Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpA
Quite Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Water Spout
I decided to use Kyogre as one of my cores. It is bulky enough to take on Raichu's zap plated volt tackle but has difficulties taking on opposing Kyogre carrying thunder. It is quite nature to out-slow my own Cresselia for it to skill swap back the rain against opposing Groudons.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
-Protect
-Geomancy
-Moonblast
-Grass Knot
This is the second core. I needed a possible setup and just sweep mon so I took Xerneas. It is a standard Xerneas set that runs Grassknot that has a chance to OTK opposing Kyogres and uninvested Groudons.
Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Protect
-Iron Tail
-Blaze Kick
-Close Combat
This is the niche pick. The speed is EVed such that it will outspeed all non-scarfed and pre-geomancy Xerneas and OTK with Iron Tail. It carries Blaze Kick to catch opposing Ferrothorns and Scizors, Pokemon that this team will have problems dealing with. Luc also carries moves to deal with follow me and rage powder users to better stop set-ups.
Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 224 HP / 200 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Icy Wind
- Lunar Dance
- Protect
I wanted a mon to help reset weather against opposing Groudons. It outspeeds Kyorge so it can reset weather with skill swap before Kyogre launches Origin Pulse. It has Icy Wind to help slowdown opposing mons because this team has abit of an issue with speed. Lunar Dance to potentially bring back high value mons.
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
My bird check and Intimidate user. I wanted a mon that has the potential to just out hax the enemy with scarf rock slide, earthquake is for coverage, mainly Primal Groudon. Knock off incase the enemy has something important to get rid of. Just standard scarf Lando.
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Moody
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Spiky Shield
- Follow Me
- Dark Void
This slot has had a multitude of changes, from Liepard to Thundurus to this. I wanted to preserve a status and fake out user as well as having a mon to allow my Xerneas to set-up should it be one of those games. Spiky shield over protect cause noone targets smeargle with status. Dark void for a strong status effect.
If it would help, here is the move set of the Liepard and Thundurus I replaced.
Liepard:
Fake Out
Foul Play (Encore might have been better but didn't think of it then)
Thunder Wave
Taunt
Thundurus:
Thunder Wave
Taunt
Thundebolt
Protect
Please feel free to suggest any edits you feel is relevant
Hey man, thanks for updating your descriptions :)
As I said the team looks pretty interesting, but there are a couple things you could do to improve it.
First up, let's look at mega lucario, and the role it plays on your team:
So typically, mega lucario would run quite a supportive set, for example:
Close Combat | Follow Me | Feint | Protect
On your team however, it looks like it fills the role of
ferrothorn counter with blaze kick which is pretty interesting (although adaptability close combat will still OHKO most ferrothorn). However, Lucario struggles to win against xerneas with only non-priority moves (especially when xern is paired with redirection support e.g smeargle), so
bullet punch would definitely help here. However, I wouldn't class lucario as a xerneas counter, as xerneas can one shot lucario even with a non-boosted moonblast, and when paired with redirection support can take it out pretty easily.
The most vital role I would say that mega lucario fulfills is a
mega kangaskhan counter, as it can reliably take a fake out in non-mega form (thanks to inner focus) and retaliate with a close combat to take kang out. This role can be achieved by both mega and non-mega sets, so if you want to switch to a more supportive lucario set for redirection support, then that's totally fine.
Mega lucario's fantastic base 112 speed allows it to outpace max speed thundurus, 252 Spe adamant talonflame and everything below that (gengar, raichu, kangaskhan etc), so running a max speed set would be ideal here instead of limiting your speed tier to just xerneas (which makes lucario speed tie with kangaskhan). A max speed set would also mean that talonflame would not be able to use flare blitz on lucario without lucario attacking first, which can lead to some interesting plays. I remember back in 2014 when Blake Hopper used an offensive rock slide mega lucario to catch some players out who where using adamant talonflame (although I wouldn't recommend this set).
(This was the article if you want to have a read, the team was really fun to play back then:
http://nuggetbridge.com/blogs/entry...-a-5th-place-missouri-regional-team-analysis/)
With all this in mind, here is my recommended set for lucario:
Lucario @ Focus Sash / Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Feint / Bullet Punch
- Follow Me
- Protect
Just looking over the xerneas-kyogre framework*, the role of ferrothorn check does come up. If you want to improve upon the role that this slot fulfills, then I would suggest running
Fire Blast Mega Salamence in this spot over lucario, as this not only provides a solid counter to ferrothorn, but to primal groudon too, which frees up a couple slots for extra additions
*
Xerneas + Primal Kyogre General Framework
1.
Kyogre
2.
Xerneas
3.
Ferrothorn check - Ferrothorn is one of the biggest threats to either xerneas and primal kyogre. To handle it, it is useful in this slot to use a pokemon with a fire type attack, such as Talonflame (probably your best bet) or Infernape. This slot should be able to OHKO Ferrothorn or even KO it after a Water Spout / Origin Pulse from kyogre. Fire Blast Mega Salamence and even Fire Fang Mega Mawile can work in this slot
4.
Physical Groudon check - In all sample teams so far, mega salamence is used as a physical groudon check, as it provides extremely valuable intimidate support as well as being able to take primal groudon's STABs. It provides a form of spammable offense in hyper voice which can be used next to xerneas in a sweep, as well as a mega rayquaza counter. Mega salamence is also used in all sample teams as a ferrothorn counter, freeing up the last two slots.
5.
Primal Kyogre check - This slot should either be able to OHKO primal kyogre or do decent damage to it without taking much damage back. Examples include: Raichu (able to OHKO primal kyogre with zap plate (or otherwise) boosted volt tackle, Ferrothorn (OHKOs/2HKOs primal kyogre with power whip (depending on the spread) and amoonguss (able to 3HKO primal kyogre with grass knot: 0 SpA Amoonguss Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Primal Kyogre: 78-92 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)
6.
Mega / Secondary Mega / Support - This slot (or two slots if you chose fire blast mega salamence) should ensure there are no gaps in the team surrounding what you want from supporting mons. Speed control, taunt, fake out, xerneas counters and redirection are all popular choices. Example mons: crobat, mega kangaskhan, mega mawile, scizor, togekiss and gengar.
The frameworks thread:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-16-teambuilding-frameworks.3564141/
If you want to switch to salamence, which I would strongly recommend to try out, then here's a sample set:
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 20 Def / 204 SpA / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
*EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Draco Meteor / *
Double-Edge
- Fire Blast
- Protect
*This spread belongs with Double-Edge
I have included two sets here for your choosing. The timid set focuses on the special spectrum for mega salamence, optimizing its matchup against RayOgre teams. It can survive an icicle crash from -1 non-life orb weavile, as well as a moonblast from non-boosted xerneas, with the rest in SpA and Spe, making a pretty effective set. The second naive set allows salamence to have an easier time against double primal teams, as double-edge simply does more damage to kyogre. Of the two, I would probably choose the timid set since rayquaza (+support vs xerneas) is a pretty big threat to your team, but it's totally up to you.
Looking over the rest of your team, I see that you are using a very slow kyogre without a trick room mode, only to optimize the use of a slow skill swap user with icy wind as speed control. What I suggest you do here is use a
fast skill swap user that has practically the same support with more offensive presence etc.
That pokemon is
sash gengar.
Sash gengar would provide invaluable support for your team in taunt, and would mean you have an extra check to kangaskhan, smeargle and xerneas with its typing and moveset.
Here's a sample set:
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Taunt
- Icy Wind
- Skill Swap
There's not much i need to explain here, skill swap can lead to some awesome shenanigans with say parental bond -> kyogre etc, and taunt is incredibly useful for smeargle leads.
So from looking at your sets for kyogre and xerneas, I have a couple of suggestions.
Kyogre
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 172 Def / 60 SpA / 4 SpD / 132 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder / Water Spout
-
Icy Wind
- Protect
This is a pretty cool spread created by
SamVGC that I think you might be interested in.
Just a quick note, both of my suggestions for legends will try to optimise your matchup versus the common groudon/kyogre/salamence/thundurus core going round the ladder at the moment. This set takes 2 precipice blades from jolly groudon (3HKO), and will outspeed mega salamence after an icy wind.
Thunder just allows you to hit opposing kyogre so that you're less worried about the matchup (and anyways i don't think many kyogre on the groudon/kyogre/thundurus/salamence core carry thunder).
If you want to run a more offensive spread, then a spread of
204 HP / 60 Def / 84 SpA / 4 SpD / 156 Spe with a
timid nature will allow you to outspeed max speed neutral base 90s, as well as surviving power whip from ferrothorn and dragon ascent from mega rayquaza. I would run ice beam over icy wind if you decide on that spread for general offensive presence.
Xerneas
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 84 HP / 188 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
EVs: 44 HP / 4 Def / 188 SpA / 20 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
So with xerneas you can go one of two ways: bulky or fast
Before i go into set details, I just want to say that xerneas should really be using dazzling gleam on a geomancy set so that it can deal as much damage as possible to the opposing team.
Bulky xerneas is something I would say is emerging in this meta, as it threatens the previously mentioned groudon/kyogre/thundurus/salamence core because it isn't 2HKO'd by groudon's precipice blades (or eruption when at +2 SpD). When using the above core vs teams like this, they virtually have to lead groudon thundurus, so this calc is really appreciated, and makes xerneas a pretty big threat. Here are some nice damage calcs that the modest set achives:
- 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 84 HP / 188 Def Xerneas: 93-109 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Eruption (150 BP) vs. 84 HP / 4 SpD Xerneas in Harsh Sun: 178-211 (83.9 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Eruption (150 BP) vs. +2 84 HP / 4 SpD Xerneas in Harsh Sun: 88-105 (41.5 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 84 HP / 188 Def Xerneas: 46-55 (21.6 - 25.9%) -- Miniscule chance to 4HKO
- 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 84 HP / 188 Def Xerneas: 130-155 (61.3 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- *** Fake Out+Double-Edge from Kangaskhan does up to 99%
- 252 SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 84 HP / 4 SpD Xerneas in Heavy Rain: 184-217 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
- 252 SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. +2 84 HP / 4 SpD Xerneas in Heavy Rain: 93-109 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
- 252 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 84 HP / 188 Def Xerneas: 180-212 (84.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
- Outspeeds 252 Spe base 90s (i.e it can take 2 eruptions / 2 water spouts after a geomancy)
The timid spread is relatively simple, it takes an eruption from primal groudon and a dragon ascent from mega rayquaza. It also has a little more SpA than the bulky set, but again the choice is completely up to you. Going timid just optimises your xerneas matchup, allowing a 50/50 to be a little more winnable thanks to the speed tie
Regarding your last slot, I would say that
amoonguss would probably be your best bet here as you need a trick room check, and without it kyogre kind of sweeps your team when xerneas is gone. It also helps out vs opposing xerneas which is pretty necessary for your team.
Here's my sample set:
Amoonguss @ Mental Herb
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 44 Def / 244 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Clear Smog
- Grass Knot
This amoonguss set will just optimize your matchup against a couple threats to your team: Yveltal+Thundurus leads, xerneas and kangaskhan, as shown below
- 252 Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 220 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 183-216 (84.3 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 220 HP / 244+ SpD Amoonguss: 91-108 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 220 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 189-223 (87 - 102.7%) -- 9.8% chance to OHKO
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 220 HP / 244+ SpD Amoonguss in Heavy Rain: 84-99 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Mental herb is a great little item on amoonguss that means that it can keep using rage powder once it has been taunted (or it could spore the taunter first), so that xerneas can keep attacking.
Smeargle is still totally fine in this spot, so feel free to keep using it, but just be aware that it makes you a little weaker vs kyogre. Xerneas really needs redirection support to be effective in this meta so anything with follow me or rage powder is great support.
Here are some importables for the teams I recommend:
With Lucario:
http://pastebin.com/b18Er3Hz
Without Lucario:
http://pastebin.com/ic0MV3Ht
And that's it :D
Hope I've helped, and best of luck with your team!
EDIT: Something I forgot, Landorus-T is fine using a scarf set, but if you want to have a little more offensive presence, then choice band achieves all of the speed benchmarks it needs and provides a means of checking ferrothorn too (with superpower). Assault Vest sets are just as viable, and if you want a sample set just ask me :)
