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Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread v2
- Thread starter Celticpride
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About new metagame trends:
*M-Sableye stall is back in full force, and thanks to Duggy's buff in attack it's more annoying than ever. And while this gen added some answers against it, it's still the easiest playstyle (in my opinion) to get wins with.
*There's a team with BP Scolipede that's also very annoying to beat and it's getting more common. The idea is to BP speed into one of 3/4 different pokes with SD/Tail Glow in order to become an instant win condition.
*Trick room teams are starting to be a thing again. While they're still very gimmicky, they can quickly beat you if you're not prepared for them (aka no protect to stall time).
*Watch out for Quiver Dance+Z-Stone Pheromosa. Without priority or a healthy special wall you're dead.
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Thanks for the update. I knew Duggy stall was a problem played it myself for free wins, but everything else is I didn't know. Trick room rise popularity is surprise.
How is HO? I've always been partial to bulky offense, but I'm interested to see if there are any successful HO teams floating around. like xtra$hine's birdspam from last generation, how have teams like that adapted and changed in this meta? I know birdspam is not as viable anymore, but I feel like there's still some potential for HO
Use Pheromosa and Tapu Lele. Good teammates to add are Mega Alakazam, Jolteon, Gengar and any other fast grounded sweepers you can come up with.
Gastrodon in my opinion just has to much competition now to be viable. Might work if you need an electric and rain check rolled into one but given neither playstyle is prominent there's better choices.
Reuniclus is still decent, benefits from the existence of lele and it's fun to pair with clef for magic guard spam. That said dark spam is very common, taunt is popular and the meta in general is just unkind to it. Pheromosa also does huge dmg with u-turn.
As far as I can tell there both C rank so there's potential and If your getting good results tho I'd say stick with them. But they are ranked as low as they are for a reason
Reuniclus is still decent, benefits from the existence of lele and it's fun to pair with clef for magic guard spam. That said dark spam is very common, taunt is popular and the meta in general is just unkind to it. Pheromosa also does huge dmg with u-turn.
As far as I can tell there both C rank so there's potential and If your getting good results tho I'd say stick with them. But they are ranked as low as they are for a reason
https://twitter.com/SerebiiNet/status/825989852378300417
Seems Mawilite and Beedrillite are coming! They're gonna be distributed through Online Competitions. Called it!
So happy Beedrill is getting it's Mega released. It's arguably the biggest winner of the Mega Evolution Speed Change in my opinion.
Seems Mawilite and Beedrillite are coming! They're gonna be distributed through Online Competitions. Called it!
So happy Beedrill is getting it's Mega released. It's arguably the biggest winner of the Mega Evolution Speed Change in my opinion.
From the look of things, we might get the rest of the unreleased stones at some point, too. Can't wait for sceptilite!
I perfectly agree with this judgement because now Beedrill can free a moveslot (because Protect is no longer needed for its first turn). The possibility tu run this set is very appealing:
Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Drill Run (instead of Protect) to get rid of annoying Steels (bar some exceptions) that walls you otherwise
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
STAB Poison Jab + Adaptability is really nice to have in this metagame with all the Tapus around. It is a newfound good cleaner and momentum grabber for HO.
I still see Pheromosa one subrank higher that Mega-Beedrill because of the opportunity cost of using another Megastone and SR neutrality (instead of being weak to it) is a huge trait for a frail U-Turner.
===> in my opinion Mega Beedrill can start from A- rank (A minus rank).
We're not sure when the others are coming out, when they're coming out, and how they're coming out. They could be released en masse or just in pairs like these. We do follow the cartridge to the letter; so playing around with soon to be released megas isn't really an option (aside from Maw and M-Bee, which will be legal once it arrives in feb).
This has been generally the way to go. An example would be Volcanion and Hoopa-Unbound, in the game's code for sure in ORAS, it was definitely discussed and theorymonned, but were only made legal once their movie events came out, and then were tested/ranked.
This has been generally the way to go. An example would be Volcanion and Hoopa-Unbound, in the game's code for sure in ORAS, it was definitely discussed and theorymonned, but were only made legal once their movie events came out, and then were tested/ranked.
Fair enough; I was looking at it in the same context as Bank. We knew the general release period of Bank, but we didn't know when it was coming out until it actually did. By confirming that the remaining mega stones will be released over time, similar to the release of the beedrillite and the mawilite, they've confirmed that these megas haven't been dropped like the gems were, and that we have a general release period for the remaining mega stones. But, this does effectively make them all event-status Pokémon, so the method of their application does fit here.
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IMO Only the Mawilite and Beedrillite should have the same treatment as the entire Pokebank meta right now, because we have an idea of when they are released (next month).
We don't know when the other unreleased Mega Stones will appear, so it's best to keep them banned, just like with Marshadow.
With Sucker Punch nerf (BP and Lele everywhere) and Dugtrio on every stall team, hopefully Mega Maw can stick around this gen. Was a really fun mega to use last gen.
Beedrill has the chance to be really good this gen cause of how valuable strong Poison attacks are. The extra moveslot obviously helps, you can run Knock Off+Drill Run on the same set now but I think Pursuit, Toxic Spikes, and Endeavor could also be pretty neat.
Beedrill has the chance to be really good this gen cause of how valuable strong Poison attacks are. The extra moveslot obviously helps, you can run Knock Off+Drill Run on the same set now but I think Pursuit, Toxic Spikes, and Endeavor could also be pretty neat.
Well, that's awesome mega-bee is coming back, but there's no way it's A- rank.
It's outclassed in nearly every aspect by phermosa, except that it has a significantly stronger poison jab for killing fairies. Phermosa has a much stronger Stab in high jump kick, and actually has icebeam to hit lando, along with being faster than bee.
Beedrill should really only be doing one of two things:
1. Killing something with poison jab
2. U-turning out, while doing a hefty chunk.
This is why I think options like drill run and knock off are largely superfluous. Drill run is only useful against heatran and magnezone. In both cases, you're probably better off clicking U-turn than trying to predict the switch. Protect I think is actually still a great option, because thanks to beedrills speed and pivoting power, it can act as a great scout-- lock something into a choice move and then pivot to a resist before they can hurt bee. The real pain of running protect before is that using it to evolve was basically an invitation for your opponent to get a free turn. No longer.
Concerning a fourth slot, t-spikes is not going to be viable IMO. You are just wasting way too much of beedrills time and momentum by sinking turns into easily-removed hazards.
Endeavor and tailwind are probably the best choices. Endeavor for acting as "coverage" against fat stuff that you otherwise can't hit. Tailwind acts in the same way as tailwind talonflame last gen. Use it when you have no other options, to allow a teammate to come in and clean up. Because of beedrills speed, it is one of, if not the best suicide tailwind setters.
Sorry if this is a little preemptive, but mega-bee was one of my favorite and most used pokemon last gen, so I'm excited to see its return.
It's outclassed in nearly every aspect by phermosa, except that it has a significantly stronger poison jab for killing fairies. Phermosa has a much stronger Stab in high jump kick, and actually has icebeam to hit lando, along with being faster than bee.
Beedrill should really only be doing one of two things:
1. Killing something with poison jab
2. U-turning out, while doing a hefty chunk.
This is why I think options like drill run and knock off are largely superfluous. Drill run is only useful against heatran and magnezone. In both cases, you're probably better off clicking U-turn than trying to predict the switch. Protect I think is actually still a great option, because thanks to beedrills speed and pivoting power, it can act as a great scout-- lock something into a choice move and then pivot to a resist before they can hurt bee. The real pain of running protect before is that using it to evolve was basically an invitation for your opponent to get a free turn. No longer.
Concerning a fourth slot, t-spikes is not going to be viable IMO. You are just wasting way too much of beedrills time and momentum by sinking turns into easily-removed hazards.
Endeavor and tailwind are probably the best choices. Endeavor for acting as "coverage" against fat stuff that you otherwise can't hit. Tailwind acts in the same way as tailwind talonflame last gen. Use it when you have no other options, to allow a teammate to come in and clean up. Because of beedrills speed, it is one of, if not the best suicide tailwind setters.
Sorry if this is a little preemptive, but mega-bee was one of my favorite and most used pokemon last gen, so I'm excited to see its return.
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Gimmicky but might as well give a mention to Fell Stinger. It received a buff in this gen. Increased to 50 Power and now raises ATK by 3 if it knocks something out. It's better off with U-Turn still though.
I'm really curious to see what Mega Mawile ends up as, given that Magearna is a Steel/Fairy type that's really powerful on the special side and is much fatter. I don't think it's as busted as it was on XY/ORAS, and might actually just be...mediocre (a la Mega Scizor) due to the nerf in Sucker Punch BP, the addition of faster/powerful mons (with Z-moves to boot), and defensive stuff like Toxapex (which walls most Mega Mawile).
Yea also really interested to see what it does this time around. I hated it in ORAS, but I feel like it's gonna be a bit better now.
Dropping sucker gives it a bit more room to play with (tpunch, stone edge, brick break, ice punch, fire fang), not a ton of options.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 166-196 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 204-240 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 218-258 (54.7 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 320-380 (83.9 - 99.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 360-428 (102.2 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Bulu: 324-384 (94.1 - 111.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 220-259 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
highest attack in the game is still highest attack in the game tho.
Mawile still gets Swords Dance.
Now, if it'll have the opportunity to actually get one up under current metagame conditions is a valid question, but considering the switches it can force and its coverage (it still gets Crunch if it wants Dark Coverage, plus Ice/Thunder Punch, Fire Fang, Stone Edge, and Brick Break), if SD+3 attacks becomes a thing, things could get ugly.
Now, if it'll have the opportunity to actually get one up under current metagame conditions is a valid question, but considering the switches it can force and its coverage (it still gets Crunch if it wants Dark Coverage, plus Ice/Thunder Punch, Fire Fang, Stone Edge, and Brick Break), if SD+3 attacks becomes a thing, things could get ugly.
I doubt M-Mawile will want to be dropping Sucker Punch much, even with Lele around. Faster teams can dispatch of it pretty easily if it isn't running SP. It's also nice to have some kind of counterplay against Duggy and Magnezone if it gets trapped.
As for it's set Thunderpunch is a bit redundant unless you're specifically aiming to bop Toxapex. Fire Fang already covers Skarm and Celesteela while also helping out against things it couldn't otherwise beat such as M-Scizor and Jirachi and Ferrothorn.
Ice Punch may be a bit unnecessary as well as non bulky Landorus-T is generally clean 2hko'd by Play Rough through Intimidate (bulky variants only need about 25% prior before they can't switch in) and no other Ground type in the tier really wants to switch into it.
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