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(MC) Middle Cup Tier

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I've never even heard of Middle Cup until I even saw this thread, but this sounds pretty cool. So things like Golbat and Dusclops are gonna be rampant in this Cup then, huh?
 
StallMandibuzz said:
Can someone put a list up for what Pokemon can participate in the tier?
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Normal – Pidgeotto, Clefairy, Jigglypuff, Chansey, Porygon2, Togetic, Vigoroth, Loudred, Staravia, Herdier, Tranquill
Fighting – Machoke, Combusken, Monferno, Pignite, Gurdurr
Flying – Pidgeotto, Golbat, Togetic, Skiploom, Staravia, Tranquill
Poison – Ivysaur, Kakuna, Nidorina, Nidorino, Golbat, Gloom, Weepinbell, Haunter, Roselia, Whirlipede
Ground – Graveler, Rhydon, Piloswine, Pupitar, Marshtomp, Vibrava, Gabite, Palpitoad, Krokorok
Rock – Graveler, Rhydon, Pupitar, Lairon, Boldore
Bug – Metapod, Kakuna, Silcoon, Cascoon, Swadloon, Whirlipede
Ghost – Haunter, Dusclops, Lampent
Steel – Magneton, Lairon, Metang, Klang
Fire – Charmeleon, Magmar, Quilava, Combusken, Monferno, Pignite, Lampent
Water – Wartortle, Poliwhirl, Seadra, Croconaw, Marill, Marshtomp, Lombre, Sealeo, Prinplup, Dewott, Palpitoad
Grass – Ivysaur, Gloom, Weepinbell, Bayleef, Skiploom, Grovyle, Lombre, Nuzleaf, Roselia, Grotle, Servine, Swadloon
Electric – Pikachu, Magneton, Electabuzz, Flaaffy, Luxio, Eelektrik
Psychic – Kadabra, Kirlia, Metang, Gothorita, Duosion
Ice – Piloswine, Sealeo, Vanillish
Dragon – Dragonair, Vibrava, Shelgon, Gabite, Fraxure, Zweilous
Dark – Nuzleaf, Krokorok, Zweilous

Top – Chansey (250), Jigglypuff (115), Rhydon (105), Piloswine (100), Pignite/Sealeo (90), Porygon2/Gurdurr (85), Loudred (84), Vigoroth/Machoke (80)
Bottom – Pikachu (35), Kirlia (38), Kadabra/Dusclops/Whirlipede (40), Haunter/Kakuna (45), Grovyle/Magneton/Cascoon/Silcoon/Metapod/Vibrava/Roselia (50)

Top – Rhydon (130), Fraxure (117), Gurdurr/Boldore (105), Piloswine/Machoke (100), Magmar/Shelgon/Graveler (95), Pignite (93)
Bottom – Chansey (5), Metapod/Marill (20), Kakuna (25), Kirlia/Kadabra/Cascoon/Silcoon (35), Togetic/Lampent/Duosion (40)

Top – Lairon (140), Dusclops (130), Rhydon (120), Graveler (115), Boldore (105), Shelgon/Metang (100) Whirlipede (99), Klang/Seadra/Magneton (95)
Bottom – Chansey (5), Jigglypuff (20), Kadabra/Pikachu (30), Kirlia (35), Nuzleaf (40), Loudred (43), Haunter/Roselia/Grovyle/Krokorok (45)

Top – Duosion (125), Magneton/Kadabra (120), Haunter (115), Porygon2 (105), Magmar/Roselia (100), Seadra/Lampent/Electabuzz (95)
Bottom – Marill (20), Kakuna/Metapod/Cascoon/Silcoon (25), Chansey/Herdier (35), Staravia/Fraxure/Gurdurr/Whirlipede (40)

Top – Dusclops (130), Togetic/Chansey (105), Porygon2 (95), Magmar/Electabuzz/Gothorita/Klang (85), Roselia/Ivysaur/Wartortle/Bayleef/Metang/Swadloon (80)
Bottom – Kakuna/Metapod/Cascoon/Silcoon/Jigglypuff (25), Staravia/Pikachu/Boldore/Nuzleaf (40), Tranquill (42)

Top – Electabuzz/Kadabra (105), Grovyle/Haunter (95), Magmar (93), Golbat/Vigoroth/Poliwhirl/Pikachu (90), Seadra (85)
Bottom – Cascoon/Silcoon (15), Jigglypuff/Boldore (20), Dusclops (25), Metapod/Duosion (30), Kakuna/Graveler/Clefairy (35)

Top – Porygon2 (515), Magmar (495), Electabuzz (490), Rhydon (485), Magneton (465), Golbat/Dusclops (455), Chansey/Piloswine (450), Vigoroth/Seadra/Klang (440)
Bottom – Cascoon/Silcoon/Metapod/Kakuna (205), Marill (250), Jigglypuff (270), Kirlia (278), Pikachu (300), Clefairy (323), Lombre/Nuzleaf/Vibrava/Staravia/Skiploom (340)

I posted this in the threat list, but as it seems to have fallen off the main page, I'll put it here as well. Take into account the stat listings ignore special items and abilities.
 
Okay, thanks! :) Damn, there are a lot more Pokes in this tier then I thought. :P Some are complete garbage in any competitive tier, like Kakuna and Metapod, while some are epic, like Gurdurr and Duosion. Any Poke could be successful, but you would have to be extremely lucky, and have the opponent not care that you're BPing a shit-ton of boosts to a Magikarp or Kakuna or something like that.
 
Magikarp isn't in the tier and only 2 pokemon in the tier can learn baton pass, togetic and combusken (but not with speed boost), Sadly only Scollipede learns batonpass and not whirlpede
 
Zweilous was theorymonned a lot and it seems pretty legit. Outrage is a must, obviously, and kills lots of stuff. It can pretty much use the UU sets in C&C (too lazy to bring it up). As for Golbat, the SR weakness is hardly an issue, as Stealth Rock is not used much. He's a fantastic lead though, with Hypnosis and U-turn gaining you lots of momentum right off the bat.
 
kniteowl said:
Magikarp isn't in the tier and only 2 pokemon in the tier can learn baton pass, togetic and combusken (but not with speed boost), Sadly only Scollipede learns batonpass and not whirlpede
Click to expand...

I know, I was just saying that any Pokemon could have success in any tier if you BPed lots of boosts to it and you didn't get phazed out in the process. I've actually seen someone sweep with a Kakuna before, so it isn't entirely far-fetched.
 
R4GEKILL said:
Swadloon has no healing. at all. other then lefties. Which is terrible.
Click to expand...
Umm... neither does Combusken.

Swadloon @ Eviolite
252 HP/252Spe/4Def
Jolly/Timid
-Baton Pass
-Agility / Calm Mind
-Substitute
-Bug Bite / Energy Ball / Grass Knot

This is just theoretical, but...
 
Man I remember I used to play this a year ago. Good times...

Eviolite is stupid and I might play if it gets banned. And same goes with Chansey if she isn't banned yet.
 
Most Pokes don't have good reliable recovery except for Lefties and Restalking, but they still survive. If the Machop family could get Drain Punch, it would be good, but No Guard DynamicPunch is just as good.
 
Machoke and Gurdurr are two different Pokemon used for two different things. Gurdurr's a status absorber and can use Mach Punch and Drain Punch, while Machoke is used for its' No Guard DynamicPunch, but it too can be used for its' Guts.
 
More Data - Perfect (or Near Perfect) Coverage in two moves for this tier:

Fighting+Flying
Fighting+Rock
Fighting+Ghost
Fighting+Dragon
Fighting+Dark

Water+Normal
Water+Poison*
Water+Rock*
Water+Bug
Water+Dragon

Ground+Ice
Ground+Dragon

Flying+Dark

Fire+Dragon

*Currently
Ground+Poison (Walled by Golbat+Haunter+Vibrava)
Ground+Flying (Walled by Eelektrik)
Ground+Rock (Walled by Vibrava)
Ground+Steel (Walled by Lombre+Eelektrik)
Ground+Fire (Walled by Vibrava)
Ground+Psychic (Walled by Nuzleaf)
Ground+Dark (Walled by Nuzleaf)

Water+Poison (Walled by Water Absorb Palpitoad*)
Water+Rock (Walled by Water Absorb Palpitoad*)
Water+Ghost (walled by Nuzleaf+Zweilous)
Water+Psychic (Walled by Nuzleaf+Zweilous)
Water+Dark (Walled by Nuzleaf+Zweilous)

Fighting+Steel (Walled by Lampent)
Fighting+Fire (Walled by Lampent)
Fighting+Ice (Walled by Lampent)

Normal+Ground (Walled by Haunter)
Normal+Grass (Walled by Haunter+Lampent)

Fire+Ghost (Walled by Zweilous)
Fire+Psychic (Walled by Zweilous)

Electric+Bug (Walled by Magneton)
Electric+Ice (Walled by Magneton)

*Unreleased
These lists do not include combinations that are only walled by one out of the seventeen types, even if there are only three of those in the entire tier.


Also, though this is probably less useful, here's the breakdown of how the attack types fare individually in this tier:
Normal:
Neutral - 67 (70 if the attacker is Scrappy Loudred/Herdier)
2x Resist - 7
4x Resist - Lairon
Immune - Haunter, Dusclops, Lampent (All can be hit by Scrappy Loudred+Herdier, but those are unreleased abilities)

Fighting:
4x Weak - Lairon
2x Weak - 19
Neutral - 33 (36 if the attaker is Scrappy Loudred/Herdier)
2x Resist - 19
4x Resist - Kakuna, Golbat, Whirlipede
Immune - Haunter, Dusclops, Lampent (All can be hit by Scrappy Loudred+Herdier, but those are unreleased abilities)

Flying:
4x Weak - Swadloon
2x Weak - 22
Neutral - 42
2x Resist - 11
4x Resist - Magneton, Lairon

Poison:
2x Weak - 8
Neutral - 49
2x Resist - 13
4x Resist - Haunter, Graveler, Rhydon, Pupitar
Immune - Magneton, Lairon, Metang, Klang

Ground:
4x Weak - Magneton, Lairon
2x Weak - 19 (21 if attacker is Mold Breaker Fraxure)
Neutral - 38
2x Resist - 9
4x Resist - Swadloon
Immune - 9 (6 if attacker is Mold Breaker Fraxure)

Rock:
2x Weak - 18
Neutral - 46
2x Resist - 14

Bug:
4x Weak - Nuzleaf
2x Weak - 12
Neutral - 42
2x Resist - 17
4x Resist - Combusken, Monferno, Pignite, Lampent, Golbat, Haunter

Ghost:
2x Weak - 7
Neutral - 54
2x Resist - 6
Immune - 11

Steel:
2x Weak - 6
Neutral - 61
2x Resist - 10
4x Resist - Magneton

Fire:
4x Weak - Swadloon
2x Weak - 20 (This includes Non-Thick Fat Piloswine)
Neutral - 32 (This Includes Thick Fat Piloswine and Non-Thick Fat Sealeo)
2x Resist - 27 (This includes Thick Fat Sealeo, Non-Thick Fat Marill/Pignite*, and Non-Flash Fire Quilava*/Lampent)
4x Resist - Thick Fat Marill/Pignite*
Immune - Flash Fire Quilava*/Lampent

*Unreleased

Water:
4x Weak - Graveler, Rhydon, Pupitar
2x Weak - 11
Neutral - 41 (includes Non-Water Absorb Palpitoad)
2x Resist - 22 (Includes Non-Water Absorb Poliwhirl)
4x Resist - Lombre
Immune - Water Absorb Poliwhirl/Palpitoad*

*Unreleased

Grass:
4x Weak - Graveler, Rhydon, Pupitar, Marshtomp, Palpitoad
2x Weak - 11 (Includes Non-Sap Sipper Marill)
Neutral - 27
2x Resist - 27
4x Resist - Kakuna, Swadloon, Golbat, Skiploom, Ivysaur, Gloom, Weepinbell, Roselia
Immune - Sap Sipper Marill

Electric:
2x Weak - 13
Neutral - 36
2x Resist - 20 (Includes Non-Lightningrod Pikachu)
Immune - 10 (Includes Lightningrod Pikachu)

Psychic:
2x Weak - 15
Neutral - 52
2x Resist - 7
4x Resist - Metang
Immune - Nuzleaf, Krokorok, Zweilous

Ice:
4x Weak - Skiploom, Vibrava, Gabite
2x Weak - 23
Neutral - 32 (Includes Non-Thick Fat Piloswine)
2x Resist - 20 (Includes Thick Fat Piloswine and Non-Thick Fat Marill/Pignite)
4x Resist - Non-Thick Fat Sealeo, Thick Fat Marill/Pignite*
8x Resist - Thick Fat Sealeo

Dragon:
2x Weak - 6
Neutral - 68
2x Resist - 4

Dark:
2x Weak - 6
Neutral - 61
2x Resist - 11
A simpler and probably slightly more useful version of this second set of data is that...
a.) The list of the types that hit the most things Super Effective in order is Ice (33.3%), Flying (29.5%), Ground/Fire (26.9%), Fighting (25.6%), Rock (23.1%), Grass (20.5%), Psychic (19.2%), Water (17.9%), Bug/Electric (16.7%), Poison (10.3%), Ghost (9.0%), Dragon/Steel/Dark (7.7%), and Normal (0%).
b.) the list of types in this tier by most neutral coverage is Dragon (94.9%), Psychic/Steel/Dark/Normal (85.9%), Flying (83.3%), Rock (82.1%), Ghost (78.2%), Ground (75.6%), Ice (74.4%), Poison (73.1%) Water/Bug (70.5%), Fighting (67.9%), Fire (66.7%), Electric (62.8%), Grass (55.1%).

From this two things in particular stand out to me. 1.) I like this tier. Where else would Steel have some of the best neutral coverage available or would Poison have better neutral coverage than Water or Fighting. 2.) If there's anything good that can use it, Flying Ground is one of the best coverage combos in this tier. With the sixth and nineth best neutral coverage, the second and third best super-effective coverage, and only one resist, what more could you ask for?
 
I really like this tier, but I can never find anyone to battle me, which sucks. My favorite pokemon in this tier is gurdurr, since he can take on dusclops, chansey, and porygon2.
 
Anyone tried out Eviolite Monferno yet? It gets Slack Off, so something like Swords Dance / Slack Off / CC / Flare Blitz could manage a sweep. Just remove Lampent first.
 
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