Mental illness

[Deck Knight]

Dude, fuck you. Man I lost a lot of respect for you, I thought your 'good christian values' would prevent you from being that predatory, at least according to what you've told me. Looks like hypocrisy runs deeper in you than just your mysticism. Totally uncalled for. I am actually genuinely upset by that comment, deck. I hope you get swift and brutal repercussions for that comment from your God (I don't care if the punishment is internalized by you or quite unlikely some external "oh bad luck too bad" shit, just that it happens).

It was a mild, one line, barely even borderline troll of the kind you place all around a forum in threads that are both serious and humorous. It wasn't an attack. At all. We regularly have conversations about the qualities of your trolling. No need to tailspin into something else.

I am not some armchair diagnosing fuckstain who can't concentrate in a boring class. Every diagnosis, every potential answer...everything about my mental state and any labels I put on it is straight from the professionals mouth. You know me well enough to know that if I'm not satisfied with a diagnosis I seek out something that is a better fit. Well, sad thing is, I have fit every fucking diagnosis I have received. The problem with psych is that you basically have a constellation of symptoms that can be interpreted any number of ways. It's literally like throwing a dart, while blindfolded, at a spinning dartboard that has most of the symptoms and MAY have an answer. These symptoms are often a moving target and I'm learning this more and more as I actively participate in treatments instead of troll the group I'm in (I don't do group anymore) or tell the DB therapist to fuck herself. I am learning more and more what the symptoms I have mean and even how my hallucinations and ADHD impact me on a day to day basis (they manifested in Borderline Personality Disorder twice now). You can't imagine the horrors I've exacted upon myself, Deck, and upon those I love.

It's not like I expected this response from you. We troll each other mildly all the fucking time, especially in the new a forum. We talk about trolling all the time. I honestly did not think it would set you off since I thought I was very clearly referencing our various discussions of the efficacy of trolling. I was not questioning the validity of your medications or your diagnoses or anything else. If I was misinterpreted as being overtly hostile or predatory then I apologize.

I have had ADHD since before I can remember- I was hospitalized (in patient mental health) for the symptoms at age 10 and I hit 10/10 for the symptoms in adult ADHD (you need like 7/10 to get a diagnosis) and was on adult (or more) dose meds at the age of 6 just to function at all day to day. That was the only inpatient treatment I've had, but I've had numerous outpatient ones and many visits to emergency. I also probably did have some of those things I was serious about, but they can be more transient, especially with treatment, and especially borderline personality disorder in particular. It's hard to get a diagnosis and trust me, if you ever are in a state like I've been in a few times, any little flicker of diagnosis and resolution for why you are freaking out like that is something you go after.

Honestly, if not for staggeringly high intelligence I wouldn't have coasted through one of the hardest university programs available with pretty good marks while drinking far more than anyone should in a lifetime (all uni students say that...but this was a nightmare, even for my friends) to deal with his aunt dying a violent and scary death due to brain and spine cancer followed by his mom getting breast cancer and probably PTSD right after it (95% mental illness rate in women in middle ages surviving breast cancer) as well as the onset of hallucinations and a myriad of terrible other circumstances that I won't bore the forum with. Hell, with the mental bullshit I dealt with BEFORE the age of 14, I'm lucky I had such great parents who fought tooth and nail or I'd be some fucking boner peddling crack junkie turning tricks and robbing other playas to make enough skrill so I can inject myself with meth on the hour...and then I had to deal with several deaths that I didn't take so well and also include the above. I really want to drive this home: that was an offensive, hideous blow shrouded as an "oh and also the bulk of my post is about how I kind of have issues but don't so yay" bullshit DK essay. You always regress to a "well, logic can't defend my beliefs so MORALITY WILL"...ignoring all the logic I've provided, as well as Hammurabi, I think after that comment you really can't claim the moral high ground or justification EVER again, as I will remind you EVERY FUCKING TIME of this.

My religious beliefs didn't even enter the equation anywhere, they just got inserted into the middle of your post because I acidentelly set off a berserk button of yours. which you respond to with your hobby horse of bashing my religion. I don't care how intelligent you are or whether your abrasiveness is clinical or just being an asshole. If you want to insert me taking the moral high ground on something into my every post I can't really help that, but I didn't say anything of that nature. If fact in that post specifically I questioned my own morality regarding my gut reactions to the obviously retarded. If that's a moral high ground, it's below sea level.

For the record, I still do suffer from hallucinations (mostly auditory, non schizophrenic) and other memory 'rapes' and those DO have a profound impact on me. I also still have mood and personality issues as well. Unfortunately, I'm in the 5% that can't be diagnosed with MRI or EEG, as I was clean on both. You don't need solid evidence just to believe something is real, right Deck?

Schizophrenia, or at least delusions, like any religious person but you're pretty out there so I assume there is some aspergers or other autistic spectrum disorder.

I'm neither insane nor delusional Morm and I do apologize if my line was in too poor taste for a serious thread, posted between two people with a long history of messing with each other to various degrees in basically every thread. I did not question your mental state or in any way suggest your various health issues were not real. You in turn exploded on me and attacked my religious beliefs again, and whether you sic'd your girlfriend on me or she did it of her own accord doesn't matter to me. I did not think that single line would result in your response based on the history of our relationship and the sheer volumes of times we've mildly trolled each other all over the place.

I have no delusions this will fix anything between us, but I thought it proper to respond.

 

[cookie]

Similarly, I get deja vu in a layered effect. When I have a deja vu event, immediately afterwards I have deja vu about having deja vu of that exact moment. What I think is happening here is a crosswiring of long and short term memory. When you experience something, the STM normally writes it, then the brain crosschecks the LTM for similar experiences before writing from the STM into the LTM. Deja vu occurs when they do this in the wrong order; it writes to LTM directly before/simultaneously with STM. The brain crosschecks from STM to LTM, and recognises the event. Because the crosswiring lasts a second or so, the moment you experience the deja vu, the same thing happens and so the memory of having deja vu gets written to LTM and then STM crosschecks it and sees the deja-vu in LTM and repeats, until the brain can reorder the memory writing.

I get this a lot. A few days ago I got something that felt like a premonition where I imagined asking my demonstrator something then hearing his answer, but rather than imagining it it felt like it happened (like a premonition). I know this feeling occurred before it happened because I wrote it down at that very moment. Although, when I went to ask the demonstrator he gave me a different answer so no future-prediction.

 

[MrIndigo]

So, apparently, seeing the future is normal say scientists:

http://tinyurl.com/3xgeo3

 

[JiggliePuffs]

Reading about the various illnesses that people here suffer has intrigued me, greatly.

I have always wanted to meet someone with MPD.

On another note, I've noticed that most people on the Internet seem to have some sort of variation of the disease, Munchausen's?

 

[MrIndigo]

Reading about the various illnesses that people here suffer has intrigued me, greatly.

I have always wanted to meet someone with MPD.

On another note, I've noticed that most people on the Internet seem to have some sort of variation of the disease, Munchausen's?

Munchausens I think is more than mere hypochondria; I think it means actually making yourself sick, or another person (typically a child).

I still need to get more details on what my psych-studying friends said about multiple personality disorder not actually existing, and how it is alleged to be an invention of some American psychologists.

 

[Morm]

So, apparently, seeing the future is normal say scientists:

http://tinyurl.com/3xgeo3

MrIndigo, this is called Confirmation Bias.

Lately I SWEAR I will hear people talking somewhere in my house. I can't make it out or where it is...but it's different from my normal hallucinations in 2 ways. Basically it's a 3 second conversation or something (sounds like two people) that I can't make out and it's distant, non specific and more than one 'word'. MUCH creepier but makes me freak out less.

 

[RaRaRabbit]

Eh.... I was put into school a little early, and they ended up moving me ahead a grade when I was waaaay little. I think that added to the stress induced school years.

I was about 7 when they tested me for ADD. Discovered I had it pretty bad. They also did an IQ test, and... I am not sure how the scoring worked (I apparently got something like a 120, which by their chart and scoring scale, a kid my age usually was at about 90 or 100), but I was above average by quite a bit, but mostly in Spatial intelligence ("picture smart"), Interpersonal intelligence ("people smart"), and Intrapersonal intelligence ("self smart"). I also had a slight advantage at musical intelligence, but not much at all. My memory was also crazy odd. Remembering stupid things that I probably would never need to know, but then I would look at numbers and blank out.

Either way, they saw this IQ test, and paired it up with my ADD testing, and decided, HEY LETS LOAD THIS KID UP WITH DRUGS.


Anddddd thats the last I remember up until I was in about 7th grade. Seriously, I can't remember much at all. They did more IQ tests, to discover I had decent Linguistic intelligence ("word smart") as time went on, mainly in the ability to explain myself and understand directions easily. But with my ADD they just kept loading me with different drugs.

The things I DO remember were heavily influenced by stress and the drugs... Insomnia... I couldn't sleep for days very often, as I was afraid the house was going to burn down, getting older and dieing, getting older in general, the dark made me grind my teeth, I had insane amounts of energy and emotional outbursts, and overall, I couldn't sit still. There were times when I was disconnected with the world so much that I would sit and stare at the ceiling fan for long periods of time. It was so tough for me to study in grade school, especially with the medications. I do remember myself sitting at a desk with tutors trying to get me to absorb information and my lack of interest (thanks ADD) constantly killed it for me and I just couldn't absorb anything.

Finally they got me off the meds (or more so, I just quit taking them), and it was as if this fog lifted off, and everything after that point seems much more clear. In High School I could go through classes not taking notes or opening a book and still making good grades on my tests, with no studying time at all (or very little, if any). To this day, I have been able to pull A's and B's with the minimal amount of work necessary in all classes.

I now know a lot more about ADD and ADHD. I am now teaching art and design to elementary school and high school, and I can recognize ADD in a student immediately. I feel that as I learned more about ADD I began to see the world much more clearly in how I was able to understand it. I began to find ways to focus my attention or energy on things to become better.


I know this is relatively long for a post on ADD, and I dont want to make it seem like I am gloating about my IQ tests or whatever, but this is what I am getting at...: I know drugs to handle mental illness are a necessity for some people... but it was the worst time of my life. It was the worst thing a kid my age would have had to go through.

 

[tape]

Isn't MPD called DID nowadays anyway?

Finally they got me off the meds (or more so, I just quit taking them), and it was as if this cloud of fog lifted off, and everything after that point seems much more clear. In High School I could go through classes not taking notes or opening a book and still making good grades on my tests, with no studying time at all (or very little, if any). To this day, I have been able to pull A's and B's with the minimal amount of work necessary in all classes.

isn't that High School for everyone though? You don't even need to try there.

 

[MrIndigo]

MrIndigo, this is called Confirmation Bias.

Lately I SWEAR I will hear people talking somewhere in my house. I can't make it out or where it is...but it's different from my normal hallucinations in 2 ways. Basically it's a 3 second conversation or something (sounds like two people) that I can't make out and it's distant, non specific and more than one 'word'. MUCH creepier but makes me freak out less.

The stuff about the airplane crashes etc. certainly is, or at least is a Sharpshooter Paradox, but the experiment itself seems valid.

 

[RaRaRabbit]

isn't that High School for everyone though? You don't even need to try there.

I partially agree, but I wouldn't say that. Different school districts have different standards, and depending on the money the school gets or the teachers, every school is different. Not everyone can go through high school as easily as others. Home environments and cliques can greatly factor a students decision in their work and how well they can handle classes. And, also, a lot of classes in high school can be considered "easy credits" where just doing the work is necessary, or in some cases, just being there. But AP classes and vocational center classes can be a little more intense, or even if the teacher is a bit more on the serious side... I wouldn't say "High School is easy," but I know it definitely can be for the most part, just remember it is different no matter where you go.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

taken from my radical left-wing blog, likestoramble

One of the oldies I knew from kindergarten linked me to his new website today. When I first saw that he started a charity, I was filled with joy. Finally, here’s a person who tries to do something instead of being a generic drone, pretending everything’s okay. Then I actually looked at the website. I can’t remember the last time I’ve been this disappointed. It’s yet another mental health charity.

The website’s mission page states that their dream is a new generation where people are “able to see those with Schizophrenia and other mental illnesses as men and women, brothers and sisters, husbands and wives; a generation that allows people to look beyond the myths, misconceptions and pre-judgements that confuse and frighten people”. I’m going to tell you why this is going in completely the wrong direction. If you are the sort of person who plugs their ears and hums when they hear an anything they don’t like, do me a favour and stop reading here. You won’t like what I’ve got to say.

“Mental illness” – what does this mean? What is a mental illness? Most people would agree to the following definition: “a mental illness occurs when the mind is not functioning in the way it’s supposed to.” This begs the question, “how is the mind supposed to work?” and the only answer is “like everyone else’s.” So a person with a mental illness is a person who doesn’t think in the way that society has decided is acceptable. A person with a mental illness is anybody who happens to be too different from the norm.

Does this sound outrageous? Yes, and rightly so, but it’s true, and I can back it up with a historical example. Until the 1970s, homosexuality was officially classified as a mental disorder and “sick gays” were treated on a regular basis. Did any of the treatments turn their patients straight? Hell no, but that didn’t stop the doctors from trying. Meanwhile, charities were working to raise money for homosexuality treatment research.

Now we have the same thing being applied in a million other situations. If a person is very reclusive – more introverted than is deemed acceptable – then they’re not just shy any more. Suddenly they have Autism or Asperger’s Syndrome. Furthermore, psychiatry makes the claims that these “symptoms” can be cured and also that they should. Why can’t they just be shy? And what if they’re perfectly happy to be shy? Why should anyone interfere with another person’s state of mind?

Arbitrarily defining unusual behaviour as an illness is not science. Using drugs to dampen the mind’s ability to feel emotions is not medicine. Locking people up and forcibly drugging them when they haven’t done anything except be different is simply evil. This is what charities like Light the Way are funding.

Here’s what “mental illness” is: it’s a term doctors use to make you believe there’s something wrong with you when there isn’t. We already know that every mind works differently. Some people’s minds work very differently. These people are said to have schizophrenia, or Asperger’s, or some other non-existent disease, when the truth is that they are just different, nothing more. Further, trying to “treat” these non-existent diseases doesn’t work and never has.

This is what really bothers me about the above quote. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the mind’s functioning. We shouldn’t have to look past people’s mental illnesses. We should be acknowledging that they’re fictitious and irrelevant.

In the future, maybe there will be a drug that will permanently change how people’s minds work, but would you want it? I wouldn’t. I’m happy with the fucked-up mind I’ve got, thanks.

 

[RaRaRabbit]

I am a bit confused by what you are getting at... Are you saying you deny the existence of a mental illness like autism or asperger's, or paranoia, or anxiety?

I don't know, maybe I got it wrong. But I can't DENY the existence of a "mental illness" when symptoms of these cases are present in a group of people.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

those "symptoms" are just personality characteristics. having a set of unusual characteristics does not prove the existence of a "disease".

 

[RaRaRabbit]

But what about chemical imbalances or the inability to function with higher learning? Or emotionally function? What about certain areas of the brain that are deformed or different in which it affects the different emotions or understanding of a human being?

I have a family friend who is 30 years old and his mind is the maturity of a 13 year old. I don't know what it is that they call it, but he can't function in a lot of forms of higher learning, and can't do complex tasks. You consider these a problem with his personality?

What about someone who is depressed? Don't they have a chemical imbalance in their brain? (not all the time but I hear this can be the case often).

I mean, I can't just say "its a personality trait." I just don't see how it can be over generalized into that. If someone is shy, okay, I will give you that. But I just can't see how something like Autism is a "personality trait."

 

[tape]

of all the shit I've read in this thread this is BY FAR the dumbest of all. I don't even know if I want to elaborate

well yeah I guess if a person is suicidal hey that's just his way to be

or if someone has OCD and, you know, interferes with their life in a way that won't even let them live life... well shit sucks to be you

 

[Umbreon Dan]

ad hominem is a good form of argument, phantasia

edit: alright, since you edited your post

well yeah I guess if a person is suicidal hey that's just his way to be

you would deny a person his right to suicide?

or if someone has OCD and, you know, interferes with their life in a way that won't even let them live life... well shit sucks to be you

i was diagnosed with ocd. i live life. sucks to be me?

But what about chemical imbalances or the inability to function with higher learning? Or emotionally function? What about certain areas of the brain that are deformed or different in which it affects the different emotions or understanding of a human being?

what about it? everyone already knows that every brain works differently. many brains work similarly, but some do not. different does not imply wrong. a brain may be physically be in a different shape, but obviously it works well enough to keep him alive.

besides that, what do you know about another person's emotions? maybe that guy who "can't emotionally function" is actually loaded with emotion that he just doesn't know how to express?

I have a family friend who is 30 years old and his mind is the maturity of a 13 year old. I don't know what it is that they call it, but he can't function in a lot of forms of higher learning, and can't do complex tasks. You consider these a problem with his personality?

i don't consider it a problem at all. random mutations are a natural part of evolution.

What about someone who is depressed? Don't they have a chemical imbalance in their brain? (not all the time but I hear this can be the case often).

what? "chemical imbalance"? as in "you don't have the same chemicals as the rest of us so that's bad"?

 

[RaRaRabbit]

of all the shit I've read in this thread this is BY FAR the dumbest of all. I don't even know if I want to elaborate

well yeah I guess if a person is suicidal hey that's just his way to be

or if someone has OCD and, you know, interferes with their life in a way that won't even let them live life... well shit sucks to be you

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Veedrock]

Right to suicide? What the hell?

I'm not going to jump into the argument but the bolded bit doesn't make sense to me and I feel I should point it out.

Here’s what “mental illness” is: it’s a term doctors use to make you believe there’s something wrong with you when there isn’t. We already know that every mind works differently. Some people’s minds work very differently. These people are said to have schizophrenia, or Asperger’s, or some other non-existent disease, when the truth is that they are just different, nothing more. Further, trying to “treat” these non-existent diseases doesn’t work and never has.

In the future, maybe there will be a drug that will permanently change how people’s minds work, but would you want it? I wouldn’t. I’m happy with the fucked-up mind I’ve got, thanks.

You deny that there is mental illness then say you have a fucked-up mind? Or are you using fucked-up in relation to what everyone else thinks about it? If so that makes some sense but rather than ending on a note of "there's nothing wrong with me," you decide to give in and say you're messed up but ok with it. idk it just rings off key to me.

 

[Morm]

If a person is very reclusive – more introverted than is deemed acceptable – then they’re not just shy any more. Suddenly they have Autism or Asperger’s Syndrome.

While it is something that is often misdiagnosed and overused a bit (like ADHD was), I think it's pretty safe to say that Autism is a real disorder.

Why can’t they just be shy? And what if they’re perfectly happy to be shy? Why should anyone interfere with another person’s state of mind?

Being shy and having true autism are two different things. Have you ever looked up clinical definitions or better yet met someone who is clearly high on the autism spectrum? For the record, you can't "cure" symptoms of things like that. You can treat them, but when it's brain chemistry or development that fucks up you're pretty S.O.L. for a cure and treatment is all you get.

Does this sound outrageous? Yes, and rightly so, but it’s true, and I can back it up with a historical example. Until the 1970s, homosexuality was officially classified as a mental disorder and “sick gays” were treated on a regular basis. Did any of the treatments turn their patients straight? Hell no, but that didn’t stop the doctors from trying. Meanwhile, charities were working to raise money for homosexuality treatment research.

Prorgress happens? That sounds like scientific process to me. Until we understand how personality manifests OF COURSE this shit will be up in the air. It's moving more and more towards handling issues that prevent the person from functioning and dealing with symptoms and away from specific diagnoses hog tying someone into various things. Do you know what drove the homosexuality as a disease idea? People who followed a certain book that taught that it was wrong. Funny how cultures not told that actually didn't give a shit or openly did it all the time (Greece and Rome, for example).

Arbitrarily defining unusual behaviour as an illness is not science.

Trisomy 21 would argue that it's not arbitrary nor is it non science. I don't think you're a very good judge of what science is and isn't.

Using drugs to dampen the mind’s ability to feel emotions is not medicine.

Agreed, Valium is a super addictive drug. When you suffer from emotional dysregulation like I do and depression and certain emotions register in the same way physiologically as pain, I'm PRETTY SURE dampening emotions is medicine when they are harmful.

Locking people up and forcibly drugging them when they haven’t done anything except be different is simply evil. This is what charities like Light the Way are funding.

Yeah, except when they happen to be dangerous schizophrenics that later murder their whole family. It happens more often than you think.

Here’s what “mental illness” is: it’s a term doctors use to make you believe there’s something wrong with you when there isn’t.

Yeah I guess my hallucinations are totally manifested by doctors opinion that I should have hallucinations.

We already know that every mind works differently. Some people’s minds work very differently. These people are said to have schizophrenia, or Asperger’s, or some other non-existent disease

Are you actually serious? You compare Schizophrenia to Asperger's, firstly and secondly what the fuck planet do you live on? You are so ignorant it is simple frightening. You admit that every brain works differently but you seem unable to accept that some might work so differently that it is maladaptive in our society or even on a personal level (schizophrenia, for example). Do you see nothing fundamentally wrong with your thinking on this, especially if you employ something called a "Bell Curve" which is a decent tool for any population statistics?

This is what really bothers me about the above quote. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the mind’s functioning. We shouldn’t have to look past people’s mental illnesses. We should be acknowledging that they’re fictitious and irrelevant.

Please tell me, in all your wisdom, how the brain works and how personality manifests. If you are SUCH an authority, tell me your educational background so I can know you're not speaking out of your ass. In the meantime, how would you attribute behaviors like malicious cutting (not like shallow scratches, true pathological stuff) manifesting OUTSIDE of some doctor "telling you" that you should be doing it? You are totally ignoring so many sides and angles to this and whitewashing mental illness. I would like to know if you have EVER encountered someone who is truely pathological in their thinking and personality.

In the future, maybe there will be a drug that will permanently change how people’s minds work, but would you want it? I wouldn’t. I’m happy with the fucked-up mind I’ve got, thanks.

You admit your mind is fucked up yet refuse to acknowledge that if it was more fucked up, to a detriment to you, that it would be illness. Way to be completely ignorant and form a (rather faulty) opinion based on arm-waving and quite literally nothing.

Do you understand the term "Genetic Drift?" It accounts for the rampant increase of mental disorders quite nicely, I'd say. It doesn't take much for a brain to go all fucky, just ask someone going through menopause. That's a beast I wish upon no man!

Based on what I've read from you, I'd say that you have never really had pathological OCD and are basing things on pre-conceived beliefs. Honestly if your OCD was 100 times worse and you had all kinds of hideous rituals, I wonder, would it THEN qualify as illness?

 

[RaRaRabbit]

^ Everything Morm just said is exactly what I was thinking... When I first read his (Umbreon Dan's) first post I just couldn't conceive what he was saying and if he truly believed it. I kind of don't even know how I could argue back with someone this radical about this. But what Morm just said exactly what I was thinking.

I want to be as polite about this as possible, but honestly there is no beating around the bush... these views are kind of ignorant.

Based on what I've read from you, I'd say that you have never really had pathological OCD and are basing things on pre-conceived beliefs.

This sums up just about the entire thought process here, and its exactly what I was getting from it too.

 

[tape]

I'll actually quote someone else because right now I can't form a coherent line of thought

Quite simply, noone would expect you to walk around on a broken leg to heal it. You'd get a cast, and painkillers, and understanding.
Mental health problems are seen differently. You're not supposed to be WEAK and GAY and PUSSY and UNABLE TO COPE. You're supposed to jump around on that fucking broken leg, and tell everyone how much better you're feeling! It's bullshit. Pills can fuck you up, mentally and physically. It's better than being cripplingly miserable or dead.

 

[Nastyjungle]

my thoughts on the matter are that people with actual mental illnesses that have been recognized by a doctor need any help they want or can get to make them feel better

however in this day and age there seems to be a lot of self diagnosis which i dont particularly care for; people who get a sense of self importance from those sorts of things just need to fuck off

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Being shy and having true autism are two different things. Have you ever looked up clinical definitions or better yet met someone who is clearly high on the autism spectrum? For the record, you can't "cure" symptoms of things like that. You can treat them, but when it's brain chemistry or development that fucks up you're pretty S.O.L. for a cure and treatment is all you get.

i've met all kinds of people, and i've convinced many of them to agree with me.

Prorgress happens? That sounds like scientific process to me. Until we understand how personality manifests OF COURSE this shit will be up in the air. It's moving more and more towards handling issues that prevent the person from functioning and dealing with symptoms and away from specific diagnoses hog tying someone into various things. Do you know what drove the homosexuality as a disease idea? People who followed a certain book that taught that it was wrong. Funny how cultures not told that actually didn't give a shit or openly did it all the time (Greece and Rome, for example).

firstly, i enjoyed the bible jokes

anyway, what you're saying about the bible applies to everything else as well. you wouldn't think a person who washed their hands fifteen times a day was sick if you weren't told that they were. you would think "this person cares about their health" or (at worst) "this person washes their hands unusually often!"

Trisomy 21 would argue that it's not arbitrary nor is it non science. I don't think you're a very good judge of what science is and isn't.

science has a very straightforward definition. furthermore, trisomy 21 really hasn't got anything to do with it. i don't care how many chromosomes you have, a person is a person, and every person is different. why should you try to tell people how many chromosomes they ought to have?

Agreed, Valium is a super addictive drug. When you suffer from emotional dysregulation like I do and depression and certain emotions register in the same way physiologically as pain, I'm PRETTY SURE dampening emotions is medicine when they are harmful.

valium is not a cure or a treatment for a "disease". maybe it makes you happier, and if it does, that's great news. but doing valium to make you happier is no different from doing pot to make you happier. i think we can agree that pot isn't a treatment for autism?

Yeah, except when they happen to be dangerous schizophrenics that later murder their whole family. It happens more often than you think.

i would be willing to bet that fewer than 2% of people diagnosed with schizophrenia would murder their whole family. psychiatry cannot predict whether i will murder my whole family or not. locking people up on the grounds that they "might commit a crime" if you don't is nothing short of outrageous.

Yeah I guess my hallucinations are totally manifested by doctors opinion that I should have hallucinations.

do you enjoy hallucinations? lots of people do lsd or psilocybin specifically to hallucinate.

Are you actually serious? You compare Schizophrenia to Asperger's, firstly and secondly what the fuck planet do you live on? You are so ignorant it is simple frightening. You admit that every brain works differently but you seem unable to accept that some might work so differently that it is maladaptive in our society or even on a personal level (schizophrenia, for example). Do you see nothing fundamentally wrong with your thinking on this, especially if you employ something called a "Bell Curve" which is a decent tool for any population statistics?

when did i compare them? i didn't say they were the same. they're similar in the sense that they are both defined by psychiatry and neither exists, but other than that, they really don't have much in common.

i'm willing to admit that some random mutations are not helpful to survival. i just don't consider that an illness.

Please tell me, in all your wisdom, how the brain works and how personality manifests.

i don't know how the mind works. nobody knows. that's my point. we shouldn't be saying "your brain works worse than mine" because we have no idea how either of them works.

In the meantime, how would you attribute behaviors like malicious cutting (not like shallow scratches, true pathological stuff) manifesting OUTSIDE of some doctor "telling you" that you should be doing it? You are totally ignoring so many sides and angles to this and whitewashing mental illness. I would like to know if you have EVER encountered someone who is truely pathological in their thinking and personality.

you don't think people should be allowed to harm themselves? i don't see your point. some people just want to harm themselves. taking a dick up the ass, for example, is widely considered painful, but that doesn't stop some people from doing it.

"truely pathological" doesn't exist. i have met all kinds of people. some of them, you would call crazy.

You admit your mind is fucked up yet refuse to acknowledge that if it was more fucked up, to a detriment to you, that it would be illness. Way to be completely ignorant and form a (rather faulty) opinion based on arm-waving and quite literally nothing.

calling stuff arm-waving is a form of arm-waving

Do you understand the term "Genetic Drift?" It accounts for the rampant increase of mental disorders quite nicely, I'd say. It doesn't take much for a brain to go all fucky, just ask someone going through menopause. That's a beast I wish upon no man!

what? funny people are having funny kids and that's supposed to prove something?

Based on what I've read from you, I'd say that you have never really had pathological OCD and are basing things on pre-conceived beliefs. Honestly if your OCD was 100 times worse and you had all kinds of hideous rituals, I wonder, would it THEN qualify as illness?

that's correct. i do not, nor have i ever had, ocd, because it does not exist. (and no, it wouldn't.)

Right to suicide? What the hell?

i'm not going to get too into this, but basically, one of the key concepts of owning property is that you have the right to damage or destroy it. if you deny people that right, you are basically telling them that they don't own their bodies. pretty 1984 if you ask me!

there's also kind of the issue that there's no way to enforce a ban on suicide (if you're dead, there's nothing your government can do to you)

further reading, if you want it

I'm not going to jump into the argument but the bolded bit doesn't make sense to me and I feel I should point it out.



You deny that there is mental illness then say you have a fucked-up mind? Or are you using fucked-up in relation to what everyone else thinks about it? If so that makes some sense but rather than ending on a note of "there's nothing wrong with me," you decide to give in and say you're messed up but ok with it. idk it just rings off key to me.

that was kind of a joke; my mind is not fucked-up in any way, except in the minds of people who think it is. and thinking my mind is fucked-up is just fine, provided you don't try to make me do anything about it, because i like it. to me, being happy is the sign that your mind could not possibly work any better than it already is.

 

[Morm]

trisomy 21 is an example of a mental condition derived from a known genetic issue. It completely blows your notion of mental illness being nonexistant and nonscience out of the water.

Are you actually saying "who am I to tell a person how many chromosomes they have?" By definition, a functional genome of a given organism tells you that.

From what I have just read it looks like you are actually not trying to troll but approaching things from the same viewpoint as my therapist- everyone is fucked up, there is no normal. That's very true! However, there is a normal baseline for society and what is expected to function. There are people that legitimately suffer from issues like hallucinations. There are people that legitimately have down's syndrome (Trisomy 21). Honestly eve you must admit that not every brain develops properly and not every brain will have excellent brain chemistry.

I do fully agree that coddled little bitches scratching their arms to get attention and like a good 80-90% of mental illness is just silly coddling. That said, there are some serious genetic factors that are linked to many conditions, as well as brain abnormalities and etc. For example, my aunt had brain cancer and went fucking NANNERS. Like completely bat shit crazy. I wonder if you would write that off as the cancer or just agree with me that the cancer CAUSED her mental illness?

Genetic drift is quite legitimate- there is no selection factor to weed out people who are malignant or struggle, everyone gets to breed so negative mutations get amplified far more than ever. It's a contributor to increased cancer rates and other issues.

For the record, my hallucinations are not fun. They are terrifying and mess with my mind and mood, as well as possibly trigger psychotic episodes. There are many different kinds of hallucinations, after all. I'd say that if a mental illness has adverse effects like self harm, suicide, constant discomfort, paranoia, psychosis and etc...yeah. That is something that is not favorable and deserves treatment.

Observing that arm waving is going is not a form of arm waving, it's an observation.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Are you actually saying "who am I to tell a person how many chromosomes they have?" By definition, a functional genome of a given organism tells you that.

um no i'm not

why should you try to tell people how many chromosomes they ought to have?

edit:

trisomy 21 is an example of a mental condition derived from a known genetic issue. It completely blows your notion of mental illness being nonexistant and nonscience out of the water.

no, it doesn't. having unique genetics is not an issue. everybody is unique in some way. some ways are good, and some are bad. that's evolution in action.

everyone is fucked up, there is no normal. That's very true! However, there is a normal baseline for society and what is expected to function. There are people that legitimately suffer from issues like hallucinations. There are people that legitimately have down's syndrome (Trisomy 21). Honestly eve you must admit that not every brain develops properly and not every brain will have excellent brain chemistry.

why would i admit that? i'm pretty sure it's not true. there is no "proper" way for the brain to develop. we don't expect every brain to develop in the same way. and really, the ability to wake up in the morning is a sign that there's some crazy-ass chemistry going on in there.

I do fully agree that coddled little bitches scratching their arms to get attention and like a good 80-90% of mental illness is just silly coddling. That said, there are some serious genetic factors that are linked to many conditions, as well as brain abnormalities and etc. For example, my aunt had brain cancer and went fucking NANNERS. Like completely bat shit crazy. I wonder if you would write that off as the cancer or just agree with me that the cancer CAUSED her mental illness?

it sounds like having brain cancer changed the way her brain works. that was to be expected. working differently does not make it sick. if jesus came down and told me he existed, i would believe it (ie. go fucking nanners) but wouldn't you do the same? we didn't suddenly contract an illness (christianitis...)

For the record, my hallucinations are not fun. They are terrifying and mess with my mind and mood, as well as possibly trigger psychotic episodes. There are many different kinds of hallucinations, after all. I'd say that if a mental illness has adverse effects like self harm, suicide, constant discomfort, paranoia, psychosis and etc...yeah. That is something that is not favorable and deserves treatment.

i'm sorry for you, then. i'm guessing you do drugs to make them stop happening, but please don't call that a treatment. you just do drugs because you happen to like them! it has nothing to do with "sickness".

lastly, can you prove that having hallucinations is a bad thing? here's the thing: we don't know dicks about the universe. we don't know how it got here. we don't know if it really exists or not. everything around us could literally all be the creations of somebody's imagination.

so what makes you so sure that having hallucinations is wrong? maybe you actually have a special enlightenment. maybe those conversations that you here are really happening somehow. i know this sounds ludicrous, but literally the only evidence you have for saying that the universe doesn't naturally have spoken words floating around it is "normal people don't hear them" which is obviously a fallacy