NOC Matrix 12 NOC - Game Over, Mafia Wins

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Former Hope said:
Now having slept, I guess I can see where people came from reading that as a joke. That said, at least last night I was legit reading the post as being dead serious. Will reevalute my read later, but gut read still doesn't like hawkie=town.
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Excuse#1+Promise

Former Hope said:
Correct me if I'm wrong as I didnt see this amywhere. But there's no set up where a town member can automatically know which one it is right?
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set up spec, but i don't see why town would ask this? from me it makes more sense coming from scum who want to know whether the town PR's know which scum PR's are in the game, imo

Former Hope said:
Being tired and missing something obvious and then getting sleep and being alert and then seeing it? Yeah, that is how sleep works...
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literally Excuse#2 but doesn't bother to promise further activity

Former Hope said:
Okay, bulk to catch up with.

(from post #350)- King v Asek doesn't come off as scum bussing. There's way too much bickering in there for me to believe it was part of a planned ploy. That said, King to me is coming across as more frustrated then worried which would lead me to think he's town as I don't see in this situation where a scum would be straight up frustrated by people taking things they said incorrectly.

Then a bunch of personal shitslinging, not fun to read.

More personal drama with glimmers of game playing here and there.

Asek in/from #382, pushes king for more information. However frankly, my thoughts on the whole conflict is that Asek feels very controlling towards King. Harassing him to post reads and focusing attention on him. For king's part, he hasn't handled it the best which has seemingly led Asek to push more. But if I'm being honest, at this point it feels more so that Asek is pushing on Kings frustration to try and get a lynch on him today instead of pushing King as a towny trying to get information. The attitude in the posts is just way to forced and abrasive to be sincerely from a town imo.
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this is just commentary + probably preparing an SR on an easy target(King) for later in the game(notice he tried to push me early D1 as well?)

Former Hope said:
To be perfectly blunt, I basically ignored and then skimmed over the last few pages of D1. That said, my gut read on King's playing still stands
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that's nice.

i'm sorry but after looking at former's posts in more detail i literally CANNOT leave him alone he's doing the bare minimum in order to scrape by and when he does post 30% is an excuse 60% of filler and 10% is worth reading.

Lynch Former Hope
 
Since everyone is ISOing, I think I'm going to iso Josh this afternoon when I have free time, since nobody gets what I'm trying to point out.

I'm open to any questions anyone has or thoughts, if anyone wants to ask me things.

Also, why is Texas talking about me reading the thread when I'm set to invis for that?


 
kind of eerie how often josh posts something similar to what i have said / posts something im thinking

i think he is town but i plan on reading into any interactions with the deceased before i make a le bold call.

i would like someone to present a fresh case on somebody
 
Hitmonleet said:
Since everyone is ISOing, I think I'm going to iso Josh this afternoon when I have free time, since nobody gets what I'm trying to point out.

I'm open to any questions anyone has or thoughts, if anyone wants to ask me things.

Also, why is Texas talking about me reading the thread when I'm set to invis for that?
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instead of isoing josh how about you answer the dot points yo provided for yourself on this post here

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/matrix-12-noc-day-2.3602966/page-13#post-7344200

i am most interested in your viewpoint on these

you may do your josh iso if you wish but the dot points take precedence. josh is actually a dot point anyway
 
I think josh switching his vote from me to hitmon is interesting because it was clear that ullar/haruno were the lynches. Beginning day 2 he still tunnels me+knights but left out hitmon
 
I think I'm going to have to relook at Josh + shubaka because there was no reason for him to claim shubaka was the clean one when he "claimed" he was cop , I also remember a lot of activity from shubaka on discord but he didn't even manage to place place a vote at eod
 
Ullar said:
wanna congratulate the deal-sphealer on an excellently aimed shot
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scum points, commenting on the night results in a positive is a classic scum move

Asek said:
reading back on walrein his suspicions were largely targeted at knights, and moodycloud (altho moody seemed to be dependant on haruno flipping scum which didnt occur)

knights felt oppurtunistic on haruno wagon

what do people feel about knights + king as a scum duo
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entirely plausible

Josh said:
it is not restricted roleblocker. we are therefore using 7.

lynch king

now if you cuckolds would listen this can be roped. haruno is lynchbait and I'm glad whatever townies were on that wagon fell for it like they do every game.
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happy to start with this

Lynch King

reminder that majority is now in effect and with 14 is takes 8 to lynch

Josh said:
knights leet king are the lynchpool today btw
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agree

want to look into paper/pancake more too

MoodyCloud said:
Vote history says that Jalmont, Knights and King all voted Haruno in posts #520 to #530 aka really close. I'd be surprised if they were all scum because that'd be really obvious from them at this point, but I was wrong about Jalmont so it's a possibility.

I think I'd lynch Knights and from his flip either decide that the two wagons were TvT or that the scum team pushed the counterwagon to Ullar which is a reckless thing to do d1 imo and would implicate Ullar. In the narrative where both wagons were mislynches I'd look at the people not wanting anything to do with the Haruno mislynch (in which case Texas/DLE's late flip onto Haruno would not be a move scum would want to make) aka Ullar wagon+other wagons+the guy who didnt vote.

In any case I think lynching among these :
KnightsofCydonia, King_, Da Letter El, Ullar, Texas Cloverleaf
Knights being my top suspect, or from people who didnt appear to give a fuck about the wagons Paperblade being my top suspect among those,would help settle the matter of Ullar's alignment.

Former Hope Why did you not vote?
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in case its not explicitly clear, i stated multiple times throughout the day that i would be present and willing to change my vote to ensure it did not remain tied, at 15 minutes to deadline the vote was tied 6-6 so i unvoted my preferred lynch in ullar and made it 7-5 haruno so that neither could stealth unlynch to re-tie it. doing it at 15 mins to meant i left time for walrein or asek to post in case there were any changes of mind. its disingenuous to say that i "flipped" when it was done clearly and expressly to prevent a tied vote scenario

why are DLE and I in your "willing to lynch pool" yet your top suspect in paperblade among that category is not?

Thetwinmasters said:
Votecount
Haruno (7): Walrein, Jalmont, KnightsofCydonia, King_, Da Letter El, Ullar, Texas Cloverleaf
Ullar (5): Hawkie, Blazade, Asek, Moodycloud, Haruno
Asek (1): Shubaka
King_ (1): Paperblade
Hitmonleet (1): Josh
Josh (1): Hitmonleet

Not Voting (1): Former Hope
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Based on the final vote I expect at least one scum on each of the three wagons

One in {Walrein, Jalmont, KnightsofCydonia, King_, Da Letter El, Ullar, Texas Cloverleaf}
One in {Hawkie, Blazade, Asek, Moodycloud, Haruno}
One in {Shubaka, Paperblade/Pancake, Josh, Hitmonleet, Former Hope}

And the fourth scum floating somewhere among the morass. Means little for today but keep note for future associations.

Hawkie said:
Excuse#1+Promise



set up spec, but i don't see why town would ask this? from me it makes more sense coming from scum who want to know whether the town PR's know which scum PR's are in the game, imo



literally Excuse#2 but doesn't bother to promise further activity



this is just commentary + probably preparing an SR on an easy target(King) for later in the game(notice he tried to push me early D1 as well?)



that's nice.

i'm sorry but after looking at former's posts in more detail i literally CANNOT leave him alone he's doing the bare minimum in order to scrape by and when he does post 30% is an excuse 60% of filler and 10% is worth reading.

Lynch Former Hope
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Agreeing that his posts have been bad, a lot of day 1 people were saying things like how they always scum read FH's style, what makes you look here vs (king, knights, leet)?

Hitmonleet said:
Since everyone is ISOing, I think I'm going to iso Josh this afternoon when I have free time, since nobody gets what I'm trying to point out.

I'm open to any questions anyone has or thoughts, if anyone wants to ask me things.

Also, why is Texas talking about me reading the thread when I'm set to invis for that?
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Apparently not, there was a definite point after you were tagged when you were seen viewing the thread and not posting
 
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King_ said:
I think josh switching his vote from me to hitmon is interesting because it was clear that ullar/haruno were the lynches. Beginning day 2 he still tunnels me+knights but left out hitmon
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This requires 2 things: assuming josh is clumsy enough as scum to blatantly wagon dodge and expect no-one to notice + buying your misrep of his tunnel given that he listed hitmonleet in his lynch pool at start of day as per my above quote post
 
Yeah both those posts from king look like very clear attempts to cast suspicion on josh/shub based on NAI posts or clear misrepresentation

coincidentally two people widely townread d1
 
The double chainsaw would be scummy even if Jalmont hadn't flipped. It'd be less scummy if it were just Jalmont defending Shubaka or vice versa, but they both went and attacked each other's detractors. This is a neon sign of a scumtell and I don't think I'm budging my vote today.

Picking up where I left off on rereading Walrein's interactions.
 
KnightsofCydonia said:
The double chainsaw would be scummy even if Jalmont hadn't flipped. It'd be less scummy if it were just Jalmont defending Shubaka or vice versa, but they both went and attacked each other's detractors. This is a neon sign of a scumtell and I don't think I'm budging my vote today.

Picking up where I left off on rereading Walrein's interactions.
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j/s but locking the vote in on one spot isn't helpful to town when we need 8/11 townies voting the same to guarantee a lynch where we want

iyour argument is intriguing but i'm not convinced, are there any other indicators that shub/jalmont are a scum team? is it possible that jalmont could have been trying to pocket shub?
 
There's something in the Walrein interactions making me go :thinking:. The vote in #363 looks like it formed Shub's read in #408. I think this probably wouldn't read scummy on it's own, though.

Looking at other details in Walrein's interactions, I think Texas might have climbed up in my reads again. #538 is downright eerie, but I don't think scum would signal to a vig to shoot their own. Feels like the kind of thing where scum!Texas would have gambled and lost.
 
KnightsofCydonia said:
There's something in the Walrein interactions making me go :thinking:. The vote in #363 looks like it formed Shub's read in #408. I think this probably wouldn't read scummy on it's own, though.

Looking at other details in Walrein's interactions, I think Texas might have climbed up in my reads again. #538 is downright eerie, but I don't think scum would signal to a vig to shoot their own. Feels like the kind of thing where scum!Texas would have gambled and lost.
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read 538 in context of 536
 
King_ said:
I think josh switching his vote from me to hitmon is interesting because it was clear that ullar/haruno were the lynches. Beginning day 2 he still tunnels me+knights but left out hitmon
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thank you for the misrep. show me where I'm tunnelling you + knights and ignoring hitmon when I said you three were my lynch pool and knights is the lowest
 
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