Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread

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Assuming Beedrillite eventually gets released (it will be released if we get DPP remakes as Beedrill was available in those games), what are the chances of Mega Beedrill becoming a top tier OU threat?
 
Assuming Beedrillite eventually gets released (it will be released if we get DPP remakes as Beedrill was available in those games), what are the chances of Mega Beedrill becoming a top tier OU threat?
Not much, I guess. It might do better than it did in ORAS UU.
 
Not much, I guess. It might do better than it did in ORAS UU.
How wouldn't it be much? Fell Stinger buff really benefits the thing's already fucking ludicrous attack, and the speed on first turn of mega evolution buff means that it won't have to run Protect anymore.
 
Assuming Beedrillite eventually gets released (it will be released if we get DPP remakes as Beedrill was available in those games), what are the chances of Mega Beedrill becoming a top tier OU threat?
Fell stringer is goodish now(it's 50 power and is swords dance) and it starts off with the speed boost, having poison/ground is awesome tho lot of new treats weak to it that'll be steam rolled.

But I think it's insanely outclassed by our current u turn spam on account of how flexible they are even if mega drill hits harder and could set up with a kill phesom does it about the same.

Mega drill teamed with lele would be insanely hard for my team to handle because of knock off with drill run

Souly as a u turn abuser it's outclassed but it's coverage with lele might be broken, lele will get banned with/cause of him I feel
 
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You can easily set the basepower of the move yourself. Look the move up on say, Serebii.net and find out the basepower of the Z move. For example, I'm guessing Headsmash would be the move of choice for Rampardos to wall break. A quick look up: http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-sm/headsmash.shtml and we see that the Z-power is 200. Slap that in the calc and you can see how it fares against common OU walls.

252+ Atk Rampardos Continental Crush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 244-288 (73 - 86.2%)
Thank you! Appreciate it, I didn't realize I could set the power of the move manually.
 
How wouldn't it be much? Fell Stinger buff really benefits the thing's already fucking ludicrous attack, and the speed on first turn of mega evolution buff means that it won't have to run Protect anymore.
It doesn't have space in it's moveset for Fell Stinger, it barely had space for Protect and that was for neccesity. U-turn / Poison Jab / Knock Off / Drill Run should be good enough to carve itself a niche on VoltTurn teams that need a way to keep the Tapus away.
 
It doesn't have space in it's moveset for Fell Stinger, it barely had space for Protect and that was for neccesity. U-turn / Poison Jab / Knock Off / Drill Run should be good enough to carve itself a niche on VoltTurn teams that need a way to keep the Tapus away.
Like phesmo has poison jab, mega Beedrill only really offers coverage, fell stringer is an interesting option to become a sweeper and there's definitely merit

I forgot it is likly walled by steels without a ground weakness and rocky helmet garchomp.

But really I think it'll be decent I don't see it not being uu still to many other solid U-turners and megas right now

It gets pursuit so that might legit be metagame
 
The main reason I feel beedrill won't see much light of day in OU is because M-kazam exist, it instantly revenge kills beedrill no matter what. Beedrill will literally just be old beedrill but it doesn't have to run protect. Tbh, I enjoyed protect on beedrill cause it lets me scout what the opponent will do. This is especially useful against targets that are scarfed as you can gain even more momentum or flat out stay in to kill them, such as seeing scarf Lando-therian lock into u-turn then you have momentum advantage with your own u-turn. If you run knock off + drill run or fell stinger, you're taking a big guessing risk with what can and can't kill you.

He might be too strong for UU however, which would suck seeing him in BL.
 
You know, no matter how messed up OU may be, UU will likely suffer more, since right now, Dragonite, Gliscor, and some other guys must be like "Hey, we're no longer OU! Let's screw up the lower tiers!"
Anyway, I've been having some fun with Pelipper and Sash Greninja so far. The first is a bit like Rotom-W in that I can throw it in any not super-effective hit and expect it to survive. It will hurt Pelipper quite a bit, but still. Greninja, on the other hand, has became a great Check to a ton of stuff, thanks to Focus Sash, great natural speed tier, and Taunt.

The real reason MegaZam is OP is because Beast Boost is everywhere and Trace'ing that ability turns it into Pheremosa on steroids.
I've once made the mistake of letting a MegaZam Trace Surge Surfer. At that point, I pretty much lost the match, since he outsped everyone, in or out of terrain.
 
The problem with Lele is that generally the bulky Steels that check it lack reliable recovery (MegaZor loses to Specs) and so can be worn down, leaving holes which can be exploited by other sweepers. Everyone already knows to use M-Meta/Magearna/Celesteela against it to not get run over, but you can't count on them to be healthy against lategame sweepers when you account for hazards and chip damage. Lele's not the hardest mon to counter, but it's the one whose meta influence is most obvious.
 

SJCrew

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Just screamed the loudest "Fuck yeah!" at Landorus-I being banned. It really wasn't hard at all to get your opponent into a position where they just lose to Earth Power spam, as a lot of the top threats in the meta are now grounded, including one of our premier walls, Toxapex. I've even lost to a Scarf Lando-I before... Thank God that never caught on.

Though, tbh, I'm not sure if I considered that the biggest threat in the current meta. As an offense player, Pheromosa is growing more obnoxious by the day, and it's pretty close to unbeatable in certain circumstances. Granted, it does have a few really popular checks that it can only really U-turn out of, but I don't think that excuses it from outright gg-ing you when Toxapex or Mega Scizor dies.

This ban has restored some of my faith in tier leadership for sure. If we're getting rid of something that I didn't even think was the biggest threat at the time of its ban, there's no way we're going through months of U-turn spam and 'I still get STAB on everything motherfuckers'/'Specs BB Dark Pulse, gg' Greninja.

(PS: Fuck Genesect, get rid of it tomorrow, please.)
 

Xayah

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Can't say I disagree with the Lando-I ban at all, it was broken and needed to go.

However it did catch me off guard. I have been lurking on this thread since its creation and the two Pokemon I was expecting to be banned after reading through the comments I figured Pheromosa or even Tapu Lele would go next. However, once again, I understand the Lando ban
 
Lando is something I've always struggleD to switch around and it's rock Polish set smashes a lot of its would be counters : /

Glad we haven't gotten crazy with bans yet, I think its going at a healthy rate even if it's a super broken meta(don't think it is just yet)

Affects on metagame?

I expect this will hurt the steel flying pokemon cause they were likly one of the better switch ins and lando was the mon I feared most when using heatran, it could straight switch in avoiding an earth power or tank a lava plume and boost once/put up rocks. Dugtrio is rough but it can't switch in and threat the whole team as easily and a burn could save You
 
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Seems like the OU council wants to take their time with the new problem children (Phero, Lele) which is understandable since the other problem children who people want to get out of the tier had their suspect tests as well in the previous generations. Really, considering how restrictive and overpowered the old problem children are this gen I think it would have been wiser to keep them banned this gen as well until we have a good meta where we can retest things again. But that is all Captain Hindsight speaking and policy has to come first unless it's a necessity to do otherwise. I just hope the Lando ban will make the tier a bit more playable at least.
 
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PK Gaming

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Lando's ban is a pretty obvious case of "been there, done that."

It was broken for the same reason it was broken in gen VI, with little to abate its brokeness inGen VII. The new Pokemon are getting a fairer shake since it's their first time around the block, and i'm glad the council is taking a conservative approach with them too.
 
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UltiMario

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I really want to be surprised by this, but I can't be.

For those that want to argue against the Lando-I quickban, first consider this little thought:

Landorus gets stronger every generation. It does not need new moves, new items, or any other nice toys to deal with, yet it will still get stronger. Why? Because every generation brings in about 100 more Pokemon that can't beat Landorus.

I'd argue it's stronger now than it was in Gen 5. The amount of threats we have to prepare for is so much higher, and the amount of ways to combat those threats has increased too, yet among those huge lists, just a single Pokemon introduced or buffed within the last 2 generations can even remotely shut down Landorus, in Mega Latias. So much has changed in OU, yet for Landorus the only thing that's changed is the increased pool of Pokemon he beats. This is why Landorus is gone, and will never see an extended stay in OU again.
 
It's fair that they're letting the new mons get their chance before potentially banning/suspecting them (especially in the case of Lele where I think people are overreacting)...and Lando I was gonna get banned eventually it's just a strong as it has ever been. We'll see how things develop since there are still a couple obvious potential problems in the metagame at the moment.
 
Didn't Lando I got a perfect counter in Celestela?
I mean, maybe someone can explain something so uncommon getting the banhammer.
It tanks hp ice at +1 but I think that thing gets completely trashed if it's hit by knock off and they go into magetzone.

Non specs

252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Celesteela: 234-276 (58.7 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 81-96 (39.7 - 47%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not bad, but regardless landorous is a centralizing force with limited checks and counters

To add to this discussion, I still feel more balanced bulkier teams are going to struggle in this meta. Greninja and Hoopa-U are still great balance breakers. Offense will remain the dominant playstyle, but I am happy the council is making pretty quick decisions and explaining their reasoning.
 
so for those of you playing not using pokebank I have found that alomola and arcanine make a great defensive core between wish passing, intimedate, will-o-wisp, and morning sun. They also can completely check Phermosa and Kartana. Add scarfed ditto in to the mix along with magearna and Fini and you get a pretty good team overall. I've also been playing around with a focus sash smergal with spore, batton pass, nasty plot, and stealth rocks. might change nasty plot to calm mind or swords dance though. but I might take him out completely in favor of another sr setter though without pokebank choices are very limited because for some reason game freak thought it would be a good idea to take away that particular move along with knock off from the learnable movesets of older mons found in gen 7. I was thinking maybe using ryperior with lightning rod in place of smergal.
 
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