Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread!

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think remnants of this have been brought up in the PS chat and IRC n shit, but I think Trick Gothita is waaaayyy over-hyped right now. Don't get me wrong, being able to neuter and eliminate opposing walls is insanely helpful but its banking on the foe not using an attacking move; even if Gothita's running a RestCM set (Cheir) or something along those lines it's not great, mainly due to its lack of coverage moves, having to rely on Psychic as its only means of damage. Just because it got something new doesn't mean it needs to be used. Choice Scarf Gothita is just fine, but I don't think Trick is a better option that one of its coverage moves.

Also, I think the recent surge in Sticky Web is quite interesting. ORAS introduced a lot of slow, powerful threats to the metagame and a lot of players are using Sticky Web to compensate for the lower Speed tiers. Not to mention the added support for Sticky Web in Pumpkaboo which shuts down both Drilbur and Staryu. Surskit was the 16th most used Pokemon in November and I'm presuming more than half of that usage came from the week and a half after ORAS was introduced. Skrelp, Pumpkaboo and Pancham are all starting to creep up the usage stats at 21st, 23rd and 32nd, respectively. If the surge in Sticky Web usage continues, we'll probably end up seeing more Vullaby to deal with the three Pokemon mentioned above and still reliably Defog, resulting in (even) more Pawniard usage. Predicting HP Fighting becomes a viable 4th moveslot option on Vullaby, quite possibly even over Knock Off or Brave Bird.

Finally, and this points kinda obvious so I'll keep it quick, Croagunk is definitely going to spike in usage. It's really the only Pokemon that can reliably handle Pancham and Skrelp, while still acting as the fantastic glue-mon it's been in the past. As the newer ORAS threats rise, so will Croagunk, as it's sitting at 30th currently.
 
Last edited:
Mambo said:
Finally, and this points kinda obvious so I'll keep it quick, Croagunk is definitely going to spike in usage. It's really the only Pokemon that can reliably handle Pancham and Skrelp, while still acting as the fantastic glue-mon it's been in the past. As the newer ORAS threats rise, so will Croagunk, as it's sitting at 30th currently.
Click to expand...

It might also cause Zen Headbutt to find more usage on Pancham, as it is one of its new moves as of ORAS.
 
Sashay said:
It might also cause Zen Headbutt to find more usage on Pancham, as it is one of its new moves as of ORAS.
Click to expand...
I've been using ZHB heavily as my coverage move on Pancham, I have more than enough Fairy-type checks on most teams, but the ability to wipe out Fighting- and Poison-types is invaluable, not many other Fighting-types can take those on, plus Croagunk has been increasingly problematic as it checks so much in this meta.
 
The Avalanches said:
I've been using ZHB heavily as my coverage move on Pancham, I have more than enough Fairy-type checks on most teams, but the ability to wipe out Fighting- and Poison-types is invaluable, not many other Fighting-types can take those on, plus Croagunk has been increasingly problematic as it checks so much in this meta.
Click to expand...

Yea, I use it over Gunk Shot on my newest team.
 
This meta is really fun for me, lots of viable strategies. I made 6 different teams that I would think are viable enough to use in matches that kind of matter. I think an underrated mon is Honedge because of Abra's popularity, nothing can really safely switch into it and either OHKO it (LO variants) or at the very least break its sash. It can do a similar thing with Gastly but needs to avoid Shadow Ball.
 
I find that SD Pancham + 23/14/14 bulk 15 spatk rest in speed skrelp is rlly good in the current metagame. Using ZHB on Pancham allows it to eliminate Croagunk and free the path for Skrelp to devastate later. It doesn't need Gunk since Skrelp just demolishes any fairy that can stand in its way. Obviously the core gets fucked by Abra which is why team support for that like Spritzee/Priority User/Pursuit User/Scarfer is extremely helpful. With Pancham's Knock Off Support, Skrelp is stupid strong being able to OHKO Eviolite less standard Mienfoo with Hydro Pump. It rips holes in teams extremely effectively and allows an easy clean for a mon like Fletch which capitalizes on its counters being pressured and worn down.
 
Last edited:
snivy.jpg

Contrary Snivy
 
I just want to say I'm really glad that Grass-types (besides the same old fucking Foongus) are now actually a significant part of this metagame. I like Chespin, I like Pumpkaboo, and I'm sure Snivy is going to make its mark as well. Ground resists are really rare in this tier and Ground-types have Rock Slide for Flying-types, so I feel like it's a piece we've been missing that forces more variety, and I love it.
 
Snivy is going to be an interesting addition to this metagame, for sure. It hits 17 Speed and has a good defensive typing along with decent 45/55/55 defenses. It has basically no coverage, which is a little unfortunate, as it has to pick a complementary Hidden Power type, but the final two move slots can go to one of the cool support moves Snivy gets, including Glare, Knock Off, Synthesis, Taunt, and even the gimmicky Gastro Acid. I think I'm going to like it a lot, Chinchou has a lot to fear from this smug jackass.
 
Base 63 Speed is a bit unfortunate for Snivy. Running a Hidden Power with 30 IV in Speed (Fire, Fighting, Rock in particular) means it won't be able to hit 17 Speed. Contrary Leaf Storm is still amazing though; I'm looking forward to trying it out!
 
Realistically speaking, people are just going to run Choice Scarf variants and use HP Fire or Rock anyway.

It gets Knock Off as well, that's probably worth noting.

Coil (without Contrary) + Leech Seed sounds fun too :o
 
Snivy is probably going to be so damn good and scary.

Two most probable sets:

Snivy @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
Level: 5
EVs: 92 HP / 240 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Rock]/[Fire]
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off / Glare

Snivy @ Eviolite
Ability: Contrary
Level: 5
EVs: 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hidden Power [Ground]/[Ice]
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Substitute / Aromatherapy / Synthesis / Glare / Taunt
 
Okay time to make a physical Snivy set to troll with all the mess in the meta. Or a Mix set. If only Snivy was around when Memento was spammed.
 
Snivy's really not deserving the hype it gets. Contrary Leaf Storm sounds good at first, but then you remember that Pawniard and Fletchling, two offensive giants, are going to just laugh about Leaf Storm and set up. Foongus, Ferroseed, Ponyta, Croagunk, Vullaby, and a lot more will not care about Snivy and proceed to wrekt it. Its most common set is in all likelihood going to be a support set with Contrary only rounding it out as a pivot.
 
With 17 Speed, the ability to set up a Substitute on Chinchou or Drilbur, and the appropriate Hidden Power, I don't think we should sell it short so soon. It actually sounds like a really good Grass pivot that's both decently bulky and offensively threatening, and will be a good team glue in the same place as Chespin or Pumpkaboo.
 
I can see a moveset of Leaf Storm / Knock Off / Glare / Substitute being decently effective. Sure, Grass-typing isn't the greatest to hit with, but it could be a decent pivot/support poke.
 
QuoteCS said:
I can see a moveset of Leaf Storm / Knock Off / Glare / Substitute being decently effective. Sure, Grass-typing isn't the greatest to hit with, but it could be a decent pivot/support poke.
Click to expand...

That's what I was talking about with the most common set being a pivot. At least then it isn't screwed over by most of the meta 1 on 1
 
forgotten but not weak - thats how i'd describe Houndour in current/future meta. people stopped running that many checks to birds which just happen to check houndour(running 3 of them during krow era was nothing weird - i mean chou/archen and other rockmons)
Our fire Doge benefits because of that fact - havent seen a single team that can handle houndour offense so far. running dual dog+sr aka specs pix and LO physical dour* has proven to really work wonders for me, and i know it sounds gimmicky even for my standards. I've tried both abilities and can't really pick the better one - both have their uses but i prefer early bird just to not lose vs random trace duck or foongus
its worth mentioning that houndour clearly oneshots or outspeeds/ties and 2hkos most of hazard removing pokemon so its easy to keep rocks which are needed to secure some KOs
There are many weird-yet-surprisingly-good moves for dog - sub, flamecharge, snatch, torment, pursuit (torment fucks over so many mons its not even funny)
the only failsafe switch to dog is timburr which barely avoids a 2hko from this set if its sdef oriented but we have vulpix for it - also timburr cannot switch on houndour more than once when sun is up

*just happens to outprioritize and ohko fletch after rocks with Sucker Punch + gets sun boost on Fire Blast which does a ton without sun even when im physically oriented lol

doge hype
o and before i forget - it eats alive all of these worthless chespins and other new overhyped stuff thats supposed to be good (but its not) so most of the time doge offense has matchup advantage, to patch water weakness i'd suggest frillish which is the most based ghost rn - user Corporal Levi can confirm imo
yes im alive
 
I dunno who was saying doge isn't good but Pursuit trapping is wonderful in this meta. The wide variety of shit it check (not just overhyped shit but like Pawniard) is pretty broad.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top