Machamp

68.png

Machamp

<p>No Guard Dynamicpunch GG.</p>

Machamp returns to OU as frustrating as ever, though it quite possibly faces competition from many other things for the role of a Fighting-type.

Code:
[B]Machamp[/B]
 
[B]#68[/B]
[B] Fighting-type[/B]
 
 
[B]Base HP: [/B]90
[B]Base Attack:[/B] 130
[B]Base Defense:[/B] 80
[B]Base Special Attack:[/B] 65
[B]Base Special Defense:[/B] 85
[B]Base Speed: [/B]55
 
[B]Abilities:[/B]
 
[B]Guts[/B]: Attack raises to 1.5 times when induced with a status (BURN, PARALYZE, SLEEP, POISON, FREEZE). BURN’s effect of lowering Attack is not applied. 
[B]No Guard[/B]: The accuracy of all moves known by all Pokémon on the field raises to 100% 
 
[B]Hidden Ability[/B] [I](Not Available)[/I]: 
[B]Steadfast[/B]: Speed raises by one level every time the Pokémon flinches. 
 
[B]Level Up Moves:[/B]
 
- Wide Guard
- Low Kick
- Leer
- Focus Energy
- Karate Chop
7 - Focus Energy
10 - Karate Chop
13 - Low Sweep
19 - Foresight
22 - Seismic Toss
25 - Revenge
32 - Vital Throw
36 - Submission
40 - Wake-up Slap
44 - Cross Chop
51 - Scary Face
[B]55 -Dynamicpunch[/B]
 
[B]TM & HM Moves:[/B]
 
TM06 Toxic
TM08 Bulk Up
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11Sunny Day 
TM15 Hyper Beam 
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM23 Smack Down
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM28 Dig
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM47 Low Sweep
TM48 Round
TM52 Focus Blast
TM56 Fling
TM59 Incinerate
[B]TM66 Payback[/B]
TM67 Retaliate
TM68 Giga Impact
[B]TM71 Stone Edge[/B]
TM78  Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM83 Work Up
TM84 Poison Jab
TM87 Swagger
[B]TM90 Substitute[/B]
TM94 Rock Smash
HM04 Strength
 
 
[B]Egg Moves[/B]
 
Meditate
Rolling Kick
Encore
Smellingsalt
Counter
[B]Close Combat[/B]
Fire Punch
Thunderpunch
[B]Ice Punch[/B]
[B]Bullet Punch[/B]
Power Trick
Heavy Slam
Knock Off
Tickle
 
[B]Gen 4 Only Moves:[/B]
 
Focus Punch - Gen IV TM01
Secret Power - Gen IV TM43
Endure - Gen IV TM58
Captivate - Gen IV TM78
[B]Sleep Talk[/B] - Gen IV TM82
Natural Gift - Gen IV TM83
Vacuum Wave - Move Tutor - PtHGSS
Helping Hand - Move Tutor - PtHGSS
Snore - Move Tutor - PtHGSS
Mud-slap - Move Tutor - PtHGSS
Superpower - Move Tutor - PtHGSS
Magic Coat - Move Tutor - HGSS
Role Play - Move Tutor - HGSS
Headbutt - Move Tutor - HGSS

There is pretty much nothing new in Machamp's arsenal this generation, though it definitely has enough to compete.


[At a Glance]
  • No Guard - Pretty good ability by itself, but with Machamp it's monstrous. You have a 100% accuracy 100 Base Power STAB move that will always confuse the opponent in Dynamicpunch. While this is Machamp's main draw, it also can now use a perfect accuracy Stone Edge. The one big drawback is that any attack will hit it, which can be crucial.
  • Guts - Another good ability which Machamp can use nicely. You're not going to be using Dynamicpunch in this situation, but you have access to STAB Close Combat, so you're good.
  • Steadfast - Not a very good Dream World ability, you really shouldn't be using it considering you have so many better options.
  • Decent offensive movepool - Dynamicpunch is definitely the main draw here, but it does have access to Close Combat as well, and coverage moves in the elemental punches. Priority in Bullet Punch also helps. Among other options are Stone Edge and Payback to compliment Machamp's Fighting STAB.
  • Fairly slow and defensively weak - It has _decent_ bulk, but it's never going to stand up to many of the more powerful hits in OU, meaning that it will either be on the field for a short time or be taking advantage of Substitute.
So, again, Machamp really didn't change much at all - it got no new additions in terms of abilities or moves that it can actually use well. The loss of Sleep Talk this generation is a bit of a loss, but you can always just get it in Gen 4 and cross it over since, again, no big change in BW. It still works the same way it always does - spamming incredibly powerful Fighting-type attacks with some coverage moves in there to take care of threats who are in the way.

However, what really changed Machamp and ultimately caused its fall to UU was the metagame that surrounds it right now. OU has had a massive power creep, and Machamp often falls prey to faster Pokemon which prey on its bulk, and by faster Pokemon I mean at least half the tier. However not many of these can switch into Machamp because of the ever present threat of Dynamicpunch, which is a good thing. The bad news is that a lot of these can switch in on a lot of Machamp's other attacks that don't cause confusion and OHKO Machamp, especially with the advent of weather abusers and their STAB Fire / Water attacks.

Machamp really wishes it had more to separate itself, but it just doesn't have the same qualities that the other Fighting-types in OU have. Terrakion is amazingly fast, amazing STABs, Swords Dance AND Rock Polish. Scrafty has good coverage and excellent bulk to boost up with and sweep with Dragon Dance or Bulk Up. Perhaps the most obvious, though, is Conkeldurr, which everyone thought was outclassed by Machamp early on but has proved to be that much better thanks to higher Attack, overall bulk, and STAB priority. Besides those mentioned, the list really does go on for a while, but you get the point - most of the Fighting-types in OU do a specific niche which Machamp cannot fill or can't really fill as well as its peers, which is what sent it down a tier.

Moving past what's bad about our muscular friend, it still works nicely in OU when it's given the right support. There are just about two really good sets that Machamp can run - 4 Attacks and Substitute.

Lead Attacker:


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Machamp @ Lum Berry
Adamant | 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
- Dynamicpunch
- Bullet Punch
- Ice Punch / Stone Edge
- Payback

Hits incredibly hard right off the bat, and can set a huge amount of offensive pressure on the opponent. Smashes through anything weak to its STAB, and it can get through quite a bit of other stuff too if it gets confusion hax, which by the way is 50 / 50. Very frustrating indeed. STAB is obvious, while Bullet Punch gives it priority to take out some physically weak threats as low health, such as Terrakion and Gengar. Ice Punch is a great option to 2HKO Dragon-types and break Dragonite's Multiscale while also getting an excellent hit on Gliscor, who tanks this set nicely otherwise. Stone Edge can hit sun abusers and Ninetales really hard though, so that's an option, especially with perfect accuracy. Payback hits Psychic-types hard, though the Payback nerf this gen hurts it (it doesn't double in power when a Pokemon switches into it). Thus, you can run something else in that moveslot if you would really like to, namely Thunderpunch and Earthquake to get harder hits on Jellicent / Gyarados and Toxicroak. Substitute is also an option, but that's better suited for...

Substitute + 3 Attacks:



68.png

Machamp @ Leftovers
Adamant | 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
- Dynamicpunch
- Substitute
- Stone Edge
- Payback

Taking advantage of the switches Machamp can easily cause, you can just as easily run a set around Substitute so that the opponent has to send in a Pokemon to be slaughtered to break the Sub. Dynamicpunch is incredible when you have a free turn to use it, nothing new there. Stone Edge gets a solid hit on Ghost-types if you feel pained to use Payback, and it also hits Flying-types not named Skarmory hard, namely Gyarados. Volcarona and Ninetales are also hit super effectively, which is a big plus. You can use Ice Punch in that slot to nail Gliscor and Dragon-types, but you can usually work around them otherwise. Payback scores a solid hit on Ghost-types, usually one or two-shotting Gengar and Chandelure while also scoring decent damage on Jellicent even if you don't outspeed. Celebi is also "outslowed" and hit for double damage, which is a big plus.

You can run a few other sets two, namely Choice and RestTalk, but they aren't the best options, considering they're either unviable or outclassed by different Machamp spreads or other Pokemon.


machamp.gif



I just realized he's flexing his pecs if you look hard enough 0_o

ok so yeah, discuss Machamp in all of its glory.
 
You forgot to mention Bulk Up. I'd put it next to Choice and RestTalk for "mostly unviable or out-classed" but it's an option this boy has.

Machamp hates Ghost-types even more than Mienshao. It has to be said. With No Guard, they have the ability to WoW him, making him useless. More than that, the only reason to use Machamp is NG DP. Even resists can lose to confusion hax. But them being utterly immune prevents it, taking away Machamp's only real advantage in OU. So getting rid of them is sorta crucial to using him.
On the bright side, Slowbro doesn't use Own Tempo anymore. :P

I gotta go, so I'll post more later. The point is, Machamp is still awesome and fun to use, he's just not teh bestest anymore.
 
Machamp is actually great in OU from my experiences, teams find it very difficult to switch in to him, and with maximum HP investment, very few unboosted attacks are able to outright OHKO him making his checks shakier. I even ran Payapa berry to combat Alakazam which allowed to take a Psychic for roughly 70% damage, KOing with Payback/Stone Edge +Bullet punch in return.
 
I actually faced you on the UU ladder and you managed to take out my rampaging alakazam thanks to payapa berry screwing everything up lol

regardless, resist berries are iffy on machamp because you're still 2HKOed by a lot of powerful neutral attacks anyways and OHKOed my some as well, i.e. specs rotom-w hydro pump in the rain. I agree he is very hard to take out one on one but once you get a revenge killer in there machamp's kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place.

edit: really gimmicky, you can always just run scarf... but that's better in UU anyways
 
Could Scary Face be an option, albeit gimmicky? I'm asking because looking at the checks and counters for Machamp, I've noticed that they do their job as they can take at least one hit from him, and KO back due to their greater speed and Machamp's less than stellar bulk.
 
Could Scary Face be an option, albeit gimmicky? I'm asking because looking at the checks and counters for Machamp, I've noticed that they do their job as they can take at least one hit from him, and KO back due to their greater speed and Machamp's less than stellar bulk.

Scary face is really only an option if you know you're opponent is going to switch. If your opponent is going to stay in, they either have a plan or they're stupid. Honestly, if machamp is going to do anything on a switch, I would rather do something more useful, such as firing off a dynamicpunch or getting a substitute up (if you know they're switching to a ghost or something).
 
Resist berries seem pretty situational, but i suppose they could work if your team is weak to certain threats. As relating to Machamp, they seem like a great way to get rid of any given check, but again I feel like losing the advantages of lum/lefties would require that Champ check to be a pretty big problem for you. As a lure, it seems better off in UU than OU.

Scary Face wouldn't work too well, I wouldn't think. Most switch-ins are probably going to be able to either OHKO or do massive damage to Machamp (or just wall it, like Gen4 Slowbro). If they are the former, you'll probably only get one hit on them anyway, so it might as well be on the switch-in. It might seem like Scary Face would ease that prediction, but unless you know their switch-in anyway, it might not be beneficial to use Scary Face at all, re-complicating the prediction matter. If their switch-in is the latter, then Scary Face won't make any difference.
IMO, Machamp's 4MSS is too great to warrant Scary Face.
 
It's really too bad that team preview and the encore nerf really killed this pokemon. IMO, it really needs Drain Punch + Mach Punch like Conkeldurr. This would make Guts so much more usable to beat those ghost types that will inevitably burn you. It's just way too one dimensional with No Guard + DP to really come up with any gamebreaking innovative set to increase its usage.

Just my two cents.

EDIT: I'm suggesting this for UU Machamp as Conkeldurr outclasses it in OU.
 
Has anyone tried Lum with Thunder Punch and enough Speed EVs to outspeed standart Jellicent?
With a set like:

Machamp@Lum Berry
252 Atk/88 Spe/168 HP
Adamant
Dynamic Punch
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch/Stone Edge
Bullet Punch/Stone Edge

With this coverage he is alot harder to wall in the current OU. The old payback/stone edge coverage was more suited to fourth Gen, where rotom was still a ghost and i don't see how Stone Edge is so much better than Thunder Punch considering its lets you muscle through Jellicent while, Stone Edge is only really useful for Volcarona.
 
Has anyone tried Lum with Thunder Punch and enough Speed EVs to outspeed standart Jellicent?
With a set like:

Machamp@Lum Berry
252 Atk/88 Spe/168 HP
Adamant
Dynamic Punch
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch/Stone Edge
Bullet Punch/Stone Edge

With this coverage he is alot harder to wall in the current OU. The old payback/stone edge coverage was more suited to fourth Gen, where rotom was still a ghost and i don't see how Stone Edge is so much better than Thunder Punch considering its lets you muscle through Jellicent while, Stone Edge is only really useful for Volcarona.
Standard Jellicent runs 44 Speed EVs (according to the analysis, but we all know about speed creep), so Machamp would actually need 128 EVs to beat it, if I'm not mistaken.
While this set seems to have merit, ThunderPunch really is useless. Against the on-site standard Jellicent, ThunderPunch does 42.2%-49.6%, which obviously isn't even a 2HKO. This leaves time for Jellicent to burn you and thus cripple your Machamp. Granted, you might have hazards up, but then again you might not.
While ThunderPunch does indeed destroy Gyarados (it does 77.6%-91.6% to the defensive set; although with Intimidate that becomes 51.9%-61.1%), I don't think that one Pokemon is enough to justify using ThunderPunch, especially when it's not even immune to DynamicPunch.
Furthermore, by running so much Speed, you really lose out on investing in Machamp's (mediocre) bulk, and you might as well run the Substitute set so you can take hits behind its safety.
No offense, BurningMan, but I don't see your set's viability. :/
 
If you want to get past Jellicent, you'd probably want to try Sub-Bulk Up set:

Machamp @ Leftovers
248 HP / 216 Atk / 44 SDef | Adamant
~ Bulk Up
~ Substitute
~ Dynamic Punch
~ Payback


EVs allows Substitute to stay intact against a Jellicent's scald 87% of the time, while Machamp 2HKOs jelli with +0 Payback. After +1 Bulk Up, Sub would stay intact against a Gliscor's EQ 75% of the time. +1 Payback is a 4HKO on Gliscor, so you would want to depend on DPunch's confusion to get past Gliscor (or boost up to +2).

CB Machamp doesn't sound bad at all, but it's outclassed by Terrakion for the most part, although it does have a more reliable Ice Punch to get past Gliscor. I would definitely not discount CB if I'm using Machamp in OU. Perfectly accurate Stone-Edge and DPunches are appealing, but Guts CB Champ sounds really promising, too.
 
Pocket said:
If you want to get past Jellicent, you'd probably want to try Sub-Bulk Up set:

Machamp @ Leftovers
248 HP / 216 Atk / 44 SDef | Adamant
~ Bulk Up
~ Substitute
~ Dynamic Punch
~ Payback


EVs allows Substitute to stay intact against a Jellicent's scald 87% of the time, while Machamp 2HKOs jelli with +0 Payback. After +1 Bulk Up, Sub would stay intact against a Gliscor's EQ 75% of the time. +1 Payback is a 4HKO on Gliscor, so you would want to depend on DPunch's confusion to get past Gliscor (or boost up to +2).
That's an interesting set, Pocket. I believe that Gliscor could still sop it, though. TauntSD Scor could prevent you from getting to more than +1, and then SD a couple times to 2HKO you. While more defensive Gliscors could break your Sub and then Toxic you, assuming you don't Sub again the same turn they break it. But you'd have to get lucky, and have them fail to break it when you're at +1.

However, I think I'll try it some day, as it does so fascinate me. Luckily, it's not really outclassed by Conkeldurr due to DynamicPunch (geez I love that move).

Pocket said:
CB Machamp doesn't sound bad at all, but it's outclassed by Terrakion for the most part, although it does have a more reliable Ice Punch to get past Gliscor. I would definitely not discount CB if I'm using Machamp in OU. Perfectly accurate Stone-Edge and DPunches are appealing, but Guts CB Champ sounds really promising, too.
I think Guts CB Machamp would be outclassed by CB Conkeldurr though. It has a Superpower equally strong to your Close Combat (for the first turn, anyway, but on such a slow Choiced Pokemon, I doubt you'd stay in for more than a turn or two anyway), and a higher Attack to work with. It's also bulkier on the physical side (albeit less bulky specially) and has STAB on its priority move.

Machamp may have a better coverage option in Ice Punch, but then Terrakion can 2HKO Gliscor and Skarmory with STAB Stone Edge anyway. I really am of the opinion that in order to avoid being outclassed, Machamp has to be using No Guard DynamicPunch.
 
You're right that Conkeldurr is most likely a better Guts CBer, but I haven't faced a single CB Conkeldurr as of yet - most people would opt for the Bulk Up set. If you're using Conkeldurr, mine as well use Bulk Up rather than CBand. Machamp doesn't really have "anything better to do," so CB is worth considering, even if it is technically outclassed by the non-existent CB Conky.

I feel like Guts is better for Machamp, because it could then actually stay in on Jellicent to finish it off / severely maim it, whereas No Guard Machamp is forced to retreat after taking ~63% of Jelli's health with TPunch, which is not hard to recover off.
 
Something to note about the whole Machamp vs Conkeldurr thing. Skarmory can wall both of them, but skarmory will have a harder time doing so if he switches into a dynamicpunch. Additionally, skarmory can't set up on machamp thanks to encore, so don't think you can just come in and get your hazards up.

As for conkeldurr, skarmory will just taunt you if your stupid enough to stay in, and conkeldurr can't outspeed skarmory. So, conkeldurr is walled completely and there's nothing you can do about it.
 
machamp was muscle in gen 4 and usually offered you a distinct advatage in most one-on-one situations. now theres terrakion and conkelduur who outpunch machamp physically but not necessarily in an attempt to gain momentum by shuffling their team around when called upon in the appropriate circumstance that it thrives in.

hes still extremely useful given he is by no means a pushover when his bulk should see him through this metagame. i tried a scarfset amongst standard varients and personally i would opt for this EV spread: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spd

but machamp really is still about dpunch and coverage that he possess to keep the opponent guessing.
 
Standard Jellicent runs 44 Speed EVs (according to the analysis, but we all know about speed creep), so Machamp would actually need 128 EVs to beat it, if I'm not mistaken.

Nope you need 88 EVs i checked it.

While this set seems to have merit, ThunderPunch really is useless. Against the on-site standard Jellicent, ThunderPunch does 42.2%-49.6%, which obviously isn't even a 2HKO. This leaves time for Jellicent to burn you and thus cripple your Machamp. Granted, you might have hazards up, but then again you might not.
While ThunderPunch does indeed destroy Gyarados (it does 77.6%-91.6% to the defensive set; although with Intimidate that becomes 51.9%-61.1%), I don't think that one Pokemon is enough to justify using ThunderPunch, especially when it's not even immune to DynamicPunch.

Wow these calcs really suck i thought it would have at least 2HKO'd with SR

Furthermore, by running so much Speed, you really lose out on investing in Machamp's (mediocre) bulk, and you might as well run the Substitute set so you can take hits behind its safety.

I don't think you lose out so much bulk, its still bulky enough to take a strong neutral hit .

If you want to get past Jellicent, you'd probably want to try Sub-Bulk Up set:

Machamp @ Leftovers
248 HP / 216 Atk / 44 SDef | Adamant
~ Bulk Up
~ Substitute
~ Dynamic Punch
~ Payback


EVs allows Substitute to stay intact against a Jellicent's scald 87% of the time, while Machamp 2HKOs jelli with +0 Payback. After +1 Bulk Up, Sub would stay intact against a Gliscor's EQ 75% of the time. +1 Payback is a 4HKO on Gliscor, so you would want to depend on DPunch's confusion to get past Gliscor (or boost up to +2).

Well if its raining scald breaks the sub more likely and you can't get a sub in front of it. You would also need quite some luck to get past gliscor.
.

Oh Life Orb is imo not that bad of an option. sure it sucks away its bulk, but you can OHKO Gliscor after SR and kill DNite with Ice Punch+Bullet Punch even through Multi Scale.
 
How did Machamp fall to UU? It absolutely decimates with DynamicPunch. I can see it being UU with just Guts+Close Combat, but it is almost impossible to switch into it. Even if you resist fighting, confusion will destroy you. Ghost types can't do much either, as Payback gets them easily. I've killed a Bronzong in 3 turns without getting touched at all. Watching the opponent kill itself is so fun.

Machamp is easily one of the best pokemon in UU, and still up there in OU. Conkeldurr has nothing against the original.
 
I think Banded Dynamich Punch with Paralyze support really put's a number on defensive teams. Maybe with status healer of some sort incase Machamp gets burned.
 
I tried a speccially defensive Champ in UU and he worked great in conjunction with Curse Baton Pass (via Umbreon). In OU I would only use Champ over Conk on HO teams,with screens up,Substitute,and of course No Guard DynamicPunch. The Pokemon you choose really just depend on your style of play and whether or not you have the team support to handle a certain Pokemon. Heck,I used Aggron in Ubers once and he was actually useful.
 
I honestly don't understand why people keep complaining about the encore nerf. I mean, how many people are actually stupid enough to stay in after being encored??
 
I honestly don't understand why people keep complaining about the encore nerf. I mean, how many people are actually stupid enough to stay in after being encored??

In some battle situations it can be of advantage to stay in now (more often than you might think) while being locked into a move for 5-8 turns was never a good idea.
 
Currenly using Substitute + 3 Attacks, with No Guard, and i suggest to carry both Ice Punch and Stone Edge. While it may seem redundant, it can still kill Gengar (Ice Punch breaks the Substitute and gets Disabled, then Stone Edge on Shadow Ball), but has also coverage on Volcarona, Zapdos, Landorus, Gliscor, Tornadus, Dragonite and many others. Close Combat @ Choice Band + Guts is great too, i'll try it
 
i suggest to carry both Ice Punch and Stone Edge

I've done this with the standard 4 attacks set and it's worked surprisingly well. I found that I was never using Payback, because of its 5th gen nerf (no longer deals double damage after a switch in) and because anything I used it on could just burn or KO it anyway. Besides, the surprise value helped me out a lot -- I've gotten a lot of KO's simply because the opponent didn't think I was running Ice Punch.
 
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