Manaphy uber?

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Amy

Hi, I am not sure if this question belongs here but you can move it if it isn't.

I was battling someone on Gamefaqs. The rules of the battle were standard, no ubers. When I sent out Manaphy, the other person accused me of using an uber. I am pretty sure that Manaphy is not uber... with stats like that, and its predictable moveset. So my question is.. was Manaphy declared an uber?
 
Manaphy was never declared officially Uber or Standard; however, the general consensus leans toward Standard.
 
IMO, standard
because most things in uber can destroy it
of course, somebody wil come here and disagree with me, but thats my opinion

you should make this a poll. i'm curious as to what the majority of people think of manaphy
 
IMO, standard
because most things in uber can destroy it
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That's irrelevant. What matters is how well it does in standards, and it does well enough there to merit considering a possible push into the uber tier.
 
It's in debate whether we declare it uber or not. It's leaning more towards uber at the moment, though
 
forum posts relating to it:

Awesome, looks like we can ban all the borderlines except the follow three:

1. Celebi
2. Shaymin
3. Manaphy

Let's talk about them.
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I think pretty much everyone can agree that Shaymin is perfectly playable, or at worst worthy of testing.
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i dont see shaymin as being even remotely usable in standard play, to be honest. granted its not as simple as him being 'a bad celebi' as so many have made him out to be, but he is not a solid pokemon i dont think. he gets access to a good move... and thats it. granted pure grass has nice resistances, but this thing honestly just doesnt DO anything. heal belling seems a bit less useful this generation, and he has essentially zero type coverage.

celebi is a tough one id say, and i havent played d/p enough to have an opinion one way or the other, so ill ask this question: can you honestly tell me that celebi got a boost in usefulness larger than tyranitar did this generation? celebi was fine last generation, and since EVERYTHING got better, i dont see how celebi became harder to counter or somethign like that. granted there is no more dugtrio, but the fact that pursuit is being used pretty much all the time makes celebi trickier to use. if i had to sway one way, id say it should stay in standard.

manaphy seems kind of scary in some ways. kinda because of the fact that he gets tail glow and owns shit up, kinda because of the fact that grass knot does absolutely nothing to him, but primarily because im scared of his ability. i havent seen any manaphies on wifi, but jesus christ, rain dance/rest/ice beam or something/surf with wet rock looks absolutely retarded. can heal 100% of its health whenever it wants to, and has the defenses to not have to do it every turn. oh, and rain dance makes gyarados funkier and nullifies sandstream? i think people are a little too OMG TAIL GLOW to realize how potential crazy this thing could actually be.
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ho-oh is a no brainer. sacred fire is physical, his stats are off the fucking chart. come on, 106 base hp and 154 base spdef coupled with 130 base attack and a respectable 90 speed? no.

latios makes salamence look retarded. awesome typing, levitate, better speed, 130 base spatk + draco meteor, a more balanced special movepool and recover. lets not forget calm mind? how are you going to kill it? nothing can switch in that can do any damage whatsoever, and you surely arent going to ice beam it i doubt that will even 2hko. if you are going to ban darkrai, this thing has to be banned.

i mentioned tail glowless rain dance manaphy in the strategy thread, nobody paid attention to me i dont think. i think it potentially could be a pain in the ass. even without taking advantage of hydration, 101 hp sub tail glow manaphy doesnt sound like something most teams can handle
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About Shaymin, I think it is the epitome of what a standard Pokemon is. Good, but in no way broken. Seed Flare is kind of what lets it stand out, and it's held back by shaky accuracy and horrid attacking type. It's safer than Celebi due to lack of a Pursuit weakness, but I personally like Tangrowth a whole lot better.
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I think it would be good to allow Shaymin, Celebi, and Manaphy at the start... recognizing that Shaymin and Celebi will most likely be permanent fixtures on the standard scene while Manaphy will likely have to be banned to ubers after a respectable testing period.
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there was more debate on IRC but the logs are on a different computer. an argument i remember was "what do you send out against it besides thunderbolt blissey and ludicolo?" and the fact that grass knot does jack shit to it
 
Wow, I really consider Manaphy not an Uber, its stats and movepool looks fine for me, of course Manaphy its useful in Ubers because of Kyogre's Drizzle that makes the perfect combo with its Ability so it can freely Full Restore its life with Rest oO and cause massive damage with its double STABed Surf.

Tail Glow, Surf, Ice Beam, Grass Rope @ Lefties gets owned by T.Wave Cresselia/Blissey, Sing Blissey, Toxic/Roar Vaporeon (lol oO?), SpecsSecptile, CB/CSHeracross, etc, etc, it isn't that scary for me :S

If the problem is that after a Tail Glow it becomes so hard to take out, then Garchomp is also an Uber, after a Swords Dance it KOs things like crazy

Rain Dance, Rest, Surf, Ice Beam - This set is even easier to take out, but if you hide it until the late-game its full potential would be seen.
CM Cune (Its Free Setup for Cune and then it Roars it away), CM Raikou, CM Blissey, CM Celebi and I guess every Pokemon with Calm Mind and a SE Move deal with it easily.
 
why he should be uber: hydration resting (can be done 10 times)
tail glow

why he should be ou:
not one extremely good stat(s), weak to semi-common attacks.

all i can think of quickly
 
Funny thing is that one of the arguments against Celebi becoming uber is that "recover got nerfed" when Manaphy has something ten times better with equally good stats.
 
Blissey and Cresselia are to beware of Manaphy. Switch in on a Tail Glow, and Surf is around a 1-2HKO I believe. Cresselia really can't do a thing to it though, while Blissey can TBolt

EDIT: Hello 400th post................
 
Manaphy seems to be borderline Uber/OU at the moment... I've only ever come across one or two and they always showed up after I'd set up my sweeper so I never got to see what they could do (OHKO 'em both times) =/

Rain Dance Rest sounds scary though. Basically a version of Restalk Milotic where you can pick which move to use.
 
LocoUser said:
Blissey and Cresselia are to beware of Manaphy. Switch in on a Tail Glow, and Surf is around a 1-2HKO I believe. Cresselia really can't do a thing to it though, while Blissey can TBolt
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I believe the argument is that Cresselia/Blissey can survive one hit, then status Manaphy and make it manageable for the rest of your team.

However:

1) You're probably sacrificing Blissey or Cresselia to do this. Note that you need a status-using special wall on your team in the first place to do this.
2) Hydration foils this anyway if your opponent has rain active, and as good as Hydration is you'd be foolish not to run a Rain Dance-based team with Manaphy.
3) Alakazam could do this to Mewtwo in RBY and we'd sure as hell never consider RBY Mewtwo not insanely uber.

"Manaphy's stats are all average!" What's wrong with its stats? Are Rampardos and Mantine more uber than Manaphy because they have one really high stat? Its defenses are well-above average, it has a good STAB move and Tail Glow. Pure Water? I don't know what you guys are smoking, but pure Water is a pretty damn good defensive typing. "Bulky Water" ring a bell? Shrugging off Grass Knot is icing on the cake. Surf/Ice Beam/Grass Knot is all the type coverage you need.

As for the comparison to Garchomp, Garchomp has more glaring weaknesses. Sure, Outrage kicks some ass, but they can't just fire it off willy-nilly like Manaphy can Surfing people (or Garchomp can DClaw itself) or it's liable to get locked in against a counter pokemon and instantly die unless you're successfully late-game sweeping. And people are more prepared to defend physical than special threats, since there are many more physical threats in the metagame. Garchomp doesn't shrug off status nearly as easily. Garchomp only wins in the "goes 100% against the 299 Crowd instead of 50/50 like Manaphy" department. But you know what? Direct comparisons are dumb anyway, since Garchomp and Manaphy don't have much in commin aside hurting crap. This isn't a Garchomp discussion.

As a firm supporter of banning every one of Mew's friends anyway, Manaphy would punch Celebi in the mouth and steal its lunch money.
 
This is the first time in along time where i am close to thinking that something should be banned. It does not quite put together the whole package

-tail glow,surf,ice beam,grass knot

-tail glow,rest,rain dance,surf

-tail glow,rest,ice beam/grass knot,surf

We are going to ignore the sets with out tail glow because they can be stop blissey or cresselia easily.It is tail glow that makes Manaphy special.These are the questions that need to be asked

1 After one tail glow what happens?Can Manaphy be counter constantly?


2.How many different pokemon can constantly counter Manaphy?


3.Are these pokemon an active part of the metagame,and do those pokemon greatly have change their moveset to counter it thus making them less effective over all.
 
woah woah woah, chaos -- are you saying Jirachi is a definite usable in Standard play, or is he going to the bin (uber demotion)?
 
Manaphy is difficult to make a call on. If we call it banned to ubers, what can it really do there? Sure it can tail glow up, or abuse Kyogre's Drizzle, but then things like Latios can just pack Thunder, and kick its little blue ass back to its egg.

But then again, it just rapes up Standard, with no real counters. After a tail glow, it rapes any effective special wall into oblivion. Hell, if its abusing Rain Dance Hydration, then even Statusing it wont stop it for more than a turn.
 
If we call it banned to ubers, what can it really do there?
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It doesn't matter, uber is not meant to be balanced. Deoxys-E is possibly the shittiest uber but no one cares and wants to let it into standard for merely that reason.
 
Surgo said:
It doesn't matter, uber is not meant to be balanced. Deoxys-E is possibly the shittiest uber but no one cares and wants to let it into standard for merely that reason.
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Ah, quite true. To prove your point, i had forgotten about Deoxys-E :P :P :P
 
nobody plays Ubers anyways, so its all about making the Standard metagame as balanced as possible. manaphy is dank and all, but we understand by now that it is very very good. as long as we get some testing and we dont just ban immediately, i'm alright with manaphy getting relegated to the Penalty Box. and by the way, Surgo, Deoxys-E was not the worst Advance uber. Wynaut was the worst advance uber. ;)
 
Well, i wouldnt say no one plays ubers, but i have to say that i agree with shoving Manaphy into a sort of purgatory until we make a decision about its permanent status.
 
Netbattle let teams with Wynaut play as a non-uber team. I don't think it showed up as an uber...did it? (Don't quote me)
 
The only real counters to Tail Glow Manaphy are CM Blissey, Ludicolo and CM Raikou, but that doesnt make manaphy that hard to handle. Based on my experience on wifi with them they are easier to deal with than people make them seem, Tail Glow Manaphies have no form of recovery and can only switch in so often they also have no form of healing status which really take their toll on manaphy and the manaphies with rain dance dont normally have tail glow and even if they do then they dont have the great type coverage in their moveset, in my opinion Manaphy really should be left in standard
 
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