Mamoswine's not really fast, but 110/80/60 defenses aren't terrible for a physical attacker, similar to Doryuuzu no?
Infact, better than Doryuuzu!
Infact, better than Doryuuzu!
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Mamoswine
- Thread starter Not Scicky
- Start date
And Thick Fat enhances them! Ok, maybe it's not a huge deal but it's better than Snow Cloak damnit.
Good ol' Nape. Cause with thick fat mamo can definately stop nape. lol
Of course both thick fat and icicle drop would be nice, but I would rather have icicle drop. As an offensive pokemon, mamoswine would much rather have a reliable STAB to hit flying types that resist fire. Most OU fire mons have other ways to own mamo anyways.
Icicle drop can also KO @#$@ breloom too. :)
Of course both thick fat and icicle drop would be nice, but I would rather have icicle drop. As an offensive pokemon, mamoswine would much rather have a reliable STAB to hit flying types that resist fire. Most OU fire mons have other ways to own mamo anyways.
Icicle drop can also KO @#$@ breloom too. :)
Being able to resist stuff and have a neutrality tonithers is way better than that move whose secondary effect will rarely work. Breloom switches in on any of Swine's attack and then gets ko'ed by priority.
But the good players know this so to each his own.
I's not the secondary effect, it's the MASSIVE rise in BP compared to ice shard.
Ice shard does around 77.3% - 91.7% to a subpunching loom. So it can switch in after a KO and fire off a spore. Of course, I use jolly LO mamo, so maybe that's why.
So how does thick fat help mamo do his job? Starmie and infernape can still KO mamo, with surf and CC. The only pokemons who rely on fire to beat mamo are heatran and zapdos. Scarftran does 82% - 97% to thick fat mamo. And zapdos can still do 57.6% - 68.1% with heat wave. Better, but still uncomfortably high.
Ice shard does around 77.3% - 91.7% to a subpunching loom. So it can switch in after a KO and fire off a spore. Of course, I use jolly LO mamo, so maybe that's why.
So how does thick fat help mamo do his job? Starmie and infernape can still KO mamo, with surf and CC. The only pokemons who rely on fire to beat mamo are heatran and zapdos. Scarftran does 82% - 97% to thick fat mamo. And zapdos can still do 57.6% - 68.1% with heat wave. Better, but still uncomfortably high.
Finally the ice age mammoth gets a decent ability... Thick fat.. Tho its only on Dream World.
I could see a potential rise in swine's ussage due to a large ammount of new dragons in this gen.
Bad thing is he still has poor defenses and technician scizor/brelloom (with enough speed EVs) are pretty much swine's nemesis being able to OHKO him.
I could see a potential rise in swine's ussage due to a large ammount of new dragons in this gen.
Bad thing is he still has poor defenses and technician scizor/brelloom (with enough speed EVs) are pretty much swine's nemesis being able to OHKO him.
How are you gonna hit him with an ice type move if he's faster anyway?
Also you're talking about 1v1, how the hell is he gonna beat Starmie or any of those other pokemon you named with snow cloak and alittle bit more power in a move resisted by some of the pokemon you named?
I don't mean to be rude when I say this, but you're wrong. I like the move, bit it's just not as good as Thick Fat :/
But I hope we get both on them. That'd be cool.
But I hope we get both on them. That'd be cool.
Lol Nubbins. Who can get mad at you with a name like that?
Lol anyway, because I truly like more options, more resistances, if you're a smart player you can utilize resistances and wear your opponent down with smart move picks. Snorlax is a freaking beast because of this, not saying Mamoswine has bulk like Snorlax, but Snorlax has more power and endurance because of this ability.
It means if your opponent isn't as good with damage calcs, they might think their fire move is gonna knock you out, only to get Stab Earthquaked, but that is just one specific example. Whoever said boltbeam isn't as popular clearly is incorrect and underestimating that combo will get you knocked out. It just gives you way more chances to come in on things.
Mamoswine will never hit Breloom first without priority. So a little more power won't help if you can't hit first and you can get shut down, so then you switch. Comboing a Stone Edge/EQ/etc with Ice Shard gives you more of a chance of knocking stuff out. That stronger move won't touch Breloom anyway without Breloom switching, in which case, EQ/SE etc plus Ice Shard can donthe same thing.
Lol anyway, because I truly like more options, more resistances, if you're a smart player you can utilize resistances and wear your opponent down with smart move picks. Snorlax is a freaking beast because of this, not saying Mamoswine has bulk like Snorlax, but Snorlax has more power and endurance because of this ability.
It means if your opponent isn't as good with damage calcs, they might think their fire move is gonna knock you out, only to get Stab Earthquaked, but that is just one specific example. Whoever said boltbeam isn't as popular clearly is incorrect and underestimating that combo will get you knocked out. It just gives you way more chances to come in on things.
Mamoswine will never hit Breloom first without priority. So a little more power won't help if you can't hit first and you can get shut down, so then you switch. Comboing a Stone Edge/EQ/etc with Ice Shard gives you more of a chance of knocking stuff out. That stronger move won't touch Breloom anyway without Breloom switching, in which case, EQ/SE etc plus Ice Shard can donthe same thing.
I feel so loved :D
IMO, the main problem with thick fat is that mamoswine's resistances still blows. With thick fat, it's still weak to steel, fighting, grass, and water. All of which are pretty popular offensive types. Most good players would probably also be aware that fire moves won't automatically KO thick fat mamo.
Icicle drop isn't for breloom. It's to hit switch-ins expecting an EQ.
IMO, the main problem with thick fat is that mamoswine's resistances still blows. With thick fat, it's still weak to steel, fighting, grass, and water. All of which are pretty popular offensive types. Most good players would probably also be aware that fire moves won't automatically KO thick fat mamo.
Icicle drop isn't for breloom. It's to hit switch-ins expecting an EQ.
Ill let Avalanche do that job of hitting a switch in. But ya I know it is all about options, everyone has their own opinion on it and that's what's good about diversity. I just like having a useful effect, instead of some hailstorm specific effect.
If it's options we're talking about, I would rather mamoswine get another useable move. It's movepool is ridiculously barren. Besides the assorted and underwhelming ice moves, the only useable moves are EQ, stone edge and superpower. And maybe double-edge. It's enough, but we're talking about options here. :P
Lol oh most definitely i agree, but I mean the options we are working with, the ones we have on the table.
No, all of the options are on the table, I just like the chance of having more.
So like instead of that new move and a rediculous never used ability, I'd rather have an ability where i stand a better chance against two typings, and still get to use moves to outplayed my opponent.
So like instead of that new move and a rediculous never used ability, I'd rather have an ability where i stand a better chance against two typings, and still get to use moves to outplayed my opponent.
I'm looking at the OU tiers right now and the only pokemon thick fat really helps against is zapdos. There's also gen 5, but I don't feel like looking through them.
One the other hand, icicle drop gives mamo a better matchup against defensive celebi and shaymin, togekiss, hippowdon, gliscor, and gyarados.
One the other hand, icicle drop gives mamo a better matchup against defensive celebi and shaymin, togekiss, hippowdon, gliscor, and gyarados.
The way I'm seeing it is Zapdos is not the only one, when it comes down to it unpredicted stuff just happens, and you never know when a situation will come up when Thick Fat is very useful, saving as much health is very good IMO. I just see it as more useful, more safe, more reliable. Avalanche does very good damage, and since Mamo is a slow pokemon, it is guaranteed to get the double power, which is stronger than the move in question, Icicle Drop.
Agree that Thick Fat has less utility compared to Icicle Drop. BoltBeam is a good combination but not many get it, and looking at those who use it - Starmie, Suicune, uh Electivire.. with or without this new ability Mamoswine is not getting out of the match-up alive. About using it as a pivot, I don't really see what Thick Fat brings in terms of this. The point of resisting Electric AND Ice is to shut down offensive mons which utilize that combination, something Mamoswine isn't that great at. Resisting both doesn't help much because you're only switching in on one move and GTFOing the next turn anyway.
Icicle Drop on the other hand is what Mamoswine has been screaming for, not a neutrality to Fire and a resistance to Ice. It needs that base power to not do lol damage at Celebi, Hippowdon and stuff. I really think it would be much more beneficial. Besides that, Mamoswine looks to play a pretty major role this generation, with the resurgence of new, powerful Dragon types.
EDIT: Yo base 80 speed is not slow. Not like you'll be investing in anything apart from Atk and Spe anyway.
Icicle Drop on the other hand is what Mamoswine has been screaming for, not a neutrality to Fire and a resistance to Ice. It needs that base power to not do lol damage at Celebi, Hippowdon and stuff. I really think it would be much more beneficial. Besides that, Mamoswine looks to play a pretty major role this generation, with the resurgence of new, powerful Dragon types.
EDIT: Yo base 80 speed is not slow. Not like you'll be investing in anything apart from Atk and Spe anyway.
i think icicle drop would be better
because with the release of drought ninetales sun is gonna become more popular
and if sunny day is active thick fat mamoswine still has a pretty good chance to be 1hkoed
by Zapdos's heatwave after LO recoil and one layer of spikes
If you're gonna keep him in against zapdos that is (which i don't think you should)
and snow cloak is a pretty handy ability too
I won quite a lot of matches just cause a scizor missed my mamoswine lol
because with the release of drought ninetales sun is gonna become more popular
and if sunny day is active thick fat mamoswine still has a pretty good chance to be 1hkoed
by Zapdos's heatwave after LO recoil and one layer of spikes
If you're gonna keep him in against zapdos that is (which i don't think you should)
and snow cloak is a pretty handy ability too
I won quite a lot of matches just cause a scizor missed my mamoswine lol
I don't get what Icicle Drop would do against a Sunny team so that I feel is irrelevant, especially since Thick Fat only helps against that even more but sure.
To shimrit: correct me if I'm wrong, dragonite has 80 right? That's slow IMO. I understand the usefulness of it. I personally like Thick Fat. You find yourself in the craziest of conditions in my opinion, I find it the more useful one to go with.
some of the most effective sunny day sweepers are grass (exeggutor tangrowth shifty etc)
and im trying to say that even with thick fat mamo cant take a lot of fire attacks
Nah I got it but most of those pokemon would KO Mamo even if you hit it, I'd rather switch to a counter instead, but this'll get too specific, all I'm sayin is Thick Fat is the more sufficient choice, just like more damage seems to be what you guys like. I like Avalanche, priority and Thick Fat.
Fat bitches need love too.