Metagame Mega Evolution in Sun & Moon

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Hm, so I'm wondering what sets will be good for Mawile this generation (my favorite mega, btw).

From what I've read here, it seems like something like this would be ideal for an SD set:

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off / Thunder Punch

(Speed EVs to outspeed Skarmory)

Both Knock Off and Thunder Punch have their uses. Thunder Punch obviously helps versus Skarmory/Celesteela/Toxapex, but all also take pretty heavy chunks from Knock Off. Knock Off provides utility and means you can bop Heatran on a switch and smack Ferrothorn.

I'm not sure what would be ideal for a 4 attack set. Maybe something like:

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Focus Punch / Fire Fang

(speed EVs to outrun defensive Celesteela variants)
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
If we at any point want to axe discussion about a mega that doesn't have a release announcement yet, I'll make this the final one.

Anyway, with the Tapu's running around and setting Terrain - there is one that was merely RU last gen, but I think will have a niche this gen. And that is Mega Camerupt:

camerupt-mega.gif


Camerupt-Mega @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Nature Power

I have tried with this set last gen (on teams that weren't very good, I'll admit...), and even now I think it has potential. The main quirk with this set is, alongside it's standard Fire/Ground coverage that has very few good switchins on it's own, is Sheer Force Nature Power, which gives it access to Tri Attack under no terrain... and then we have access to Thunderbolt and Moonblast with partnership with Tapu Koko and Tapu Fini. Let's go into a little more detail:

Thunderbolt - Partnership with Koko:
tapukoko.gif


With indirect access to Thunderbolt, it is now able to catch the likes of Pelliper and Gyarados on the switch with Tapu Koko's Electric Terrain up, as well as snipe certain bulky waters and other things that could pressure Camerupt when they settled in. Calcs:

  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 28 SpD Slowbro-Mega in Electric Terrain: 530-624 (134.8 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent in Electric Terrain: 438-516 (108.6 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Manaphy in Electric Terrain: 454-536 (133.1 - 157.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Electric Terrain: 404-476 (136 - 160.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega in Electric Terrain: 362-428 (109.3 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 240 HP / 216+ SpD Mandibuzz in Electric Terrain: 350-414 (83.1 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
You guys get the gist... it can also help as a surprise card against Rain teams that carry Skarmory or Celesteela, as Fire Blast might not be able to kill in rain. Electric is never a bad coverage type to have either, and in a way - Nature Power this gen gives Mega Camerupt said coverage it never had before.

Moonblast - Partnership with Fini
tapufini.gif


While it doesn't hit as much as Thunderbolt - Moonblast still allows Camerupt to snipe many would-be counters to Mega Camerupt on the switch such as Dragonite, Salamance and Kingdra.

  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 296-350 (98.9 - 117%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Moonblast vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 336-396 (87.7 - 103.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 322-380 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 222-262 (63.2 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kingdra: 334-394 (114.7 - 135.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
In Misty Terrain, it's also worth noting how Dragon type STAB is weakened under it, so if something along the lines of Haxorus / Zard X etc. wanted to come in - their main STAB would be weakened, and Mega Camerupt (using it's respectable natural bulk) could counter them with relative ease.

  • 252 Atk Charizard-Mega-X Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Camerupt-Mega in Misty Terrain: 214-254 (62.7 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Camerupt-Mega in Misty Terrain: 236-278 (69.2 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There are the other two Tapus as well, and I'm sure something could be done with Grassy and Psychic Terrains (Grass giving it Energy Ball to snipe Gastrodon / Swampert etc. with, alongside a little sustain at the cost of it's Ground STAB. Psychic... I'm not sure, however). Partnerships with Koko/Fini are the two best examples at the moment, and I think it's worth looking into.

Thoughts?
 
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I'm digging that set-one minor note, Grassy Terrain is actually fantastic for Mega Camerupt because EQ is the most common Ground attack, and that's halved in power (so it's neutral for Mega Camerupt) while Earth Power still gets the full damage off (Heatran is not going to be taking a 1v1 against you anyways).
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
I'm digging that set-one minor note, Grassy Terrain is actually fantastic for Mega Camerupt because EQ is the most common Ground attack, and that's halved in power (so it's neutral for Mega Camerupt) while Earth Power still gets the full damage off (Heatran is not going to be taking a 1v1 against you anyways).
Didn't know Earth Power was unaffected by the GT Ground weakening... where did you hear that?
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Only Earthquake, Bulldoze, and Magnitude are affected by it, Earth Power/Bonemerang stay the same (which is nifty for Heatran/Alolan Marowak/Kyurem-B right now).
Grassy Terrain doesn't weaken ground type moves, it weakens Earthquake Magnitude and Bulldoze
I guess that's something to consider for MegaRupt then! I wonder what other Special Ground types we have (as well as those that have Earth Power as coverage)...

But on the flipside, those mons Still aren't going to appreciate Bulu's Grass STAB lol then again not a lot does.

On a different note, Mega Camerupt's MU with Mega Mawile also seems excellent (IE: another thing for Mega Camerupt to check, and then catch switchins with coverage) - and with about 4 or 5 mons above that on the suspect chopping block (being around 6 months at the rate we're suspecting things), I think Mega Camerupt could be something the OU metagame could do with.

Mod Edit: Quit it with the memes ffs

yeah sure
 
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6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
*Insert '3 days later' time card*

Anywho - I've just looked a bit into Sheer Force Energy Ball with Mega Camerupt, and... I can't say it hits a hell of a lot else that Thunderbolt doesn't hit already (other then 4x weak things, but whatever). The only things I can see it helping VS is Rotom-W; Diggersby and Mamoswine, along with anything similar to that. Lets take a look:

  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Energy Ball vs. 44 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine in Grassy Terrain: 328-386 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 20 SpD Rotom-Wash in Grassy Terrain: 422-498 (139.2 - 164.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt-Mega Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon in Grassy Terrain: 480-566 (114.2 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That being said... as we know from comparing Electric and Misty terrains - Grass helps MegaRupt offset one of it's weaknesses respectably well:

  • 252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Camerupt-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
  • 252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Camerupt-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 134-162 (39.2 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Camerupt-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 273-322 (80 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
  • 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Camerupt-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 192-228 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
  • 240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Camerupt-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 211-250 (61.8 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
  • 0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Camerupt-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 116-140 (34 - 41%) -- 57% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
and more, as ALL of these get OHKOed by Energy Ball.

I think it goes without saying how well Mega Camerupt can abuse terrain, judging by ALL we have discussed up to this point. Tell me if I've missed anything guys!
 
I have a question about Mega Evolution- If we know that certain mega stones are coming soon, why can't we just allow them when they're announced and given a date? I bet there's a super obvious reason, but I'm new here, so I don't know.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
I have a question about Mega Evolution- If we know that certain mega stones are coming soon, why can't we just allow them when they're announced and given a date? I bet there's a super obvious reason, but I'm new here, so I don't know.
It's something to do with 'the ladders are reflective of what is currently available on the cartridges'. in the SQSA thread, I (and a few others) bought up the potential of an 'unreleased megas' ladder, similar to the 'no megas' ladder in Gen 6, and the joke 'no Scald UU' ladder that was there at one point.

Here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ask-a-simple-question-get-a-simple-answer-ps-edition-please-read-before-posting-a-thread.3520646/page-65#post-7211954
 
Voltturn has been looking great in gen 7, and I'm super excited for a strong teammate for voltturn spam, mega pidgeot, to be released tomorrow (I think). And I can't wait for it to be... possibly disappointing. A base speed of 121 is frustratingly slower than greninja's base 122 speed, meaning it cannot deal with protean ice beams or specs boosted hydro pumps by retaliating with u-turn. Also, the somewhat offensively omnipresent tapu koko consumes flying fortresses for breakfast, let alone pigeons. Things look grim for the birb...

But! There are some things that the megabirb can do for voltturn that others cannot in one package! For one, free hurricanes followed by u-turns can give BO/balance nightmares, not to forget that it makes a great answer for things that many voltturn teammates can struggle with, like ferrothorn or heatran. It's also one of the few lures to the bane of voltturn in my opinion, rotom-w. A hurricane backed by a hyper beam KO's rotom-w after tiny bit of chip damage, which isn't hard to get on a voltturn team. I'm contemplating a set like this:



megabirb (Pidgeot-Mega) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Ground] / Hyper Beam
- U-turn

No Guard Hurricane is what you're here for, and heat wave nails the likes of scizor and ferrothorn, which teammates on a voltturn team can struggle with. The third move depends on what the team struggles with, whether it's zygarde-50 and friends, heatran, or rotom-w. U-turn keeps the offensive momentum going.

Kokoninja has become a standard core, but it relies on a ton of u-turn spam or brave bird koko to get past grass types, notably venusaur-mega. It also struggles with rotom-w, which can turn momentum around on both members of the core. So I propose... pikokoninja!




I could see pikokoninja (lol the name could use some work) being great teammates to form a scary voltturn core, breaking each other's checks and counters until one of them pushes through and smashes the rest of the team. Koko breaks the steel/flyings, bulky waters, and dark resists. Ash Greninja breaks a large remaining portion of the tier that is at least neutral to the stab combination of water/dark. Mega Pidgeot can break what the other two cannot. With a combination of hurricane, heat wave, and hyper beam, the bulky grasses die, 4x fire weakness walls die, and rotom-w dies. You could probably splash on a defensive lando-t for a slow u-turn, fini for defogging and stallbreaking, and some type of setup sweeper, like volcarona to handle water-ground pokes and set up on scarf lele... dibs on me for coming up with this team first! xP unless it sucks, which I sorta do so... I'll just awkwardly leave my rarely-posted thoughts here and go.

EDIT: one individual typo
 

Leo

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Voltturn has been looking great in gen 7, and I'm super excited for a strong teammate for voltturn spam, mega pidgeot, to be released tomorrow (I think). And I can't wait for it to be... possibly disappointing. A base speed of 121 is frustratingly slower than greninja's base 122 speed, meaning it cannot deal with protean ice beams or specs boosted hydro pumps by retaliating with u-turn. Also, the somewhat offensively omnipresent tapu koko consumes flying fortresses for breakfast, let alone pigeons. Things look grim for the birb...

But! There are some things that the megabirb can do for voltturn that others cannot in one package! For one, free hurricanes followed by u-turns can give BO/balance nightmares, not to forget that it makes a great answer for things that many voltturn teammates can struggle with, like ferrothorn or heatran. It's also one of the few lures to the bane of voltturn in my opinion, rotom-w. A hurricane backed by a hyper beam KO's rotom-w after tiny bit of chip damage, which isn't hard to get on a voltturn team. I'm contemplating a set like this:



megabirb (Pidgeot-Mega) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Ground] / Hyper Beam
- U-turn

No Guard Hurricane is what you're here for, and heat wave nails the likes of scizor and ferrothorn, which teammates on a voltturn team can struggle with. The third move depends on what the team struggles with, whether it's zygarde-50 and friends, heatran, or rotom-w. U-turn keeps the offensive momentum going.

Kokoninja has become a standard core, but it relies on a ton of u-turn spam or brave bird koko to get past grass types, notably venusaur-mega. It also struggles with rotom-w, which can turn momentum around on both members of the core. So I propose... pikokoninja!




I could see pikokoninja (lol the name could use some work) being great teammates to form a scary voltturn core, breaking each other's checks and counters until one of them pushes through and smashes the rest of the team. Koko breaks the steel/flyings, bulky waters, and dark resists. Ash Greninja breaks a large remaining portion of the tier that is at least neutral to the stab combination of water/dark. Mega Pidgeot can break what the other two cannot. With a combination of hurricane, heat wave, and hyper beam, the bulky grasses die, 4x fire weakness walls die, and rotom-w dies. You could probably splash on a defensive lando-t for a slow u-turn, fini for defogging and stallbreaking, and some type of setup sweeper, like volcarona to handle water-ground pokes and set up on scarf lele... dibs on me for coming up with this team first! xP unless it sucks, which I sorta do so... I'll just awkwardly leave my rarely-posted thoughts here and go.

EDIT: one individual typo
That Pidgeot set is outclassed by Life Orb Tornadus, the only viable set would be Stallbreaker from last gen which also struggles to break Stall so yeah you're better off using Tornadus on that Voltturn core.
ps: No Guard isn't a good niche over Tornadus
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
I don't think Mega Pidgeot will be THAT bad. After all, you don't need to be in rain just to hit one of your STABs, and has direct access to Roost, which may come in handy in situations where Regenerator may not. If I remember correctly, soul3reaper did come up with a Mega Pidgeot set to beat Wonder Trio with - which was:

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Tangled Feet
EVs: 224 HP / 32 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Refresh
- Work Up

Not sure how good it would be this gen, but hey... we'll see!
 

Leo

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I don't think Mega Pidgeot will be THAT bad. After all, you don't need to be in rain just to hit one of your STABs, and has direct access to Roost, which may come in handy in situations where Regenerator may not. If I remember correctly, soul3reaper did come up with a Mega Pidgeot set to beat Wonder Trio with - which was:

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Tangled Feet
EVs: 224 HP / 32 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Refresh
- Work Up

Not sure how good it would be this gen, but hey... we'll see!
Yeah that's the stallbreaker set I meant (btw that user didn't come up with it, it was a thing long before he even made his acc) and it's Pidge's only "niche", that's why my point was there's no point in using 4 attacks Pidgeot instead of Torn-T
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Updated the thread to reflect Pidgeotite and Steelixite being released. Feel free to discuss them here if you must (but they're both bad :toast:)
 
Can we also discuss Mega Sceptile, since we know it's the next in line to be released(alongside Blaziken)? It's probably not good but it is at least better than Pidgeot and Steelix.
 
I think Mega Sceptile will make a great addition to Mono-Grass, which at the moment has very few fast threats (RIP Kartana), and I'm personally looking forward to using it along side Tapu Bulu to get the Grassy Surge boost.
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Yeah feel free to discuss Sceptile, any confirmed-to-be-released Megas can be discussed here (not Blaziken though, it's obviously still broken).
 
I think Mega Sceptile will make a great addition to Mono-Grass, which at the moment has very few fast threats (RIP Kartana), and I'm personally looking forward to using it along side Tapu Bulu to get the Grassy Surge boost.
This isn't the place to discuss monotype.

M-Pidgeot may find a niche in being the only good special flying type spammer, opposite Pinsir as the physical spammer. Tornadus and Pelipper work on Rain teams, sure, but Hurricane is too inaccurate otherwise and their SpA isn't as good as Pidgeot's. The only other STAB flying types with decent moves are Celesteela and Skarmory, one of which has an attack with low BP (Cele) and the other has a low Attack (Skarmory). Most other OU flying types rely on two turn moves (SSSS users such as Landorus, Gyarados, Dragonite ig, and Salamence), or just have to use HP Flying (lol Thundurus), or just aren't really relevant.

Flying/Fire coverage with u-turn access is great, so I could definitely see M-Pidgeot making an appearance on volt-turn teams (though competing for a spot with M-Beedrill and M-Scizor will be difficult).
 
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I don't think that Mega Sceptile will do even a bit of impact in the meta, but it can do some things that are cool:

252 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 292-345 (103.9 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Tapu Fini: 330-390 (96.2 - 113.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 278-330 (92.9 - 110.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 344-408 (115.8 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 314-372 (87.9 - 104.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 344-408 (96 - 113.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

80 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 300-356 (95.8 - 113.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

80 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 320-380 (82.9 - 98.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 109-130 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery + 252 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 168-198 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery = 2HKO on standard Toxapex


252 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 306-362 (89.4 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


Plus, I think it will be a pain for rain teams too
 
I don't think that Mega Sceptile will do even a bit of impact in the meta, but it can do some things that are cool:

252 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 292-345 (103.9 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Include the ability to switch into Koko's Thunderbolts for free, get to +1 and making switching in harder.

Not important enough, though, but with the Mega Speed buff and overall priority nerfs it may be slightly better than in ORAS... but possibly more outclassed seeing as the Mega slot is preferably used on a certain Steel-type Pokemon...
 
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