled by Ferrothorn (which I think will be seeing even more usage with the introduction of Fairy). I can see Crobat getting a lot more usage as well, with all this Fairy stuff roaming around.
and now ferrothorn is now immune to spore as well, correct?? I'm really glad gengar is improving a bit, it would have been swept under the rug into lower OU or UU with all these changes... but its ghost moves and poison moves are getting a huge buff! Hooray! It's one of my favorites, and not much makes me happier than seeing its new uses. I wonder if sludge bomb will become viable though, because shadow ball and sludge bomb have pretty solid coverage now with poison hittign all the fairies. Special attackers like latios will be cast aside in favor of gengar! Tyranitar will be a huge issue if you run sludge bomb but it might be diminished thanks to fairies eating darks alive. Also it can be will-o-wisped. Go gengar! No more jirachis, skarmorys (skarmories??), or scizors ruining his day.
Gengar does get Sludge Wave, which is slightly stronger than Sludge Bomb, but I guess Sludge Bomb's increased Poison chance is better for breaking down walls.
And a lot of people don't know this, but all Pokemon names are spelled the same in plural form as they are in singular form. So whether it's one Skarmory, or several Skarmory, it's the same.
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Well a CB bullet punch still wrecks Gengar. But taking aside the details and priorities and stuff, Gengar is basically the new go to special attacker. Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast now has even better coverage, hitting the Steel/Psychics it couldn't before, like Jirachi and Bronzong. The only checks right now are Normal Special walls, such as the blobs, which both result in stalemates, Specially Defensive Meloetta, Specially Defensive Togekiss etc. Umbreon could be a viable check as well. I'm thinking Muk will get more usage as a check to fairies in general, and also checks Gengar quite well.
Everyone keeps saying muk muk muk. I like muk too, but that doesn't mean he'll skyrocket up to ou.
Mega Muk
I'm not expecting Muk to move up at all. I'm just saying it's a good check to Fairy pokemon, not named Gardevoir or Mawile, therefore getting more usage. It's a good replacement for Amoonguss if you don't want the grass typing, or even Tentacruel, if you don't mind giving up rapid spin.
Gengar will be great, but with Shadow Ball's low base power I could see it being checked fairly well by pokemon with neutrality to its attacks and general special bulk. Tentacruel, Meloetta, Snorlax, Vaporeon, Togekiss, SpD Rotom, SpD Heatran, etc, are all pokemon that can stomach a hit and strike back with decent power. Sure not all of them are OU, but so long as pokemon exist with their general build, Gengar will be kept in check.
If the council decides to suspect and ban SR next gen, our metagame will be so unrecognizable that completely new threats and checks would emerge. Just from the current SR-less ladder, SpD Dragonite could do a decent job. And this is true for all pokemon, not just Gengar. We really don't know what Gen 6 is going to look at all, and I'm excited to see how it shapes up.
If the council decides to suspect and ban SR next gen, our metagame will be so unrecognizable that completely new threats and checks would emerge. Just from the current SR-less ladder, SpD Dragonite could do a decent job. And this is true for all pokemon, not just Gengar. We really don't know what Gen 6 is going to look at all, and I'm excited to see how it shapes up.
Muk?? Toxicroak will get more usage for sure, HP ice/vacuum wave/sludge wave/np could be potent. Qwilfish and the nidos will come up to OU way before Muk does. I wonder if roserade will move back up to OU like in gen4. It can hit fairies decently hard and is now immune to spore- fuck breloom.
Here's something I wanted to bring up- who wants to predict stats for new mons?
Sylveon 65/60/60/130/110/95
Xerneas (assuming 680 like other cover legends): 120/90/100/150/120/100
Yveltal (typing is now somewhat unresisted: tyranitar, dedenne, bisharp) 120/150/100/120/100/90
Here's something I wanted to bring up- who wants to predict stats for new mons?
Sylveon 65/60/60/130/110/95
Xerneas (assuming 680 like other cover legends): 120/90/100/150/120/100
Yveltal (typing is now somewhat unresisted: tyranitar, dedenne, bisharp) 120/150/100/120/100/90
Those sound about right if you swap xerny's atk and speed, as most of the cover legendaries are stuck at the base 90 speed tier.
Plus your sylveon stats were way off, as he needed at least 95 Hp to keep realistic to the calcs from the battle we saw.
Well, to be fair, Muk is about one good ability away from being at least decent in OU. It plays like Snorlax with Priority but, for checking Fairy, there's not much reason to use it over [insert Steel-type here]. If you want Poison offense, Gengar, Nidoking, Roserade, Toxicroak, and Venusaur are all better choices. Even Drapion will likely be seeing use as a reliable Ghost check. If Fairy has a presence in RU/NU, Muk's gonna have fun, but there are too many high-powered moves it doesn't resist being flung around for it to play in OU.
Nidoking however...will probably still be UU.
iirc Sylveon's HP was already confirmed to be Base 95.
It also took a crit Life Orb Hydro Pump in Rain without blinking so that SpDef is definitely 130.
And Sylveon can OHKO Salamence with Moonblast which says its SpAtk has to be Base 110 (And that's if Moonblast has Base 90~120 power) because none of the leftover Eeeveelution stats (65 & 60) can come close to an OHKO with anything less than a 150 base power attack.
Just wanted to share a link to my favorite type chart, now that it's been updated for Gen VI: http://www.gamelogs.org/pokemon/
It lets you change it to the older type charts too, which is pretty cool.
It lets you change it to the older type charts too, which is pretty cool.
It has access to wish, like all eeveelutions, and superior coverage with moonblast + shadow ball. It could work.
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