Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)

[Kingofthesun]

Metagame premise: First Blood

A 6v6 battle where whoever gets the first kill wins. Standard OU banlist and clauses apply.

Potential bans and threats:

This Metagame plays like a hybrid of OU and 1v1 -- games go quickly, and surprising techs can often pay off. Some sets unique to this meta:

Giga Diggersby

Diggersby @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Giga Impact
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- U-turn

Diggersby can try to end the game on the spot with Banded Giga Impact or U-turn out to maintain momentum.

Metal Burst Bisharp

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Metal Burst

This Bisharp can turn the tables at any point in the with Sash + Metal Burst. Further adding to the mindgames are Sucker Punch and Swords Dance. 50/50s everywhere...

Trap Keys

Klefki @ Eject Button
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fairy Lock
- Thunder Wave
- Light Screen
- Reflect

With Eject Button and Fairy Lock, Klefki can trap an enemy pokemon for one of your mons to KO on the next turn.

With switching and entry hazards available in this meta, no bans from 1v1 carry over into First Blood. This means that Focus Sash, Mimikyu, Perish Song, and more are all fair game.

I've played a lot of First Blood with friends without ever thinking to submit it as an OM, and it's really fun! From my testing, nothing seems to be overly broken just yet, but I will keep an eye out for the usual suspects of Dragapult, Porygon-Z, and Mimikyu.

EDIT: After further testing, Zeraora has been added to the watchlist.

Let me know what you think!

This meta already exists, and I believe it has the same name as well.

Move-Stat-Mons​

• A Pokemon's attacking moves have the BP and accuracy equal to that of the Pokemon's base stat that corresponds to the slot the move is in (Atk/Def/SpA/SpD).
• For example, if Zeraora put Blaze Kick in the first moveslot in the teambuilder, since Zeraora's base Atk is 112, Blaze Kick would have 112 BP and 112 Acc, as opposed to the normal 85/90.
• This does not affect the physical/special categorizations of moves, and the stats themselves work as normal.
• Could also force you to reconsider what moves you want to bring to battle. For example, a 'mon like Conkeldurr has to consider which moves it wants to get 140 BP/Acc and 95 BP/Acc (based on its Atk and Def), since its other two stats (SpA and SpD) are too low to put attacking moves on.
• I think it could be interesting because it can enable the usage of fun but weak moves like Fell Stinger, Astonish, moves that can't miss, and so on. Games may be short due to powercreep, but I'd imagine they'd be pretty eventful due to the viability of more novel move choices.
  • However, given that most Pokémon have one or two high stats (among the 4 that affect BP) and average or low other ones, it may turn into a game of outplaying the foe's support options when they only have one or two attacks to spam, which is interesting in its own right.
• Multi-hit moves would likely be banned (like imagine a 130BP Surging Strikes), but maybe evasion clause could be lifted given the likelihood of many moves with accuracy above 100%?
• Some hypothetical sets:
  • Fell Stinger Inteleon

    Inteleon @ Life Orb/Scope Lens
    Ability: Sniper
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Fell Stinger
    - Substitute
    - Aqua Jet
    - Focus Energy
  • Neo Bulky QD Volcarona

    Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
    Ability: Flame Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Quiver Dance
    - Roost
    - Mystical Fire/Struggle Bug
    - Giga Drain/Hurricane/Psychic
  • Body Press Avalugg

    Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Avalanche
    - Body Press
    - Recover
    - Toxic
  • Special Sweeper Mew

    Mew @ Life Orb
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psyshock
    - Frost Breath
    - Zap Cannon
    - Scorching Sands
  • Physical Dragapult

    Dragapult @ Life Orb
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Astonish
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Breaking Swipe
    - Dragon Dance

What are your thoughts on this?

I almost love this idea. The big looming flaw about it is that the stat in question dictates the move's accuracy, which just screws a ton of pokemon out of being good in the meta. I do very much like the idea of moves above 100% accuracy, but I also think that a move's minimum accuracy should be that of the base move. This change makes more moves more viable, and by proxy, the pokemon who can abuse them, so we get stuff like this:

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off

Play Rough would be weaker, but still maintain a 90% accuracy, everything else just becomes better.

Boltund @ Choice Scarf/Choice Band/Life Orb
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Fang
- Nuzzle
- Fire Fang
- Volt Switch

Thunder Fang and Fire Fang would be stronger, but maintain the 95% accuracy, nuzzle just becomes better, and Volt Switch takes a small 10 point reduction, but still achieves it's goal as a pivoting move.

If you elect not to still let the base stat alter accuracy, I think it will still be a fine meta, just not as good as it could be because I feel it would ultimately limit the number of viable pokemon.

but as far as other sets that will still work go:

Hatterene (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Mystical Fire
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power

Self-explanitory, it's the Calm Mind set strait off of smogon with stored power over Psyshock because that shit will scale like nothing else.

Machamp @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Rock Tomb

This was the set that made me wonder how much better the meta could be without the accuracy limitation. Without it, you could run the same set with Guts Flame Orb instead.

Toxapex @ Life Orb
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Recover
- Poison Jab
- Baneful Bunker/Toxic Spikes/Toxic
- Liquidation

This shit is goofy as hell, but it also seems like a ton of fun.

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast/Freeze-Dry
- Freeze-Dry/Focus Blast
- Dragon Breath
- Flash Cannon

Another Self-Explanitory set, Specs Kyurem but better.

Things to put on the watchlist:
- all priority attacks, Return'd allowed this and it quickly devolved into bp metagross and aqua jet azu bullshit, keep an eye on this
- stored power/power trip, if they work as I think they do, which is "base stat + 20 per boost", then it could spiral out of control very quickly, removing the one limiter that kept it in place
- hex and other power doubling moves

questions:
would pokemon that have their base stats change mid-battle have their move base power shift with it? and if so, would moves like power split/guard split effect the power of those moves?
could we potentially unban Cinderace, and maybe Galarian Darmanitan? I say only maybe to Darm bc it might just only need scarf/banded 140 power Gorrila Tactics boosted STAB Icicle Crash, even if it's pivot move would miss half the time.

EDIT: does the stat effect the accuracy of status moves used on the opponent?

 

[AIPS]

Move-Stat-Mons



A Pokemon's attacking moves have the BP and accuracy equal to that of the Pokemon's base stat that corresponds to the slot the move is in (Atk/Def/SpA/SpD).
For example, if Zeraora put Blaze Kick in the first moveslot in the teambuilder, since Zeraora's base Atk is 112, Blaze Kick would have 112 BP and 112 Acc, as opposed to the normal 85/90.
This does not affect the physical/special categorizations of moves, and the stats themselves work as normal.
Could also force you to reconsider what moves you want to bring to battle. For example, a 'mon like Conkeldurr has to consider which moves it wants to get 140 BP/Acc and 95 BP/Acc (based on its Atk and Def), since its other two stats (SpA and SpD) are too low to put attacking moves on.
I think it could be interesting because it can enable the usage of fun but weak moves like Fell Stinger, Astonish, moves that can't miss, and so on. Games may be short due to powercreep, but I'd imagine they'd be pretty eventful due to the viability of more novel move choices.
However, given that most Pokémon have one or two high stats (among the 4 that affect BP) and average or low other ones, it may turn into a game of outplaying the foe's support options when they only have one or two attacks to spam, which is interesting in its own right.
Multi-hit moves would likely be banned (like imagine a 130BP Surging Strikes), but maybe evasion clause could be lifted given the likelihood of many moves with accuracy above 100%?
Some hypothetical sets:

Fell Stinger Inteleon

Inteleon @ Life Orb/Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fell Stinger
- Substitute
- Aqua Jet
- Focus Energy

Neo Bulky QD Volcarona

Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Mystical Fire/Struggle Bug
- Giga Drain/Hurricane/Psychic

Body Press Avalugg

Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Avalanche
- Body Press
- Recover
- Toxic

Special Sweeper Mew

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Frost Breath
- Zap Cannon
- Scorching Sands

Physical Dragapult

Dragapult @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Astonish
- Will-O-Wisp
- Breaking Swipe
- Dragon Dance

What are your thoughts on this?

I think priority moves shouldn't be converted
Just think of a 130 BP bullet Punch from scizor, or a 140 BP Iron Fist boosted mach Punch from conk
Also multi-hit moves should not be affected

I also think that Draining Kiss should be looked at, because it heals 75% of dealt dmg.
Comfey @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Aromatherapy
- Draining Kiss

Imagine a 110BP +3 priority move that heals you back to full almost every time

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

I'm bad with names but here's my idea:

Unevolved Fusion

Metagame Premise: Not fully evolved pokemons gain half of their pre-evolutions' stats (Rounded down).

Here's an example.

70/20/50/20/50/40
50/20/40/20/40/20

Azurill's halved stats : 25/10/20/10/20/10
And those are added to Marill's which means Marill's final stats will be 95/30/70/30/70/50

Potential Bans and Threats
Standard OU banlist

Eviolite: My goal with this OM is to make a format where both OU and NFE pokemons are on about the same power level. Eviolite just gives NFE pokemons such a big buff that it would completely kill this goal and would make the defensive metagame entirely based on these NFE pokemons. Eviolite in OMs where NFE pokemons get better is also just unhealthy in general.

Porygon2: It seems too bulky or strong to be balanced. It has a base stat total very close to arceus' and that's just ridiculous. Here's a comparison between Porygon2 and Mewtwo
117/110/125/147/132/80 BST : 711
106/110/90/154/90/130 BST : 680

Light Ball: Pikachu now has 75 base attack doubled by light ball which is already pretty strong but 120 speed is really fast and can let it outspeed more pokemons instead of having to rely on fake-speed all the time. This could prove problematic so this should be watched out for.

Haunter and Kadabra: Both are fast and strong. The meta could be adapted to deal with those two but that speed and power is worrying.

Raboot: With higher stats than cinderace all around, raboot could be pretty strong since cinderace is already banned. Smaller movepool doesn't matter much since it has all the tools it needs either way.

Here's the list of stat changes if you want to check them out. It might not be perfect but everything should be there.

New NFE stats

Mr.Mime-Galar 60/77/87/125/135/130 = 614
Dusclops 50/90/175/85/175/37 = 612
Magneton 62/77/130/167/97/92 = 625
Linoone-Galar 97/85/81/65/81/130 = 539
Seadra 70/85/130/130/57/115 = 587
Doublade 81/150/200/62/67/49 = 609
Porygon2 117/110/125/147/132/80 = 711
Piloswine 125/125/100/75/75/75 = 575
Rhydon 145/172/167/60/60/52 = 656
Togetic 72/50/117/100/137/50 = 531
Chansey 255/7/7/42/137/65 = 513
Zweilous 98/117/95/87/95/77 = 569
Vibrava 72/120/72/72/72/75 = 483
Pupitar 95/116/95/87/95/71 = 559
Haunter 60/67/60/165/72/135 = 559
Kadabra 52/45/37/177/97/150 = 558
Hattrem 78/55/87/114/99/67 = 500
Thwackey 95/117/95/75/80/112 = 574
Whirlipede 55/77/128/55/98/75 = 488
Boldore 97/142/147/62/52/27 = 527
Brionne 85/96/96/124/109/70 = 580
Carkol 95/80/115/80/95/65 = 530
Charjabug 80/113/117/82/97/59 = 538
Charmeleon 77/90/79/110/90/112 = 558
Clefairy 95/57/62/82/92/42 = 430
Corvisquire 87/90/72/59/72/105 = 485
Cosmoem 64/43/146/43/146/55 = 497
Dartrix 112/102/102/95/95/73 = 579
Dottler 62/45/90/62/112/52 = 423
Drakloak 82/110/65/80/65/143 = 545
Drizzile 90/80/75/130/75/125 = 575
Duosion 87/55/70/177/85/40 = 514
Fletchinder 84/98/76/76/71/115 = 520
Fraxure 89/160/100/55/70/95 = 569
Gloom 82/90/97/122/107/55 = 553
Gothorita 82/60/95/102/117/77 = 533
Gurdurr 112/145/112/52/67/57 = 545
Hakamo-o 77/102/122/87/92/87 = 567
Herdier 87/110/87/47/87/87 = 505
Ivysaur 82/86/87/112/112/82 = 561
Jigglypuff 160/60/27/65/35/27 = 374
Kirlia 52/47/47/87/72/70 = 375
Klang 80/107/130/92/115/65 = 589
Krokorok 85/118/62/62/62/106 = 495
Lampent 85/55/87/127/87/65 = 506
Lombre 80/65/65/80/95/65 = 450
Loudred 116/96/54/96/54/62 = 478
Luxio 82/117/66/80/66/82 = 493
Machoke 115/140/95/67/77/62 = 556
Marill 95/30/70/30/70/50 = 345
Metapod 72/35/72/35/35/52 = 301
Morgrem 87/82/60/102/75/95 = 501
Nuzleaf 90/90/65/75/55/75 = 450
Palpitoad 100/90/75/90/75/101 = 531
Pikachu 45/75/47/67/67/120 = 421
Poliwhirl 85/90/85/70/70/135 = 535
Raboot 90/121/80/75/80/128 = 574
Roselia 70/75/62/125/115/92 = 539
Sliggoo 90/100/70/110/150/80 = 600
Steenee 73/55/67/55/67/78 = 395
Torracat 87/117/70/110/70/125 = 579
Tranquill 87/104/87/68/57/86 = 489
Vanillish 69/90/90/112/105/81 = 547
Wartortle 81/87/112/90/112/79 = 561

Questions for the community:
My biggest worry with this OM is that the pool of new viable pokemons would be a bit limited. I found 2 possible ways to fix this.

Option 1: Make NFE pokemons whose final base stat total is under a certain benchmark get an overall stat increase. (For example pokemons with under 500 BST would get +10 to all their stats)

Option 2: Make LC pokemons get stat boosts based on their own. This wouldn't matter for 3 stage lines since the second stage would always have higher stats than the first stage but this would let 2 stage lines get a boost. Pokemons like pawniard or mienfoo could make the OM more diverse.

Which option do you think is better?

 

[aaronarium]

This meta already exists, and I believe it has the same name as well.



I almost love this idea. The big looming flaw about it is that the stat in question dictates the move's accuracy, which just screws a ton of pokemon out of being good in the meta. I do very much like the idea of moves above 100% accuracy, but I also think that a move's minimum accuracy should be that of the base move. This change makes more moves more viable, and by proxy, the pokemon who can abuse them, so we get stuff like this:

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off

Play Rough would be weaker, but still maintain a 90% accuracy, everything else just becomes better.

Boltund @ Choice Scarf/Choice Band/Life Orb
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Fang
- Nuzzle
- Fire Fang
- Volt Switch

Thunder Fang and Fire Fang would be stronger, but maintain the 95% accuracy, nuzzle just becomes better, and Volt Switch takes a small 10 point reduction, but still achieves it's goal as a pivoting move.

If you elect not to still let the base stat alter accuracy, I think it will still be a fine meta, just not as good as it could be because I feel it would ultimately limit the number of viable pokemon.

but as far as other sets that will still work go:

Hatterene (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Mystical Fire
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power

Self-explanitory, it's the Calm Mind set strait off of smogon with stored power over Psyshock because that shit will scale like nothing else.

Machamp @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Rock Tomb

This was the set that made me wonder how much better the meta could be without the accuracy limitation. Without it, you could run the same set with Guts Flame Orb instead.

Toxapex @ Life Orb
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Recover
- Poison Jab
- Baneful Bunker/Toxic Spikes/Toxic
- Liquidation

This shit is goofy as hell, but it also seems like a ton of fun.

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast/Freeze-Dry
- Freeze-Dry/Focus Blast
- Dragon Breath
- Flash Cannon

Another Self-Explanitory set, Specs Kyurem but better.

Things to put on the watchlist:
- all priority attacks, Return'd allowed this and it quickly devolved into bp metagross and aqua jet azu bullshit, keep an eye on this
- stored power/power trip, if they work as I think they do, which is "base stat + 20 per boost", then it could spiral out of control very quickly, removing the one limiter that kept it in place
- hex and other power doubling moves

questions:
would pokemon that have their base stats change mid-battle have their move base power shift with it? and if so, would moves like power split/guard split effect the power of those moves?
could we potentially unban Cinderace, and maybe Galarian Darmanitan? I say only maybe to Darm bc it might just only need scarf/banded 140 power Gorrila Tactics boosted STAB Icicle Crash, even if it's pivot move would miss half the time.

EDIT: does the stat effect the accuracy of status moves used on the opponent?

Edited my post to include the answers to your questions, and made a proper watchlist and potential unbans. I think you make a good case regarding the accuracy issue, but I would like to get a little more feedback on it since I'm not super keen on making this a just-offensive-moves meta, and it seems a little inelegant or confusing to have the accuracy of moves have a minimum, but not the BP. Though OMs aren't exactly the image of intuitiveness so who knows, it might be fine haha.

 

[CoolMan6001]

Edited my post to include the answers to your questions, and made a proper watchlist and potential unbans. I think you make a good case regarding the accuracy issue, but I would like to get a little more feedback on it since I'm not super keen on making this a just-offensive-moves meta, and it seems a little inelegant or confusing to have the accuracy of moves have a minimum, but not the BP. Though OMs aren't exactly the image of intuitiveness so who knows, it might be fine haha.

Honestly, just get rid of the accuracy change. The meta will become a just-offensive moves meta wether accuracy changes or not. Lowering accuracy also has a good chance to detract from the meta.

Either way, the meta looks cool.

EDIT: Some Sets:

set ideas

Magnezone @ Expert Belt
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Def / 196 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Body Press
-Flash Cannon

252 Def Expert Belt Magnezone Body Press (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 187-221 (53.1 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Now it can trap and remove Ferrothorn. It also makes a heavy dent in Scizor:

196+ SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt (115 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 237-280 (68.8 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The 60 Speed EVs creep uninvested Corviknight.

Volcarona @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Roost
-Fiery Dance
-Giga Drain

Sure you loose a good portion of coverage, but you get a 135 BP Fire move with a chance to raise your Special Attack.

 

[Gliwick]

Edited my post to include the answers to your questions, and made a proper watchlist and potential unbans. I think you make a good case regarding the accuracy issue, but I would like to get a little more feedback on it since I'm not super keen on making this a just-offensive-moves meta, and it seems a little inelegant or confusing to have the accuracy of moves have a minimum, but not the BP. Though OMs aren't exactly the image of intuitiveness so who knows, it might be fine haha.

I have another idea for accuracy. Usually stronger moves have lower accuracy, not weaker ones. What if accuracy changes by formula:
Acc = old acc * (old bp / new bp)
This way the stronger the move is than the original, the less accurate it is. It also solves the priority moves issue - if their power is more than doubled, they become unviable

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I have another idea for accuracy. Usually stronger moves have lower accuracy, not weaker ones. What if accuracy changes by formula:
Acc = old acc * (old bp / new bp)
This way the stronger the move is than the original, the less accurate it is. It also solves the priority moves issue - if their power is more than doubled, they become unviable

Formulas don't usually go over too well.

These five Pokemon all have two things in common. They all have a stat of 55 or 60, and they all have Technician. This lets them circumvent the usual drawback of having a low stat and actually make it a strength.

 

[aaronarium]

I have another idea for accuracy. Usually stronger moves have lower accuracy, not weaker ones. What if accuracy changes by formula:
Acc = old acc * (old bp / new bp)
This way the stronger the move is than the original, the less accurate it is. It also solves the priority moves issue - if their power is more than doubled, they become unviable

The issue with this is that it disincentivises the use of weaker moves, which I feel is a major conceit of this concept. For example, Astonish coming off of a 100 Base Atk (and therefore 100 BP) would only have 30% accuracy. It also punishes Pokémon with good offensive stats. Like Alakazam could put Psyshock in the 135 SpA slot, but then it would only have 59% accuracy.

Since there's this much trepidation regarding the accuracy issue, I'll drop the accuracy modifier mechanic entirely. Moves with imperfect accuracy would usually be outclassed anyway (like who would use Draco Meteor when Dragon Breath could be just as powerful), and the ones that wouldn't be outclassed due to their accuracy usually have a good secondary effect, like Icy Wind.

As a side note, anyone have catchier name suggestions? "Move-Stat-Mons" is decent, but it's a little clunky and doesn't give the best idea of what the OM is about at a glance. Maybe something like "Statmoves"?

 

[Kingofthesun]

As a side note, anyone have catchier name suggestions? "Move-Stat-Mons" is decent, but it's a little clunky and doesn't give the best idea of what the OM is about at a glance. Maybe something like "Statmoves"?

Firstly as far as names go, I think that "Base Stat Power" works nicely. A play on words on both base power and base stat while conveying that the base stat dictates the power of moves.

On a much more critical note, I very much worry about the possibility of the meta coming into fruition due to a problem that I've noticed while theorymonning, Priority. I'm really not sure on how to start this, I've revised this post 4 times over now because I am very uncertain of how broken power boosted priority moves are.

Priority does have an absurd damage output when combined with good stats
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 315-372 (89.4 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 340-402 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 327-385 (80.9 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 282-333 (92.7 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Rillaboom and Conkeldurr are capable of similar feats with Bulk Up and Swords Dance respectively. However, this is pretty much where the list starts and ends. In this case Aegislash and maybe Rillaboom and Conkeldurr should be banned, but Scizor, Lucario, Hitmonchan, Weavile, Azumarill do have valid checks and counters between Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Hippowdon, Tangrowth, Mew, Corviknight, Mandibuzz, Tsareena, Psychic Terrain, etc. The problem lies in how the bulkier ones invalidate offense. Several of the priority attacks from the pokemon listed can ohko and all can 2hko offense mons like Darmanitan, Zeraora, Excadrill, Hawlucha, Alakazam, etc. and all these aren't even accommodating for hazards.

Another problem is the problem with a lot of broken things in pokemon, the 5 other teammates to help the broken thing operate at maximum capacity, which can also be the broken thing in question. This isn't something that can be theorymonned, it has to be tested in practice to see how the strategy of priority attacking can be optimized while the inevitable counter to said strategy is optimized in return. I think that priority should be allowed because they may not be as unaccountably broken as one might think.

But here's the much more important reason:

A very important decision that was made was to ban multi-hit moves not make them unaffected this is critical, because it allows the stat change rule to stay consistent across all moves, without adding a complex rule into the mix. Banning priority moves would ban almost all priority outside of Triage Comfey and Gale Wings Talonflame, leading to a meta dominated by whatever is the fastest and whatever can wall those fast mons. Priority is integral to speed control in pokemon as a game mechanic and there isn't a way to limit it without outright removing it other than making it unaffected, which breaks the consistency of the OM's rule.


On another note, moves that should be banned outright are power doubling moves for the exact same reason that multi-hit moves should be banned.

252+ Atk Guts Obstagoon Facade (202 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 195-229 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Dragapult Hex (240 BP) vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Mandibuzz: 178-210 (42 - 49.6%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

I don't think I need to go too in depth as to why multi-hit moves should be banned, but just in case:


252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Corviknight: 360-425 (90 - 106.2%) -- approx. 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Gale Wings Talonflame Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 228-270 (75 - 88.8%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Corviknight: 214-252 (53.5 - 63%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also, while to argument for Rocky Helmet chip into revenge killer is somewhat valid, Protective Pads is just as much of an item as Rocky Helmet. That and not only do some multi-hit moves not even make contact, but some pokemon who abuse multi-hit moves don't have to run Life Orb or a Choice item so they can actually afford the opportunity cost over something like heavy-duty boots in favor of a teammate that can remove hazards.


This might not be the most well-constructed argument, but it's late and I've probably run at least 100 calcs by now lol.

 

[aaronarium]

Firstly as far as names go, I think that "Base Stat Power" works nicely. A play on words on both base power and base stat while conveying that the base stat dictates the power of moves.

On a much more critical note, I very much worry about the possibility of the meta coming into fruition due to a problem that I've noticed while theorymonning, Priority. I'm really not sure on how to start this, I've revised this post 4 times over now because I am very uncertain of how broken power boosted priority moves are.

Priority does have an absurd damage output when combined with good stats
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 315-372 (89.4 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 340-402 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 327-385 (80.9 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 282-333 (92.7 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Rillaboom and Conkeldurr are capable of similar feats with Bulk Up and Swords Dance respectively. However, this is pretty much where the list starts and ends. In this case Aegislash and maybe Rillaboom and Conkeldurr should be banned, but Scizor, Lucario, Hitmonchan, Weavile, Azumarill do have valid checks and counters between Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Hippowdon, Tangrowth, Mew, Corviknight, Mandibuzz, Tsareena, Psychic Terrain, etc. The problem lies in how the bulkier ones invalidate offense. Several of the priority attacks from the pokemon listed can ohko and all can 2hko offense mons like Darmanitan, Zeraora, Excadrill, Hawlucha, Alakazam, etc. and all these aren't even accommodating for hazards.

Another problem is the problem with a lot of broken things in pokemon, the 5 other teammates to help the broken thing operate at maximum capacity, which can also be the broken thing in question. This isn't something that can be theorymonned, it has to be tested in practice to see how the strategy of priority attacking can be optimized while the inevitable counter to said strategy is optimized in return. I think that priority should be allowed because they may not be as unaccountably broken as one might think.

But here's the much more important reason:

A very important decision that was made was to ban multi-hit moves not make them unaffected this is critical, because it allows the stat change rule to stay consistent across all moves, without adding a complex rule into the mix. Banning priority moves would ban almost all priority outside of Triage Comfey and Gale Wings Talonflame, leading to a meta dominated by whatever is the fastest and whatever can wall those fast mons. Priority is integral to speed control in pokemon as a game mechanic and there isn't a way to limit it without outright removing it other than making it unaffected, which breaks the consistency of the OM's rule.


On another note, moves that should be banned outright are power doubling moves for the exact same reason that multi-hit moves should be banned.

252+ Atk Guts Obstagoon Facade (202 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 195-229 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Dragapult Hex (240 BP) vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Mandibuzz: 178-210 (42 - 49.6%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

I don't think I need to go too in depth as to why multi-hit moves should be banned, but just in case:


252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Corviknight: 360-425 (90 - 106.2%) -- approx. 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Gale Wings Talonflame Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 228-270 (75 - 88.8%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Corviknight: 214-252 (53.5 - 63%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also, while to argument for Rocky Helmet chip into revenge killer is somewhat valid, Protective Pads is just as much of an item as Rocky Helmet. That and not only do some multi-hit moves not even make contact, but some pokemon who abuse multi-hit moves don't have to run Life Orb or a Choice item so they can actually afford the opportunity cost over something like heavy-duty boots in favor of a teammate that can remove hazards.


This might not be the most well-constructed argument, but it's late and I've probably run at least 100 calcs by now lol.

First off, thank you for your amazingly detailed post! You are completely right about the issues that Priority and Multi-hit moves pose. I would be comfortable banning them, but regarding what you say about priority being a major element of speed control, my thoughts basically boil down to that the increased viability of moves like Icy Wind and Rock Tomb might be able to make up for the loss of that speed control method. Araquanid might also join Ribombee as a viable SW setter with its useful ability and SpD of 132. I want to keep this concept intuitive, so I am averse to exempting certain moves from the power increases, but this is something that I would have to playtest to get a real feel for.

I similarly agree with what you say about power doubling moves, though I think that some of these would have to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. Other OMs ban individual moves, so it wouldn't be outlandish, but I think that there's definitely some kind of gap in brokenness between stuff like Acrobatics/Facade/Knock Off and Avalanche/Weather Ball/Payback (not to say that they couldn't be broken, but their properties and how they power up means that, again, I think stuff like this should be playtested).

 

[Tungdil]

There is literally nothing that competitively separates a legendary Pokemon from a non-legendary Pokemon. The only difference is that Game Freak put a little label on it that says "legendary". National Dex is a blasphemous chimera of a ruleset and should not be considered for anything, and Dynamax was banned because it's broken as shit and even thinking of unbanning it is absurd.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this isn't the first time, and probably won't be the last time, that this idea has been submitted. It has been shot down every time with the argument along the lines of "Metagames that limit what players are able to do are usually less successful than metagames that give players more options". That, and it is way too similar to OU, especially this gen, and even though it's natdex, the problem is that it is just OU with a bunch of arbitrary bans on specific pokemon by proxy of them being a legendary, even if they aren't good.

The prospect of banning/restricting certain pokemon in OU won't lead to an interesting OM, it will just lead to OU, but different, much like Gen 8 with the dex cut. The goal of an OM is to make you rethink how the game operates on a fundamental level and have a metagame emerge from there.

First things first, thank you very much for your answers. Your answers are constructive and helpful. I've tried to keep a very short and concise description in my first message, but now I will try to give some more details to elaborate my initial idea.

As I said earlier, I've seen many users building teams on Smogon without mythical/legendaries (my-le, hereinafter). Of course, my proposal is not the first, and I was very aware when I wrote it before. The reason I've written and I'm still writing is to motivate and encourage those who share this view. My whole point is that it could be very fun for some players, maybe if it is not in a strict competitive way. For example: in some competitions, people can't use my-le, and in some places for casual plays people don't like my-le either. That being said, I'm not questioning the usual Smogon tiers at all, because I appreciate and respect them, and I follow the news and the forums for about 5 years already.

I agree that for this generation this proposal is not very useful, because there are few my-le in OU, as follows:

However, if we look at the previous generations this pattern does not hold (e.g., I counted around 18 OU my-le in the VII-generation). Ok, one could argue that this type of proposal limits the options, but it is not necessarily true. One of my questions for the community was how the roles would be fitted without the my-le, and the answer could be that some outclassed or unviable pokemon could have their place in the sun.

The great majority of the readers are much more experienced than me, but for the sake of clarity, please read these articles for VI-generation:
Smogon: Don't Use That, Use This: AG
Smogon: Don't Use That, Use This: Outclassed Pokémon in OU
As you can see, people recommended Deoxys instead of Greninja, Shaymin instead of Togekiss, Ho-oh instead of Talonflame, Victini instead of Darmanitan, Landorus instead of Nidoking, and so on. That is the reason why, with all due respect, I don't think the statement "you are restricting the options too much" is completely true, and on the contrary, we could stimulate the creativity of players.

Therefore, I would like to ask the users who are reading this thread to consider this type of proposal, if not for this generation maybe in the future. As many players would love that, I don't really understand the strong opposition. I think keeping this meta would be nice for the community, as many people want it, furthermore, I think a lot of players would like to get involved in the discussions and tests. Thank you for the opportunity to express my views. :)

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I thought of reviving a meta that existed in ORAS and USUM, but with an added twist.

Gods and Followers

Welcome to Gods and Followers. In this metagame, you will choose a god from the Ubers tier (or something from OU or lower if you want) to be your god. This god will be the first Pokemon in your party. Everything else on your team must share a type with your god. Example: if Dialga was your god, you could have both Garchomp and Ferrothorn on your team. As a reward for their loyalty, each of the followers on your team is allowed to use 1 move from your god's movepool that they couldn't normally learn. However, if your god faints, as punishment for not protecting their god, your team will be under the effects of Embargo, preventing them from using their held items.

Banlist and Clauses

OU Clauses and banlists (Dracovish and friends would count as your god)
Smeargle cannot be your god

Possible bans
Geomancy on anything but Xerneas
Shell Smash on anything that doesn't learn it naturally
Fishious Rend on anything that doesn't learn it naturally


Q&A

Do I have to lead with my god?

No, you can lead with whatever you like.

Why did you decide to give the followers a move from the god's movepool?

I thought it would spice up the metagame somewhat, and give space to gods that might get overlooked. For example, Mewtwo only gives you Psychic types compared to the likes of Necrozma-DM and Lunala, but it has an absolutely amazing movepool that lots of Pokemon would be happy to dip into.

Why Embargo?

In ORAS Gods and Followers had your team fall under the Cursed effect, which made it virtually impossible to win if your god went down, meaning you'd almost never actually use your god. Embargo is still a strong punishment, especially now that Z crystals and mega stones are gone.

If people would be interested in playing this, I would wait until the Crown Tundra DLC came out to submit it, as that would give us lots more gods to use.

 

[kakaks]

I thought of reviving a meta that existed in ORAS and USUM, but with an added twist.

Gods and Followers

Welcome to Gods and Followers. In this metagame, you will choose a god from the Ubers tier (or something from OU or lower if you want) to be your god. Everything else on your team must share a type with your god. Example: if Dialga was your god, you could have both Garchomp and Ferrothorn on your team. As a reward for their loyalty, each of the followers on your team is allowed to use 1 move from your god's movepool that they couldn't normally learn. However, if your god faints, as punishment for not protecting their god, your team will be under the effects of Embargo, preventing them from using their held items.

Banlist and Clauses

OU Clauses and banlists (Dracovish and friends would count as your god)
Smeargle cannot be your god
Power Herb might be banned
Mew might be banned from the god spot

Q&A

Why did you decide to give the followers a move from the god's movepool?

I thought it would spice up the metagame somewhat, and give space to gods that might get overlooked. For example, Mewtwo only gives you Psychic types compared to the likes of Necrozma-DM and Lunala, but it has an absolutely amazing movepool that lots of Pokemon would be happy to dip into.

Why are you considering banning Power Herb instead of Geomancy?

Because without a Power Herb, Geomancy is much riskier to use. Also, I kept Geomancy as it gives Xerneas a clear niche over Zacian as a Fairy god. If it turns out to be broken, Geomancy will be banned and Power Herb will be unbanned.

Why Embargo?

In ORAS Gods and Followers had your team fall under the Cursed effect, which made it virtually impossible to win if your god went down, meaning you'd almost never actually use your god. Embargo is still a strong punishment, especially now that Z crystals and mega stones are gone.

If people would be interested in playing this, I would wait until the Crown Tundra DLC came out to submit it, as that would give us lots more gods to use.

how the teambuilder knows what mon are you using as a god?

 

[DuDono]

I guess it's like in godly gift: the uber or the first slot if no uber

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

how the teambuilder knows what mon are you using as a god?

It's the first Pokemon in your party. Have edited.

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

I thought of reviving a meta that existed in ORAS and USUM, but with an added twist.

Gods and Followers

Welcome to Gods and Followers. In this metagame, you will choose a god from the Ubers tier (or something from OU or lower if you want) to be your god. This god will be the first Pokemon in your party. Everything else on your team must share a type with your god. Example: if Dialga was your god, you could have both Garchomp and Ferrothorn on your team. As a reward for their loyalty, each of the followers on your team is allowed to use 1 move from your god's movepool that they couldn't normally learn. However, if your god faints, as punishment for not protecting their god, your team will be under the effects of Embargo, preventing them from using their held items.

Banlist and Clauses

OU Clauses and banlists (Dracovish and friends would count as your god)
Smeargle cannot be your god

Possible bans
Power Herb
Smeargle from god spot
Shell Smash on non native users

Q&A

Do I have to lead with my god?

No, you can lead with whatever you like.

Why did you decide to give the followers a move from the god's movepool?

I thought it would spice up the metagame somewhat, and give space to gods that might get overlooked. For example, Mewtwo only gives you Psychic types compared to the likes of Necrozma-DM and Lunala, but it has an absolutely amazing movepool that lots of Pokemon would be happy to dip into.

Why are you considering banning Power Herb instead of Geomancy?

Because without a Power Herb, Geomancy is much riskier to use. Also, I kept Geomancy as it gives Xerneas a clear niche over Zacian as a Fairy god. If it turns out to be broken, Geomancy will be banned and Power Herb will be unbanned.

Why Embargo?

In ORAS Gods and Followers had your team fall under the Cursed effect, which made it virtually impossible to win if your god went down, meaning you'd almost never actually use your god. Embargo is still a strong punishment, especially now that Z crystals and mega stones are gone.

If people would be interested in playing this, I would wait until the Crown Tundra DLC came out to submit it, as that would give us lots more gods to use.

Gods and followers seems like a fun concept. There do seem to be a couple things that would be problematic

-Dracovish as a god gives water and dragon which are 2 great types along with giving fishious rend to everything. I know it seems like a niche for it but fishious rend and bolt beak are seriously broken moves and I'd rather see dracovish being useless than seeing it spam fishious rend over everybody's grave. Not to mention it can also donate it to pokemons with the coverage to beat water absorbers and water absorbers are already pretty much limited to a water type god.

-A limited amount of gods means there would only be a few viable gods and the rest would be forgotten just like in godly gift. Zacian-Crowned would thrive due to giving 2 of the best types in the game along with the strongest possible STABs for both, good coverage and set up moves. I agree with waiting until DLC 2 to have some new gods to pick from.

-Power Herb ban especially when Xerneas isn't even in the game yet is a bit stupid. Geomancy is clearly the problem here, not power herb. This is a ban that hurts other moves like meteor beam while it's clearly aimed at Xerneas and geomancy. A ban should not hurt other moves.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Gods and followers seems like a fun concept. There do seem to be a couple things that would be problematic

-Dracovish as a god gives water and dragon which are 2 great types along with giving fishious rend to everything. I know it seems like a niche for it but fishious rend and bolt beak are seriously broken moves and I'd rather see dracovish being useless than seeing it spam fishious rend over everybody's grave. Not to mention it can also donate it to pokemons with the coverage to beat water absorbers and water absorbers are already pretty much limited to a water type god.

-A limited amount of gods means there would only be a few viable gods and the rest would be forgotten just like in godly gift. Zacian-Crowned would thrive due to giving 2 of the best types in the game along with the strongest possible STABs for both, good coverage and set up moves. I agree with waiting until DLC 2 to have some new gods to pick from.

-Power Herb ban especially when Xerneas isn't even in the game yet is a bit stupid. Geomancy is clearly the problem here, not power herb. This is a ban that hurts other moves like meteor beam while it's clearly aimed at Xerneas and geomancy. A ban should not hurt other moves.

As a god, all Dracovish offers is Fishious Rend. That move is great, but once DLC 2 comes out it’ll have to compete with Kyogre and Palkia, who offer way better stats and more than 1 good move to donate. What’s more, there will be a lot of Dragon gods to choose from, so Water resists won’t be hard to come by.

Zacian always starts in its Hero of Many Battles forme, so it only gives you Fairy type teammates. Same story with Zamazenta. Can other Pokemon even use Behemoth Blade?

On closer reflection, I think banning Geomancy on everything but Xerneas would be the best idea, although I’d still like to give it a trial run first.

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

As a god, all Dracovish offers is Fishious Rend. That move is great, but once DLC 2 comes out it’ll have to compete with Kyogre and Palkia, who offer way better stats and more than 1 good move to donate. What’s more, there will be a lot of Dragon gods to choose from, so Water resists won’t be hard to come by.

Zacian always starts in its Hero of Many Battles forme, so it only gives you Fairy type teammates. Same story with Zamazenta. Can other Pokemon even use Behemoth Blade?

On closer reflection, I think banning Geomancy on everything but Xerneas would be the best idea, although I’d still like to give it a trial run first.

Fishious rend is a broken move so it may be worth it. Also, dracovish gives dragon type as well to smack other dragons. And when toxapex takes 46% from a dracovish fishious rend, I doubt any dragon but kommo-o can survive 2. A god's stats don't matter that much if they have good type and movepool. Dracovish still gives some nice biting moves, earth power and other decent moves.

I'm assuming different arceus forms gave their respective type so Zacian-Crowned would still give steel type. The crowned and hero form are treated as different pokemons so that's how I see it.

 

[kakaks]

I'm assuming different arceus forms gave their respective type so Zacian-Crowned would still give steel type. The crowned and hero form are treated as different pokemons so that's how I see it.

if this takes the gods mechanics from godly gift, then there cant be an zacian donating the steel type.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Fishious rend is a broken move so it may be worth it. Also, dracovish gives dragon type as well to smack other dragons. And when toxapex takes 46% from a dracovish fishious rend, I doubt any dragon but kommo-o can survive 2. A god's stats don't matter that much if they have good type and movepool. Dracovish still gives some nice biting moves, earth power and other decent moves.

I'm assuming different arceus forms gave their respective type so Zacian-Crowned would still give steel type. The crowned and hero form are treated as different pokemons so that's how I see it.

If Arceus comes back, it will be able to donate any 1 type because it can change outside battle. Zacian cannot become it’s Crowned forme outside battle. As with metas like STABmons, it’s the type(s) the Pokemon has outside of battle.

 

[kakaks]

If Arceus comes back, it will be able to donate any 1 type because it can change outside battle. Zacian cannot become it’s Crowned forme outside battle. As with metas like STABmons, it’s the type(s) the Pokemon has outside of battle.

arceus is not coming back. if the ioa leaks were right, the crown tundra ones are probably right

 

[Siglut]

Hello all
I'm not the world's biggest OM player but I've got an idea that I think might be good (or, at least, simple). Essentially, I would like to create a metagame that reverses the power creep that has been happening throughout Pokemon's history.

Premise: Mons are given stat buffs across the board corresponding to the generation in which they were introduced. Something like +5*(8-gen introduced)

Potential bans and threats:
-Chansey/Blissey: stats should cap at 255 like they normally do in this type of OM, so that's what their HP will be. However, bumping their defense stats up to 40 each likely pushes their bulk over the edge.
252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 392-464 (54.9 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is with Chansey boosted up to 255/40 HP/Def and Hera boosted to 155 Atk. While it does 2hko, this would essentially be one of the strongest attacks against it in the tier that's not boosted or banded, and 55 to 65 % is ridiculously low for a STAB SE move on the weaker defensive stat.
Just for shits and giggles:
+6 252 SpA Keldeo Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 560-662 (78.4 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (144 Spatk keld)
special attacks will never break this thing. I think it would be certainly banworthy, and probably blissey would be as well.

-Mew: almost certainly banworthy. Base 135 across the board alongside the most versatile moveset bar smeargle means that mew is likely both impossible to wall and impossible to break, along with the ability to set and remove hazards.

-Tyranitar: Although unfortunately not OU for the first time in its venerable career, giving it +30 to all stats ought to make up for that. 130/140/130 bulk is insane, especially given the sand boost, and its 164 base attack (and 125 Spatk) is also enormous. Probably not banworthy due to its lack of reliable recovery and mediocre defensive typing, but it is almost certain to be a major offensive and defensive threat.

-Other mons of interest:
Starmie: Versatile, can run offensive/defensive/support sets
Alakazam and Gengar: Stronger, faster versions of old selves
Heracross, Machamp, and Conkeldurr: These guys hit ridiculously hard, with machamp sharing the highest Atk stat (165) with Kingler, Flareon, and Rhydon. All three of these fighting types also have guts, so their close combats will put a serious dent in just about everything in the tier.
Weezing: Even Toxapex goes down to CC+EQ from burned guts Heracross, but Weezing has been a thorn in that mon's side since advance and should continue to be so in this metagame.
Scizor: Insanely strong and bulky
Azumarill: Base 80 with huge power is disgusting and might honestly be broken
Skarmory: 100/170/100 defenses, spikes, reliable recovery, what more can you want in a defensive mon
Arcanine: Bulky, can run a mixed set in theory but might not be strong enough to keep up with the now very bulky walls of the tier
Pixies: While Celebi and Jirachi would not be as good as mew, they might be overbearing with stats that outclass Arceus.
Sun/Rain abusers (Torkoal+Venu, Pelipper+Kingdra)
and, probably, many more

Questions for the community:
Is it too much to add 5 points per gen?
This might make the metagame too focused on gen 1 and 2 mons. However, I honestly would like it if it is focused on gen 1 and 2 mons. The point of this question is more on whether the power level of the metagame would be too high, and perhaps 3 points per gen is more reasonable. Another solution could be to add 5 points per gen and then ban pokemon that are extremely good, although I do not personally like this approach.

How to handle eviolite?
As discussed above, chansey with eviolite would likely be broken. However, Porygon2's newfound 115/120/125 defenses and access to recover might be too good. It can live any hit from the aforementioned powerful fighting types, but not comfortably. Another potential mon of concern would be Tangela, with its 100/130/75 defenses, that can switch in on just about any physical hit (that isn't coming from heracross, of course). I think at this preliminary stage that eviolite is completely fine, and might help prevent the tier from becoming too offense-oriented.

How to handle regional variants?
I personally think that regional variants would be counted with their respective region (alolan marowak is gen 7, galarian weezing is gen 8) rather than the region of their base form. This is because the regional variants are generally much more powerful than their original counterparts, and could be seen as a buffed version thereof already. I am definitely open to changing my stance on this, however.

Naming?
I'm thinking Creepmons or Creptmons or something similar to Tier Shift (because they're obviously very similar in concept).

Thank y'all for reading this. I can think up some spreads tomorrow if there's any interest, but I'm going to sleep now.

 

[AIPS]

Hello all
I'm not the world's biggest OM player but I've got an idea that I think might be good (or, at least, simple). Essentially, I would like to create a metagame that reverses the power creep that has been happening throughout Pokemon's history.

Premise: Mons are given stat buffs across the board corresponding to the generation in which they were introduced. Something like +5*(8-gen introduced)

Potential bans and threats:
-Chansey/Blissey: stats should cap at 255 like they normally do in this type of OM, so that's what their HP will be. However, bumping their defense stats up to 40 each likely pushes their bulk over the edge.
252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 392-464 (54.9 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is with Chansey boosted up to 255/40 HP/Def and Hera boosted to 155 Atk. While it does 2hko, this would essentially be one of the strongest attacks against it in the tier that's not boosted or banded, and 55 to 65 % is ridiculously low for a STAB SE move on the weaker defensive stat.
Just for shits and giggles:
+6 252 SpA Keldeo Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 560-662 (78.4 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (144 Spatk keld)
special attacks will never break this thing. I think it would be certainly banworthy, and probably blissey would be as well.

-Mew: almost certainly banworthy. Base 135 across the board alongside the most versatile moveset bar smeargle means that mew is likely both impossible to wall and impossible to break, along with the ability to set and remove hazards.

-Tyranitar: Although unfortunately not OU for the first time in its venerable career, giving it +30 to all stats ought to make up for that. 130/140/130 bulk is insane, especially given the sand boost, and its 164 base attack (and 125 Spatk) is also enormous. Probably not banworthy due to its lack of reliable recovery and mediocre defensive typing, but it is almost certain to be a major offensive and defensive threat.

-Other mons of interest:
Starmie: Versatile, can run offensive/defensive/support sets
Alakazam and Gengar: Stronger, faster versions of old selves
Heracross, Machamp, and Conkeldurr: These guys hit ridiculously hard, with machamp sharing the highest Atk stat (165) with Kingler, Flareon, and Rhydon. All three of these fighting types also have guts, so their close combats will put a serious dent in just about everything in the tier.
Weezing: Even Toxapex goes down to CC+EQ from burned guts Heracross, but Weezing has been a thorn in that mon's side since advance and should continue to be so in this metagame.
Scizor: Insanely strong and bulky
Azumarill: Base 80 with huge power is disgusting and might honestly be broken
Skarmory: 100/170/100 defenses, spikes, reliable recovery, what more can you want in a defensive mon
Arcanine: Bulky, can run a mixed set in theory but might not be strong enough to keep up with the now very bulky walls of the tier
Pixies: While Celebi and Jirachi would not be as good as mew, they might be overbearing with stats that outclass Arceus.
Sun/Rain abusers (Torkoal+Venu, Pelipper+Kingdra)
and, probably, many more

Questions for the community:
Is it too much to add 5 points per gen?
This might make the metagame too focused on gen 1 and 2 mons. However, I honestly would like it if it is focused on gen 1 and 2 mons. The point of this question is more on whether the power level of the metagame would be too high, and perhaps 3 points per gen is more reasonable. Another solution could be to add 5 points per gen and then ban pokemon that are extremely good, although I do not personally like this approach.

How to handle eviolite?
As discussed above, chansey with eviolite would likely be broken. However, Porygon2's newfound 115/120/125 defenses and access to recover might be too good. It can live any hit from the aforementioned powerful fighting types, but not comfortably. Another potential mon of concern would be Tangela, with its 100/130/75 defenses, that can switch in on just about any physical hit (that isn't coming from heracross, of course). I think at this preliminary stage that eviolite is completely fine, and might help prevent the tier from becoming too offense-oriented.

How to handle regional variants?
I personally think that regional variants would be counted with their respective region (alolan marowak is gen 7, galarian weezing is gen 8) rather than the region of their base form. This is because the regional variants are generally much more powerful than their original counterparts, and could be seen as a buffed version thereof already. I am definitely open to changing my stance on this, however.

Naming?
I'm thinking Creepmons or Creptmons or something similar to Tier Shift (because they're obviously very similar in concept).

Thank y'all for reading this. I can think up some spreads tomorrow if there's any interest, but I'm going to sleep now.

More like Genoner's dream

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Physical-Special Swap



Metagame Premise: Physical moves become special and special moves become physical. For example, Close combat would act as a special move and flamethrower would act as a physical moves. This doesn't change anything else about the move. Psyshock and secret sword usually target the defense stat. They still do but using the user's physical attack, basically like any other physical moves.

Potential Bans or Threats: Draco Meteor, Superpower, Leaf Storm, Overheat and other similar moves I forgot. These moves are very powerful but have the drawback to reduce the user's offensive stat to make them less spammable. Superpower reduced physical attack and was physical and the other moves reduced special attack and were special. However, these moves now reduce the other offensive stat which means they never get weaker and they can be spammed as much as you want.

Physical Hurricanes, hydro pumps, ice beams, thunderbolts or fire blast means it finally gets a flying stab and far better coverage. A lot of strong tools that could make it a better dragon dancer.

Special superpower/close combats and special flip turn is really good. Sure your water moves are weaker but you also get special aqua jet and megahorn for coverage. Keldeo would make for a very good pivot.

Questions for the community:
I feel the name Physical-Special Swap is too long. I could go with Phys-Spec Swap but does anyone have a better idea?

 

[okispokis]

Potential Bans or Threats: Draco Meteor, Superpower, Leaf Storm, Overheat and other similar moves I forgot. These moves are very powerful but have the drawback to reduce the user's offensive stat to make them less spammable. Superpower reduced physical attack and was physical and the other moves reduced special attack and were special. However, these moves now reduce the other offensive stat which means they never get weaker and they can be spammed as much as you want.
Questions for the community:
I feel the name Physical-Special Swap is too long. I could go with Phys-Spec Swap but does anyone have a better idea?

Not sure if it’s possible, but maybe those moves like Superpower or Leaf Storm could somehow get changed so they do effect the new attacking stat? I mean, it’s going to take a bit more coding to implement this change anyways, so might as well. Still, really fun idea for an OM, honestly one of the best I’ve heard on this thread.

As for the name, maybe “Flip-Flopped” or “Spectrum Swap”? I’m not really good at names for stuff like this.