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Pokémon Mawile

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zferolie said:
With Sound moves now hitting through Sub, and the popularity of Hyper voice, Boomburst, and other sound based moves, this set could have some trouble against some pokemon
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As an aside: You should really add more to your post when saying things like this. Listing Pokemon, running damage calculations, potential threats, what have you, all add more to the conversation than one-liners do.

That said, all sounds moves are Normal Type, or, after Pixilate, Fairy-Type, meaning Mawile resists all of them, and 50/95 ain't too shabby when it comes to taking resisted assaults. In addition to that, the only common users of sound-based moves are Sylveon, Gardevoir, Exploud and Noivern, 3 of which Mega Mawile beats without any concerns at all, and one of which (Noivern) Mega Mawile struggles to beat, but not because of Boomburst, but because of Infiltrator, which lets him bypass the Substitute and nail him with a Flamethrower.

Damage Calculations
vs. 164 HP/0 SDEF (Adamant) Mega Mawile
0 SATK (Calm/Bold) Sylveon Hyper Voice (119 Base Power): (25.53 - 30.49%) -- guaranteed 4HKO.
252 SATK (Modest) Exploud w/Life Orb Boomburst (140 Base Power): (47.16 - 55.67%) -- 77.34% chance to 2HKO
252 SATK (Timid) Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice (119 Base Power): (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO.
252 SATK (Timid) Noivern w/Life Orb Boomburst (140 Base Power): (59.92 - 70.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
252 SATK (Timid) Noivern w/Life Orb Flamethrower (90 Base Power): (78.36 - 92.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
252 SATK (Timid) Noivern Flamethrower (90 Base Power): (60.28 - 70.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Mega Mawile vs.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP/0 DEF (Calm) Sylveon: (100 - 118.02%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Naive) Exploud: (116.04 - 136.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Naive) Exploud: (68.76 - 81.08%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Timid) Mega Gardevoir: (84.47 - 99.63%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Timid) Mega Gardevoir: (142.23 - 167.87%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Timid) Noivern: (214.79 - 253.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Timid) Noivern: (63.66 - 75.24%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

Every one of these Pokemon threatens to deal massive damage to Mawile - however, Noivern is the only one who can outright kill him while he's behind a Substitute, but not without taking massive damage and potentially killing himself from the combination of Sucker Punch, Stealth Rock, and Life Orb recoil.
 
Cshadow said:
That said, all sounds moves are Normal Type, or, after Pixilate, Fairy-Type, meaning Mawile resists all of them, and 50/95 ain't too shabby when it comes to taking resisted assaults.
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To be fair you can get ice type or flying type sound move as both pinsir and aurorus learn round but I can't see that turning up too often.
 
I personally like to pair up Mega-Mawile with Togekiss. Why?
Megawile's Steel typing gives her a weakness to Earthquake that gets problematic if you didn't invest much in Def, but Togekiss is immune to EQ.

The enemy sends out a Ground 'mon likely to have EQ, I switch to Togekiss, get rid of it with Air Slash (or Dazzling Gleam if dealing with a Dragon/Ground threat faster than Megawile) then switch back to Megawile and continue attacking.

Togekiss also has the advantage of having Wish, making him able to restore almost all of Megawile's HP.
 
Cshadow said:
As an aside: You should really add more to your post when saying things like this. Listing Pokemon, running damage calculations, potential threats, what have you, all add more to the conversation than one-liners do.

That said, all sounds moves are Normal Type, or, after Pixilate, Fairy-Type, meaning Mawile resists all of them, and 50/95 ain't too shabby when it comes to taking resisted assaults. In addition to that, the only common users of sound-based moves are Sylveon, Gardevoir, Exploud and Noivern, 3 of which Mega Mawile beats without any concerns at all, and one of which (Noivern) Mega Mawile struggles to beat, but not because of Boomburst, but because of Infiltrator, which lets him bypass the Substitute and nail him with a Flamethrower.

Damage Calculations
vs. 164 HP/0 SDEF (Adamant) Mega Mawile
0 SATK (Calm/Bold) Sylveon Hyper Voice (119 Base Power): (25.53 - 30.49%) -- guaranteed 4HKO.
252 SATK (Modest) Exploud w/Life Orb Boomburst (140 Base Power): (47.16 - 55.67%) -- 77.34% chance to 2HKO
252 SATK (Timid) Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice (119 Base Power): (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO.
252 SATK (Timid) Noivern w/Life Orb Boomburst (140 Base Power): (59.92 - 70.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
252 SATK (Timid) Noivern w/Life Orb Flamethrower (90 Base Power): (78.36 - 92.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
252 SATK (Timid) Noivern Flamethrower (90 Base Power): (60.28 - 70.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Mega Mawile vs.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP/0 DEF (Calm) Sylveon: (100 - 118.02%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Naive) Exploud: (116.04 - 136.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Naive) Exploud: (68.76 - 81.08%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Timid) Mega Gardevoir: (84.47 - 99.63%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Timid) Mega Gardevoir: (142.23 - 167.87%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Timid) Noivern: (214.79 - 253.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
252 ATK (Adamant) Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP/0 DEF (Timid) Noivern: (63.66 - 75.24%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

Every one of these Pokemon threatens to deal massive damage to Mawile - however, Noivern is the only one who can outright kill him while he's behind a Substitute, but not without taking massive damage and potentially killing himself from the combination of Sucker Punch, Stealth Rock, and Life Orb recoil.
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Sorry. I am still new to the whole damage calculator thing on this site, so don't know how to do it... And to be fair I knew there were other moves other then normal moves that were sound based (Bug Buzz, Snarl), but you are right, all are NVE of Mawile. I should have taken that into effect when I said my comment. I was just commenting on Sub Focus Punch is not a a perfect way to get around Focus Punches Flinching any more(plus out multi hitting moves from Mega heracross will hurt like heck, but that's beside the point)

Anyway, can someone run some numbers for me? I have a Defensive Impish Mawile with near Perfect HP and Attack IV's and Very High Defense IV's. I am going to max out her attack, but not sure how I should split up the rest to make him very defensive, since Mega Mawile has a VERY high Base Defense. Do I run Full HP, Full Defense, or a Mix? Can someone run some tests to see what gives her the best Physical Bulk for my Planned set?

Mega Mawile(Impish)
Intimidate/Huge Power
Sucker Punch
Play Rough
Iron Head
Stock Pile/Power Up Punch
 
Always go with full HP if you want to maximize its bulk. Also, Stockpile and Power-up Punch are bad move choices, you'd be better off with Substitute to block status and super effective hits, Swords Dance to hit harder, or Brick Break to keep Heatran away.
 
Legitimate Username said:
Always go with full HP if you want to maximize its bulk. Also, Stockpile and Power-up Punch are bad move choices, you'd be better off with Substitute to block status and super effective hits, Swords Dance to hit harder, or Brick Break to keep Heatran away.
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Ok, sounds like a Plan, though would throwing some Defense EV's increase it's physical Bulk? I mean, not much, still mostly HP, but maybe 40 or something? Maybe 100 at most?

Substitute was one option I forgot to put in. You are right it would work well for stopping status.

I was thinking power up punch because 1 power up punch puts her attack in the 900's, plus you do quite a bit of damage with 600 attack anyway. Sucker Punch coming from a 900 attack? call the paramedics now. What is the damage difference between a 600 Power up punch and a 600 Brick Break? I know it's decent, but will it stop you from OHKOing a Heatran?

As for Stockpile, it was just a crazy idea. Boost that Defense even higher, and give it more spc bulk. It was mainly to be used when you know someone is switching out, or on Physical Walls. I wish they gave Stock pile a boost, since you can only use it 3 times and it is needed for 2 other attacks... they should have made it so even if you switch out you keep your stockpile levels. That would have made it unique!
 
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 294-348 (91 - 107.7%) (OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 294-348 (76.1 - 90.1%) (OHKO after 2 switch-ins on Stealth Rock)

Power-up Punch will do pathetic damage to almost any target, so unless your name is Mega Kangaskhan, you should never use it. Swords Dance is a far better way to boost your attack.

Because Mawile has low base HP, investing it will increase it by the greatest percentage, maximizing its bulk to the fullest potential.

Defensive boosts may seem good in theory, but Mawile completely lacks recovery so it can be worn down easily, and the boosts will be lost anyways if it gets hit by Whirlwind or Roar. Only try to use them if you're running a full Baton Pass team (which Mawile is actually decent in, but that's a completely separate matter not worth bringing up).

Also, Fire Fang is worth a mention, letting you dent the steel types like Skarmory and Aegislash who don't care about Brick Break.
 
Legitimate Username said:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 294-348 (91 - 107.7%) (OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 294-348 (76.1 - 90.1%) (OHKO after 2 switch-ins on Stealth Rock)

Power-up Punch will do pathetic damage to almost any target, so unless your name is Mega Kangaskhan, you should never use it. Swords Dance is a far better way to boost your attack.

Because Mawile has low base HP, investing it will increase it by the greatest percentage, maximizing its bulk to the fullest potential.

Defensive boosts may seem good in theory, but Mawile completely lacks recovery so it can be worn down easily, and the boosts will be lost anyways if it gets hit by Whirlwind or Roar. Only try to use them if you're running a full Baton Pass team (which Mawile is actually decent in, but that's a completely separate matter not worth bringing up).

Also, Fire Fang is worth a mention, letting you dent the steel types like Skarmory and Aegislash who don't care about Brick Break.
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Ok, I see. Thanks for the info there. Guess I'll use either Sub or Brick Break... most likely Brick Break.

That is true... I forgot Mawile's HP is low, so full HP would give it the best boost.

Sadly I do not have a full Baton pass team... It seems a bit hard to pull off effectively to be honest. With some good prediction it could work though.

I forgot about fire fang... but Aegislash goes down to Sucker Punch. Skarm would take Neutral damage from sucker Punch, though really Skarm won't be hurting Mawile much either
 
So how do you stop MMawile once he has 1 or 2 swords dances going? He just keeps throwing sucker punch until I attack. Even if I set up or bring in my physical wall, I can't last 2 turns against it. Is my only option to force it out? I don't have a sleep move on my team right now and anything that can OHKO him will most likely get OHKOd first due to sucker punch.
 
shack said:
So how do you stop MMawile once he has 1 or 2 swords dances going? He just keeps throwing sucker punch until I attack. Even if I set up or bring in my physical wall, I can't last 2 turns against it. Is my only option to force it out? I don't have a sleep move on my team right now and anything that can OHKO him will most likely get OHKOd first due to sucker punch.
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Burn it, stall Sucker Punches PP, KO it with something that can tank a Sucker Punch (not much at +2, but still). Its better to try to damage it so it can't safely set up, cause its a bitch once it gets in on you.
 
shack said:
So how do you stop MMawile once he has 1 or 2 swords dances going? He just keeps throwing sucker punch until I attack. Even if I set up or bring in my physical wall, I can't last 2 turns against it. Is my only option to force it out? I don't have a sleep move on my team right now and anything that can OHKO him will most likely get OHKOd first due to sucker punch.
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Letting your opponent get a 2nd swords dance for free is always a deadly mistake. Mega Lucario, Scizor Bullet Punch, Talonflame Brave Birds, Aegislash... they all can easily sweep teams at +4.

Any pokemon that can set-up is a major threat. So, when a potential swords dancer comes in, you have only one turn to correct your mistake. Switch to a counter immediately, because its basically all over at +4. Skarmory is a decent temporary fix, because it can whirlwind those boosts away.

Burn it, stall Sucker Punches PP, KO it with something that can tank a Sucker Punch (not much at +2, but still).
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More than you'd think. Its any pokemon that is faster than Mawile but survives +2 Sucker Punch. TTar has Earthquake, Hydreigon has Fire Blast, Lucario has Mega-Close Combat (yes, Lucario survives, barely). But when +2 Sucker Punch is taking care of 0/0 Garchomp and 0/0 Heatran, you know the list of revenge killers is pretty small.

The problem is that all 3 checks I just mentioned are OHKOed by +0 Play Rough. I tend to just spam Play Rough early on to take out potential checks. The other problem is that 252/0 Mawile survives 252+ Mega-Close Combat and TTar Earthquake (without CB)...

Substitute / Protect Zapdos seems to work very well for outstalling that Sucker Punch PP... and Play Rough's PP as well.

Burn seems like a bad strategy in my experience however.

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mawile (Move 2) vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 262-309 (87.62 - 103.34%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

You burn Mawile, who still has enough firepower to OHKO Rotom-W, and then lose your Rotom-W to the incoming Play Rough. Mawile is still in, and is barely hampered by the Burn >_<.
 
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How do you stop it from setting up tho?
First turn they switch him in. I switch out to attempt a and they SD. 2nd turn they SD again, easy my first hit then sucker punch away. Its hard to hit it on the special side because most special attackers have bad physical def.
 
shack said:
How do you stop it from setting up tho?
First turn they switch him in. I switch out to attempt a and they SD. 2nd turn they SD again, easy my first hit then sucker punch away. Its hard to hit it on the special side because most special attackers have bad physical def.
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Your opponent can always get a nearly free Swords Dance out of you. That is why almost all calculations are done at +2 in this thread: you assume that your opponent can take advantage of an opening and get a single swords dance.

The SECOND swords dance is a critical mistake. You MUST stop Mawile before the 2nd swords dance. For example:

Turn 1:
Mawile uses Swords Dance
Player2 Switches in Bulky Heatran

Turn 2:
Mawile uses Sucker Punch. +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 311-366 (80.77 - 95.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Heatran uses Fire Blast. 0 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mawile: 338-402 (111.18 - 132.23%) -- guaranteed OHKO

----------------

Turn 1:
Mawile uses Swords Dance
Player 2 switches in Skarmory

Turn 2:
Mawile uses Brick Break. +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile Brick Break vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 175-207 (53.51 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarmory uses Whirlwind. Mawile is forced out, and "loses" the swords dance.
 
shack said:
How do you stop it from setting up tho?
First turn they switch him in. I switch out to attempt a and they SD. 2nd turn they SD again, easy my first hit then sucker punch away. Its hard to hit it on the special side because most special attackers have bad physical def.
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The best way to handle a +2 Mawile is to use a faster sweeper that resists (or takes enough not to be killed by) Sucker Punch. (M)-Lucario is a good example of this. Also phasers like Skarmory (but it fears Fire Fang)
 
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sidakarya said:
The best way to handle a +2 Mawile is to use a faster sweeper that resists Sucker Punch. (M)-Lucario is a good example of this.
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(M) Lucario is a terrible example.

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile Brick Break vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 344-406 (121.98 - 143.97%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile (Play Rough) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 309-364 (109.57 - 129.07%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 228-270 (75 - 88.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mawile can KO Lucario on the switchin. Even at "neutral", Mawile has the defenses to survive an Adaptability Close Combat, and then return the KO with either Play Rough or Brick Break. (Believe it or not, Super-Effective Earthquake is weaker than Adaptability Close Combat, so CC is Lucario's best attack vs Mawile). Mega-Lucario isn't even a "check" against Mawile.
 
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Dragontamer said:
252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 228-270 (75 - 88.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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Huh, I actually didn't notice that.

I suppose Rotom-W is a better answer (again). Rotom-W outspeeds it and can burn Mawile on the attack. Rotom-H would be even better, as it resists both STABs, which is better insurance against Substitute sets.
 
sidakarya said:
Huh, I actually didn't notice that.

I suppose Rotom-W is a better answer (again). Rotom-W outspeeds it and can burn Mawile on the attack. Rotom-H would be even better, as it resists both STABs, which is better insurance against Substitute sets.
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Rotom-W is a terrible answer.

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mawile (Play Rough) vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 262-309 (87.62 - 103.34%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with Stealth Rocks in play)

Sure, you just "halved" Mawile's massive attack stat. Its still a massive attack stat. Mawile may be doing 1/2 damage for the rest of the game, but you just lost Rotom-W.

Rotom-H is an actual answer, but Mega-Mawile can always run Stone Edge: +2 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mawile Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Rotom-H: 385-454 (127.06 - 149.83%) -- guaranteed OHKO. I don't think "Stone Edge" Mawile is a thing however... I think Rotom-H can take every other (burned) attack from Mawile.
 
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Dragontamer said:
Rotom-W is a terrible answer.

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mawile (Play Rough) vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 262-309 (87.62 - 103.34%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with Stealth Rocks in play)

Sure, you just "halved" Mawile's massive attack stat. Its still a massive attack stat. Mawile may be doing 1/2 damage for the rest of the game, but you just lost Rotom-W.

Rotom-H is an actual answer, but Mega-Mawile can always run Stone Edge.
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Are you using the same Rotom-W? Because I get:

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mawile (Play Rough) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 191-225 (62.82 - 74.01%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Rotom-H with the same EVs is better though.
 
sidakarya said:
Are you using the same Rotom-W? Because I get:

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mawile (Play Rough) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 191-225 (62.82 - 74.01%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Rotom-H with the same EVs is better though.
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It looks like you aren't using the same Rotom-W, judging from the EVs.

Sacrificing a Pokemon to burn a terrifying sweeper can be a worthwhile sacrifice, but it's not ideal.
 
Thorhammer said:
It looks like you aren't using the same Rotom-W, judging from the EVs.

Sacrificing a Pokemon to burn a terrifying sweeper can be a worthwhile sacrifice, but it's not ideal.
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Where are you getting 232 HP/ 0 DEF Rotom-W from? Rotom-W is one of the best checks to Talonflame and other physical sweepers around - it should be running something similar to 248 HP/ 232 DEF/ 28 SpA with a Bold nature.
 
So I've been running M-Mawile a bunch (sub/FocusPunch/PlayRough/SuckerPunch, 92 speed EVs) on an all-gen team, and was wondering what type of support others ran on their teams to help M-Mawile get going.

Dual screens + Trick Room setup is working out well for me, but I feel like it would be better with a SD set and 0 speed EVs. Dropping the speed EVs isn't a big issue since I can usually take a hit from T-tar anyways to KO back, and Trevenant's common sets run enough speed to beat me anyways.

Vaporeon is a decent partner with BPing gigantic substitutes and wish, as well as taking fire attacks and special attacks well enough. Talonflame makes a good partner for M-Mawile too, one of them can wear down checks/counters enabling the other to clean up.
 
Was just thinking by myself: Justified Arcanine is basically the best counter to Mawile if their not running Stone Edge. Arcanine can take the hits like a boss while hitting back with stab Flare Blitz or Fireblast.
 
Defensive Arcanine is even better as a counter, as it has Intimidate to make sure, Stone Edge doesn't OHKO even after Stealth Rock damage. It can then outspeed and OHKO with Fire Blast.

Rotom-H is another good counter as mentioned before. Infernape resists Sucker Punch and OHKO's with a fire move, making it a good revenge-killer. Fire-types in general might be the best checks and counters to M-Mawile.
 
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