oh i actually forgot about that. i guess a cool core would be bpass lopunny + gothitelle as this one is able to trap both landorus-t and slowbro and let lopunny be free to spam hjk/return
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Lopunny
- Thread starter Sergeant Spooky
- Start date
- Status
lando-t can just u-turn out, and if mega slowbro gets up enough calm minds, gothitelle will not be able to take it down.
p.s. nice username lol
i mean on the switch you bpass and send out gothitelle so the next turn will be landt/slowbro against gothi. you can tbolt mega slowbro or trick a regular one. run hp ice for land-t
If lando-t is scarfed, the strategy will fail, and considering that scarf is the most common set...
Slowbro is probably the only one you can trap succesfully, but if goth is not carrying specs, then it cannot 2HKO it
252+ SpA Gothitelle Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slowbro: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
If you are trying to trap lando-t, and you are holding choice specs, scarf lando-t will u-turn away.
If lando-t is not scarfed and goth is scarfed, then you win. But by holding scarf, you lose out on the ability to beat slowbro, and by holding specs, you lose out on the ability to beat lando-t, so basically you have to choose which one you want to trap more. If you want to trap lando-t, use scarf. If you want to trap slowbro, use specs.
Slowbro is probably the only one you can trap succesfully, but if goth is not carrying specs, then it cannot 2HKO it
252+ SpA Gothitelle Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slowbro: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
If you are trying to trap lando-t, and you are holding choice specs, scarf lando-t will u-turn away.
If lando-t is not scarfed and goth is scarfed, then you win. But by holding scarf, you lose out on the ability to beat slowbro, and by holding specs, you lose out on the ability to beat lando-t, so basically you have to choose which one you want to trap more. If you want to trap lando-t, use scarf. If you want to trap slowbro, use specs.
if lando-t is scarfed you don't have any problem since it is not a reliable switch-in to lopunny, if it is not you don't need scarf to beat it, 224-228 speed evs are good enough to creep lando-t and kill it with hp ice. And it will be difficult to see someone using a fully specially defensive slowbro as everything you want to be countered by it is physical.
imo crawdaunt is even better being an awesome pokemon at least in this meta (dunno how good it will be in oras tho) and hits things absurdly hard
Yeah, I really like Crawdaunt, it's one of my favourites but I give you one warning:
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 296-352 (92.7 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
The attack drop is passed.
weavile cant revengekill scarf land-t (or at least has a little chance with rocks up)
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 239-286 (74.6 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
regular one is much worse
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Landorus-T: 177-218 (46.3 - 57%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
ice punch has a good chance to ohko that though if rocks are up
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Landorus-T: 333-395 (87.1 - 103.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 161-192 (50.4 - 60.1%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
this is the real calc actually, however i think this is enough as lando really doesn't want to take an aqua jet, so it will switch out and accumulate damage with hazards and other stuff at the point that it can be either killed or sevetely hurted by aqua jet at the point that lopunny can easily revenge kill it with fake out
A revenge killer is a mon that can basically come in after someone has died, and revenge kill, so the calcs for Weavile's ice shard are wrong - weavile should be at +0 attack, not +1.
That was a silly mistake, sorry.
However, I still believe Weavile is a nice partner to Mega Lopunny, as it already is menacing right now.
The calculations are good even with -1, though.
Gotta be aware of strong priority like talonflame or breloom though, since both are weak to fighting (weavile 4x and lopunny 2x).
Calcs done with lopunny's stats and new typing
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lopunny: 492-582 (181.5 - 214.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 322-381 (114.5 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 107-126 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 75-88 (25.2 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 228-270 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 82-97 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 79.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 592-700 (210.6 - 249.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 195-229 (74.7 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
There aren't lots of mons that counter talonflame and breloom together though, the best one probably being rotom-w because it can will o wisp and neuter breloom.
Calcs done with lopunny's stats and new typing
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lopunny: 492-582 (181.5 - 214.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 322-381 (114.5 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 107-126 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 75-88 (25.2 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 228-270 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 82-97 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 79.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 592-700 (210.6 - 249.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 195-229 (74.7 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
There aren't lots of mons that counter talonflame and breloom together though, the best one probably being rotom-w because it can will o wisp and neuter breloom.
hello? maybe you don't know how baton pass works. landt comes in then gets off -1 atk on lopunny bpassing that into weavile's attack
If its a revenge killer it comes in after something has died. So it won't be getting a baton passed to it.
hello? maybe you don't know how to read? I clearly stated that a revenge killer comes in after something has died, and can OHKO it or force it out.
Not sure why I'm just now getting to this, but here I am.
Firstly, no one carries LO adamant physical KyuB, and if they do, they're using KyuB wrong. Regardless, the bulk is situational. It's a set you can run if your team has a way of dealing with Pokemon who like to set up early on, which most teams have, or should I say, should have.
The added bulk does allow her to live hits that can potentially pull surprise KOs.
Also, because of the invested bulk, that +1 Dnite doesnt OHKO mLop at full health
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 96 HP / 4 Def Lopunny: 231-273 (78.3 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So the ice punch, provided it has had multiscale broken, will ohko in return anyways. And if multiscal wasnt broken, then it doesn't matter it wouldn't KO either way.
I didn't say it was THE set to use, but if your team is prepared for Pokemon that set up, which if the team has a mLop, it should, then the added bit of bulk really ends up helping in the long run. As we saw with mLop living KyuBs outrage to win me the game.
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch / Healing Wish
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Power-Up-Punch
- Baton Pass
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Toxic
- Protect
Ok, so I think these are basically the three viable Lopunny sets. The first one is standard all out attacker, Fake Out is completely necessary for chip damage and beating stuff from Thundurus to Latios to Greninja to Terrakion 1 on 1. Ice Punch hits Landorus-T which doesnt seem like much, but hey, he's far and away the best OU mon so it comes in handy. Healing Wish is also an option if your team is super offensive, but I personally don't love it. The next set is baton pass, which hits slow counters like Slowbro with a PuP before baton passing out to something that can really abuse the +1 attack, I really like Azumarill, but there are lots of options. The final set is toxic + protect. Might seem weird to forgo fake out, but protect allows toxic to really get quite annoying because in those two turns it's a real pain, wearing things down. Also makes predicting vs. Landorus-T with a scarf a joke, and if you can toxic him on the switch in and he clicks U-Turn, it's a really bad day for the cat. In general, toxic is amazing to hit stuff like Slowbro and bulky Landorus-T, making them constantly being forced to switch out to prevent toxic from getting too bad.
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch / Healing Wish
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Power-Up-Punch
- Baton Pass
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Toxic
- Protect
Ok, so I think these are basically the three viable Lopunny sets. The first one is standard all out attacker, Fake Out is completely necessary for chip damage and beating stuff from Thundurus to Latios to Greninja to Terrakion 1 on 1. Ice Punch hits Landorus-T which doesnt seem like much, but hey, he's far and away the best OU mon so it comes in handy. Healing Wish is also an option if your team is super offensive, but I personally don't love it. The next set is baton pass, which hits slow counters like Slowbro with a PuP before baton passing out to something that can really abuse the +1 attack, I really like Azumarill, but there are lots of options. The final set is toxic + protect. Might seem weird to forgo fake out, but protect allows toxic to really get quite annoying because in those two turns it's a real pain, wearing things down. Also makes predicting vs. Landorus-T with a scarf a joke, and if you can toxic him on the switch in and he clicks U-Turn, it's a really bad day for the cat. In general, toxic is amazing to hit stuff like Slowbro and bulky Landorus-T, making them constantly being forced to switch out to prevent toxic from getting too bad.
Surely with Adamant though, you miss out on two major pokemon in terms of speed, such as Greninja and max speed Salamence? The latter is not that often seen at the minute, but being able to slaughter Greninja and Weaville before eating a hydro/Icicle crash is definitely going to be useful. You also miss out on +1 Adamant D'Nite and MegaDos, both of which could be revenged with Ice Punch and HJ, respectively. Sceptiles not running max speed/unevolved also fall into the same bracket.
Another target is Magneton, which has been useful for its ability to outspeed Greninja with a scarf; I've seen it quite a bit recently. Is that extra bit of power from Adamant entirely necessary? I would think in the ORAS meta that the >120 speed tier is going to be important.
I really like the idea of Toxic + Protect Lopunny, although the surprise factor is gone quickly so you need to be careful not to spam Protect. But yeah scouting scarfed Landorus-T is very useful indeed and it helps against opposing Lopunny (HJK anyone?). Lopunny is definitely looking like a threat.
Relevant speed tier information if you don't want to go for max speed or want more bulk for Subs:
232 Jolly: outspeeds Adamant Mega Aero and Modest Mega Zam
216 Jolly: outspeeds Timid/Jolly base 130's
204 Jolly: outspeeds +1 Adamant Mega Gyarados and +1 Adamant Dragonite
196 Jolly: outspeeds Modest Sceptile and Adamant Beedrill
176 Jolly: outspeeds Jolly Weavile
152 Jolly: outspeeds Naive/Timid Greninja
136 Jolly: outspeeds Timid/Jolly base 120's
Not all of those may be useful, but I figure I'd at least put those out there. Could help to add some bulk on Sub passing sets.
232 Jolly: outspeeds Adamant Mega Aero and Modest Mega Zam
216 Jolly: outspeeds Timid/Jolly base 130's
204 Jolly: outspeeds +1 Adamant Mega Gyarados and +1 Adamant Dragonite
196 Jolly: outspeeds Modest Sceptile and Adamant Beedrill
176 Jolly: outspeeds Jolly Weavile
152 Jolly: outspeeds Naive/Timid Greninja
136 Jolly: outspeeds Timid/Jolly base 120's
Not all of those may be useful, but I figure I'd at least put those out there. Could help to add some bulk on Sub passing sets.
You're never going to outspeed Timid Sceptile (145 base speed), as it tends to speed creep down to be just faster than Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny. Mega Aero and Mega Zam are not common, but they are relevant (A- and B+ in the viability thread right now). Again, it may not all be useful all the time, just worth noting if you want to clean up dead EVs. I don't really see a reason to run 252 Jolly speed unless you want to speed tie Manectric, Zam and Aero are the next real possible speed tier out there. If Lopunny is valuable to your team (and possibly at -1), I'm going to switch it to my Mega Mane check anyway.
- Status