I don't mean for traditional baton pass use.
Moreso as a ghetto u-turn. Can ease prediction when it comes to ghosts and the like (especially if you ahve a trapper of some sort)
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Pokémon Medicham
- Thread starter Ash Borer
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I don't mean for traditional baton pass use.
Moreso as a ghetto u-turn. Can ease prediction when it comes to ghosts and the like (especially if you ahve a trapper of some sort)
In the last slot Substitute is best overall, making Medicham completely terrifying to deal with thereafter, followed by BP (Medi can actually run Sub+BP with just STABS very effectively finding times to pass easily thanks to its forced switches and gives safe entrance to things that can handle Aegislash etc). Ice Punch is mandatory if running coverage, Fire Punch is useful to snipe or safety against Protect Ferro but TBH you're best off double switching or BPing and letting teammates trap/handle Aegislash. Fake Out is niche, yes, but is extremely viable, giving Medicham much more use against the HO teams it normally struggles with. Now that Deo is gone Medi has a niche in beating the vast majority of HO leads -- Fake Out lets it break the sash and avoid the speed tie with Mamo and Breloom, disallowing even SR to go up, kills Terrak after taking a hit or SR going up, and if you really wanna go anti-lead 20 HP EVs guarantees it doesn't get OHKO'd by Garchomp's Outrage, letting you kill it off with Ice Punch. It has a couple more emergency uses, ie picking off REALLY weakened HO mons, scouting Zards, guaranteeing the 1v1 with all Dragonite.
Ultimately the move does not play to Medicham's strengths all that well, but allowing it to adjust its role to anti-lead against teams where its matchup is usually poor has good value.
Also, although the power difference seems small, Zen Headbutt is important for netting certain O/2HKOs and the flinch odds compound your chance of beating certain would-be checks behind a Sub. For example, it always 2HKOs Clefable after SR (most important), always OHKOs offensive and SpDef Venusaur, always 2HKOs Gyarados at -1 (!_!), and is generally a surprisingly great spam move since unlike with Psycho Cut its power is actually notably better than a resisted HJK lol. Psycho Cut isn't a bad choice at all imo, but the extra BP of Zen Headbutt plays best to Mega Medicham's strengths -- he is not a timid wallbreaker.
Ultimately the move does not play to Medicham's strengths all that well, but allowing it to adjust its role to anti-lead against teams where its matchup is usually poor has good value.
Also, although the power difference seems small, Zen Headbutt is important for netting certain O/2HKOs and the flinch odds compound your chance of beating certain would-be checks behind a Sub. For example, it always 2HKOs Clefable after SR (most important), always OHKOs offensive and SpDef Venusaur, always 2HKOs Gyarados at -1 (!_!), and is generally a surprisingly great spam move since unlike with Psycho Cut its power is actually notably better than a resisted HJK lol. Psycho Cut isn't a bad choice at all imo, but the extra BP of Zen Headbutt plays best to Mega Medicham's strengths -- he is not a timid wallbreaker.
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Does MegaCham have any business staying on Aegi anyways?
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 142-168 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not even a 2HKO, unless you crit. So even on the switch, an Aegislash can fire off a Shadow Ball with ease. This is without factoring a -2 from a wrong prediction on King's Shield.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Shield Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Medicham: 204-240 (78.1 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
After 1 Shadow Ball, you're well in range of a Shadow Sneak.
It's a nice way to get some damage off on Aegislash before switching out, but I'd rather have the coverage of Ice / Thunder Punch.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 192-228 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 96-114 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
nvm, that's pretty nice lol. -2 from king's shield, though.
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 186-218 (71.2 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (no real reason to post this, just wanted to share.)
and no need to put the guaranteed OHKO from Blade-Slash.
So, maybe you can stay in on an Aegislash, but I feel like giving up your other coverage moves to take on 1 poke is kinda ugh to me. You can usually just carry some other Mon to take on Aegislash more reliably
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._. that's calced with normal cham, and that Shadowball calc is with Shield form.
Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Scizor, among a few would like to disagree.
Then again, most of them take a butt-ton of damage from HJK anyway.
And anyway, I would hate to be countered by one of the most common OU mons...
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Just gonna add in the calcs for what MegaCham can do to these guys with High Jump Kick.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 201-237 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 422-498 (119.8 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 264-312 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Based on these calcs, we can safely say that it's a good thing Mega Medicham's Speed isn't too high. This damage is ridiculous.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 158-186 (47.3 - 55.6%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 408-484 (118.6 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
The only notable difference is the lack of guaranteed 2HKO for skarm. Also, most Ferrothorn and some Skarmory like to carry protect for scouting/status damage, so I'd prefer it as an safer alternate to High-Jump miss for the common steel types of OU.
Then again, I run subDP, so never mind...
Couldn't agree more with that. If only medicham got a reliable setup move. I'd be shitting bricks if it got agility (or hell, DD as a tutor move in ORAS) , though smogonbird would still check it good.
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Yeah, this is kinda why I said "1", since HJK hits most of what you'd try to Fire Punch anyway. Fire punch does it safely, so that's a +. I just feel like there's usually a better 'mon on your team that can handle it better.
This is just a matter of preference anyway, that last slot of coverage depends on what your team needs most (fake-out eating that last 3rd slot for me).
[edit]: About Scizor:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 264-312 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Scizor: 220-261 (63.9 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 354-417 (102.9 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[edit]: Forretress as well
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 201-237 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Then again Forretress has sturdy, so it doesn't even matter lol. But look at that power.
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I doubt forretress calcs matter. No one in their right mind uses it in OU, especially since custap berry lead can't be run anymore and it's completely outclassed by skarmory since defog buff.
Also, I wouldn't want to be countered by aegislash of all things. If I want my medicham to break walls, it would be kinda lame if I can't handle the tier's best offensive wall.
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The problem with Aegislash is that MegaCham can't 2HKO it with Fire Punch, while Aegislash owns it with Shadow Ball. I'd rather deal with Aegislash using something else on the team.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 192-228 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
lol, what? Pretty sure most Aegis are going to switch into Medi like there's no tomorrow, and seeing it 2HKOs, we have something of an Aegislash check, don't we? Also, Shadow Sneak fails to OHKO with the traditional Mixed attacking spread-
4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 140-168 (53.6 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And even adamant-
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 186-218 (71.2 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
However, assuming aegislash knows prior to this that it carries fire punch, it wouldn't switch into medi in the first place, rather, it would revenge kill with shadow ball (assuming it had taken no prior damage) in which case aegi would win.
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It's not a check because King's Shield. Also, most Aegislash run 240 HP EVs and 16 Def EVs, so it should look like this.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Aegislash-Blade: 190-224 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah I know it's not a big difference, but I wanted to clear that up.
I miss calc'd that earlier, but I crossed it out after someone told me. Fire punch only becomes a possible 3HKO if Mega Cham miss predicts with King's shield:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 192-228 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 96-114 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
In this situation, the rolls could go either way, leaning a bit more on missing out of the 2HKO due to lefties. But if we use Karxrida's EV spread:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Aegislash-Shield: 190-224 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fire Punch vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Aegislash-Shield: 96-114 (29.9 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (wut)
Looks like Fire Punch is better than I thought. Still, if you run Fire Punch + Fake Out, you get walled by Gliscor. If you run Fake Out + Ice Punch, you get walled by Aegislash. Finally, if you run Fire Punch + Ice Punch, you lose your ability to revenge kill weakened Pokemon like Talonflame. Four-Move-Slot-Syndrome is a problem for this thing, but then again, there is such a thing as team building.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 262-310 (64.8 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 229-271 (56.6 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 177-208 (53.3 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 154-183 (46.3 - 55.1%) -- 64.8% chance to 2HKO
I don't think Thunder Punch is necessary.
You 2HKO Azumarill with HJK too because lol.
King's shield?
...
Oh, you mean free sub c:
However, I realise it depends on prediction on both sides (but if it's SD+KS Aegi I'm shitting bricks here)
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Now that smogonsword is out of the picture, a sub bulk set is now possible since he can drop those pesky coverage moves for an expedited set-up.
Medicham @ Medichamite
Careful/Adamant/vs: 252 atk, 96 def, 160 sp def
>substitute/baton pass
>bulk up
>Hi jump kick
>Bullet Punch/Psycho cut/ Ice punch
Careful is preferred to tank hits on both sides of the spectrum. Unfortunately his defensive stats aren't stellar, but the evs listed allow him to take some hits, SE or otherwise and slap the shit out of whoever made the mistake of doing so. Adamant can be used, but hampers his survivability.
Bulk up and HJK are compulsory. While the rest can be argued. Baton pass can be used to pass some pass bulk ups to a Mon, who ideally can suport back with Wish. Bullet punch makes up for the speed drop from the choice of careful/adamant over jolly. Psycho cut lets you hit venu and other poison and fighting types. While ice punch lets you nail the usual suspects
Though medi's defenses are far from ideal, hit does hold the advantage of hitting obscenely hard over other sub/bulk users. The combination of substitute and bulk up remediate medichams key issues which is vulnerablility to status and priority, chiefly smogonbird's BB; while also improving his abysmal defense to a usable, and frankly, threatening level.
Medicham @ Medichamite
Careful/Adamant/vs: 252 atk, 96 def, 160 sp def
>substitute/baton pass
>bulk up
>Hi jump kick
>Bullet Punch/Psycho cut/ Ice punch
Careful is preferred to tank hits on both sides of the spectrum. Unfortunately his defensive stats aren't stellar, but the evs listed allow him to take some hits, SE or otherwise and slap the shit out of whoever made the mistake of doing so. Adamant can be used, but hampers his survivability.
Bulk up and HJK are compulsory. While the rest can be argued. Baton pass can be used to pass some pass bulk ups to a Mon, who ideally can suport back with Wish. Bullet punch makes up for the speed drop from the choice of careful/adamant over jolly. Psycho cut lets you hit venu and other poison and fighting types. While ice punch lets you nail the usual suspects
Though medi's defenses are far from ideal, hit does hold the advantage of hitting obscenely hard over other sub/bulk users. The combination of substitute and bulk up remediate medichams key issues which is vulnerablility to status and priority, chiefly smogonbird's BB; while also improving his abysmal defense to a usable, and frankly, threatening level.
Would it not be advised to slash Focus Punch in on there by Hi Jump Kick since you have the option of running sub? I realize HJK is the more reliable one, but the fact it has one of the strongest SubPunches in the game could be exploited.
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