How's this one going, Dramps? Are all the G Max Megas firmly decided and unchanging from now on? :D
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Pet Mod Megamax (Quick Update @ Post #432)
- Thread starter Yung Dramps
- Start date
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Yes, that is until we get Urshifu + hopefully some other new gmaxes when IoA launches :p
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Just an FYI for everyone: I'll be waiting just a bit to see how the two Urshifu forms fare in NatDex OU. From there I'll decide whether to make them OU or Ubers
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
It's time boys and girls
Slate #11: Urshifu Unleashed
A small one this time around for what are (sadly) the only remaining DLC GMaxes to convert! Due to the discrepancy in viability between the two, Mega Single Strike Urshifu will be designed for Ubers while Rapid Strike will be designed for OU. Maximum of 2 new moves for both.
Slate #11: Urshifu Unleashed
A small one this time around for what are (sadly) the only remaining DLC GMaxes to convert! Due to the discrepancy in viability between the two, Mega Single Strike Urshifu will be designed for Ubers while Rapid Strike will be designed for OU. Maximum of 2 new moves for both.
Pokemon Name: Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Mega Stone Name: Urshifunite R
Stats: 100 / 145 / 110 / 108 / 80 / 117 (+15 Atk, +10 Def, +45 SpA, +20 SpD, +20 Spe)
Typing: Water / Fighting
Ability: Unseen Fist
New Moves: Water Shuriken, Hydro Pump
Competitive Description: A 'mon relying on its decent bulk and speed tier Decent, if not great speed tier allows Urshifu to outspeed and punish/pivot out notable targets in the 110 and 115 speed tiers. Its a lot bulkier than Greninja, and primarily physical based. Used in rain too to eventually overwhelm rain's non immuniy checks, like hitting Ferro and Chansey (if the former is relevant). It still faces problems with Toxapex and other water counters.
Mega Stone Name: Urshifunite R
Stats: 100 / 145 / 110 / 108 / 80 / 117 (+15 Atk, +10 Def, +45 SpA, +20 SpD, +20 Spe)
Typing: Water / Fighting
Ability: Unseen Fist
New Moves: Water Shuriken, Hydro Pump
Competitive Description: A 'mon relying on its decent bulk and speed tier Decent, if not great speed tier allows Urshifu to outspeed and punish/pivot out notable targets in the 110 and 115 speed tiers. Its a lot bulkier than Greninja, and primarily physical based. Used in rain too to eventually overwhelm rain's non immuniy checks, like hitting Ferro and Chansey (if the former is relevant). It still faces problems with Toxapex and other water counters.
Ability: Hustle
HP: 100
Att: 160 (+30)
Def: 110 (+10)
SpA: 73 (+10)
SpD: 80 (+20)
Spe: 127 (+30)
Single Strike Urshifu is all about them OHKOs. It doesn't hold anything back: if it sees a target, it's going to charge straight at that target and give it a single smacc, because a single smacc is all it needs. Translated into game mechanics, it hits fast and devastatingly hard. However, its brazen fighting style makes it somewhat predictable and thus easy to dodge, so it sometimes struggles to land that fatal blow.
Ability: Analytic
HP: 100
Att: 130
Def: 140 (+40)
SpA: 83 (+20)
SpD: 110 (+50)
Spe: 87 (-10)
Rapid Strike Urshifu is much more reserved. It patiently studies its foe's patterns before unleashing a flurry of blows when the time is right. Its titanic bulk allows it to withstand incoming attacks, and it's most effective when it's able to analyze the opponent for a weak point.
I don't see Mega Single Strike playing all that differently from regular Single Strike, but Mega Rapid Strike's slow and defensive inclination opens a few interesting options. Close Combat is no longer as desirable, as it cuts into Urshifu's bulk. With Close Combat not being the go-to STAB, three Fighting moves rise up. Drain Punch provides recovery to augment Urshifu's bulk. Body Press draws from Urshifu's Defense, which is now even higher than its Attack. Finally, Revenge could be a cool way to nab an Analytic boost against slower targets and use that boost to deliver a blow even stronger than Close Combat.
Pokemon Name: Urshifu-Rapid-Strike-Mega
Mega Stone Name: Urshifunite R
Stats: 100/145/120/78/100/107 (+15 Atk, +20 Def, +15 SpA, +40 SpD, +10 Spe)
Typing: Water / Fighting
Ability: Unseen Fist
New Moves: Triple Axel, Arm Thrust
Competitive Description: MOAR MULTI HIT
Pokemon Name: Urshifu-Single-Strike-Mega
Mega Stone Name: Urshifunite S
Stats: 100/175/100/63/85/127 (+45 Atk, +25 SpD, +30 Spe)
Typing: Dark / Fighting
Ability: Unseen Fist
New Moves: Meteor Assault, Flare Blitz
Competitive Description: OHKO EVERYTHING
Ill edit them later, feedback is accepted
Mega Stone Name: Urshifunite R
Stats: 100/145/120/78/100/107 (+15 Atk, +20 Def, +15 SpA, +40 SpD, +10 Spe)
Typing: Water / Fighting
Ability: Unseen Fist
New Moves: Triple Axel, Arm Thrust
Competitive Description: MOAR MULTI HIT
Pokemon Name: Urshifu-Single-Strike-Mega
Mega Stone Name: Urshifunite S
Stats: 100/175/100/63/85/127 (+45 Atk, +25 SpD, +30 Spe)
Typing: Dark / Fighting
Ability: Unseen Fist
New Moves: Meteor Assault, Flare Blitz
Competitive Description: OHKO EVERYTHING
Ill edit them later, feedback is accepted
Gimmick tiiime
Pokémon name:
Mega Urshifu (Single Strike Style)
Mega Stone name: Urshifusite
Stats: 100 HP / 160 Attack (+30) / 115 Defense (+15) / 79 Special Attack (+16) / 70 Special Defense (+10) / 126 Speed (+29)
Typing: Fighting/Dark
Ability: Nemesis (the user immediately uses Psych Up on entry)
New moves: Psych Up purely because the Ability would be flavorfully awkward without it - it doesn't need to run it!
Pokémon name:
Mega Urshifu (Rapid Strike Style)
Mega Stone name: Urshifurite
Stats: 100 HP / 151 Attack (+21) / 149 Defense (+49) / 63 Special Attack / 86 Special Defense (+26) / 101 Speed (+4)
Typing: Fighting/Water
Ability: Deliverance (the user immediately uses Haze on entry)
New moves: Haze purely because the Ability would be flavorfully awkward without it - it doesn't need to run it!
Side note: if one of my submissions wins but not the other, please replace "Urshifusite" and "Urshifurite" with whatever is the most sensible counterpart of the other winner! I care more about the stones matching than I do about getting to name them, haha.
Pokémon name:
Mega Stone name: Urshifusite
Stats: 100 HP / 160 Attack (+30) / 115 Defense (+15) / 79 Special Attack (+16) / 70 Special Defense (+10) / 126 Speed (+29)
Typing: Fighting/Dark
Ability: Nemesis (the user immediately uses Psych Up on entry)
New moves: Psych Up purely because the Ability would be flavorfully awkward without it - it doesn't need to run it!
The concept of Mega Urshifu (Single Strike Style) revolves entirely around its new Ability, Nemesis, which allows it to take advantage of common setup sweepers and countersweep if given a free switch, including if it comes in after an ally is knocked out. The goal is to make it an anti-setup Pokémon/countersweeper in line with Marshadow.
When determining its stats, I focused specifically on Pokémon that Urshifu needed to be able to threaten to fulfill its purpose ("pro-concept" targets), then zeroed in on the matchups that I thought would be the toughest without special attention: opposing setup sweepers with type advantages over Urshifu.
With this in mind, these stats are designed to secure favorable matchups with Landorus-T, Shift Gear Magearna, Marshadow (stealing back stolen boosts is too funny), Swords Dance Mega Blaziken, any Mega Lucario, Dragon Dance Mega Salamence and Dragon Dance Rayquaza after they've set up. The goal is that it can reliably force them out and punish them for setting up while still being healthy enough to take advantage of its newfound boosts. A straightforward set with Wicked Blow, Close Combat and Ice Punch takes care of all of these given maximum Speed, Attack and a Speed-boosting nature.
(It also manages to beat Pheromosa, another Pokémon in the Ubers metagame that can raise its stats, but barely - the +15 Defense is so it can avoid a one-hit KO from Low Kick reliably assuming no prior chip so it can hit back and one-hit KO, but this one is pretty shaky and leaves Urshifu vulnerable to priority, so it's unlikely to be a full countersweep. Even so, Pheromosa is a physical setup sweeper, and Urshifu's job is to inhibit physical setup sweepers - this is a relevant matchup all the same.)
Notably, if Urshifu hasn't already Mega Evolved by the time a setup sweeper comes in, the worst it can do is force it out prematurely; on the other hand, if Urshifu manages to Mega Evolve earlier in the battle while preserving its condition, simply coming in can put the opponent into a disadvantageous position, as it keeps its new boosts even if its target switches out without allowing itself to be defeated. For this reason, U-turn is an excellent choice for a fourth move - it allows Urshifu to Mega Evolve early on and then leave unscathed so that it remains a constant presence in the battle and the fear of its arrival can stop opponents from daring to set up.
That said, while that means it can easily tear through many disadvantageous type matchups under the right circumstances, I was careful to make sure that it retained several counters and wouldn't just wreck the tier. As it has no way to capitalize on Special Attack boosts and has abysmal special bulk for the tier, Urshifu struggles with its matchups against many common special attackers, including some that use setup moves, as well as some physical attackers that simply hit harder and faster without boosting. Flying and Fairy Arceus, Mega Lopunny, Mega Mewtwo X, Tapu Koko, Scarf Tapu Lele, Yveltal, Zacian-C and Scarf Zacian are all (probably viable) Pokémon that can reliably beat Urshifu.
On the less reliable side, Urshifu can beat Mega Diancie in neutral situations, but only if Diancie hasn't received a Defense boost from Diamond Storm, meaning Diancie can bypass any potential Nemesis shenanigans. Non-Mega Diancie, which has seen use in AG this Gen but may not be as relevant in a non-Dynamax meta, can reliably beat Urshifu without prior damage. Klefki of all things, though it prefers to run Play Rough, can also check Urshifu if it runs Dazzling Gleam.
Somewhat amusingly, considering their similarities, Urshifu also fears Ditto, which can copy its boosts, outspeed it and dispatch it with its own super effective STAB. One day, I want to witness a match involving a setup sweeper, a Marshadow, a Mega Urshifu and a Ditto.
When determining its stats, I focused specifically on Pokémon that Urshifu needed to be able to threaten to fulfill its purpose ("pro-concept" targets), then zeroed in on the matchups that I thought would be the toughest without special attention: opposing setup sweepers with type advantages over Urshifu.
With this in mind, these stats are designed to secure favorable matchups with Landorus-T, Shift Gear Magearna, Marshadow (stealing back stolen boosts is too funny), Swords Dance Mega Blaziken, any Mega Lucario, Dragon Dance Mega Salamence and Dragon Dance Rayquaza after they've set up. The goal is that it can reliably force them out and punish them for setting up while still being healthy enough to take advantage of its newfound boosts. A straightforward set with Wicked Blow, Close Combat and Ice Punch takes care of all of these given maximum Speed, Attack and a Speed-boosting nature.
(It also manages to beat Pheromosa, another Pokémon in the Ubers metagame that can raise its stats, but barely - the +15 Defense is so it can avoid a one-hit KO from Low Kick reliably assuming no prior chip so it can hit back and one-hit KO, but this one is pretty shaky and leaves Urshifu vulnerable to priority, so it's unlikely to be a full countersweep. Even so, Pheromosa is a physical setup sweeper, and Urshifu's job is to inhibit physical setup sweepers - this is a relevant matchup all the same.)
Notably, if Urshifu hasn't already Mega Evolved by the time a setup sweeper comes in, the worst it can do is force it out prematurely; on the other hand, if Urshifu manages to Mega Evolve earlier in the battle while preserving its condition, simply coming in can put the opponent into a disadvantageous position, as it keeps its new boosts even if its target switches out without allowing itself to be defeated. For this reason, U-turn is an excellent choice for a fourth move - it allows Urshifu to Mega Evolve early on and then leave unscathed so that it remains a constant presence in the battle and the fear of its arrival can stop opponents from daring to set up.
That said, while that means it can easily tear through many disadvantageous type matchups under the right circumstances, I was careful to make sure that it retained several counters and wouldn't just wreck the tier. As it has no way to capitalize on Special Attack boosts and has abysmal special bulk for the tier, Urshifu struggles with its matchups against many common special attackers, including some that use setup moves, as well as some physical attackers that simply hit harder and faster without boosting. Flying and Fairy Arceus, Mega Lopunny, Mega Mewtwo X, Tapu Koko, Scarf Tapu Lele, Yveltal, Zacian-C and Scarf Zacian are all (probably viable) Pokémon that can reliably beat Urshifu.
On the less reliable side, Urshifu can beat Mega Diancie in neutral situations, but only if Diancie hasn't received a Defense boost from Diamond Storm, meaning Diancie can bypass any potential Nemesis shenanigans. Non-Mega Diancie, which has seen use in AG this Gen but may not be as relevant in a non-Dynamax meta, can reliably beat Urshifu without prior damage. Klefki of all things, though it prefers to run Play Rough, can also check Urshifu if it runs Dazzling Gleam.
Somewhat amusingly, considering their similarities, Urshifu also fears Ditto, which can copy its boosts, outspeed it and dispatch it with its own super effective STAB. One day, I want to witness a match involving a setup sweeper, a Marshadow, a Mega Urshifu and a Ditto.
Actually, there's a much stronger option that fulfills a specific purpose, but I wasn't sure if it was worth the potential problems - the only intended benefit of this changed spread is that Urshifu can beat Zacian-C after rocks or any other chip. I would consider this matchup to be incredibly pro-concept - Zacian-C is one of the strongest Pokémon in the Ubers and AG metas alike, and it's one of the only Pokémon that always has a boost thanks to Intrepid Sword, so making it possible for Urshifu to take advantage of that would give it an immediate presence in the tier and take great advantage of its signature Nemesis.
This is the variation that can beat Zacian-C:
Stats: 100 HP / 161 Attack (+31) / 115 Defense (+15) / 65 Special Attack (+2) / 60 Special Defense / 149 Speed (+52)
(There is no way for Urshifu to beat Scarf Zacian with either stat spread.)
Unfortunately, due to its type, the only way for this to be possible is by outspeeding Zacian-C, which means a massive boost of 23 points to Speed (and 1 to Attack to remove a roll). This Speed increase most likely has unintended consequences on many other losing matchups that may or may not be desirable.
With that said, I'm somewhat worried that this stat spread is too good against everything else - in the sense that it makes Urshifu less dependent on acquiring boosts to be successful. While I obviously want it to be able to succeed in the Ubers meta, I also consider it important to keep the focus on Nemesis and not just make a generically strong Pokémon. Urshifu is meant to deter haphazard use of setup moves, but the goal wasn't really to make it an insanely good win condition even when the opponent doesn't give it any boosts to steal.
That said, I might be overestimating this spread, and it's possible that losing to such a prevalent Pokémon would do more harm to its place in the tier than having a few unintended winning matchups; base 160 Attack without the benefit of an item might also be on the low end for an offensive Pokémon in the tier, making its weak Special Defense more exploitable and still incentivizing it to steal boosts wherever possible.
With that in mind, this alternative is still a serious consideration, and I would appreciate feedback on which spread would be the better choice!
This is the variation that can beat Zacian-C:
Stats: 100 HP / 161 Attack (+31) / 115 Defense (+15) / 65 Special Attack (+2) / 60 Special Defense / 149 Speed (+52)
(There is no way for Urshifu to beat Scarf Zacian with either stat spread.)
Unfortunately, due to its type, the only way for this to be possible is by outspeeding Zacian-C, which means a massive boost of 23 points to Speed (and 1 to Attack to remove a roll). This Speed increase most likely has unintended consequences on many other losing matchups that may or may not be desirable.
With that said, I'm somewhat worried that this stat spread is too good against everything else - in the sense that it makes Urshifu less dependent on acquiring boosts to be successful. While I obviously want it to be able to succeed in the Ubers meta, I also consider it important to keep the focus on Nemesis and not just make a generically strong Pokémon. Urshifu is meant to deter haphazard use of setup moves, but the goal wasn't really to make it an insanely good win condition even when the opponent doesn't give it any boosts to steal.
That said, I might be overestimating this spread, and it's possible that losing to such a prevalent Pokémon would do more harm to its place in the tier than having a few unintended winning matchups; base 160 Attack without the benefit of an item might also be on the low end for an offensive Pokémon in the tier, making its weak Special Defense more exploitable and still incentivizing it to steal boosts wherever possible.
With that in mind, this alternative is still a serious consideration, and I would appreciate feedback on which spread would be the better choice!
Pokémon name:
Mega Stone name: Urshifurite
Stats: 100 HP / 151 Attack (+21) / 149 Defense (+49) / 63 Special Attack / 86 Special Defense (+26) / 101 Speed (+4)
Typing: Fighting/Water
Ability: Deliverance (the user immediately uses Haze on entry)
New moves: Haze purely because the Ability would be flavorfully awkward without it - it doesn't need to run it!
Like its counterpart, Mega Urshifu (Rapid Strike Style) is primarily designed to take advantage of its new Ability! This one has Deliverance, an Ability that lets it come in on setup sweepers and shut them down - this time not with auto-Psych Up but auto-Haze. As the non-Uber of the duo, it's not expected to turn that boost elimination into a countersweep, but its mere presence on a team severely hinders attempts at setup by reliably and easily eliminating stat boosts while still providing offensive pressure, a unique role in the metagame.
Once again, Mega Urshifu's stats were tailored to dealing with specific Pokémon necessary to fulfill its role. Frustratingly, Rapid Strike's type combination puts it at a disadvantage against many setup sweepers, but with very careful stat allocation, I've managed to make it an effective answer to as many relevant setup users as possible.
With one basic set - max HP, max Speed Jolly with the moves Surging Strikes, Close Combat, Ice Punch and Taunt - Mega Urshifu can reliably check (defeat/force out if brought in safely) Calm Mind Blacephalon, Dragon Dance Dragapult, Swords Dance Garchomp, Nasty Plot Gengar, Kartana, some Shift Gear Magearna (they appear not to run Fairy STAB consistently?), Nasty Plot Mew and Acid Armor/Calm Mind Reuniclus.
Even better, it should be able to counter (safely switch in, even with rocks, and still defeat/force out) Swords Dance Aegislash, Bisharp and Excadrill, Rest Talk Grimmsnarl, Dragon Dance Mega Gyarados, Nasty Plot Hydreigon, Nasty Plot Heat Rotom, Swords Dance Mega Scizor, Calm Mind Mega Slowbro, Dragon Dance Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar, and Quiver Dance Volcarona without any rolls at all.
On the other hand, this set still struggles with Calm Mind Clefable, Bulk Up Corviknight with Brave Bird, non-Mega Gyarados, Swords Dance Hawlucha, defensive Kommo-o, Tail Glow Manaphy with Psychic, Nasty Plot Rotom-Wash and all Tapu Lele.
That said, it's absolutely possible to use a more specialized EV spread to cover other Pokémon here as well, so please experiment with different options! While this sample set can cover all of these Pokémon, Urshifu is probably best used if you tech it to deal with specific threats to your team.
In addition, Urshifu still has the option of U-turn - an immensely useful momentum-grabbing tool on a Pokémon that can set Haze without even taking a turn, enabling it to bring in another answer immediately after the target's boosts are cleared. This most likely comes at the expense of Ice Punch or Taunt, so you'll have to choose your moves carefully, but Mega Urshifu (Rapid Strike Style) should prove to be a customizable and widely useful utility Pokémon that can swing the battle back in one's favor even after a threatening opponent is set up.
Once again, Mega Urshifu's stats were tailored to dealing with specific Pokémon necessary to fulfill its role. Frustratingly, Rapid Strike's type combination puts it at a disadvantage against many setup sweepers, but with very careful stat allocation, I've managed to make it an effective answer to as many relevant setup users as possible.
With one basic set - max HP, max Speed Jolly with the moves Surging Strikes, Close Combat, Ice Punch and Taunt - Mega Urshifu can reliably check (defeat/force out if brought in safely) Calm Mind Blacephalon, Dragon Dance Dragapult, Swords Dance Garchomp, Nasty Plot Gengar, Kartana, some Shift Gear Magearna (they appear not to run Fairy STAB consistently?), Nasty Plot Mew and Acid Armor/Calm Mind Reuniclus.
Even better, it should be able to counter (safely switch in, even with rocks, and still defeat/force out) Swords Dance Aegislash, Bisharp and Excadrill, Rest Talk Grimmsnarl, Dragon Dance Mega Gyarados, Nasty Plot Hydreigon, Nasty Plot Heat Rotom, Swords Dance Mega Scizor, Calm Mind Mega Slowbro, Dragon Dance Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar, and Quiver Dance Volcarona without any rolls at all.
On the other hand, this set still struggles with Calm Mind Clefable, Bulk Up Corviknight with Brave Bird, non-Mega Gyarados, Swords Dance Hawlucha, defensive Kommo-o, Tail Glow Manaphy with Psychic, Nasty Plot Rotom-Wash and all Tapu Lele.
That said, it's absolutely possible to use a more specialized EV spread to cover other Pokémon here as well, so please experiment with different options! While this sample set can cover all of these Pokémon, Urshifu is probably best used if you tech it to deal with specific threats to your team.
In addition, Urshifu still has the option of U-turn - an immensely useful momentum-grabbing tool on a Pokémon that can set Haze without even taking a turn, enabling it to bring in another answer immediately after the target's boosts are cleared. This most likely comes at the expense of Ice Punch or Taunt, so you'll have to choose your moves carefully, but Mega Urshifu (Rapid Strike Style) should prove to be a customizable and widely useful utility Pokémon that can swing the battle back in one's favor even after a threatening opponent is set up.
Side note: if one of my submissions wins but not the other, please replace "Urshifusite" and "Urshifurite" with whatever is the most sensible counterpart of the other winner! I care more about the stones matching than I do about getting to name them, haha.
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Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Subs will end Friday!
Pokemon Name: Urshifu-Rapid Strike
Mega Stone Name: Urshifunite R
Stats: 100 / 140 / 130 / 103 / 60 / 117 (+10 Atk, +30 Def, +40 SpA, +20 Spe)
Typing: Fighting/Water
Ability: Technician
New Moves:
Competitive Description: Technician boosts the power of its signature move Surging Strikes, giving it a total power of 112 before critical hits and 168 after critical hits. It also boosts the power of useful coverage moves such as Rock Tomb and Aerial Ace. Mega Urshifu-Rapid Strike gets increased Speed due to Pokedex flavor. It retains its low SpD to keep it balanced.
Ema Skye
Work!
Can we also revisit Mega Corviknight in light of the DLC? It's definitely not a top 5 Pokemon anymore in OU and a Mega could actually be useful in OU.
Pokemon Name: Urshifu - Rapid Strike
Mega Stone Name: Urshifunite
Stats: 100 HP / 170 Atk (+40) / 120 Def (+20) / 63 SpA / 90 SpD (+30) / 107 Spe (+10)
Typing: Fighting / Water
Ability: Technician
New Moves: None
Competitive Description: Surging Strikes is now 37.5 BP, hits three times and crits each time. This takes it from its 112.5 BP to 168.75 BP. This still gives it trouble with bulky waters, as it still cannot break through Pex and Slowbro, so even though 170 Atk seems ridiculous, it's really not (it's weaker than CB sets). As Surging Strikes is what makes it distinct from the other form, I wanted to build the set around it. It also has the benefit of a strong Aqua Jet. I also upped the bulk as Water/Fighting is good defensively and it can now take advantage of it.
Pokemon Name: Urshifu - Rapid Strike
Mega Stone Name: Urshifunite
Stats: 100 HP / 170 Atk (+40) / 120 Def (+20) / 63 SpA / 90 SpD (+30) / 107 Spe (+10)
Typing: Fighting / Water
Ability: Technician
New Moves: None
Competitive Description: Surging Strikes is now 37.5 BP, hits three times and crits each time. This takes it from its 112.5 BP to 168.75 BP. This still gives it trouble with bulky waters, as it still cannot break through Pex and Slowbro, so even though 170 Atk seems ridiculous, it's really not (it's weaker than CB sets). As Surging Strikes is what makes it distinct from the other form, I wanted to build the set around it. It also has the benefit of a strong Aqua Jet. I also upped the bulk as Water/Fighting is good defensively and it can now take advantage of it.
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Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Aight, so you may have noticed that I put up a poll concerning a potentially huge change for the meta: Shifting to core SWSH OU over National Dex.
It's something I've been thinking over for a while and as of a recent Pet Mods Discord convo I figure now's the time to make the decision.
The main concern motivating this change is the environment of National Dex. I've been peeking in regularly on meta discussion on there and right now it's... cluttered, to say the least. In particular there's a bunch of extremely powerful Megas our newcomers would have to contend with: Even if Metagross is banned there'd still be Lopunny, Mawile, Tyranitar, Scizor and more that could hog the spotlight. A lot of our Megas could also just be underpowered despite not being outclassed by anything (E.G. Charizard Z struggling to set itself apart from the other Megazards, Butterfree, Copperajah and Coalossal among others). Even if we set that all aside there's the danger of getting a bit too nutty with powercreep due to how crazy that meta can be.
On the other hand, our Megas have been designed from the beginning to accomodate National Dex. By switching to the lower power SWSH OU we risk the balance being completely fricced for a while. We can obviously makes tweaks as we'd like, but it would still be rather bothersome. There's also the matter of whether to allow previously existing Megas should we take this route: With stuff like Mega Lop existing and Mega Metagross coming when Crown Tundra arrives this could end up contradicting the entire reason for switching to Regional Dex in the first place.
The poll will be up for 4 days, wrapping up on 12:07 AM EST, June 29th. Keep in mind that despite all this the Urshifu Slate will be continuing with the same scheduling. I'm extremely sorry for I would love to do these separately but it seems very likely we're gonna be chosen as Pet Mod of the Season and this has to be taken care of before that happens. During this time you are also highly encouraged to discuss the matter and argue for which of the 3 options should be chosen. Thank you for your understanding xd
It's something I've been thinking over for a while and as of a recent Pet Mods Discord convo I figure now's the time to make the decision.
The main concern motivating this change is the environment of National Dex. I've been peeking in regularly on meta discussion on there and right now it's... cluttered, to say the least. In particular there's a bunch of extremely powerful Megas our newcomers would have to contend with: Even if Metagross is banned there'd still be Lopunny, Mawile, Tyranitar, Scizor and more that could hog the spotlight. A lot of our Megas could also just be underpowered despite not being outclassed by anything (E.G. Charizard Z struggling to set itself apart from the other Megazards, Butterfree, Copperajah and Coalossal among others). Even if we set that all aside there's the danger of getting a bit too nutty with powercreep due to how crazy that meta can be.
On the other hand, our Megas have been designed from the beginning to accomodate National Dex. By switching to the lower power SWSH OU we risk the balance being completely fricced for a while. We can obviously makes tweaks as we'd like, but it would still be rather bothersome. There's also the matter of whether to allow previously existing Megas should we take this route: With stuff like Mega Lop existing and Mega Metagross coming when Crown Tundra arrives this could end up contradicting the entire reason for switching to Regional Dex in the first place.
The poll will be up for 4 days, wrapping up on 12:07 AM EST, June 29th. Keep in mind that despite all this the Urshifu Slate will be continuing with the same scheduling. I'm extremely sorry for I would love to do these separately but it seems very likely we're gonna be chosen as Pet Mod of the Season and this has to be taken care of before that happens. During this time you are also highly encouraged to discuss the matter and argue for which of the 3 options should be chosen. Thank you for your understanding xd
Ok, gonna do a big post, while doing submissions because why not.
A Lot of us over at Discord were having a long discussion regarding Megamax earlier today, and i think we came to the conclusion that as of right now, most of the Megas in Megamax would be mediocre at best and straight up bad if they were to be placed in a Nat Dex metagame, not only competing with powerful threats in a metagame already falling apart at the seems in threats to cover, but specifically in regards to holding the coveted mega slot. These megas will have to compete with Broken Mega Metagross, top tier Mega Lopunny, AND sleeper hits like the Mega Charizards, Mega Mawile and Mega Latios. Quite frankly, i do not think most of these are even capable of doing so, and the ones that do are pretty much borderline broken as is (looking at you Mega Blastoise X). Now, since Dramps has made the poll and his thoughts known, I will talk about why I vouch for Megamax being OU with only our Giga Megas.
As I said before, most of the megas simply lack a niche in a NatDex format due to being outclassed by better mons or better Pokemon rn. For example, Mega Copperajah is quite literally a poor man's Melmetal, who serves the niche of being a bulky slow Steel type with offensive presense much better despite the former having a better lando matchup and having its own unique hazard. The oppurtunity cost of skipping on Melmetal's innate qualities + another Mega Evolution that can do something completely different is simply too great a cost for players to do in Nat Dex. However in OU, where no bulky steels with offensive presense exist outside of Magearna, (which would serve very different roles) Mega Copperajah would stand out and find itself ample opportunities to be useful.
Right now the big question to ask is "what about the existing Megas? They are built for Nat Dex in mind!" Well, I scanned through the list of completed Megas and decided to tier them based on how successful they would be in OU right now.
Adding Mega Blastoise to Broken (nothing switches in with a layer of Spikes up if it gets to +2), Mega Venusaur to Very Middling (outclassed as a bulky Grass type and bulky Mega, while having no real niche to carve), Mega Inteleon to Ok / Meh (solid niche as the fastest Pokemon out right now + an actual secondary STAB, but held back by disappointing bulk and mediocre offensive stats for a Mega) and both Mega Rilla and Ace to Bad on All Accounts (For being objectively worse than their base forms while being Mediocre Pokemon even in a vacuum.)
Even with a glance, its fair to see that most Megas right now would fit right in OU right now with no form of adjustments to varying degrees of success, while a few would need direct nerfs or buffs (Broken / Bad). Sure the Top Tiers are suspect but are not out of the gate broken, and the middling Pokes are pretty bad but they can do SOMETHING on the right team, minimzing fears that all of the megas need a radical shift in balance to function in OU, and thus would not require massive changes that might hurt implementation of Megamax if it wins PMotS. I think to promote a healthier meta and ensure that the Megamax Pokemon are actually used in the Megamax meta, I support the final poll answer - Regional Dex OU with only converted Gigantamaxes existing
After all of that I suppose its time to actually make a damn submission.
Pokemon Name: Urshifu-Rapid Strike
Mega Stone Name: Urshifite R
Stats: 100 HP / 150 Atk / 140 Def / 83 SpA / 70 SpD / 107 Spe (+20 Atk, +40 Def, +20 SpA, +10 SpD +10 Spe)
Typing: Fighting/Water
Ability: Calming Tides - Flower Veil clone for Water types
New Moves: None
Competitive Description: Just like its calm demeanor suggests, Urshifu-Rapid Strike was never about breaking past foes with raw power, so instead, I decided to lean into its stall breaker role fully by giving it a very cool ability in Calming Tides. Something to note is that this Pokemon does excellent versus Stall builds (notably using Taunt + Bulk Up to completely 1v1 Toxapex). It is also something that Ou currently lacks - a solid Urshifu-Single Strike switch-in. 107 Speed is very solid in the current metagame, but it is crept by notable Pokemon such as Terrakion, Cinderace, Alazakam and Dragapult. Its special bulk is also still very mediocre, and Mega Urshifu-Rapid Strike still cannot touch any of OU's standard bulky Water checks outside of Toxapex.
Pokemon Name: Urshifu-Single Strike
Mega Stone Name: Urshifite S
Stats: 100 HP / 160 Atk / 130 Def / 63 SpA / 60 SpD / 137 Spe (+30 Atk, +30 Def, +40 Spe)
Typing: Fighting/Dark
Ability: Raging Blitz - Attacks get a 30% increase in power, but suffers 25% recoil
New Moves: None
Competitive Description: Going all out in Ubers, Mega Urshifu stands out as a spectacular wallbreaker thanks to its signature ability, granting moves a big boost in power in exchange for recoil. Being faster than Marshadow and Mewtwo is already a great sign. and can pair up with other physically inclined Pokemon to break through walls like Quagsire and Necrozma DM for Zacian. It still matches up poorly against Zacian, however, and variants of Eternatus can give it trouble.
A Lot of us over at Discord were having a long discussion regarding Megamax earlier today, and i think we came to the conclusion that as of right now, most of the Megas in Megamax would be mediocre at best and straight up bad if they were to be placed in a Nat Dex metagame, not only competing with powerful threats in a metagame already falling apart at the seems in threats to cover, but specifically in regards to holding the coveted mega slot. These megas will have to compete with Broken Mega Metagross, top tier Mega Lopunny, AND sleeper hits like the Mega Charizards, Mega Mawile and Mega Latios. Quite frankly, i do not think most of these are even capable of doing so, and the ones that do are pretty much borderline broken as is (looking at you Mega Blastoise X). Now, since Dramps has made the poll and his thoughts known, I will talk about why I vouch for Megamax being OU with only our Giga Megas.
As I said before, most of the megas simply lack a niche in a NatDex format due to being outclassed by better mons or better Pokemon rn. For example, Mega Copperajah is quite literally a poor man's Melmetal, who serves the niche of being a bulky slow Steel type with offensive presense much better despite the former having a better lando matchup and having its own unique hazard. The oppurtunity cost of skipping on Melmetal's innate qualities + another Mega Evolution that can do something completely different is simply too great a cost for players to do in Nat Dex. However in OU, where no bulky steels with offensive presense exist outside of Magearna, (which would serve very different roles) Mega Copperajah would stand out and find itself ample opportunities to be useful.
Right now the big question to ask is "what about the existing Megas? They are built for Nat Dex in mind!" Well, I scanned through the list of completed Megas and decided to tier them based on how successful they would be in OU right now.
Adding Mega Blastoise to Broken (nothing switches in with a layer of Spikes up if it gets to +2), Mega Venusaur to Very Middling (outclassed as a bulky Grass type and bulky Mega, while having no real niche to carve), Mega Inteleon to Ok / Meh (solid niche as the fastest Pokemon out right now + an actual secondary STAB, but held back by disappointing bulk and mediocre offensive stats for a Mega) and both Mega Rilla and Ace to Bad on All Accounts (For being objectively worse than their base forms while being Mediocre Pokemon even in a vacuum.)
Even with a glance, its fair to see that most Megas right now would fit right in OU right now with no form of adjustments to varying degrees of success, while a few would need direct nerfs or buffs (Broken / Bad). Sure the Top Tiers are suspect but are not out of the gate broken, and the middling Pokes are pretty bad but they can do SOMETHING on the right team, minimzing fears that all of the megas need a radical shift in balance to function in OU, and thus would not require massive changes that might hurt implementation of Megamax if it wins PMotS. I think to promote a healthier meta and ensure that the Megamax Pokemon are actually used in the Megamax meta, I support the final poll answer - Regional Dex OU with only converted Gigantamaxes existing
After all of that I suppose its time to actually make a damn submission.
Pokemon Name: Urshifu-Rapid Strike
Mega Stone Name: Urshifite R
Stats: 100 HP / 150 Atk / 140 Def / 83 SpA / 70 SpD / 107 Spe (+20 Atk, +40 Def, +20 SpA, +10 SpD +10 Spe)
Typing: Fighting/Water
Ability: Calming Tides - Flower Veil clone for Water types
New Moves: None
Competitive Description: Just like its calm demeanor suggests, Urshifu-Rapid Strike was never about breaking past foes with raw power, so instead, I decided to lean into its stall breaker role fully by giving it a very cool ability in Calming Tides. Something to note is that this Pokemon does excellent versus Stall builds (notably using Taunt + Bulk Up to completely 1v1 Toxapex). It is also something that Ou currently lacks - a solid Urshifu-Single Strike switch-in. 107 Speed is very solid in the current metagame, but it is crept by notable Pokemon such as Terrakion, Cinderace, Alazakam and Dragapult. Its special bulk is also still very mediocre, and Mega Urshifu-Rapid Strike still cannot touch any of OU's standard bulky Water checks outside of Toxapex.
Pokemon Name: Urshifu-Single Strike
Mega Stone Name: Urshifite S
Stats: 100 HP / 160 Atk / 130 Def / 63 SpA / 60 SpD / 137 Spe (+30 Atk, +30 Def, +40 Spe)
Typing: Fighting/Dark
Ability: Raging Blitz - Attacks get a 30% increase in power, but suffers 25% recoil
New Moves: None
Competitive Description: Going all out in Ubers, Mega Urshifu stands out as a spectacular wallbreaker thanks to its signature ability, granting moves a big boost in power in exchange for recoil. Being faster than Marshadow and Mewtwo is already a great sign. and can pair up with other physically inclined Pokemon to break through walls like Quagsire and Necrozma DM for Zacian. It still matches up poorly against Zacian, however, and variants of Eternatus can give it trouble.
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Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Final reminder that subs end tomorrow. Tbh tho this post is mainly to announce that the poll will probably end early due to the insane landslide option 3 is winning by if I don't see any substantial changes by when I wake up.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Voting begins now for Urshifu btw
G-Luke, Hematite, DrPumpkinz
For both of them
For both of them
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
voting will end within the next day or 2
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
As for Rapid Strike right now it's a tie between G-Luke and DrPumpkinz' submissions. First person to vote for either one or change their vote to give one the lead shall break the tie!Pokémon name:Mega Urshifu (Single Strike Style)
Mega Stone name: Urshifusite
Stats: 100 HP / 160 Attack (+30) / 115 Defense (+15) / 79 Special Attack (+16) / 70 Special Defense (+10) / 126 Speed (+29)
Typing: Fighting/Dark
Ability: Nemesis (the user immediately uses Psych Up on entry)
New moves: Psych Up purely because the Ability would be flavorfully awkward without it - it doesn't need to run it!
The concept of Mega Urshifu (Single Strike Style) revolves entirely around its new Ability, Nemesis, which allows it to take advantage of common setup sweepers and countersweep if given a free switch, including if it comes in after an ally is knocked out. The goal is to make it an anti-setup Pokémon/countersweeper in line with Marshadow.
When determining its stats, I focused specifically on Pokémon that Urshifu needed to be able to threaten to fulfill its purpose ("pro-concept" targets), then zeroed in on the matchups that I thought would be the toughest without special attention: opposing setup sweepers with type advantages over Urshifu.
With this in mind, these stats are designed to secure favorable matchups with Landorus-T, Shift Gear Magearna, Marshadow (stealing back stolen boosts is too funny), Swords Dance Mega Blaziken, any Mega Lucario, Dragon Dance Mega Salamence and Dragon Dance Rayquaza after they've set up. The goal is that it can reliably force them out and punish them for setting up while still being healthy enough to take advantage of its newfound boosts. A straightforward set with Wicked Blow, Close Combat and Ice Punch takes care of all of these given maximum Speed, Attack and a Speed-boosting nature.
(It also manages to beat Pheromosa, another Pokémon in the Ubers metagame that can raise its stats, but barely - the +15 Defense is so it can avoid a one-hit KO from Low Kick reliably assuming no prior chip so it can hit back and one-hit KO, but this one is pretty shaky and leaves Urshifu vulnerable to priority, so it's unlikely to be a full countersweep. Even so, Pheromosa is a physical setup sweeper, and Urshifu's job is to inhibit physical setup sweepers - this is a relevant matchup all the same.)
Notably, if Urshifu hasn't already Mega Evolved by the time a setup sweeper comes in, the worst it can do is force it out prematurely; on the other hand, if Urshifu manages to Mega Evolve earlier in the battle while preserving its condition, simply coming in can put the opponent into a disadvantageous position, as it keeps its new boosts even if its target switches out without allowing itself to be defeated. For this reason, U-turn is an excellent choice for a fourth move - it allows Urshifu to Mega Evolve early on and then leave unscathed so that it remains a constant presence in the battle and the fear of its arrival can stop opponents from daring to set up.
That said, while that means it can easily tear through many disadvantageous type matchups under the right circumstances, I was careful to make sure that it retained several counters and wouldn't just wreck the tier. As it has no way to capitalize on Special Attack boosts and has abysmal special bulk for the tier, Urshifu struggles with its matchups against many common special attackers, including some that use setup moves, as well as some physical attackers that simply hit harder and faster without boosting. Flying and Fairy Arceus, Mega Lopunny, Mega Mewtwo X, Tapu Koko, Scarf Tapu Lele, Yveltal, Zacian-C and Scarf Zacian are all (probably viable) Pokémon that can reliably beat Urshifu.
On the less reliable side, Urshifu can beat Mega Diancie in neutral situations, but only if Diancie hasn't received a Defense boost from Diamond Storm, meaning Diancie can bypass any potential Nemesis shenanigans. Non-Mega Diancie, which has seen use in AG this Gen but may not be as relevant in a non-Dynamax meta, can reliably beat Urshifu without prior damage. Klefki of all things, though it prefers to run Play Rough, can also check Urshifu if it runs Dazzling Gleam.
Somewhat amusingly, considering their similarities, Urshifu also fears Ditto, which can copy its boosts, outspeed it and dispatch it with its own super effective STAB. One day, I want to witness a match involving a setup sweeper, a Marshadow, a Mega Urshifu and a Ditto.Actually, there's a much stronger option that fulfills a specific purpose, but I wasn't sure if it was worth the potential problems - the only intended benefit of this changed spread is that Urshifu can beat Zacian-C after rocks or any other chip. I would consider this matchup to be incredibly pro-concept - Zacian-C is one of the strongest Pokémon in the Ubers and AG metas alike, and it's one of the only Pokémon that always has a boost thanks to Intrepid Sword, so making it possible for Urshifu to take advantage of that would give it an immediate presence in the tier and take great advantage of its signature Nemesis.
This is the variation that can beat Zacian-C:
Stats: 100 HP / 161 Attack (+31) / 115 Defense (+15) / 65 Special Attack (+2) / 60 Special Defense / 149 Speed (+52)
(There is no way for Urshifu to beat Scarf Zacian with either stat spread.)
Unfortunately, due to its type, the only way for this to be possible is by outspeeding Zacian-C, which means a massive boost of 23 points to Speed (and 1 to Attack to remove a roll). This Speed increase most likely has unintended consequences on many other losing matchups that may or may not be desirable.
With that said, I'm somewhat worried that this stat spread is too good against everything else - in the sense that it makes Urshifu less dependent on acquiring boosts to be successful. While I obviously want it to be able to succeed in the Ubers meta, I also consider it important to keep the focus on Nemesis and not just make a generically strong Pokémon. Urshifu is meant to deter haphazard use of setup moves, but the goal wasn't really to make it an insanely good win condition even when the opponent doesn't give it any boosts to steal.
That said, I might be overestimating this spread, and it's possible that losing to such a prevalent Pokémon would do more harm to its place in the tier than having a few unintended winning matchups; base 160 Attack without the benefit of an item might also be on the low end for an offensive Pokémon in the tier, making its weak Special Defense more exploitable and still incentivizing it to steal boosts wherever possible.
With that in mind, this alternative is still a serious consideration, and I would appreciate feedback on which spread would be the better choice!
Single Strike
Hematite 10
G-Luke 8
DrPumpkinz 6
Rapid Strike
G-Luke 8
DrPumpkinz 8
Hematite 7
MegaFlareon 1
Hematite 10
G-Luke 8
DrPumpkinz 6
Rapid Strike
G-Luke 8
DrPumpkinz 8
Hematite 7
MegaFlareon 1
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
no self-votes
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
MEGAMAX IS COMPLETE!!!! (for the time being)
And just in time too! Enjoy the next chapter of this metagame as we head into July and begin our run as PET MOD OF THE SEASON!!!!!!!!
And just in time too! Enjoy the next chapter of this metagame as we head into July and begin our run as PET MOD OF THE SEASON!!!!!!!!