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Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread v3
- Thread starter Gary
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I think they ate going to release them later in the future due to the fact that they are getting swarmed with thing about Marshadow, and those Megas are kinda OP.
Well, you can still use the non-mega gross, and run AV (Which is what I would do in your case). But I do see your point because the non-mega can't run earthquake as well as the mega can, but I just resort to ice punch.
About the Bulu teammates though, Mamo really is the best check for Bulu's four times poison weakness, and also deals with it's other ones pretty well.
I don't like the hate on the finghtinium z, because I run it with my sacred swords kartana, and it is extremely useful and powerful.
Well, you can still use the non-mega gross, and run AV (Which is what I would do in your case). But I do see your point because the non-mega can't run earthquake as well as the mega can, but I just resort to ice punch.
About the Bulu teammates though, Mamo really is the best check for Bulu's four times poison weakness, and also deals with it's other ones pretty well.
I don't like the hate on the finghtinium z, because I run it with my sacred swords kartana, and it is extremely useful and powerful.
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Stone Edge is only good if you can predict the Zard Y or Volcarona switch. If you can get it, it's an on point move to have.
2 things.
1. Gamefreak has no reason to care about the state of OU.
2. They're definitely releasing them soon, and based on when the prizes for previous competitions have been distributed, it's probably gonna be early-mid July.
Why i'm seeing so much Staraptors?
Mega Manectric will be a fair choice of Mega imo...Overheat is the cherry of the cake
TL;DR: Mega Manectric is good, especially with Koko and Lando-T. Has a strong niche.
The gen 7 change to MEvo speed will help it outpace stuff it couldn't before in gen 6 in this meta, though that goes along with other MEvos so it loses a few points with that.
Eh, the Megas that outspeed it post-Mega are what, Beedrill/Aero/Sceptile/Zam? 3 of those outspeed under the old mechanics, and Beedrill can't OHKO you while you can in return.
Meanwhile the change lets it outspeed stuff like base 110s (Gengar/Latios are probably the big ones) and Specs Keldeo.
The speed change is basically a straight buff.
To me, the main meta change Manectric's presence will bring is the near-invalidation of builds reliant on Ferrothorn/Zygarde/Tapu Bulu to check electrics. This is not to say Zygarde was ever a good electric check---defensively uninvested Zygarde is always 2HKO'd by Zap Plate/Magnet Tapu Koko's HP Ice, and lacking a switchin to a 'mon that isn't even close to a breaker categorically given its pitiful special attack with 130 speed is completely stupid if you're running anything as fat as bulky offense or fatter. I'd also like to note that Koko is annoying as hell to revenge kill, because its only weaknesses, Ground and Poison, suffer from the fact that nearly every good team has immunities to those types--if not multiple (see: ground immunes and steel types, which there may be multiple of a fair amount of the time). This means that scarfers capable of OHKOing Koko have to lock themselves into EQ/Sludge Wave/Gunk (scarf gren being a scarfed gunk user) to RK, which can simply be met by pivoting into w/e immunity (Lando-T on scarfchomp EQ, literally any steel-type on the poison move). Basically, what I'm trying to get at is that not running a Koko switch-in is a stupid meme that needs to die and makes me just as sick as those god-awful ORAS builds that used Rotom to check Specs Keldeo.
Mega Manectric 2HKOs even SpDef Coil Zyg the majority of the time with or without SR damage via HP Ice, it fries Bulu and Ferrothorn with Flamethrower or Overheat, and Amoonguss is reliant entirely Spore to deal with it. I predict Manectric will be a decent pick for a while until AV Tangrowth gets spammed even more than it already does or until Latios usage picks up (which it for sure will---Flamethrower can 2HKO AV Tang with very little prior damage).
mega ttar might be -ok- until lop drops and then it will sink back to the shadow realm. that things ass lol
tl;dr: av tang will become the uncontested best elec check in the tier and latios usage should rise. manectric will probably not be that great still but will likely have its uses. mega ttar is prolly gonna be asscheeks
also mane likes ttar not being the god-king of ou like it was in oras so there's that but it will inevitably rise back up so idk
Mega Manectric 2HKOs even SpDef Coil Zyg the majority of the time with or without SR damage via HP Ice, it fries Bulu and Ferrothorn with Flamethrower or Overheat, and Amoonguss is reliant entirely Spore to deal with it. I predict Manectric will be a decent pick for a while until AV Tangrowth gets spammed even more than it already does or until Latios usage picks up (which it for sure will---Flamethrower can 2HKO AV Tang with very little prior damage).
mega ttar might be -ok- until lop drops and then it will sink back to the shadow realm. that things ass lol
tl;dr: av tang will become the uncontested best elec check in the tier and latios usage should rise. manectric will probably not be that great still but will likely have its uses. mega ttar is prolly gonna be asscheeks
also mane likes ttar not being the god-king of ou like it was in oras so there's that but it will inevitably rise back up so idk
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I think Mega Mane will hover around the B+ range at first. It has potential as a countermeasure to offense, it abuses a good number of balance staples (Celesteela, Ferrothorn, Zygarde) as well, and its own checks have mostly declined in usage with the exception of AV Tangrowth, which is kind of a shaky answer anyway. I'm hesitant to say it will stay at that rank because the monster that is Mega Lopunny has yet to come, and I think people will struggle to justify using Mega Manectric over Mega Lopunny on most teams. It also doesn't utterly crush any given matchup the way some other Megas (like Pinsir) can...it's just an all-around solid attacker and that could be its undoing.
I agree that Latios usage will rise in the near future but I don't know if I would attribute it to Mega Manectric or simply people realizing it's still a good Pokemon. Specs alone has very few safe switch-ins and I've seen a handful of Scarf and Z-move variants running around.
Mega Tyranitar has the same issue it always had: few qualities to distinguish itself from its base form.
lol Mega Abomasnow
I agree that Latios usage will rise in the near future but I don't know if I would attribute it to Mega Manectric or simply people realizing it's still a good Pokemon. Specs alone has very few safe switch-ins and I've seen a handful of Scarf and Z-move variants running around.
Mega Tyranitar has the same issue it always had: few qualities to distinguish itself from its base form.
lol Mega Abomasnow
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Mega Manectric is so damn good ... it is like, what Tapu Koko should be to be broken as hell. I know this isn't an accurate description, but the massive special attack boost really does help manectric putting in work: If your enemy runs Tapu Koko you'll realize how ridiculous its thunderbolts are. Furthermore Intimidate alongside the ever-present Landorus is just the icing on the cake. I really enjoy Mega Man in this metagame.
Also I think Overheat is better than Flamethrower. While latter is consistent, people have to realize that Standard Manetric OHKO MegaMawile with Overheat. It is just an amazing feeling also dealing a shit ton of damage to magearna(which is a godsend because Magearna has no priority moves itself and you can pick it off with Greninja)
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 258-304 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(just a calc to show that even the weakest of priority can finish this common pokemon off)
another great thing about MegaMan is being faster than MegaNinja. It is always satisfying putting your enemy in a tough spot because (obviously) Volt Switch OHKO the frog and its priority can't destroy manetric.
Very useful Pokemon in this metagame. The Mega-Buff really helps this Mega too!
Also I think Overheat is better than Flamethrower. While latter is consistent, people have to realize that Standard Manetric OHKO MegaMawile with Overheat. It is just an amazing feeling also dealing a shit ton of damage to magearna(which is a godsend because Magearna has no priority moves itself and you can pick it off with Greninja)
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 258-304 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(just a calc to show that even the weakest of priority can finish this common pokemon off)
another great thing about MegaMan is being faster than MegaNinja. It is always satisfying putting your enemy in a tough spot because (obviously) Volt Switch OHKO the frog and its priority can't destroy manetric.
Very useful Pokemon in this metagame. The Mega-Buff really helps this Mega too!
ManecKoko sounds really dangerous on paper. As cool as Mega Manectric is as a check to offense, base 135 SpA is rather meh for a Mega given the lack of a boosting item AND a lack of a boosting ability (bar Lightning Rod pre-Mega).
Manectric's power is roughly on par with Koko's Life Orb boosted attacks, so VoltTurning under Electric Terrain looks cool.
Not to mention, assuming an U-Turn, Mega Manectric (assuming it already Mega Evolved) is one of the few Electric-types Sash Dugtrio cannot beat, as its Sash will be broken.
4- Atk Tapu Koko U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dugtrio: 89-105 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manectric-Mega: 218-258 (77.5 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
EDIT: Wait, Sucker Punch. But either way Dugtrio cannot trap Manectric.
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 180-214 (89.5 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Manectric's power is roughly on par with Koko's Life Orb boosted attacks, so VoltTurning under Electric Terrain looks cool.
Not to mention, assuming an U-Turn, Mega Manectric (assuming it already Mega Evolved) is one of the few Electric-types Sash Dugtrio cannot beat, as its Sash will be broken.
4- Atk Tapu Koko U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dugtrio: 89-105 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manectric-Mega: 218-258 (77.5 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
EDIT: Wait, Sucker Punch. But either way Dugtrio cannot trap Manectric.
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 180-214 (89.5 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
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Personally I think Koko and Manectric can form a very effective type spam core on the same team, even. Manectric blows by the bulky grasses that check Koko thanks to fantastic fire-type coverage in Overheat, and also has a stronger HP Ice for Zygarde and defensive Lando. This leaves Koko free to run Taunt/NM sets to mess with slower builds, and the two of them of course have Electric Terrain benefiting them both.
Unfortunately both Tapu Koko and Mega Manectric have the same problem of being shit against more defensively oriented teams. In particular I think Mega Manectric has a worse stall matchup than any other Mega in the A/B ranks. It also stacks a weakness to AV Tangrowth, DD Zygarde (which does not die to HP Ice), and Ground types in general. There isn't a compelling reason to run these two Pokemon together instead of adopting another typespam core such as Tapu Lele + Mega Alakazam. You can argue that the core is functional but I have yet to see a reason why it should actually be used.
Not sure if I would rank Mega Manectric equal to Tapu Koko yet.
Having Fairy typing allows Koko to have some type of offensive checking power, while Manectric can't really safely switch into anything.
Electric Terrain allows Koko to change terrains, such as the popular Psychic Terrain, potentially shifting momentum in a match. Also allows terrain support for a team.
Yeah Manectric has a stronger Fire move but that's easy to predict, as it will be on 100% of it's movesets. Koko can still run Dazzling/HP Fire, in which forfeiting HP Ice can be easily covered by a teammate or just Dazzling Gleam itself against dragons. Also Koko can use Z-Crystals/Life Orb, while Manectric takes up a mega stone.
Koko has U-turn or Volt Switch, rather than just Volt Switch.
Only thing Manectric is mainly outspeeding over Koko is other Koko and transformed AshGren, which still has Water Shuriken.
Having Fairy typing allows Koko to have some type of offensive checking power, while Manectric can't really safely switch into anything.
Electric Terrain allows Koko to change terrains, such as the popular Psychic Terrain, potentially shifting momentum in a match. Also allows terrain support for a team.
Yeah Manectric has a stronger Fire move but that's easy to predict, as it will be on 100% of it's movesets. Koko can still run Dazzling/HP Fire, in which forfeiting HP Ice can be easily covered by a teammate or just Dazzling Gleam itself against dragons. Also Koko can use Z-Crystals/Life Orb, while Manectric takes up a mega stone.
Koko has U-turn or Volt Switch, rather than just Volt Switch.
Only thing Manectric is mainly outspeeding over Koko is other Koko and transformed AshGren, which still has Water Shuriken.
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???
Tapu Koko can run the Stallbreaker set which is actually dang solid, and that works great with MegaMan since the two can pivot freely into a breaker and get chip/Intimidate off.
AV Tangrowth is also heavily pressured since it takes 52-61% from Overheat (and then MegaMan just Volts out into the appropriate mon).
DD Zygarde takes 78-93% from MegaMan so it's certainly not setting up in front of it, and without LO, -1 Thousand Arrows into Espeed is likely to not kill, at which point you can easily revenge kill.
Other ground types hate MegaMan. Offensive Lando-T gets cleanly OHKO'd by HP Ice (Scarf isn't that common), Offensive Chomp dies to HP Ice+LO recoil (20% chance to just be OHKO'd by HP Ice), and Hippo takes almost 50% from HP Ice.
Stacking a ground weakness while having 2 offensive mons that don't have any defensive synergy and are weak to all forms of hazards is an annoying way to start a team tbh. Honestly I think this is Alola Raichu+Koko all over again, where they in theory work great together but in practice one ends up outperforming the other and it just doesn't work out well
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Alola riachu had no stand alone merit compared to mega metetric and they form a pivot core that can stall/wall break, while koko might not be the best partner ever I think it's not just hype
I agree with just about all of that, but I think KokoMane will be a better duo than KokoRaichu. Mega Manectric and Tapu Koko are both solid mons on their own, while no one would ever run Alolan Raichu without a ton of support. Mane and Koko also form a better volt-turn core since they are decently powerful to begin with and don't need to get to +2 to actually do something, unlike Alolan Raichu. Not to mention that Mega Manectric's Intimidate helps versus priority while A-Raichu gets bitch-slapped by Sucker Punch.
It's far too early to assert how effective KokoMane will be, but on paper it is clearly better than KokoRaichu.
I might run sets like this:
Tapu Koko @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-U-Turn
-Nature's Madness/Taunt
-HP Ice/Taunt/Nature's Madness/Grass Knot/Dazzling Gleam/whatever
Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 Def/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-HP Ice
-Overheat
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-U-Turn
-Nature's Madness/Taunt
-HP Ice/Taunt/Nature's Madness/Grass Knot/Dazzling Gleam/whatever
Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 Def/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-HP Ice
-Overheat
The dismal state of hazard removal could be helpful to Mega Manectric as VoltTurn combined with Spike stacking will be tough to deal with.
As for Manectric's performance against fat teams, I listed some calcs against the standard cancer SPL stall below.
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Sableye-Mega in Electric Terrain: 163-193 (53.6 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 192+ SpD Clefable in Electric Terrain: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex in Electric Terrain: 330-390 (108.5 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 180-214 (89.5 - 106.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 91-108 (14.1 - 16.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock -chip damage + pivoting into a breaker is nice
Skarm obviously drops.
in short, all manectric needs to threaten stall are 1: Terrain support from Koko, 2: Stealth Rock up, and 3: a breaker to deal with Chansey
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 192+ SpD Clefable in Electric Terrain: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex in Electric Terrain: 330-390 (108.5 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 180-214 (89.5 - 106.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 91-108 (14.1 - 16.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock -chip damage + pivoting into a breaker is nice
Skarm obviously drops.
in short, all manectric needs to threaten stall are 1: Terrain support from Koko, 2: Stealth Rock up, and 3: a breaker to deal with Chansey
So...what does Mega Manectric do against Stall that Koko alone doesn't?
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nothing because manec is utter dead weight vs stall
its really nothing special and teams should have already been prepared for elec/fire/ice coverage coming off the same mon given the popularity of 3atk zapdos. manecs pretty mediocre and its just good in the meta right now because people haven't adapted to it yet
manec + koko is also a surefire way to getting obliterated by scarf duggy so dont do that
its really nothing special and teams should have already been prepared for elec/fire/ice coverage coming off the same mon given the popularity of 3atk zapdos. manecs pretty mediocre and its just good in the meta right now because people haven't adapted to it yet
manec + koko is also a surefire way to getting obliterated by scarf duggy so dont do that
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