Metagame Megamons

Hate to say it but this tier seems hardly different enough from regular ubers. It's barely an OM.
It should have been OU, desu. There's hardly a reason to use the vast majority of megas when you can just use an uber instead. Especially disappointing is that lower tier megas are still basically useless even with the removed restrictions of using one, with some exceptions like Slowbro who saw use in Ubers anyway and barely functions any differently.
Really, the only real difference I can see is that it made Salamence kind of overpowered and made Diancie one of the best leads. Besides that, building a team for Megamons is virtually the same as building an ubers team.
I'd absolutely petition for this game mode to be moved down to OU while it's still early in the month, so we can actually see mons like Ampharos, Sceptile, and Camerupt used in any sort of viable capacity.

I mean, come on, it's literally called MEGAMONS and most of the megas still suck.
IIRC, Ubers can keep up with the boosted power level of unrestricted megas, while OU mons can’t.
 
IIRC, Ubers can keep up with the boosted power level of unrestricted megas, while OU mons can’t.
I mean, I get that they wanted the tier to be more balanced in terms of offense VS defense, but again, why even have an OM if it's barely different from ubers? Besides, despite stall being supposedly viable I've yet to see anybody run it.
Like, I built a psychic terrain team before and the actual only difference between the same team I built in Ubers is that Mewtwo Y is banned and my Salamence was way more powerful.
It's just... Not a very fun tier, and as far as I've seen this opinion is far from exclusive to me. I think it would be a lot more fun if we could tear up super-OU with choiced Abomasnow or something equally silly.
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Live Chat Contributor
Half the teams on ladder don't even have any Ubers, just mega spam. Not that that's how the meta is actually best played, but still.
 

manu 11

When someone asks me if i am indian because of my name
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I mean, I get that they wanted the tier to be more balanced in terms of offense VS defense, but again, why even have an OM if it's barely different from ubers? Besides, despite stall being supposedly viable I've yet to see anybody run it.
Like, I built a psychic terrain team before and the actual only difference between the same team I built in Ubers is that Mewtwo Y is banned and my Salamence was way more powerful.
It's just... Not a very fun tier, and as far as I've seen this opinion is far from exclusive to me. I think it would be a lot more fun if we could tear up super-OU with choiced Abomasnow or something equally silly.
It's not really a surprise you haven't seen stall. When you first hear Megamons you don't necessarily think about building defensive teams but rather about how to abuse choice band/spec, life orb and z move. As Ivy said people just mega spam at first. Stall is actually very good.

Also while i can understand that Megamons looks like Ubers, it really isn't the case. It's just that since it's played in Ubers well yeah you face Ubers but the same would happen if we played it in OU or UU. Like OU megamons would make stall even more insane i feel without breakers such as Mega-Lucario, Mega-Salamence or Mega-Mewtwo-X. It also feels more like ubers or just a regular tier because nothing fundamentely changes unlike other oms (AAA adds abilities, Stabmons gives new moves), you just add the possibility of using pokes in their most op form. So pokemon that are already good will remain good except rare cases like Xerneas that actually has a harder time setting up and struggles more due to Bullet Punch on Mega-Metagross, Mega-Scizor, Mega-Lucario or Mega-Medicham. (Xerneas is still good, it just has more offensive checks.)

Megamons gives us the possibility to use megas that are hardly ever used in Ubers such as Mega-Metagross, Mega-Kangashkan or even Mega-Lucario. Moreover, you said in your post that Ampharos-mega and Camerupt-mega are not used but they just need specific conditions to be good, namely Trick room. Only a few megas are totally not used like Mega-Absol, Mega-Sharpedo, Mega-Gallade and Mega-Altaria. Mostly because another mega does what they do better like Diancie-Mega, mmx or Salamence-mega.

You talk about your ubers psychic terrain team but if the only difference is Mewtwo-y being banned, that is actually weird. Like megamons makes psychic terrain a lot more viable with mmx, Mega-Metagross, Mega-Medicham and Mega-Alakazam having an item.

I will agree that it is not the most game changing other metagame because the change only concerns megas but i don't think making it ou based would help. Actually, being ubers based allows us to use all of them (except for the few bans) and most of them can be viable in an ubers based tier.
 
It's not really a surprise you haven't seen stall. When you first hear Megamons you don't necessarily think about building defensive teams but rather about how to abuse choice band/spec, life orb and z move. As Ivy said people just mega spam at first. Stall is actually very good.
I never really doubted that stall would be good, as I'd imagine that's basically the main reason why ubers was chosen over OU in the first place, since OU Megamons would be more offensively inclined. But what's the difference between Megamons stall and ubers stall? Because quite frankly it seems like building stall would be even more restrictive with the insane power level.

Also while i can understand that Megamons looks like Ubers, it really isn't the case. It's just that since it's played in Ubers well yeah you face Ubers but the same would happen if we played it in OU or UU. Like OU megamons would make stall even more insane i feel without breakers such as Mega-Lucario, Mega-Salamence or Mega-Mewtwo-X. It also feels more like ubers or just a regular tier because nothing fundamentely changes unlike other oms (AAA adds abilities, Stabmons gives new moves), you just add the possibility of using pokes in their most op form. So pokemon that are already good will remain good except rare cases like Xerneas that actually has a harder time setting up and struggles more due to Bullet Punch on Mega-Metagross, Mega-Scizor, Mega-Lucario or Mega-Medicham. (Xerneas is still good, it just has more offensive checks.)
I disagree, I feel like OU Megamons would be an even more hostile environment for stall since teams of full megas would not be uncommon (in the sense that they are viable; full megas teams are common now but they suck) , and the main cruxs of ubers stall that make it viable in the first place are obviously not present. I don't necessarily think this is inherently a good thing, of course, but stall being viable or unviable isn't really a factor of complaint when in comes to OMs.

Megamons gives us the possibility to use megas that are hardly ever used in Ubers such as Mega-Metagross, Mega-Kangashkan or even Mega-Lucario. Moreover, you said in your post that Ampharos-mega and Camerupt-mega are not used but they just need specific conditions to be good, namely Trick room. Only a few megas are totally not used like Mega-Absol, Mega-Sharpedo, Mega-Gallade and Mega-Altaria. Mostly because another mega does what they do better like Diancie-Mega, mmx or Salamence-mega.
But they are still just ubers. Making a mon slightly better in its own tier is hardly a shake-up, and quite frankly the ones you mentioned are still often outclassed except maybe Lucario who I admittedly forgot existed.
As for Ampharos and Camerupt over trick room, I honestly think that's silly. Even with its much lower speed, I'd much rather use a minspeed Pdon over Camerupt, as 99% of anything slower than you still loses to you anyway, and the vast majority of mons in Ubers who hover around the 70 speed tier invest enough to outpace uninvested base 90s anyway. I can't even imagine how Ampharos would do much of anything even under trick room, especially with the aforementioned Pdon sapping your momentum away from an archetype that dies with its momentum. To be blunt, the very idea is seriously a stretch, and I highly doubt it's validity.
Also, I can name way more megas than that who have virtually no reason to be used, and I think you could have too.

You talk about your ubers psychic terrain team but if the only difference is Mewtwo-y being banned, that is actually weird. Like megamons makes psychic terrain a lot more viable with mmx, Mega-Metagross, Mega-Medicham and Mega-Alakazam having an item.
There is no good reason to use Mega Metagross over ultra Necrozma, no reason at all to use Alakazam over Deoxys-attack, and barely a reason to use medicham period with its mediocre speed and psychic terrain stifling priority. Yes, I suppose I could have used mmx, but how different is this from a regular ubers team, again?

I will agree that it is not the most game changing other metagame because the change only concerns megas but i don't think making it ou based would help. Actually, being ubers based allows us to use all of them (except for the few bans) and most of them can be viable in an ubers based tier.
Just because you technically can use all of them, doesn't mean it's a good idea, and indeed it's not a good idea in the majority of cases. More megas would absolutely be viable in an OU format and I think this is very clear and plain to see.
 
Metagross has excellent bulk, a much better defensive typing (though if you start with Dusk Mane you get that typing), and a pretty huge speed advantage compared to Dusk Mane, Alakazam has actual bulk on the special side so it doesn't go down to someone flailing in its general direction and can operate without a Sash.

More Megas might be more viable in OU, or the metagame would just centralize itself even harder around the few viable megas who are completely head-and-shoulders above their competition, now without Ubers to dilute the pool. If Mix and Mega (whose power level is generally below Megamons) can't work in OU than I fail to see this succeeding in its stead.
 

manu 11

When someone asks me if i am indian because of my name
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I never really doubted that stall would be good, as I'd imagine that's basically the main reason why ubers was chosen over OU in the first place, since OU Megamons would be more offensively inclined. But what's the difference between Megamons stall and ubers stall? Because quite frankly it seems like building stall would be even more restrictive with the insane power level.

I disagree, I feel like OU Megamons would be an even more hostile environment for stall since teams of full megas would not be uncommon (in the sense that they are viable; full megas teams are common now but they suck) , and the main cruxs of ubers stall that make it viable in the first place are obviously not present. I don't necessarily think this is inherently a good thing, of course, but stall being viable or unviable isn't really a factor of complaint when in comes to OMs.

But they are still just ubers. Making a mon slightly better in its own tier is hardly a shake-up, and quite frankly the ones you mentioned are still often outclassed except maybe Lucario who I admittedly forgot existed.
As for Ampharos and Camerupt over trick room, I honestly think that's silly. Even with its much lower speed, I'd much rather use a minspeed Pdon over Camerupt, as 99% of anything slower than you still loses to you anyway, and the vast majority of mons in Ubers who hover around the 70 speed tier invest enough to outpace uninvested base 90s anyway. I can't even imagine how Ampharos would do much of anything even under trick room, especially with the aforementioned Pdon sapping your momentum away from an archetype that dies with its momentum. To be blunt, the very idea is seriously a stretch, and I highly doubt it's validity.
Also, I can name way more megas than that who have virtually no reason to be used, and I think you could have too.


There is no good reason to use Mega Metagross over ultra Necrozma, no reason at all to use Alakazam over Deoxys-attack, and barely a reason to use medicham period with its mediocre speed and psychic terrain stifling priority. Yes, I suppose I could have used mmx, but how different is this from a regular ubers team, again?

Just because you technically can use all of them, doesn't mean it's a good idea, and indeed it's not a good idea in the majority of cases. More megas would absolutely be viable in an OU format and I think this is very clear and plain to see.
Honestly, very few megas are totally not viable. Like most of them are actually usuable in one way or another and making it OU won't change the viability of the bad ones. You will just make it so that the ones with a usage rate of 10%-30% now will have a usage rate of 50%-70% in OU. The meta will quickly centralize around the best megas and some will just rarely be used. It is inherent to this metagame because nu or ru pokemon can't become gods like in other oms, only megas can become better. So the best megas are used and the viable pokemon of the tier it's played in remain used.

I also oppose against making it OU because right now we have indeed a nice balance between offense and defense. You say OU would make it more hostile for stall but Megamons stall is legit OU or UU pokemon like Slowbro-Mega, Aggron-Mega, Chansey, Mega-Sableye, Mega-Latias, Mega-Scizor and Mega-TTar with very few Ubers (Ho-Oh and Arceus mainly). If megamons is OU, you lose Gothitelle/Mega-Gengar and you lose breakers such as Mega-Salamence, Mega-Lucario and MMX. Add to that the usual stall pokemon of OU. Have fun breaking stall.

In my opinion, if we make megamons OU, it will just be stall and weather wars and we will have to ban shit to make it balanced again and we will lose the opportunity to use other megas directly once again thus limiting the possibilities.

In the end, it's not up to me anyway but i feel Megamons is best played in Ubers because we can use all the megas and the bad ones won't be more used if we make it OU. Pokemon that aren't used much are not just bad stat wise but also because of their type and movepool which won't change even if Megamons is played in OU.

Concerning Mega-Ampharos and Mega-Camerupt, Trick room actually makes them viable. Like you are talking about some megas not being viable and you just straight say it's silly and doubt their viability. Yeah sure TR doesn't make them A+ rank but they can actually be good. Primal-Groudon is indeed annoying for Mega-Ampharos but Z move for example helps 252+ SpA Mold Breaker Ampharos-Mega Devastating Drake (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 375-442 (92.8 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO. Electric/Dragon is actually a nice combination.

Mega-Camerupt does actually more damage than Primal-Groudon with Sheer Force and Life Orb. Let's face it, outside of TR it is bad but TR gives it a nice niche and the combination of Earth Power/Fire Blast is pretty good. It can also run Explosion for Chansey and special walls.

No reason to use Mega-Metagross? Ok.... Choice Band/Scarf Tough Claw with natural 350 Speed and 389 Attack. Access to priority or Rock Polish with Life Orb. Ultra-Necrozma is also very weak to all the pokemon that naturally outspeed it unlike Mega-Metagross be it Mega-Alakazam, Mega-Beedril or Mega-Sceptile.
I think you forgot Mega-Alakazam gets Trace tbh. This makes it counter Diancie-Mega to a certain extent, it can copy Adaptability on 2 megas that are used a lot or just other useful abilities like Regenerator on Ho-Oh or Parental Bond on Mega-Kangashkan. More bulk can also help against Special Mega-Lucario and Mega-Scizor that needs Choice Band for a guaranteed OHKO with Bullet Punch.

Finally, Mega-Medicham has 200 base Attack thanks to Huge Power. Give a Choice Band for insane damage or a Scarf for speed control. Like how can you say of a pokemon with the highest attack stat that there is barely any reason to use it?

From my experience on the ladder, only few megas are totally useless. Most have viable sets that give them some kind of utility.
 
Finally, Mega-Medicham has 200 base Attack thanks to Huge Power.
Actually, the value is higher than that. Mega-Medicham's base Attack is about 250 factoring in Pure Power.

If you want to go into specifics then read here:
The formula in question is: (used for stats other than HP)

(source: Bulbapedia)

  • Assuming 31 IV and 252 EVs in Attack, The first part is doing (2*100+31+(252/4)) which becomes (2*100+31+63) which equals 294.
  • Multiply it by 100 (the assumed level) and divide by 100. Answer is 294. (those two cancel each other out due to being the same value)
  • Add 5 and you get 299 as your answer for 100 base Attack. (Nature is assumed to be neutral here. It shouldn't affect the calculations.)
  • Now multiply that 299 by 2 for Pure Power, (it doubles the raw stat, not the base stat) and get 598. We can work in reverse now
  • Subtract 5 and get 593. The two 100 parts cancel each other out so that can be skipped.
  • Subtract 63 (252/4) and 31 (the IV) to get 499. Divide by 2 to get 249.5 as the answer for the "Huge Power" version of 100 base Attack.
Here's a math lesson for the day.

For a quick rule of thumb to get an approximate base of a "Huge Stat":
  1. Double the base Stat
  2. Add ((EV/8.4)+20) to the result and floor it
For base 100 Attack, this returns base 220 for no Attack investment and 250 for full Attack investment.
 
Here is a dual screen Latias team + setup. There are a lot of possible setup mons. I chose Houndoom with Nasty Plot and Flame Charge, because there are not that many special attackers, that can speed boost. Aditionally Primal groudon dual dance. Mega Diancie as a suicide lead. Scrafed Khan and Muscle Band Lucario, which originally was choice banded.

Other possible setup mons are Gyarados vs unaware, but not sure if Unaware mons are viable here. Z Celebrate Blastoise and Venusaur are cool special attackers, too, as well as Alakazam and Geomancy Xerneas. Otherwise, Salamance is a very obvious choice here.

edit: Updated the team. I removed Diancie for Aggron, because there were too many mirror matchups and replaced Lucario for Medicham with Fake Out and Bullet Punch to counter Focus Sash Diancie. I also chose Xerneas as the default Spa setup mon, which seems to be the most reliable.

Medicham-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Bullet Punch
- Fake Out

Kangaskhan-Mega (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Body Slam
- Crunch
- Earthquake

Aggron-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Filter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Protect

Xerneas @ Fairium Z
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Defog
- Aromatherapy
- Geomancy

Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Roost

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
 
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With the inclusion of Z-Moves this generation, many Pokemon are able to run interesting new sets to get around previous checks and counters. I'll share a few just to start some discussion.


Tyranitar-Mega @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Low Kick

This set can come in on many special attackers quite easily, boost once and proceed to sweep a lot of the time. At +1 it outpaces the majority of the metagame bar outliers like Mega Beedrill and Mega Aerodactyl. Rockium Z Mega Tyranitar Z-Stone Edge breaks past Primal Groudon at +1 with very minimal chip. The fact that most Mega Tyranitars are slow bulky momentum drains helps it a lot also, as it usually catches the opponent off guard.

Example of this in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7customgame-851684063


Lucario-Mega @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Vacuum Wave

Credit to jrdn for this set. +2 Z-Focus Blast OHKOs Mega Slowbro, arguably Mega Lucario's best check, with ease. It's also very powerful in general but so is every Mega Lucario set so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Potent special walls like Mega Tyranitar and Chansey don't appreciate it much either. Not much switches in on this, but enough so that it isn't necessarily broken or overwhelming.

Example of this in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7customgame-852068818
Mega Glalie can use Icium Z to basically get 2 explosions.
 

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