Marowak (Update)

[umbarsc]

<p>Double-Edge is Marowak's most reliable attack, doing solid damage to everything that isn't Rock, Steel, or Ghost-type. However, Ghosts are fairly uncommon in UU, and Rock and Steel-types will be reluctant to switch into Marowak for fear of Earthquake, giving Double-Edge useful neutral coverage with his STAB attack.</p>

<p>Marowak's best switch-ins are on Thunder Waves and non-damaging moves like Stealth Rock or Recover. Specifically, Marowak makes an excellent switch-in to Registeel and Chansey, both of which give Marowak free switch-ins on moves like Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, and Softboiled. Marowak can OHKO both of them if they don't carry Defense-heavy spreads, and they will be taking heavy amounts of damage regardless. For this reason, carrying a Pokemon that can lure in both Chansey and Registeel is a good idea. Three examples are Yanmega, Roserade, and Espeon. Yanmega with U-turn is a good example because Chansey and Registeel are both all too eager to come in for the opportunity to set up Stealth Rocks and seal Yanmega's fate. Espeon also works for similar reasons. Despite the shared Ice weakness, Roserade has some defensive synergy with Marowak, resisting Water and Grass, which means Marowak and Roserade can switch in against each other's counters.</p>

(just keeping these sections in case I need them later)

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Double-Edge
move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
item: Thick Club
ability: Rock Head
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>The concept of Swords Dancing was never so clear: boost your attack to sky-high levels, then make use of it by ramming your opponent's skull. Earthquake is Marowak's primary attack, which 2HKOs almost every Pokemon in UU that doesn't resist or is not immune to it. Double-Edge will KO the Levitators and Flying-types that are immune to Earthquake, such as Yanmega or Moltres, after a Swords Dance. Rock Slide hits most Flying-types harder, but Double-Edge will usually KO those Pokemon after a Swords Dance anyways. However, Rock Slide will OHKO most of them unboosted (if Stealth Rock is present). Rock Slide is preferred on this set over Stone Edge because it acheives the same KOs after a Swords Dance with better accuracy. However, Stone Edge does more to Pokemon like defensive Altaria and Rotom without a boost, so it's still worth considering.</p>

<p>It is recommended that you run this set with some sort of support to compensate for Marowak's poor Speed stat. Thunder Wave is one option to slow down a team to let Marowak run through. Registeel works well for this role because it resists Ice and Grass, and doesn't have too much trouble with Special Water assaults if it invests heavily in SpD. It can also set up Stealth Rock to support Marowak further. Chansey works similarly. Though it doesn't actually resist Grass, Ice, or Water, those attacks usually come from Special attackers, so Chansey shrugs it off anyways. In addition to Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock, Chansey can also restore its health with Wish, or cure harmful status with Aromatherapy. Slowbro is also a good choice because it resists Water and Ice, though the shared Grass weakness isn't nice. Slowbro's Electric weakness could also give Marowak opportunities to switch in. Slowbro has the added bonus of dealing with Azumarill, whose Aqua Jet can end a Marowak sweep even through paralyis.</p>

<p>Entry hazard support is recommended when using this set for a few reasons. The first reason is that it ensures that Flying-types can't switch in for free on Earthquake, because most will be taking 25% or 50% from Stealth Rock even if they avoid taking damage from Marowak. The second is that it helps against offensive Milotic. Offensive Life Orb Milotic takes 77-91% from unboosted Earthquake, which puts it into Life Orb kill range with Stealth Rock in play, or ensures a OHKO with Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes. The third is that it helps against Slowbro, one of the few Pokemon who can avoid a 2HKO from Earthquake. Defensive Slowbro takes 40-47%, which almost guarantees a 2HKO with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes up.</p>

<p>It's worth noting that Marowak's greatest counter, Milotic, actually loses to this set if it runs less than 52 Speed EVs, which is the amount required to outspeed Jolly Marowak. +2 Earthquake does exactly 100% minimum to 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Milotic, the most defensive available.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Since almost nothing in UU can switch in safely and avoid a 2HKO, the best way to deal with Marowak is to try to predict its moves and send in something faster that can OHKO or severely damage it. However, Milotic is the exception, outspeeding all Marowak with little effort and having the bulk to switch into any move and force Marowak out. For these reasons, pairing Marowak with a bulky Grass-type is recommended to cover his weaknesses to Water and Grass (though their shared Ice weakness is a concern). Venusaur is a good choice because of its bulk and its ability to counter bulky waters. Swords Dance Venusaur and Swords Dance Marowak make a potent physical core which can overwhelm an opposing team's physical walls, especially if paired with Azumarill or Arcanine to cover the Ice weakness. If Venusaur runs a special-based set with Leaf Storm, it draws in Chansey and Registeel which Marowak can use to set up on. Leafeon is another option, working similarly to Swords Dance Venusaur, but is less desirable because its poor Special Defense means it has a harder time setting up against bulky Waters.</p>

(not finished obviously)

[Other Options]

<p>Substitute saves Marowak from status, helps it scout switches, and eases prediction a little. It forces you to give up a coverage move, but Double-Edge is expendable when you have Substitute to help with prediction. However, Marowak has no way of regaining that health without Wish support, which could be a problem if Spikes are up, though it helps that Marowak is resistant to Stealth Rock. Fire Punch hurts Torterra, Leafeon, and Tangrowth, though all three will shrug off the attack if running defensive sets. Bonemerang is Marowak's signiture move, and can be used to break Substitutes. However, the most common users of Substitute, such as Mismagius, Rotom, or Moltres, are all Pokemon that are immune to Earthquake or beats Marowak in some other way, like SubPunch Azumarill.</p>

<p>Outside of those moves, Marowak's movepool is quite limited. ThunderPunch can be used in OU for Gyarados, but its UU uses are extremely limited. Marowak's support movepool is limited to Toxic and Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock is better left to bulkier Pokemon, but Toxic could be used to cripple a bulky Water switch-in, though Milotic actually benefits from the Defense boost. Sing could be used if you're feeling very risky, but it's not recommended.</p>

<p>It should be noted that Marowak is one of the best receivers of Trick Room, both in OU and UU, with his poor Speed stat and monster Attack. If you choose to go this route, be sure to give him a 0 Spe IV and a Brave nature, and pair him with a couple of Trick Room Pokemon, such as Slowbro or Uxie.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Marowak is a very simple Pokemon to EV for. Max Speed with a Jolly nature is to outspeed Pokemon that Marowak couldn't with an Adamant nature, including minimum Speed Milotic, Blastoise, and Venusaur. With a Swords Dance, Marowak's Attack isn't as important, but he needs all the Speed he can get. And it's not as if 518 Attack with Jolly is something to sneer at.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Marowak is one of UU's more underrated threats. Certainly Marowak has his fair share of problems in UU: bulky waters and Roserade run rampant, he requires quite a bit of team support to function, he has no versatility, his Speed is terrible, and in many ways he is outclassed by the popular Donphan. However, if you can look past these problems, you'll find a physical attacker with a monstrous 518 Attack and above-average physical bulk. His typing allows him to switch in quite easily against walls like Chansey, Registeel, and Regirock, and can beat them all one-on-one with few exceptions. Don't expect him to perform well on any given team, but with the right support he is capable of causing some serious damage.</p>

[Counters]

---

I've done some rearranging to account for the new changes in UU, but I think it's really wordy. I'll go back and trim it some more when I have time.

 

[supermarth64]

Somewhere in the analysis (probably in Opinion), you might want to mention this as a TR sweeper, as it's slow and strong enough for that. The 4 attacks set with Brave and the Speed EVs moved to HP is good enough for that.

 

[MetaNite]

[SET]
name: 4 Attacks
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: Double-edge
item: Thick Club
ability: Rock Head
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Marowak's simplest set. Basically, bring him in on a non-damaging move or one of his few, yet useful, resistances, and inflict pain on the opposing team. UU's bulkiest Pokemon with an Earthquake neutrality, Slowbro, takes 44-52%, enough to 2HKO with Stealth Rock, so it is safe to say Earthquake 2HKOs everything in UU that isn't immune or resistant to it. Stone Edge complements Earthquake nicely, giving Marowak coverage against Flying-types (and the occasional Bug-type), such as Moltres, Crobat, and Altaria. Stone Edge OHKOs all three with their standard sets when Stealth Rock is factored in(does it really need Stealth Rock?). Fire Punch is primarily for Shaymin and Torterra, who can take up to 89% from the attack if it is the offensive version, which is an OHKO with Stealth Rock. If Stealth Rock isn't in play (or you could say 'on the field'), it still puts Shaymin into a tight situation. If Shaymin Rests, it might eat another Fire Punch and be asleep and near dead, and if it attacks, a counter could be sent in, which would force it out before it could use Rest. Double-edge is Marowak's most reliable attack, doing solid damage to everything that isn't Rock, Steel, or Ghost-type. However, Ghosts are uncommon in UU, and Rock and Steel-types will be reluctant to switch into Marowak for fear of Earthquake, giving Double-edge useful neutral coverage with his STAB attack.</p>

<p>Marowak's best switch-ins are on Thunder Waves and non-damaging moves like Stealth Rock or Recover. Specifically, Marowak makes an excellent switch-in to Registeel and Chansey, both of which give Marowak free switch-ins on moves like Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, and Softboiled. Marowak can OHKO both of them if they don't carry Defense-heavy spreads, and they will be taking heavy amounts of damage regardless. For this reason, carrying a Pokemon that can lure in both Chansey and Registeel is a good idea. Three examples are Shaymin, Yanmega, and Espeon. Yanmega with U-turn is a good example because Chansey and Registeel are both all too eager to come in for the opportunity to set up Stealth Rocks and seal Yanmega's fate. Espeon also works because it baits Thunder Wave, but it should be noted that many Espeon carry Substitute, so some Chansey or Registeel may choose to use Seismic Toss or Iron Head instead of Thunder Wave, so it is recommended that you use Espeon without Leftovers, which may lure them into using Thunder Wave(I don't think Marowak minds taking one Seismic Toss or Iron Head). Shaymin works especially well against Chansey, because Chansey generally deal with Shaymin by cycling between Wish and Protect which gives Marowak free switch-ins. Registeel will generally use Ice Punch against Shaymin, giving Marowak a less than ideal opportunity to switch in. However, Shaymin also supports Marowak defensively, resisting both Water and Grass, though, as previously noted, both share an Ice weakness.</p>

<p>Since almost nothing in UU can switch in safely and avoid a 2HKO, the best way to deal with Marowak is to try to predict its moves and send in something faster that can OHKO or severely damage it. Two counters that can switch in on anything, avoid a OHKO, then force Marowak out are bulky Shaymin and Milotic. For these reasons, pairing Marowak with a bulky Grass-type is recommended to cover his weaknesses to Water and Grass (though their shared Ice weakness is a concern), and check Shaymin and the bulky Waters. Roserade is a good choice because it's also Blissey and Registeel bait, and can set up Spikes to help Marowak seal the 2HKO on Slowbro. Shaymin and Venusaur are also fine choices, though Venusaur doesn't have many useful support options, and Shaymin isn't a great counter to opposing Shaymin.</p>

<p>Stealth Rock support is recommended when using this set for a few reasons. The first is that, as noted, it helps Marowak 2HKO 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Slowbro, who takes 44-52% from Earthquake. The second reason is that it ensures that Flying-types can't switch in for free on Earthquake, because most will be taking 25% or 50% even if they avoid taking damage from Marowak. The third is that it helps against offensive Shaymin and Milotic. 4 HP / 0 Def Shaymin takes 76-89% from Fire Punch, which puts it in range of Life Orb recoil killing it with Stealth Rocks most of the time, forcing it to Rest or die. 4 HP / 0 Def (Choice) Milotic takes 94-111% from Earthquake, and Stealth Rock guarantees the OHKO. Life Orb Milotic takes 77-91%, which, like Shaymin, puts it into Life Orb kill range with Stealth Rocks in play.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: Stone Edge / Double-edge
item: Thick Club
ability: Rock Head
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>The concept of Swords Dancing was never so clear: boost your attack to sky-high levels, then make use of it by ramming your opponent's skull. Double-Edge will KO the Levitators and Flying-types that are immune to Earthquake, such as Crobat or Moltres. Stone Edge hits most Flying-types harder, Double-Edge will usually KO those Pokemon after a Swords Dance anyways. However, Stone Edge will OHKO most of them unboosted if Stealth Rocks are present, so it's a toss-up(Stone Edge is unecessary in UU, all it does is gamble your chances with lady luck. What do you kill after a Swords Dance with Stone Edge, that you don't with Double-Edge??). Fire Punch is for Shaymin and the occasional Torterra.</p>

<p>Unlike the previous set, which is played as a hit-and-run Pokemon, this set attempts to sweep the team, and as such it is recommended that you run this set with some sort of support to compensate for Marowak's poor speed. Thunder Wave is one option to slow down a team to let Marowak run through. Registeel works well for this role because it resists Ice and Grass, and doesn't have too much trouble with Special Water assaults if it invests heavily in SpD. It can also set up Stealth Rock to support Marowak further. Chansey works similarly, though it doesn't actually resist Grass, Ice, or Water, but those attacks usually come from Special attackers, so Chansey shrugs it off anyways. In addition to Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock, Chansey can also restore its health with Wish, or cure harmful status with Aromatherapy. Both of these have the added bonus of countering Shaymin. Slowbro is also a good choice because it resists Water and Ice, though the shared Grass weakness isn't nice. Slowbro's Electric weakness could also give Marowak opportunities to switch in. Slowbro has the added bonus of dealing with Azumarill, whose Aqua Jet can end a Marowak sweep even through paralyis.</p>

<p>However, all of these Pokemon bait powerful moves that give Marowak few opportunities to switch in, so it's recommended that you use a third "pivot" Pokemon to give Marowak free switches. Crobat is an excellent example, coming in on Ground, Grass, and Fighting-type moves with ease, then either U-turning on the switch, which is one way to get Marowak in for free, or stay in while the opponent switches in something with an Electric or Rock attack, which also gives Marowak a safe switch-in. Another reason Crobat works well is that it counters the two most prominent Natural Cure Pokemon, Shaymin and Roserade. As previously stated, Yanmega, especially those with U-turn, also works here, though it should be noted that both of these Pokemon are weak to Ice.</p>

Stone Edge is completely uneeded on the Swords Dance set. With the plus 2 boost, every common Flying-type in the UU metagame is OHKOed by Double-Edge. Defensive Altaria and Moltres have a chance to survive, but those chances are completely shattered with Stealth Rock. The other common Flying-types, Crobat, Honchkrow, should be OHKOed regardless.

Why is Marowak still running max speed? In OU, it ran max speed to outrun Suicune, and Milotic. Milotic usually runs more Speed EVs now, and the common walls you'll be hitting (Registeel, Chansey, Steelix) are slow anywho. (44 Speed EVs lets you outspeed min Spe Registeel). If anything, you should focus on your low hit points to survive Close Combats and weak Ice Beams in this weaker metagame.

 

[umbarsc]

I agree that Double-edge should be emphasized more, but you can't really rely on always having up a Swords Dance. If you have a faster Moltres switching in (without Stealth Rocks up), for example, Double-edge will not KO. I put in Rock Slide as an alternative to Stone Edge for the greater accuracy.

I agree that the Speed is a bit excessive. I think the original benchmark was minimum speed Hitmontop, which required 204 Spe EVs, at which point it doesn't seem worth not just maxing Speed.

Edited in other changes.

 

[MetaNite]

The first two sets in the Hitmontop analysis (which I presume to be the most common), the Choice Band and Rapid Spin sets, run enough speed to beat you regardless.

 

[Tano]

i don't get the ev spread... why 164 speed?
what is he supposed to outspeed? blissey?

also why 252 atk with swords dance? 1136 attack stat is useless since you can do the same job with 700-800.


i suggested a bulky marowak with substitute in the Analysis Workshop

also i wanted to submit another one, but the topic now is closed.
it should be like that:

name: Cubone's Mother (OU)
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Fire Punch
item: Thick Club
evs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 140 SpD / 100 Def (the one i tested)
or
evs: 252 HP / 242 Atk / 16 SpD
nature: Adamant

(the substitute is supposed to be cubone xD)


EDIT: 16 attack ev is in order to reach 200 and get 20 instead of 19 from adamant nature bonus (so 2 more points in the stat becouse of Thick Club).
880 instead of ~860 after a swords dance.

 

[Lee]

Double-Edge (capital e)

164 Spe outruns all base 65ers iirc which allows him to beat out a huge list of Pokemon that he wouldn't be able to do so at his natural 126 Spe (Clefable, Weezing, Ampharos, Lapras, Vileplume to throw out a few).

Jolly and a 4/252/252 spread propably be the primary option on the Swords Dance set. It allows you to outrun Blastoise, Milotic, Venusaur, Meganium 80 basers etc which is impossible with an Adamant nature. And lets face it, 518 Atk (1036 after a SD) is more than enough isn't it? I think the only difference is that you lose the outright OHKO on Slowbro after SR (which I admit is pretty big but outrunning Milotic is probably more important).

 

[Tano]

oh, sorry. i was thinking about the OU tier. my bad

 

[Lee]

The problem with any attempt at a bulky Marowak is his lack of Leftovers. And without any speed investment he >will< be taking a lot of hits at that piss poor HP stat so I can't ever see him accomplising the purpose of a bulky Pokemon and hanging around for very long at all.

 

[Tano]

sure, but he will surely take a couple of hits. also his weakness (the speed) is fixed in a baton pass team or in a trick room team.

marowak will always be slow, so the better way to use him is making him bulky (at least this is sure if we are talking about OU, since marowak is not able to outspeed anything there)

 

[umbarsc]

I've edited in the changes, and put up the EVs section.

Does anyone think the EVs section looks a bit cluttered right now? I think it might look better as a list, but I'm still looking for opinions.

 

[Thunda]

list belly drum as an option. +6 stab earthquake is literally enough to ohko an entire team.

 

[Tano]

EDIT: Thunda, +6 attack on marowak? so 3408 attack stat? i think it's useless, since even an 800 attack stat can ohko almost everything (no attack evs marowak after 1 SD has almost 750 attack)



i think that a SubWak set (Cubone's Mother (OU)) should be more visible, maybe with "(OU)" in the name of the set.
EDIT: Gay Dolphin+ told me to post this set here, even if it is for OU, not UU, in order to open just one topic for this analysis.

i tested my set in a OU battle with a random (totally random) team (just marowak instead of my jirachi and ninjask instead of my infernape). that's the log.

Rules: Evasion Clause, OHKO Clause, Sleep Clause, Soul Dew Clause, Species Clause
Neeja sent out Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Kidel sent out Ninjask (lvl 100 Ninjask ?).
Jirachi used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Ninjask lost 20% of its health.
Neeja switched in Donphan (lvl 100 Donphan ?).
Ninjask used Substitute.
Ninjask lost 25% of its health.
Ninjask made a substitute!
Ninjask's leftovers restored its health a little!
Ninjask restored 6% of its health.
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Donphan used Ice Shard.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Ninjask!
Ninjask's substitute faded!
Ninjask used Substitute.
Ninjask lost 25% of its health.
Ninjask made a substitute!
Ninjask's leftovers restored its health a little!
Ninjask restored 6% of its health.
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Donphan used Ice Shard.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Ninjask!
Ninjask's substitute faded!
Ninjask used Substitute.
Ninjask lost 25% of its health.
Ninjask made a substitute!
Ninjask's leftovers restored its health a little!
Ninjask restored 6% of its health.
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Donphan used Ice Shard.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Ninjask!
Ninjask's substitute faded!
Ninjask used Baton Pass.
Kidel switched in Marowak (lvl 100 Marowak ?).
---
[B]Donphan used Ice Shard.
It's super effective!
Marowak lost 20% of its health.
Marowak used Substitute.
Marowak lost 25% of its health.
Marowak made a substitute![/B]
---
[B]Donphan used Ice Shard.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Marowak!
Marowak used Swords Dance.
Marowak's attack was sharply raised.[/B]
---
[B]Donphan used Ice Shard.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Marowak![/B]
Marowak's substitute faded!
Marowak used Earthquake.
Donphan lost 68% of its health.
Donphan's leftovers restored its health a little!
Donphan restored 6% of its health.
---
Donphan used Ice Shard.
It's super effective!
[B]Marowak lost 18% of its health.[/B]
Marowak used Earthquake.
Donphan lost 73% of its health.
Neeja's Donphan fainted.
---
Neeja switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Jirachi used Trick.
Jirachi obtained Thick Club!
Marowak obtained Choice Scarf!
Marowak used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Jirachi lost 117% of its health.
Neeja's Jirachi fainted.
---
Neeja switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Kidel switched in Edward II (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Dragonite used Dragon Dance.
Dragonite's attack was raised.
Dragonite's speed was raised.
---
Dragonite used Dragon Claw.
It's not very effective...
Edward II lost 30% of its health.
Edward II used Swords Dance.
Edward II's attack was sharply raised.
Edward II's leftovers restored its health a little!
Edward II restored 6% of its health.
---
Dragonite used Dragon Claw.
It's not very effective...
Edward II lost 32% of its health.
Edward II used Swords Dance.
Edward II's attack was sharply raised.
Edward II's leftovers restored its health a little!
Edward II restored 6% of its health.
---
Edward II used Bullet Punch.
Dragonite lost 91% of its health.
Dragonite used Dragon Claw.
It's not very effective...
Edward II lost 30% of its health.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
Edward II's leftovers restored its health a little!
Edward II restored 6% of its health.
---
Edward II used Bullet Punch.
Dragonite lost 90% of its health.
Neeja's Dragonite fainted.
Edward II's leftovers restored its health a little!
Edward II restored 6% of its health.
---
Neeja switched in Charizard (lvl 100 Charizard ?).
Edward II used Bullet Punch.
It's not very effective...
Charizard lost 69% of its health.
Charizard used Fire Punch.
It's super effective!
Edward II lost 187% of its health.
Kidel's Edward II fainted.
---
Kidel switched in Gay Fish (lvl 100 Suicune).
Gay Fish is exerting its pressure!
Charizard used Substitute.
Charizard lost 25% of its health.
Charizard made a substitute!
Gay Fish used Calm Mind.
Gay Fish's special attack was raised.
Gay Fish's special defence was raised.
Charizard's Salac Berry raised its speed!
---
Charizard used Earthquake.
Gay Fish lost 15% of its health.
Gay Fish used Surf.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Charizard!
Charizard's substitute faded!
Gay Fish's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gay Fish restored 6% of its health.
---
Charizard used Earthquake.
Gay Fish lost 16% of its health.
Gay Fish used Surf.
It's super effective!
Charizard lost 127% of its health.
Neeja's Charizard fainted.
Gay Fish's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gay Fish restored 6% of its health.
---
Neeja switched in Empoleon (lvl 100 Empoleon ?).
Gay Fish used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Empoleon lost 35% of its health.
Empoleon used Grass Knot.
It's super effective!
Gay Fish lost 28% of its health.
Gay Fish's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gay Fish restored 6% of its health.
Empoleon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Empoleon restored 6% of its health.
---
Gay Fish used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Empoleon lost 34% of its health.
Empoleon used Grass Knot.
It's super effective!
Gay Fish lost 26% of its health.
Gay Fish's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gay Fish restored 6% of its health.
Empoleon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Empoleon restored 6% of its health.
---
Gay Fish used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Empoleon lost 31% of its health.
Empoleon used Grass Knot.
It's super effective!
Gay Fish lost 28% of its health.
Gay Fish's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gay Fish restored 6% of its health.
Empoleon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Empoleon restored 6% of its health.
---
Gay Fish used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Empoleon lost 34% of its health.
Neeja's Empoleon fainted.
Gay Fish's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gay Fish restored 6% of its health.
---
Neeja switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Gay Fish lost 46% of its health.
Kidel's Gay Fish fainted.
---
Kidel switched in Marowak (lvl 100 Marowak ?).
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Marowak used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Jolteon!
Jolteon's substitute faded!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Marowak used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Jolteon!
Jolteon's substitute faded!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Marowak used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Jolteon!
Jolteon's substitute faded!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Marowak used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Jolteon!
Jolteon's substitute faded!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Substitute.
But it failed!
Marowak used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Jolteon lost 118% of its health.
Neeja's Jolteon fainted.
Kidel wins!
Kidel: gg
Neeja: marowak
Neeja: gg
Neeja has left the room.

and please note that i've been tricked by jirachi (so i had to switch on dragonite).
my marowak was able to OHKO also jolteon and empoleon with EQ, and dragonite and charizard too using stone edge.

as you can see, bulky marowak is really useful here, since my substitute absorbed 2 ice shards (that is also a priority move, think about it, my marowak was really fast after ninjask's speed boost).

 

[Thunda]

tangrowth will survive a +2 fire punch then ohko with power whip, iirc. suicune also survives +2 earthquake and will then ohko with surf. the +6 makes a lot of difference, especially as marowak will never make two consecutive swords dances.

and nothing shows your opponent you mean business like a belly drum marowak, it should be at least listed under 'other options', or put as an alternate to swords dance on the dancing set.

 

[Tano]

tangrowth is NU -_-
and he survives after almost every physical attack, even if the physical attacker is deoxys-A.
and my marowak (max hp, 124 def) takes max 77% by power whip, so is never ohkoed.


also, after a belly drum (and you have to be able to do it... marowak is slow), your marowak will have just 50% hp. i don't think it's a good idea.
SD+Sub (Cubone's Mother xD) marowak is strong enough and it's a safer strategy.


about suicune, well... it's a counter. however i think it's pointless, since every pokemon in OU, even blissey, has counters.

 

[shade]

and he survives after almost every special attack, even if the special attacker is deoxys-A.

fire punch is physical.

 

[Tano]

yeah, sorry, i meant physical xD

as you can see my line makes sense only with "physical" instead of "special"


however the fact is that the "Cubone's Mother" set is an OU set. the difference is that an UU marowak should have 164-252 speeed EV in order to outspeed some common UU pokemons. on the other hand, speed on an OU marowak is almost useless, since he could outspeed just pokemons like blissey, dusknoir and bronzong (not a problem thanks to the substitute). in this case, speed is not completely useless, but HP and defenses are more important, in order to make a healty substitute (son), able to resist while marowak dances and attacks, with low speed or baton passed speed boost.

 

[Tano]

edited the ev spread for the OU set

evs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 140 SpD / 100 Def (the one i tested)
or
evs: 252 HP / 242 Atk / 16 SpD
nature: Adamant

16 attack ev is in order to reach 200 and get 20 instead of 19 from adamant nature bonus (so 2 more points in the stat becouse of Thick Club).
880 instead of ~860 after a swords dance.


that's another battle log:

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Soul Dew Clause
Kidel sent out Son Goku (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Hyperbeam sent out Crobat (lvl 100 Crobat ?).
Son Goku used Fake Out.
Crobat lost 14% of its health.
Crobat used Air Slash.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Son Goku lost 100% of its health.
Son Goku hung on using its Focus Sash!
Crobat's leftovers restored its health a little!
Crobat restored 6% of its health.
---
Crobat used Air Slash.
It's super effective!
Son Goku lost 0% of its health.
Kidel's Son Goku fainted.
Crobat's leftovers restored its health a little!
Crobat restored 6% of its health.
---
Kidel switched in Gravekeeper (lvl 100 Marowak ?).
Crobat used Hypnosis.
Crobat's attack missed!
Gravekeeper used Substitute.
Gravekeeper lost 25% of its health.
Gravekeeper made a substitute!
Crobat's leftovers restored its health a little!
Crobat restored 2% of its health.
---
Crobat used Air Slash.
The substitute took damage for Gravekeeper!
Gravekeeper used Swords Dance.
Gravekeeper's attack was sharply raised.
---
Crobat used Air Slash.
The substitute took damage for Gravekeeper!
Gravekeeper's substitute faded!
Gravekeeper used Rock Slide.
It's super effective!
Crobat lost 100% of its health.
Hyperbeam's Crobat fainted.
---
Hyperbeam switched in Uxie (lvl 100 Uxie).
Uxie used Yawn.
Gravekeeper became drowsy!
Gravekeeper used Rock Slide.
Uxie lost 44% of its health.
---
Kidel switched in Quad Core (lvl 100 Metagross).
Uxie used Light Screen.
A barrier was formed!
---
Uxie used Reflect.
A barrier was formed!
Quad Core used Light Screen.
A barrier was formed!
---
Uxie used Memento.
Hyperbeam's Uxie fainted.
Quad Core used Meteor Mash.
But there was no target!
---
Hyperbeam switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Kidel switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's intimidate cut Umbreon's attack!
Umbreon used Mean Look.
Gyarados was trapped!
---
Gyarados used Taunt.
Umbreon fell for the taunt!
Umbreon used Taunt.
Umbreon can't use Taunt after the taunt!
---
Hyperbeam switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Gyarados used Dragon Dance.
Gyarados's attack was raised.
Gyarados's speed was raised.
Gyarados's light screen wore off!
---
Gyarados used Waterfall.
Scizor lost 40% of its health.
Scizor used Swords Dance.
Scizor's attack was sharply raised.
---
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's not very effective...
Gyarados lost 50% of its health.
Scizor lost 10% of its health.
Gyarados used Dragon Dance.
Gyarados's attack was raised.
Gyarados's speed was raised.
Scizor's light screen wore off!
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's not very effective...
Gyarados lost 44% of its health.
Scizor lost 10% of its health.
Gyarados used Waterfall.
Scizor lost 41% of its health.
Hyperbeam's Scizor fainted.
Scizor's reflect wore off!
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
Hyperbeam switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Gyarados used Taunt.
Umbreon fell for the taunt!
Umbreon used Yawn.
Umbreon can't use Yawn after the taunt!
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
Gyarados used Waterfall.
Umbreon lost 49% of its health.
Umbreon used Struggle.
Gyarados lost 8% of its health.
Umbreon was hit by recoil!
Umbreon lost 25% of its health.
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Gyarados used Waterfall.
Umbreon lost 32% of its health.
Hyperbeam's Umbreon fainted.
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
Hyperbeam switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Gyarados used Taunt.
Metagross fell for the taunt!
Metagross used Thunderpunch.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Gyarados lost 28% of its health.
Kidel's Gyarados fainted.
---
Kidel switched in Gravekeeper (lvl 100 Marowak ?).
Metagross used Ice Punch.
It's super effective!
Gravekeeper lost 49% of its health.
Gravekeeper used Substitute.
Gravekeeper lost 25% of its health.
Gravekeeper made a substitute!
---
Metagross used Ice Punch.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Gravekeeper!
Gravekeeper's substitute faded!
Gravekeeper used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Metagross lost 100% of its health.
Hyperbeam's Metagross fainted.
---
Hyperbeam has left the room.
Kidel wins!

 

[umbarsc]

With all the new changes in UU, this is going to need probably a complete rewrite. I probably won't have time to rewrite this, but Marowak isn't exactly a top priority, so I still could probably do this if no one else will.

One thing I'm wondering is if we even need to distinguish the Swords Dance and Not Swords Dance sets. As simple as it was before, it's even more simple now. All sets should be running max Speed Jolly just to get the jump on minimum Speed Milotic. Fire Punch isn't really needed anymore now that Shaymin's gone. Torterra and Tangrowth are uncommon, and Swords Danced Double-edge will still do quite a bit of damage to them.

 

[twash]

Just going to move this, it's pretty outdated and untouched. Apologies about this, umbarsc.