Pokémon Lucario

[Noobish]

Since Lucario is as frail as it is, why not have a Baton Passer for him?

Mew@Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 Hp/4 Def/4 SpD/252 Spe
Timid/Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance/Nasty Plot
- Gravity?
- Baton Pass
Mew's weakness tend to have good synergy with Lucario's resists, but those boosts may give something away.

Lucario@Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- ExtremeSpeed/Bullet Punch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Lucario@Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus/Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Modest/Timid Nature
-Focus Blast/Aura Sphere - Gravity Fail Blast is an extra turn to set up, but might be worth is since FB has 240 BP, Like CC.
-Dark Pulse
-Flash Cannon
-Vacuum Wave

This might help alleviate Lucario's 4MSS.

Granted, Taunt'll have its way with this, as will phazing, plus the opponent may set up all the hazards they need or set up their own sweeper. Not to mention killing off Mew, but Mew is fairly bulky so that may be a non-issue.

Tell me everything that won't work here (since that's what usually happens)!

 

[Alejandro36]

What will also happen is the opponent predicting the lucario switch in (with BP) and just killing him with EQ, flamethrower, etc. If you do manage to pull if off is usually gg, since not even scarfers will be able to revenge kill lucario after the rock polish.

 

[Primary]

Baton Passing is not an answer. If it were, than I could argue that pretty much every UU Pokemon is capable of being top OU with Baton Pass support.
*****
Mega Lucario may not by the bulkiest Pokemon out there but with his passable defenses and plethora of resistances, he can usually have enough set-up opportunities in a match to sweep.

 

[Sandoori]

If you're worried about Lucario's frailty when trying to switch it in, you can run something like a screens Klefki with Eject Button. Put up the relevant screen against whatever you're fighting, then Lucario switches in for free when Klefki gets hit. Add Recycle if you want to be able to do it more than once.

I don't like the idea of Baton Pass for the reason Alejandro36 gave. imo if you're going to baton pass to something it should be something that can take a hit on the switch-in, because if you haven't been taunted or phazed yet, you're probably getting hit with an SE move on the switch.

Or, if you really do want to run a Baton Pass set, run one with an attacking move so Mew isn't forced to pass in an unsafe situation for Luc.

 

[Tava]

I feel like Extreemspeed should be slashed in with bullet punch on the mega SD set. Been testing it for a little bit, and it's really nice to hit those Thundurus-I's and Keldeo (even Talonflame's) who all laugh at Bullet Punch.

 

[BenTheDemon]

I want to know other people's opinions.
Is standard Lucario viable anymore?

 

[Ninetale3]

Is standard Lucario viable anymore?

I thought the same thing and messed with it a bit and the answer is yes. The classic sd standard lucario still holds it's merits. The only thing is that it is limited to late game sweeping and is harder to pull off.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

I feel like Extreemspeed should be slashed in with bullet punch on the mega SD set. Been testing it for a little bit, and it's really nice to hit those Thundurus-I's and Keldeo (even Talonflame's) who all laugh at Bullet Punch.

Yeah I've been curious about this - it is just as powerful as adaptability bullet punch, but with mostly better neutral coverage, especially combined with close combat (you're gonna need crunch for ghosts though).

 

[ATH]

I want to know other people's opinions.
Is standard Lucario viable anymore?

Definitely. Just needs the right team to cover, though, it may work better as a Mega, it's still viable.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Noobish-- Rock Polish is probably not a good idea. Since Luke is really frail, you're going to want Mew to be slow so it can take a hit and THEN pass to Luke safely (not letting Luke take a hit). Just use Roost or an attacking move, and consider 0 Speed -Speed nature on Mew even.

A faster baton passer is better for a pass target that has more bulk.

 

[TheLonelyUmbreon]

how is Mega Lucario too overpowered? I mean it doesn't have very high speeds like mega alakazam does, just hit with super effective special moves and its dead plus burn physical variant and its pretty much crippled. I mean it still has the same checks and counters as normal lucario plus some new ones. other pokemon have the ability adaptability like crawdaunt and he isn't banned into ubers. so why ban it into ubers? it makes no sense to ban a mega evolution that still can be destroyed with out too much effort and still retains the same checks and counters from its normal form. honestly most of us wanted to run something other than the e-speed killer set back in gen 5 that's all it could run because it has not that great speed and decent offenses and now they are banning its mega evolution just to prevent other players from doing something other than extreme killer Lucario.

 

[RandysRage]

how is Mega Lucario too overpowered? I mean it doesn't have very high speeds like mega alakazam does, just hit with super effective special moves and its dead plus burn physical variant and its pretty much crippled. I mean it still has the same checks and counters as normal lucario plus some new ones. other pokemon have the ability adaptability like crawdaunt and he isn't banned into ubers. so why ban it into ubers? it makes no sense to ban a mega evolution that still can be destroyed with out too much effort and still retains the same checks and counters from its normal form. honestly most of us wanted to run something other than the e-speed killer set back in gen 5 that's all it could run because it has not that great speed and decent offenses and now they are banning its mega evolution just to prevent other players from doing something other than extreme killer Lucario.

Mega Lucario isn't "overpowered", its "scary as hell to switch into until you know what set it runs". MegaLuke is a terror because not only is it quick on its feet with a Base Speed of 112, you literally have no idea if its gonna be Physical, Special, or Mixed; each set has its own checks and counters and by the time you've figured out its function, you've likely lost half your team. One of the few ways I've found to handle MegaLuke is to hit it hard with something faster (Luke is slower before it Mega Evolves) as soon as you see it, and even then its not a guaranteed check because of Luke's many resistances. And while Crawdaunt may also have Adaptability, it is much slower and its typing makes it easier to handle.

 

[Kayden]

Mega Lucario isn't "overpowered", its "scary as hell to switch into until you know what set it runs". MegaLuke is a terror because not only is it quick on its feet with a Base Speed of 112, you literally have no idea if its gonna be Physical, Special, or Mixed; each set has its own checks and counters and by the time you've figured out its function, you've likely lost half your team. One of the few ways I've found to handle MegaLuke is to hit it hard with something faster (Luke is slower before it Mega Evolves) as soon as you see it, and even then its not a guaranteed check because of Luke's many resistances. And while Crawdaunt may also have Adaptability, it is much slower and its typing makes it easier to handle.

I agree that the big difference in speed between Lucario and Mega-Lucario might be it's biggest vulnerability, especially against experienced players. Even while building your team it should be reasonably easy to identify which pokemon might give Lucario an opportunity to switch in, this should be even more clear during a battle. Anything that has over 306 speed (90 Base, positive nature, 252 EVs) that can OHKO Lucario, or anything that can survive 1 unboosted attack from Mega-Lucario and OHKO back can be used to double switch when you expect Lucario to come in. This means that Lucario either will need to switch out to avoid getting instantly knocked out after mega-evolving or it will fail to KO your pokemon after mega-evolving and gets knocked out. Double switching is of course not without risks but preventing Lucario from mega-evolving might be worth the risk of losing momentum. Even if you cannot OHKO it, it might be worth to sacrifice one of your pokemon to weaken it on a double switch while it mega-evolves in order to find out its set and putting it in range to be knocked out by priority. Even though it has many resistances it is weak to Fire, Fighting and Ground, and these 3 attack types are fairly common.

 

[RedBomberX]

Why was my post removed from public view it was a question....in a recent tournament I was in, someone complained about me using Mega Lucario saying it will be banned soon.

I just wanted a confirmation...but I guess I got my answer. With that kind of response.....

Sorry if my curiosity offended anyone O_o

 

[Talpr0ne]

Why was my post removed from public view it was a question....in a recent tournament I was in, someone complained about me using Mega Lucario saying it will be banned soon.

I just wanted a confirmation...but I guess I got my answer. With that kind of response.....

Sorry if my curiosity offended anyone O_o

Actually yesterday a suspect test has started for Mega-Lucario(Genesect and Deoxys-S too), you can see it in the first threads in the OU Subforum. But anyway who cares if it will be banned soon, feel free to use it when it is still allowed.

Speaking of the eventual ban of MegaLucario, how do you think regular Lucario will perform in this metagame? I can see it dropping in UU, it has really little to offer that other Fighting types can't, imho.

 

[azureleaf17]

Actually yesterday a suspect test has started for Mega-Lucario(Genesect and Deoxys-S too), you can see it in the first threads in the OU Subforum. But anyway who cares if it will be banned soon, feel free to use it when it is still allowed.

Speaking of the eventual ban of MegaLucario, how do you think regular Lucario will perform in this metagame? I can see it dropping in UU, it has really little to offer that other Fighting types can't, imho.

Lucario is still scary. Right now, the only reason why you don't see normal Lucario is because there's no reason to use it over its Mega Evolution, but if you'd prefer to use another Mega, then regular Lucario is still a viable choice. Its best set in Generation V was SD / CC / ES / Ice Punch, which blew up a lot of OU late-game because +2 ExtremeSpeed destroyed a lot of Pokemon faster than it, and +2 Close Combat and Ice Punch/Bullet Punch took care of anything slower and bulkier. It could also go with Agility, Nasty Plot, or Calm Mind, which threw in the same element of surprise as you have to face now with Mega Lucario (only without having to offer up half your team as sacrificial lambs). One of its main draws is also its unique typing; it quad-resists Stealth Rock and U-Turn, two of the best moves in OU, and also helps it to get in and set up the SD that it needs to help it sweep. I don't see it dropping out of OU; it wasn't the scariest thing even in Generation V, but the metagame shift didn't really affect its niche of being nearly unaffected by Scarfers and priority because of ExtremeSpeed.

 

[Jukain]

I think people overlook Extreme Speed a lot on SD Mega Lucario. It's just an excellent option, as it is roughly equal in power to Bullet Punch (does like a few tenths of a percentage point lower to neutral targets) whilst actually doing some nice things, most notably screwing over Talonflame, aka Mega Lucario check #1. It does some other neat stuff, too, such as kill Greninja with a +2 boost (well it's a 50% chance but that's guaranteed after it's taken one turn of Life Orb, or switched into SR a mere one time (thanks Deoxys-S!). Overall it's an underrated move with excellent utility that cannot be underestimated. It's slashed in the OP, but doesn't get nearly enough credit on teams in general.

There's also a variant on the Special NP set that works (thanks to Ash Borer for introducing the set to me): NP / Aura Sphere / Vacuum Wave / Shadow Ball (or Dark Pulse it really doesn't matter, but SDef drops are fun ^.^). Basically, this set trades Flash Cannon for extra coverage AND the priority move. It works nicely, as you don't really /need/ Flash Cannon, while hitting Aegislash can prove really crucial, and the priority to take out RK'ers like Scarfsect is really nice. This set works well in my experience, and is a nice variation on the typical set.

 

[Always!]

I think people overlook Extreme Speed a lot on SD Mega Lucario. It's just an excellent option, as it is roughly equal in power to Bullet Punch (does like a few tenths of a percentage point lower to neutral targets) whilst actually doing some nice things, most notably screwing over Talonflame, aka Mega Lucario check #1. It does some other neat stuff, too, such as kill Greninja with a +2 boost (well it's a 50% chance but that's guaranteed after it's taken one turn of Life Orb, or switched into SR a mere one time (thanks Deoxys-S!). Overall it's an underrated move with excellent utility that cannot be underestimated. It's slashed in the OP, but doesn't get nearly enough credit on teams in general.

There's also a variant on the Special NP set that works (thanks to Ash Borer for introducing the set to me): NP / Aura Sphere / Vacuum Wave / Shadow Ball (or Dark Pulse it really doesn't matter, but SDef drops are fun ^.^). Basically, this set trades Flash Cannon for extra coverage AND the priority move. It works nicely, as you don't really /need/ Flash Cannon, while hitting Aegislash can prove really crucial, and the priority to take out RK'ers like Scarfsect is really nice. This set works well in my experience, and is a nice variation on the typical set.

That final set is also Standard, it simply trades Aegislash for more general utility. Not bad IMO, and the top S-Rankers aren't as popular as they were (tho the suspects may get some more attention now.) Honestly, I just can't decide, Mega Luke has options, but every time I try something new, it simply seems to be stopped without making a difference.....

 

[Shroomisaur]

Now that Mega Lucario is suspect, I see a lot of people coming out with their favorite sets! I agree with Jukain, Vacuum Wave is a wonderful tool on a special Mega Luke set. The ability to pick off many Scarfers like weakened Genesect and things like Greninja/Mega Manectric is wonderful, and it's been an oddly underrated option for some reason. I run a very similar set to the variant posted above with one key difference:

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse
- Vacuum Wave

Dropping Aura Sphere might seem crazy, but I've found that most opponents will never switch something into MegaLuke unless it resists Fighting or is faster, because of the huge threat of CC. Aura Sphere doesn't have the bone-crushing power of Close Combat anyway, and I still have Vacuum Wave for Fighting-type coverage against faster threats. Because of this, I kept Flash Cannon as the primary STAB to hit things like Mega Pinsir/Heracross and Sylveon/Clefable/Togekiss/Azumarill, which otherwise wall you if you lack a Steel-type STAB. Dark Pulse rounds out the coverage against Aegislash which is otherwise a huge pain for most Lucario.

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 192-228 (67.8 - 80.5%)
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 222-262 (78.7 - 92.9%)
+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 260-306 (80.2 - 94.4%)

 

[Abra Kapocus]

So, I'm looking through the X/Y viability thread, and I'm wondering just what regular Luc can switch in on / set up on / scare away? Can't be Aegislash because he might eat a Sacred Sword. Can't be Venusaur, after going mega it walls him all day long or packs HP Fire. Can't be Pinsir, Charizard, maybe Heatran, Chomp, Talonflame... so how exactly is he still threatening in the metagame?

 

[TC Terra]

Well as you said it cannot switch into Aegislash but it may be able to scare it away. Same with Heatran, if you predict Heatran using Stealth Rocks or Toxic bringing in Lucario most of the time will force the switch and you can either predict it and get a free Swords Dance or don't take any chances and go straight for Close Combat. As for the others, Lucario can't touch them as they are faster than it and all have Super Effective moves against it as Lucario doesn't have the best defenses ever neither. (Exception to Venusaur which has great bulk and typing instead) Lucario managed in Gen 5 well so I think it can do well even outside its Mega Evolution.

 

[Jaguar360]

I haven't tried this in XY, but what about Scarf Lucario? It helps Lucario's speed problem a little bit.
Lucario @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk/Sp. Atk, 4 Atk/Sp. Atk/Def
Timid/Jolly/Naive Nature
- Close Combat/Aura Sphere
- Extremespeed/Bullet Punch/Vacuum Wave/Flash Cannon
- Crunch/Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse
- Ice Punch/Flash Cannon/Psychic

Unfortunately, this set lacks the power of the other sets, but 110/115 offenses are still nothing to sneeze at. Still, Physical Luscarfrio only 2HKOes Gliscor: 252 Atk Lucario Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 192-228 (54.2 - 64.4%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
but can still has a chance to OHKO Physical Defensive Blissey: 252 Atk Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 632-746 (88.5 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Special calcs:
252 SpA Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 320-378 (111.8 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (No s*** I know)
252 SpA Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Lucario Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 156-184 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So yeah, probably not worth it, but has anyone tried Scarfed Lucario or is willing to try it in this metagame? It looks interesting at least and worked for me in Gen IV.

 

[TC Terra]

I'll try it tomorrow and Shoot you a PM. I probably won't have school tomorrow. Back to Lucario, I kinds like that set, only problem I got off with Gliscor. If Gliscor isn't poisoned then maybe but if it is, it can easily just Protect to get more HP back. All the other Calcs seem rather weak to me but no doubt a scarf Lucario can be a great revenge killer.

 

[doughboy]

So yeah, probably not worth it, but has anyone tried Scarfed Lucario or is willing to try it in this metagame? It looks interesting at least and worked for me in Gen IV.

I would say Scarf Lucario is not worth it. First of all Choice Scarf Fighting-type attacks is really something you do not want to throw out there. Aegislash has a very heavy presence in the tier with 16% usage on all teams. Aegislash can easily punish you with a Shadow Ball backed by base 150 special attack, which almost all offensive teams have little to no way to handle. Even outside of that, Scarf Lucario fell out of favor for good reason in fifth gen: competition from both Terrakion and Keldeo. Keldeo and Terrakion have a better secondary STAB to revenge a wider variety of targets while Lucario does not. For example Terrakion's rock STAB let's it revenge kill Flying-type sweepers much more reliably than Lucario's weak Ice Punch. In addition, both Keldeo and Terrakion have a much higher speed tier, which covers some very critical threats such as +1 speed Dragon Dance Charizard X. Also they are stronger than Lucario considering a Scarf Lucario would be forced to use a positive speed nature if using Choice Scarf.

 

[Abra Kapocus]

I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of his options have already been extensively documented in gen IV and V.