Pokémon Malamar

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KhosroTheGreat

KhosroTheGreat

The Trick Room Malamar with Fling I find really interesting, and you can always Baton Pass onto it. However, as a sweeper, is it better to go for bulk (252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Atk) or Pace and Power (252 Speed/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def)? The place I battle at has a no legendaries, so I'm asking not just for online battling but against my friends too. What Nature is best? I'm assuming that movepool should be:
Psycho Cut, Superpower and Topsy-Turvy, but should I use Foul Play or Night Slash? Is Hypnosis worth it? I used it on my 1st Malmar and it was very luck-dependant but if it went my way, then it was instant win.

Basically is Bulky Physical Sweeper better than the other options? And what item should I use? Leftovers? Sitrus Berry? A plate? a gem?

also, you might find it interesting that I though that T-T just cancels out stat changes i.e. +2-2=0, then I figured out that it actually reverses them i.e +2 = -2
 

Pyronide

so I am using Malamar on my team and I am EV training it right now. I put 252 into Speed but I was wanting to make a more bulky attacker so I have both of those stats at 100 right now... what would be better to put the rest into HP or ATK or would it be better to put it completely evenly at 128??
 
WhinoTheRhino

WhinoTheRhino

In my opinion bulky attacker Malamar is best with 252 HP and 252 ATK. But if you already have 252 SPE then I would just put the rest in ATK. That would kinda ruin the point of bulky attacker though...
 
S0L1D G0LD

S0L1D G0LD

Pyronide said:
so I am using Malamar on my team and I am EV training it right now. I put 252 into Speed but I was wanting to make a more bulky attacker so I have both of those stats at 100 right now... what would be better to put the rest into HP or ATK or would it be better to put it completely evenly at 128??
Click to expand...
Malamar should not have spped values.

Sorry.

Unless its a small amount to speed creep shit,.
 
thepotatoofepic

thepotatoofepic

Used in DOUBLE BATTLES ONLY adamant contrary malamar with lefties 252 atk 252 def 4 hp simple beam superpower foul play swagger (yea he gets simple beam)
 
WhinoTheRhino

WhinoTheRhino

If you're going to use malamar in doubles how could you not use topsy-turvy? Topsy-turvy can turn your allies draco meteor or overheat into a +2 in SpA.
 
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technomancer

My current set:
Malamar @ Leftovers / Assault Vest
Trick Room
Superpower
Night Slash
Rock Slide

Nature: -Speed/+Atk (Brave)

EVs are specially bulky, HP, and some attack. Unfortunately Pokemon showdown is down right now so I don't have the exact numbers handy, but your defense is outstanding after one superpower, so why invest in it?

-Dafu? Rock slide?
  • Rock slide is awesome. It hits Togekiss, Dragonite, Gyrodos, and other flying mons that resist Superpower super effectively, often KOing with one boost and almost always KOing after 1 resisted superpower. It flinches in trick room as well (bonus!). We are hitting Fighting and Poison with Superpower instead of Psychic for the boost 90% of the time. Many of these Pokemon will switch in, expecting to outspeed you and resisting the move you rely on, and find themselves getting set up on and swept aside.
  • Volcarona forces you out without Rock Slide.
  • Nobody expects the inquisition.
-Why trick room?
  • Trick room allows Malamar to avoid being outsped by things that kill it, such as but not limited to: Any dragon with Draco Meteor, most faeries, scarf bugs (4x weak to u-turn >_>), Volcorona, etc.
  • Trick room allows Malamar to absorb Thunder Wave and not particularly be miffed.
  • Malamar usually lasts at least 4/5 turns.
  • -Speed nature underspeeds a ton of mons, including 0 speed Tyranitar, and Malamar doesn't mind most of the slower, bulky mons switching in to eat Superpowers.
-But can you set it up?
  • You should always set up Trick Room vs. a faster poke that you can take 1.5 hits from. The other poke will attack, and you can either trick room or hit back. If you Trick Room, you go first from now on and you still get the hit in first thing next turn, making it strictly better unless the other Pokemon has priority.
-What if he dies?
  • My team runs specs Jolteon, Accelgor, Gengar and Dragonite. I have a problem with Trick Rooming myself once in about 50 games because I rely on Wish/Protect Vaporeon to stall it out if I run into trouble and Malamar is pretty tanky with a defensive spread and leftovers, meaning I don't immediately die. Keep a poke with protect around or another slow pokemon just for this purpose.
-What if they protect stall you?
  • You should get a boost or two and possibly a whole Pokemon out of this, and you can always set up again. Toxic/Protect is reliable against this setup because it relies on keeping your poke in for a long time, but most people make the mistake of switching in a pokemon that doesn't kill you in Trick Room.
-Counters?
  • Scizor can switch in on the trick room and OHKO any set not running flamethrower with U-turn. Can also often revenge with Bullet Punch after a ghost or something threatening.
  • Talonflame can revenge effectively with Brave Bird's priority if you're not too boosted.
  • Any bulky bug type is generally the same, but most bugs are either awful or can't stand up to a rock slide.
  • Skarmory can switch in and whirlwind, but takes a lot of damage.
  • Toxic/Protect, as mentioned above, can deny you a lot of turns and wear you down.
  • Ghost types prevent you from setting up effectively but take a ton of damage from Night Slash.
  • Defensive fairy types are good switch-ins too, resisting Fighting and Dark and usually running potent special attacks.
Very few answers exist with one boost and trick room set up. I think this guy is a sure OU mon, and it's punched holes in all sorts of teams that I've come across.
 
Quixim

Quixim

I like how utterly it checks Aegislash - turns all of those boosts into negatives with one move, and it can't king's shield or you get a free swords dance. It's a pity it doesn't get close combat, although that would likely make it an unstoppable juggernaut.

Question: How does Psych Up work with Contrary? Will the copied stat changes be reversed?
 
N7 Grimstar

N7 Grimstar

Quixim said:
I like how utterly it checks Aegislash - turns all of those boosts into negatives with one move, and it can't king's shield or you get a free swords dance. It's a pity it doesn't get close combat, although that would likely make it an unstoppable juggernaut.

Question: How does Psych Up work with Contrary? Will the copied stat changes be reversed?
Click to expand...
It still dies in one hit to a Swords Danced Sacred Sword...
 
Lady Valkyrie

Lady Valkyrie

I doubt this will be a poke we see on every team. It doesn't have any resistances, only a psychic immunity and looks like a hard fit for teams. It's 4x Bug weakness outside of U-Turn doesn't seem too crippling and Fairy moves don't seem to have a lot of distribution outside of their typing.

I think it'll find a niche in UU with Contrary, Topsy-Turvey and its ability to spam Superpower though I'd like to see it make it in OU. It's speed is the real issue though, I had a look at its calcs and there are plenty of dangerous pokes that can outspeed and get it with U-Turn:
Mienshao, Yanmega, Glisor, Crobat, Mew, Celebi, Xatu, Flygon, Jirachi, Infernape, Staraptor, Whimsicott, Hydreigon, Tornadus, Thundurus-T and Landorus-T .

But as long as your opponent isn't running a Scarf or a speed positive nature (which I doubt you'd do either of these with Malmar), you can get past:
Tyranitar (Mega too), Cloyster, Politoed, Skarmory, Breloom, Gourgeist, Gogoat, Vaporeon, Scizor, Chesnaught and Magnezone .

Not great, but going off the Showdown simulator, you only need 240 EVs to get past Max Speed Mega-T-Tar. Minimum, 2+ Superpower though otherwise T-Tar will likely survive.

Sucker Punch looks impossible to get on it until Pokebank, Gastrodon and Huntail get it from the Move Tutor in HGSS. It could still get Recover from Milotic (Pokebank) or Gatrodon (Friend Safari), so there may be hope yet.
 
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Patrick1088

Patrick1088

I love the concept of malamar but i do feel that it will be a solid uu poke.

Also i saw somebody posted above a set with assault vest and trick room. Assault vest lets you only use attacking moves so that set wont work.

I like the idea of assault vest plus superpower turning malamar into a great tank but the lack of lefties really hurts...
 
iQs__

iQs__

I don't even know why this pokemon can be seen as a threat without a Trick Room already on the field. You put Trick Room in his moveset so he wastes 1 turn to set it up. As much as I hate to say, 1 STAB from a sweeper, be it Physical or Special is the end for this mon.

I met it a few times, but the only thing it can do is a superpower and that's it. It hardly deals any damage for crying out loud. 92 attack in this current metagame is like a bite from a mosquito, and you should pray that he has a chance to do it.

Like this evening, someone had it out on the field against my Charizard. He did not switch out so I assume he had Rock Slide. But poor that little Malamar, 1 Flamethrower from my Charizard Y and it just vanishes ... Another match, he took one TBolt from my Spec Magnezone, also vanished. With no resistance I don't even understand why you guys use it in the first place.

Maybe a Bulky Malamar will work, but he will need time to get up that attack before actually dealing damage to the opponent.
 
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Pyronide

iQs__ said:
I don't even know why this pokemon can be seen as a threat without a Trick Room already on the field. You put Trick Room in his moveset so he wastes 1 turn to set it up. As much as I hate to say, 1 STAB from a sweeper, be it Physical or Special is the end for this mon.

I met it a few times, but the only thing it can do is a superpower and that's it. It hardly deals any damage for crying out loud. 92 attack in this current metagame is like a bite from a mosquito, and you should pray that he has a chance to do it.

Like this evening, someone had it out on the field against my Charizard. He did not switch out so I assume he had Rock Slide. But poor that little Malamar, 1 Flamethrower from my Charizard Y and it just vanishes ... Another match, he took one TBolt from my Spec Magnezone, also vanished. With no resistance I don't even understand why you guys use it in the first place.

Maybe a Bulky Malamar will work, but he will need time to get up that attack before actually dealing damage to the opponent.
Click to expand...


So then what about a setup mon similar to a weather setup? Trick Room and Baton pass or U-Turn come to mind... would this be plausible?
 

chuavechito

Malamar
Leftovers
Contrary
252 HP 252 SpD 4 Atk
Careful (+ SpD - SpA)
- Superpower
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I have been testing a team arround this build. Is nice as fuck. Sleep Talk becomes a 50% Superpower by giving up the secondary attacking move to hit over Ghosts. Toxic Spike support is used as a secondary win condition over Ghosts.
 
N7 Grimstar

N7 Grimstar

farranpoison said:
Not unless Malamar uses Topsy Turvy, which switches all positive boosts to negative and vice versa, which is what he was getting at.
Click to expand...
In which case the guy who posted after you was right, all they would have to do is Shadow Sneak.

Malamar is a situational check to Aegislash, and not much else. Malamar can be as played around in that scenario as Aegislash can.
 
SwoopsTII

SwoopsTII

Y'know I'm curious...does baton passing any stat changes to Malamar reverse them? I assumed it did but I was wondering if anyone here could confirm that.
 
SwoopsTII

SwoopsTII

Oh damn...Malamar is totally getting a spot on my team. I wanted to have as many options for SD/Speed Boost baton pass on my team as possible but I thought Malamar would just waste a slot. Not even close to the best user of it, but glad to know it actually can use it. Thanks for the info!
 
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