Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread!

[Rowan]

just gonna use this thread to hype: where the fuck did birdspam go? It was massively hyped up as soon as murkrow left (for whatever reason), but died down not too long after, and FletchDig became the most popular Fletchling core. But Doduo and Fletchling are incredible together, Doduo is such an amazing wallbreaker that has powerful Brave Birds, Returns, and Knock Off to take down Bird Counters. It knocks off all flying-counters, like Magnemite, Archen, Chinchou, Tirtouga along with any bulky walls that might switch in like Spritzee, Snubbull and Porygon. It makes sweeping with SD fletchling so easy it's unreal. Why aren't people using this core? The great thing about Doduo, is you can just use it like a suicide wallbreaker. All it needs to do is sufficiently weaken bird counters, it doesn't even need to KO them, because it can easily weaken them for Fletchling to do the work.

Drifloon works with Fletchling too, because of Destiny Bond, but that is very predictable, and much more easily outplayed than Doduo. Taillow works with Guts Facade+Brave Bird+Steel Wing, but Doduo is the top bird, just because of Knock Off.

anybody else got any cores they want to hype up in this meta, that's working really well for them?

 

[infamy]

just gonna use this thread to hype: where the fuck did birdspam go? It was massively hyped up as soon as murkrow left (for whatever reason), but died down not too long after, and FletchDig became the most popular Fletchling core. But Doduo and Fletchling are incredible together, Doduo is such an amazing wallbreaker that has powerful Brave Birds, Returns, and Knock Off to take down Bird Counters. It knocks off all flying-counters, like Magnemite, Archen, Chinchou, Tirtouga along with any bulky walls that might switch in like Spritzee, Snubbull and Porygon. It makes sweeping with SD fletchling so easy it's unreal. Why aren't people using this core? The great thing about Doduo, is you can just use it like a suicide wallbreaker. All it needs to do is sufficiently weaken bird counters, it doesn't even need to KO them, because it can easily weaken them for Fletchling to do the work.

Drifloon works with Fletchling too, because of Destiny Bond, but that is very predictable, and much more easily outplayed than Doduo. Taillow works with Guts Facade+Brave Bird+Steel Wing, but Doduo is the top bird, just because of Knock Off.

anybody else got any cores they want to hype up in this meta, that's working really well for them?

this is how real men birdspam:

I'm real af

FletchBIRD (Fletchling)
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 200 Atk / 92 Def / 40 SpA / 20 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Overheat
- Swords Dance

RockBIRD (Archen) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 180 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Acrobatics

RunningBIRD (Doduo) @ Life Orb
Ability: Early Bird
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 10 HP
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- Knock Off
- Roost

BoomBIRD (Taillow) @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Atk / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Mild Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Heat Wave
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Boomburst

EggBIRD (Vullaby) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 156 Def / 236 SpD / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog

StarBIRD (Starly) @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- Roost
- U-turn

FletchBIRD because viability rankings say its good. RockBIRD because stealth rock. RunningBIRD because it has two heads, so it's automatically badass. BoomBIRD because it goes BOOM. EggBIRD because defog and brave. StarBIRD because it's a star.

But seriously, that does look like a good core. Doduo is fast and hits hard, especially with Brave Bird, which would definitely weaken walls that threaten Fletchling. One core that I've been using recently is Ponyta + Chespin + Water-type filler, because Ponyta provides Sunny Day support for Chespin's Synthesis. That means that one of the main problems with Chespin, Synthesis' low PP, is decreased because it won't have to use it as often. It also forms part of a FWG core with Ponyta, and can stack hazards to provide team support. I'd suggest you try it out, it's a really fun bulky offense kind of core that can live most all hard hits in the metagame.

ChesPony

Chespin @ Eviolite
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 108 Atk / 76 Def / 76 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Synthesis
- Roar
- Seed Bomb

Ponyta @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Def / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Sunny Day
- Flare Blitz

Also put water type here for taking hits

EDIT: Yeah, monotype cores are cool. I've been using planning to use Mantyke + Chinchou for LCRW, because they cover up each others weaknesses while still placing similar offensive pressure on the opposing team.

 

[Camden]

I have been loving single-typing cores. Not necessarily monotype teams entirely, but just the idea of taking 2, maybe even 3 Pokemon with the same typing and building around them to create something consistent. Yes, they can be a bit difficult to play if say, you decide to use a Dual/Tri Fighting-core, and you opponent has a team with nothing but Mienfoo/Timburr checks, but what it does is put a lot of pressure on the opponent to break up that core, especially if they have a weakness to it. I'm sure we've all seen Superpowerdude and his Dual-Water Offense, but Dual Flying with Fletch and another Flying-type work wonders. You can even do Ground Offense with Drilbur + Diglett (Or Cubone if you're realy frisky). What it comes down to is how you play it and prepare for common checks. You would like for the two Pokemon in the core to cover each other decently well, while having team support to also help be a backbone.

 

[Rowan]

Yeah common type cores are great. This isn't XY, but in BW, I ran 4 fighting-type, along with scarf magnemite and Natu, which allowed me to pivot into Flying-types and Poison-types like Foongus. Less effective in XY due to fairies and Fletchling, but it was actually a succesful team back in the day, maybe 2 Fighting-types or 3 at a push could work well in XY.

Tbh, I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of 3 Flying-types working together. It seems like an easy think to just say, lol that sucks, but Doduo, Fletchling, and Drifloon could work wonders in pressuring the opponent, as long as you provided the team with a way to remove rocks, and to keep on the offensive pressure with offensive pivots.

The thing with this sort of Hyper Offensive playstyle is choosing what to sack and when. Because you have 3 birds, it doesn't actually matter if one dies early, as long as it manages to weaken something in the process. You have to not be afraid of sacking your HO core, to ease the pressure from your pivots.

Vulpix+another fire type is cool
Double Bird is cool
Carvanha/Tirtouga/Corphish/Shellder/Binacle/Omanyte all work well in a pairing

I wonder what other types can make a succesful team like this...

Not sure about Ground, because Diglett doesn't really have enough attack to weaken threats or clean... Cubone+SD Drilbur seems interesting though.

 

[Heysup]

Similar to that, a few metagames ago is probably where (not exactly taking all of the credit for this, more like "i did it before it was cool"; blarajan can probably back me up) I got the idea to run a bunch of Pokemon that were great as long as Chinchou wasn't around....so I ran lots of mons like Archen, Fletchling, Magnemite, etc together with Diglett. Most people stuck Chinchou on as their Magnemite check or Fletchling check but not both.

It happens a lot with Fighting-types too (which was really noticeable in the Meditite metagame) and Dark-types (Pawniard + Vanha works i swear).

Tbh, I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of 3 Flying-types working together. It seems like an easy think to just say, lol that sucks, but Doduo, Fletchling, and Drifloon could work wonders in pressuring the opponent, as long as you provided the team with a way to remove rocks, and to keep on the offensive pressure with offensive pivots.

I have a team titled "3 birds 1 cup", Vullaby, Archen, Fletchling but Archen was SR/Defog because 3 flying-types need that shit.

 

[Pancham]

Similar to that, a few metagames ago is probably where (not exactly taking all of the credit for this, more like "i did it before it was cool"; blarajan can probably back me up) I got the idea to run a bunch of Pokemon that were great as long as Chinchou wasn't around....so I ran lots of mons like Archen, Fletchling, Magnemite, etc together with Diglett. Most people stuck Chinchou on as their Magnemite check or Fletchling check but not both.

It happens a lot with Fighting-types too (which was really noticeable in the Meditite metagame) and Dark-types (Pawniard + Vanha works i swear).

Double Dark-tyoe cores are amazing. I remember back in Krow meta I used Murkrow with Carvanha and Murkrow with Pawniard. Both were very successful, though this probably mostly due to Murkrow being so effective at what it does. I also just made a team that uses Carvanha with Pawniard, but I use a more defensive Pawniard.

 

[infamy]

I have been loving single-typing cores. Not necessarily monotype teams entirely, but just the idea of taking 2, maybe even 3 Pokemon with the same typing and building around them to create something consistent. Yes, they can be a bit difficult to play if say, you decide to use a Dual/Tri Fighting-core, and you opponent has a team with nothing but Mienfoo/Timburr checks, but what it does is put a lot of pressure on the opponent to break up that core, especially if they have a weakness to it. I'm sure we've all seen Superpowerdude and his Dual-Water Offense, but Dual Flying with Fletch and another Flying-type work wonders. You can even do Ground Offense with Drilbur + Diglett (Or Cubone if you're realy frisky). What it comes down to is how you play it and prepare for common checks. You would like for the two Pokemon in the core to cover each other decently well, while having team support to also help be a backbone.

Yeah common type cores are great. This isn't XY, but in BW, I ran 4 fighting-type, along with scarf magnemite and Natu, which allowed me to pivot into Flying-types and Poison-types like Foongus. Less effective in XY due to fairies and Fletchling, but it was actually a succesful team back in the day, maybe 2 Fighting-types or 3 at a push could work well in XY.

Tbh, I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of 3 Flying-types working together. It seems like an easy think to just say, lol that sucks, but Doduo, Fletchling, and Drifloon could work wonders in pressuring the opponent, as long as you provided the team with a way to remove rocks, and to keep on the offensive pressure with offensive pivots.

The thing with this sort of Hyper Offensive playstyle is choosing what to sack and when. Because you have 3 birds, it doesn't actually matter if one dies early, as long as it manages to weaken something in the process. You have to not be afraid of sacking your HO core, to ease the pressure from your pivots.

Vulpix+another fire type is cool
Double Bird is cool
Carvanha/Tirtouga/Corphish/Shellder/Binacle/Omanyte all work well in a pairing

I wonder what other types can make a succesful team like this...

Not sure about Ground, because Diglett doesn't really have enough attack to weaken threats or clean... Cubone+SD Drilbur seems interesting though.

Similar to that, a few metagames ago is probably where (not exactly taking all of the credit for this, more like "i did it before it was cool"; blarajan can probably back me up) I got the idea to run a bunch of Pokemon that were great as long as Chinchou wasn't around....so I ran lots of mons like Archen, Fletchling, Magnemite, etc together with Diglett. Most people stuck Chinchou on as their Magnemite check or Fletchling check but not both.

It happens a lot with Fighting-types too (which was really noticeable in the Meditite metagame) and Dark-types (Pawniard + Vanha works i swear).

Hi guys, I made a team with 3 Fighting types a few days ago and just RMTed it, so I figured that was kinda relevant and I'd like to have some feedback on it so I'm just going to link it here.

 

[PangoroHat]

i'd also suggest enjoying the oras changes first, oras metagame might last longer than xy so there would be enough time later to retest some mons to shake up the game imo

 

[boo836]

Carvanha/Tirtouga/Corphish/Shellder/Binacle/Omanyte all work well in a pairing

Didn't someone make that into a team?

 

[Rowan]

skrelp hype

Skrelp @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Icy Wind / Thunderbolt

this set is powerful as fuck. it reaches 12 speed, so it can outspeed 17 speeders and under after using icy wind on the switch in, which is useful for stuff like chinchou and vullaby. hydro+sludge wave just decimates everything, hp fire deals with ferro. the only walls are opposing croagunk, skrelp, tentacool and lol frillish, but it could even run tbolt for the latter 3.

idk about spread tbh, i don't think defenses are too important, and investing in speed is nice, cos you want to outspeed all the slow walls like porygon

 

[Heysup]

Personally, I found LO takes away one of the best aspects of Skrelp: its defensive typing. With Pancham hype (foo is still better but w/e it's cuter) and Croagunk becoming fairly popular I think it's important not to waste the Poison/Water typing as a possible fighting-type switch-in. It's bulky enough to take down Gastly, Pawniard, etc. that is, iff it isn't working against LO recoil combined with its low Speed.

It's plenty powerful already :). Obviously LO is not a waste and can hit things like Foongus and Chinchou harder, I'm just pointing out the sacrifices being made to do that.

 

[antemortem]

I don't think the sacrifices LO demands is too terrible of a tradeoff if Skrelp's designated role is to be an offensive fiend on the team it's on, because there's likely other things that balance out the defensive loss

 

[zeriloa]

hi

here's a fun pancham set ive been messing around with that seems like an amazing wallbreaker

Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker / Iron Fist
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 100 Def / 212 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot

bulky sd pancham is really, really strong, with great 23/14/14 bulk with this spread and power that lets it do things like:
+1 180+ Atk Mold Breaker Pancham Gunk Shot vs. 116 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Snubbull: 22-28 (91.6 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 180+ Atk Mold Breaker Pancham Gunk Shot vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 26-32 (96.2 - 118.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

mold breaker is of course always cool, though iron fist gets guaranteed ohko's on knocked off timburr and drilbur at +2 among other things. i haven't got to play with it too much, but it seems like it could be really good if paired with a heal bell user, as burns are a huge problem for it, and something that can take advantage of its wallbreaking capabilities. anyways, just a cool set i wanted to share.

 

[skies]

Clauncher @ Eviolite
Ability: Mega Launcher
Level: 5
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Def / 92 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Crabhammer
- U-turn
​

Just wanted to pop in and talk about Clauncher for a moment. While Clauncher didn't really gain much from the ORAS transition, it did gain Dragon Pulse. But that's besides the point. I've been testing a Swords Dance set with Swords Dance / Crabhammer / Aqua Jet / U-turn and I've been finding it to be quite neat! The basic premise of the set is to break things down with boosted Crabhammer and smack its checks with U-turn and pivot to a counter. With Eviolite, Clauncher hits a respectable 22 / 21 / 21 bulk and a solid typing, which is a perfect blend! With full investment, Clauncher hits 16 Attack, which is passable after a boost. Clauncher's a really neat Pokemon and it has a niche that I really enjoy; the only other relevant Swords Dance Water-type in the tier is Corphish, which has pretty bad bulk in comparison to Clauncher. It also lacks U-turn, which is another reason to use Clauncher. Certainly not a top tier threat, but it's an interesting Pokemon and I encourage you to test it out!

 

[Pancham]

Clauncher @ Eviolite
Ability: Mega Launcher
Level: 5
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Def / 92 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Crabhammer
- U-turn
​

Just wanted to pop in and talk about Clauncher for a moment. While Clauncher didn't really gain much from the ORAS transition, it did gain Dragon Pulse. But that's besides the point. I've been testing a Swords Dance set with Swords Dance / Crabhammer / Aqua Jet / U-turn and I've been finding it to be quite neat! The basic premise of the set is to break things down with boosted Crabhammer and smack its checks with U-turn and pivot to a counter. With Eviolite, Clauncher hits a respectable 22 / 21 / 21 bulk and a solid typing, which is a perfect blend! With full investment, Clauncher hits 16 Attack, which is passable after a boost. Clauncher's a really neat Pokemon and it has a niche that I really enjoy; the only other relevant Swords Dance Water-type in the tier is Corphish, which has pretty bad bulk in comparison to Clauncher. It also lacks U-turn, which is another reason to use Clauncher. Certainly not a top tier threat, but it's an interesting Pokemon and I encourage you to test it out!

Actually, I could see a pairing of this and Corphish used. Sounds like a decent offensive core that could do some serious damage, to me at least. Or even using Clauncher with a Shell Smasher could possibly work. It kind of fits in with the current discussion of double-typing cores that was held for the previous day which is neat, as well. :)

Now, let's go onto my own core I've been using lately. It is pretty much the standard Double Rush sand offense core, but I am enjoying it a lot.

Sets

Sandshrew @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Rush
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off

Drilbur @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Shadow Claw

Basically, I use Drilbur as the wallbreaker for Sandshrew, as Drilbur has more power and worse bulk. Sandshrew has the ability to live many priority attacks, which includes +2 Pawnaird Sucker Punch and +2 Fletchling Acrobatics, and then OHKO both of these with Earthquake and Rock Slide respectively. I pair this core with the obvious Hippopotas, but also another double-typing core of Pancham and Croagunk. Pancham gives set up opportunity to either Drilbur or Sandshrew, while Croagunk more easily checks things like other fighters and Pawniard. The last team slot is for Magnemite, and this is mostly due to my team lacking any special attacker, bar Croagunk which is mixed, and a good switch in for Spritzee and Fletchling.

 

[boo836]

I don't think the sacrifices LO demands is too terrible of a tradeoff if Skrelp's designated role is to be an offensive fiend on the team it's on, because there's likely other things that balance out the defensive loss

Not to mention it gets 19 hp abd pairs well with sticky web and other abusers

 

[Camden]

Not to mention it gets 19 hp and pairs well with sticky web and other abusers

Sorry, Pokemon with Base 50 HP and higher can't drop to 19 HP. It could still do a decent job as a wallbreaker though, especially on web teams. It could possibly find a place on TR teams as well seeing as how it can drop to 7 speed after a negative speed nature.

 

[Heysup]

Ok my turn to hype:

Amaura @ Choice Scarf
60 HP / 220 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest
- Hyper Voice
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power / Hyper Beam (#pewpew)
- Dark Pulse / Hyper Beam (#pewpew)

Gothita @ Choice Scarf / Eviolite
36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest / Timid
Psychic
Energy Ball
Dark Pulse / Thunderbolt / HP Fighting / w.e
Trick


Amaura got a recent boost in Earth Power (and Hyper Voice) meaning it's not completely dead weight against Magnemite, Chinchou, Pawniard, etc. However with a Choice Scarf it still lacks the power to get through Chinchou and has trouble with Croagunk and Timburr specifically due to their 4x priority, and sort of bulk Foo and Pancham but less so. While Diglett takes care of the Steel-types and Chinchou, it does not do a good job against the Fighting-types, which is where Gothita comes in. It can easily OHKO Croagunk and can deal with Timburr with some residual damage (ie. it switches into any Amaura attack) and Gothita can take a Mach Punch or Drain Punch and beat it with Psychic. Energy Ball suffices for trapping Chinchou, and HP Fighting can be used for Sucker Punch-less Pawniard but it's actually not usually worth the risk unless you trick it and somehow get it trapped using Sucker Punch / Iron Head (with enough HP to survive). I haven't exactly perfected the team they're on but I've been impressed with how quickly an Amaura without any resists can dismantle an opposing team without worrying about Fletchling revenge kills.

This core works well with U-turn/Volt-Switchers like Mienfoo and Magnemite (who can lure in Chinchou and nail it with HP Ground and then somewhat safely expect a Scald or HP Ground as you switch Gothita in).

 

[Shrug]

Amaura @ Choice Scarf
60 HP / 220 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest
- Hyper Voice
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power / Hyper Beam (#pewpew)
- Dark Pulse / Hyper Beam (#pewpew)

Gothita @ Choice Scarf / Eviolite
36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest / Timid
Psychic
Energy Ball
Dark Pulse / Thunderbolt / HP Fighting / w.e
Trick


Amaura got a recent boost in Earth Power (and Hyper Voice) meaning it's not completely dead weight against Magnemite, Chinchou, Pawniard, etc. However with a Choice Scarf it still lacks the power to get through Chinchou and has trouble with Croagunk and Timburr specifically due to their 4x priority, and sort of bulk Foo and Pancham but less so. While Diglett takes care of the Steel-types and Chinchou, it does not do a good job against the Fighting-types, which is where Gothita comes in. It can easily OHKO Croagunk and can deal with Timburr with some residual damage (ie. it switches into any Amaura attack) and Gothita can take a Mach Punch or Drain Punch and beat it with Psychic. Energy Ball suffices for trapping Chinchou, and HP Fighting can be used for Sucker Punch-less Pawniard but it's actually not usually worth the risk unless you trick it and somehow get it trapped using Sucker Punch / Iron Head (with enough HP to survive). I haven't exactly perfected the team they're on but I've been impressed with how quickly an Amaura without any resists can dismantle an opposing team without worrying about Fletchling revenge kills.

This core works well with U-turn/Volt-Switchers like Mienfoo and Magnemite (who can lure in Chinchou and nail it with HP Ground and then somewhat safely expect a Scald or HP Ground as you switch Gothita in).

Agreeing with this, Amaura is also an unfair nuke with webs up and a life orb boosting its attacks, hyper voice just gets kill after kill and the coverage moves are very very good

 

[boo836]

Sorry, Pokemon with Base 50 HP and higher can't drop to 19 HP. It could still do a decent job as a wallbreaker though, especially on web teams. It could possibly find a place on TR teams as well seeing as how it can drop to 7 speed after a negative speed nature.

Yeah, I need to stop posting so late at night. Mixed up its speed and hp.

 

[YOLIT1]

So outside of my Uber trials, I have decided to try out the flip side of the tier list: Little Cup. (obviously) I was looking through to see who all was here and decided to try out Budew. I saw that there were now sets for it for XY, and decided to make a couple myself. I have made two sets as of yet, both of which are actually quite similar. Info below:
Budew @ Berry Juice
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 112 Def / 196 SpA / 200 SpD
Modest Nature
- Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Shadow Ball
and
Budew @ Berry Juice
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 112 Def / 196 SpA / 200 SpD
Modest Nature
- Toxic
- Venoshock
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Rock]
For those who have no idea what this means, I shall explain.
For the first set, I'm running a bulky special sweeper. Running 196 Special attack EVs and 0/112/200 for the defensive EVs, this thing is made to take hits and give hits. A modest nature helps it to have as much oomph as possible, but another nature can be run if you want more bulk. For the moves, dual STABs are found in Energy Ball and Sludge Bomb. Hidden Power Rock smashes the flying and fire types who would otherwise give you a quite rough time, as well as giving significantly more coverage otherwise. Shadow Ball is used to take down opposing Psychic types and whatever else who comes through. On the flip-side, Spikes or Stun Spore can be run to switch Budew into a Spikes lead who sweaps or a status spreader who slaps enemies in their moment of weakness. Rest should not be run on this set, as Natural Cure takes out status and Berry Juice heals all at once
Second set is really kind of the same thing, but with a different basis for how you actually play the set. Toxic is used to be an absolute jerk to anything that is affects, and then of course Venoshock comes in to combine with poison damage to surprise the enemy and hopefully take them down. Energy Ball is used for STAB and coverage where Venoshock can fail, and Hidden Power Rock is there for aforementioned and obvious reasons. The same EV spread, ability, and item is used as before for the same reasons.
With that out of the way, the biggest help I could use here is knowing who checks these sets and who just plain counters them. I would expect Fletchling to give this some trouble with Gale Wings, and pretty much any steel type to simply wall this, but what else gives our little Budew trouble? This will allow us to decide what exactly needs a change. Also, team options for Doubles players would be much appreciated, as I don't delve into that realm much myself but I know that others do. (Onix maybe? Hmm...) Anyway, I'll leave you with this food for thought for now. Extra feeding as eating happens.
*Note: Was copied over from another thread I had created, I was told to post it here*

 

[gali]

Tagging QuoteCS since I know he's used Budew before

 

[The Avalanches]

So outside of my Uber trials, I have decided to try out the flip side of the tier list: Little Cup. (obviously) I was looking through to see who all was here and decided to try out Budew. I saw that there were now sets for it for XY, and decided to make a couple myself. I have made two sets as of yet, both of which are actually quite similar. Info below:
Budew @ Berry Juice
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 112 Def / 196 SpA / 200 SpD
Modest Nature
- Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Shadow Ball
and
Budew @ Berry Juice
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 112 Def / 196 SpA / 200 SpD
Modest Nature
- Toxic
- Venoshock
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Rock]
For those who have no idea what this means, I shall explain.
For the first set, I'm running a bulky special sweeper. Running 196 Special attack EVs and 0/112/200 for the defensive EVs, this thing is made to take hits and give hits. A modest nature helps it to have as much oomph as possible, but another nature can be run if you want more bulk. For the moves, dual STABs are found in Energy Ball and Sludge Bomb. Hidden Power Rock smashes the flying and fire types who would otherwise give you a quite rough time, as well as giving significantly more coverage otherwise. Shadow Ball is used to take down opposing Psychic types and whatever else who comes through. On the flip-side, Spikes or Stun Spore can be run to switch Budew into a Spikes lead who sweaps or a status spreader who slaps enemies in their moment of weakness. Rest should not be run on this set, as Natural Cure takes out status and Berry Juice heals all at once
Second set is really kind of the same thing, but with a different basis for how you actually play the set. Toxic is used to be an absolute jerk to anything that is affects, and then of course Venoshock comes in to combine with poison damage to surprise the enemy and hopefully take them down. Energy Ball is used for STAB and coverage where Venoshock can fail, and Hidden Power Rock is there for aforementioned and obvious reasons. The same EV spread, ability, and item is used as before for the same reasons.
With that out of the way, the biggest help I could use here is knowing who checks these sets and who just plain counters them. I would expect Fletchling to give this some trouble with Gale Wings, and pretty much any steel type to simply wall this, but what else gives our little Budew trouble? This will allow us to decide what exactly needs a change. Also, team options for Doubles players would be much appreciated, as I don't delve into that realm much myself but I know that others do. (Onix maybe? Hmm...) Anyway, I'll leave you with this food for thought for now. Extra feeding as eating happens.
*Note: Was copied over from another thread I had created, I was told to post it here*

Your sets are okay, but Budew itself is outclassed; Bellsprout under sun is considered a much more valuable asset to a team, while Pokemon like Foongus and Pumpkaboo make for bulkier Grass-types than Budew. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but Budew is rarely worth it, it simply isn't bulky or strong enough.

 

[Camden]

Tagging QuoteCS since I know he's used Budew before

You tagged me as I was writing up a reply. <3

So outside of my Uber trials, I have decided to try out the flip side of the tier list: Little Cup. (obviously) I was looking through to see who all was here and decided to try out Budew. I saw that there were now sets for it for XY, and decided to make a couple myself. I have made two sets as of yet, both of which are actually quite similar. Info below:
Budew @ Berry Juice
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 112 Def / 196 SpA / 200 SpD
Modest Nature
- Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Shadow Ball
and
Budew @ Berry Juice
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 112 Def / 196 SpA / 200 SpD
Modest Nature
- Toxic
- Venoshock
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Rock]
For those who have no idea what this means, I shall explain.
For the first set, I'm running a bulky special sweeper. Running 196 Special attack EVs and 0/112/200 for the defensive EVs, this thing is made to take hits and give hits. A modest nature helps it to have as much oomph as possible, but another nature can be run if you want more bulk. For the moves, dual STABs are found in Energy Ball and Sludge Bomb. Hidden Power Rock smashes the flying and fire types who would otherwise give you a quite rough time, as well as giving significantly more coverage otherwise. Shadow Ball is used to take down opposing Psychic types and whatever else who comes through. On the flip-side, Spikes or Stun Spore can be run to switch Budew into a Spikes lead who sweaps or a status spreader who slaps enemies in their moment of weakness. Rest should not be run on this set, as Natural Cure takes out status and Berry Juice heals all at once
Second set is really kind of the same thing, but with a different basis for how you actually play the set. Toxic is used to be an absolute jerk to anything that is affects, and then of course Venoshock comes in to combine with poison damage to surprise the enemy and hopefully take them down. Energy Ball is used for STAB and coverage where Venoshock can fail, and Hidden Power Rock is there for aforementioned and obvious reasons. The same EV spread, ability, and item is used as before for the same reasons.
With that out of the way, the biggest help I could use here is knowing who checks these sets and who just plain counters them. I would expect Fletchling to give this some trouble with Gale Wings, and pretty much any steel type to simply wall this, but what else gives our little Budew trouble? This will allow us to decide what exactly needs a change. Also, team options for Doubles players would be much appreciated, as I don't delve into that realm much myself but I know that others do. (Onix maybe? Hmm...) Anyway, I'll leave you with this food for thought for now. Extra feeding as eating happens.
*Note: Was copied over from another thread I had created, I was told to post it here*

Budew itself has some harsh limitations. Its stats are underwhelming, and it's generally outclassed by Foongus, Bellsprout, or Pumpkaboo depending on the job, but it does have a niche in Natural Cure, which allows it to heal fully with Rest. Besides that, you honestly shouldn't use it. This is probably its best set:


Budew @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 36 SpA / 196 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Leaf Storm / Giga Drain
- Spikes / Giga Drain / Hidden Power Fire
- Rest / Synthesis


You can't really invest more in Special Attack because then you sacrifice the bulk that you need to stay relevant. You have the option of investing your bulk into Defense instead of Special Defense, but then you have a harder time against Water-types, which is what Budew wants to handle. It's your choice though, but this is what I recommend.

 

[YOLIT1]

Ah well, I tried. Back to the drawing board.