All OMs are based in the current generation mainline games, which means Sword and Shield. The lone exception is Pure Hackmons due to extraordinary circumstances; an OM based in NatDex is a non-starter.
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Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)
- Thread starter drampa's grandpa
- Start date
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So where would i put my suggestions at?
^ National Dex is a pet mod, so maybe there?
Rough idea, not completely sure this has been submitted before but couldn't find it when skimming the lists:
Jirachimons (intentionally bad name, ideas open lol)
Premise: Every move in the 1st slot on a Pokemon now gains the effect of Future Sight and Doom Desire. There's a few ways to use this. You could potentially psuedo-Baton Pass, by using a setup move like Swords Dance or Shift Gear, then switching into another Pokemon. Attacking moves can also be used so that you could effectively use two powerful attacks in one turn, making it harder for walls to heal off the damage. On the other hand, these walls could also use Recover or delayed Haze or even Teleport, allowing them to manuever around offensive strategies.
Big question: how should this work for moves such as Cosmic Power, Slack Off, Power-Up Punch, and more? To my knowledge, Future Sight and Doom Desire hit with the Pokemon that used the move's stats and such, so I'm wondering how it would apply to these moves, if at all. Would it be a fair change to the mechanics, for the sake of playability, that Furure Sight'd moves now work off of the stats/abilities of tbe current active Pokemon? If so, what about when a Pokemon is fainted? Would the move fail?
Smaller Q: Should this metagame's effect also apply to Future Sight and Doom Desire, effectively letting you use the move 4 turns in advance? Lol
Impacts:
Pivot moves: How good are these? They seem quite powerful in my head but the fact that you cant immediately switch with them is a concern for the user.
Protect Moves: Planning ahead is good, and while protecting moves may not work as well with this metagame's original premise, being able to put a stop to potential combo turns where the future sight'd move + another move happens could be potentially useful.
Priority: While you can still use priority in the normal slots, it's not super useful in the future sight slot, aside from if you simply just needed to pull the move off, like a Prankster move.
Jirachimons (intentionally bad name, ideas open lol)
Premise: Every move in the 1st slot on a Pokemon now gains the effect of Future Sight and Doom Desire. There's a few ways to use this. You could potentially psuedo-Baton Pass, by using a setup move like Swords Dance or Shift Gear, then switching into another Pokemon. Attacking moves can also be used so that you could effectively use two powerful attacks in one turn, making it harder for walls to heal off the damage. On the other hand, these walls could also use Recover or delayed Haze or even Teleport, allowing them to manuever around offensive strategies.
Big question: how should this work for moves such as Cosmic Power, Slack Off, Power-Up Punch, and more? To my knowledge, Future Sight and Doom Desire hit with the Pokemon that used the move's stats and such, so I'm wondering how it would apply to these moves, if at all. Would it be a fair change to the mechanics, for the sake of playability, that Furure Sight'd moves now work off of the stats/abilities of tbe current active Pokemon? If so, what about when a Pokemon is fainted? Would the move fail?
Smaller Q: Should this metagame's effect also apply to Future Sight and Doom Desire, effectively letting you use the move 4 turns in advance? Lol
Impacts:
Pivot moves: How good are these? They seem quite powerful in my head but the fact that you cant immediately switch with them is a concern for the user.
Protect Moves: Planning ahead is good, and while protecting moves may not work as well with this metagame's original premise, being able to put a stop to potential combo turns where the future sight'd move + another move happens could be potentially useful.
Priority: While you can still use priority in the normal slots, it's not super useful in the future sight slot, aside from if you simply just needed to pull the move off, like a Prankster move.
“All moves work like FSight/DDesire” is on the rejected list, although this one isn’t all moves but some moves so idk if that’s different enough
I’d have effects apply to the mon that switches in but use the original mon’s stats/abilities, and Power-Up Punch/Charge Beam/Meteor Mash/whatever else would attack using the original mon’s stats and then boost the new mon.
I’d have effects apply to the mon that switches in but use the original mon’s stats/abilities, and Power-Up Punch/Charge Beam/Meteor Mash/whatever else would attack using the original mon’s stats and then boost the new mon.
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The original mon's ability doesn't affect future sight if it's not on the field when it hits.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1617968902
I like the idea of what order the duel typings of a Pokemon mattering, but I would just start with just affecting resistances.
The Defensive utility of a Pokemon’s typing is the most important part of a Pokemon’s type. If you are going to change how typings work, you should start with just changing type effectiveness. The meta will drastically change when a Pokemon that normally is neutral to a type suddenly is resistant to those moves. Like imagine having to deal with Volcanion that now resists Grass moves, or Fighting Garchomp that resists Water.
Also I would not change any abilities. The way Adaptability is programmed, the game sets the STAB to 2 instead of multiplying 1.5 by 1.3333~. So to be true to form, have Adaptability still give a x2 bonus even if you want to include the STAB changes. Levitate is programmed similarly, where it sets the user as Airborn and other abilities like Water Aborb are programmed similarly. Unless the Metagame is about directly changing abilities, it would be rejected with it being more petmod material.
An alternative idea would be having either the Primary typing or Secondary typing of a Pokemon apply to their moves. So if say Buzzwole used DWB, the move would have the Bug (if it were Primary typing focused) or Fighting (if it were Secondary typing focused) type factored into DWB. It would be like applying Flying Press to moves different moves.
While not necessarily benefiting defensive Pokemon, it would inherently benefit offensive attackers with enough coverage to abuse newly formed x4 and even x8 weaknesses in many of the Pokemon which previously didn't had itA lot of the differences between primary and secondary types feel really arbitrary and hard to explain concisely, and the thing with immunities is just stupid. I think a better ruleset would just be "every multiplier related to the primary type is applied twice".
Volcarona has Bug as its primary type, so its Bug STAB is boosted by 1.5 * 1.5 = 2.25
Defensively, all its weaknesses and resistances associated with its Bug typing are doubled. It takes 1/4 damage from Fighting attacks, it takes 1/8 damage from Grass attacks (since Fire also resists Grass), and it takes 1/2 damage from Ground attacks (since Fire is weak to Ground). It also takes 4 times damage from Flying attacks, 2 times damage from Fire attacks, and 8 times damage from Rock attacks (which also means it instantly dies from Stealth Rock). And while Volcarona doesn't have an immunity ability, if it did, it would still take no damage from those attacks no matter its typing, because that's what happens when you multiply by 0.
I don't know if this would necessarily be a good OM, it would definitely be a lot easier to explain and conceptualize, which is a huge benefit.
On top of that, it doesn't benefit mono-typed Pokemon as much as dual-typed ones for the simple reason that Dual Typed pokemon not only have x2.25 Boost to their primary type, but also keeps x1.5 Boost for their secondary type.
I'm suggesting that the new rule for that OM - that is "every multiplier related to the primary type is applied twice" - should only apply to mono-typed Pokemon, with logic being that they would be more "Pure" in essence.
Dual typed Pokemon already have offensive advantage because from offensive stand-point there is no disadvantage in having two types.
There may be downsides on having bad defensive typing, but so there might be good defensive typings too which only fortifies the benefits from having double typing.
Mono-typed Pokemon do not have such luxury. By applying this new rule we wouldn't however bring them that use because we are stacking the same resistances and weaknesses with themselves - having all of them be x1/4 or x4 with exception to some immunities. What we do however introduce is sort of "specialization" for their types.
Any Pokemon may use say electric attack and some partially electric ones will have with them greater success, but the truly, purely electric types would gain quite a boost.
If we make that metagame affect only Mono-typed Pokemon, it will buff a lot of Pokemon with good singular types which are great defensively (that is - with low amount of weaknesses compared to amount of resistances) - Fairy, Poison, Steel, Fire, Water, Electric... last one which may use Balloon to avoid Ground type moves
Interestingly enough the only mono-type which get's biggest defensive debuff is Normal type as it gains nothing defensively (already immune to Ghost) and it's normally x2 weakness to Fighting becomes x4 weakness. Poor Blissey and Chansey I guess... but also Snorlax and other bulky normal types.
That sounds super boring.
Instead of exploring how two types interact when one of them is more prominent than the other, and creating a ton of new type combinations since the order of the types now has mechanical importance, with single-type Pokemon it's just... the same type but more extreme. There's nothing new there. Restricting it to single-type Pokemon also means that only about half the Pokemon in the game are even affected by the OM.
OM: Mixed Strategy Wars
Metagame Premise: Players numerically apply the concepts of mixed strategies and risk vs reward.
Players play normally until a turn where one player does more damage, or one player makes a move and the other switches or does nothing (due to taunt or other things). Starting with the player with the "advantage" last turn, this turn he must allocate a percentage chance to each possible move and switch he has, and this is revealed to the opponent. The move names are not revealed if they have not be used yet. The move chosen is completely based on these percentage chances, and they must total 100. Then the opponent chooses their move. We alternate who shows their hand every turn. So if it's Player A's turn to show first, and it's his specs Lele against Slowking-Galar, and only Psyshock has been revealed, he might do:
Psyshock: 60%
Move 2: 20%
Move 3: 10%
(Switch to) Ferrothorn: 10%
Move 2 is actually Moonblast to cover Weavile, move 3 is focus blast, and move 4 is Thunderbolt. It is 0% because it does not cover anything.
This might take longer than usual, so I would advocate this for 3v3 at least. For 6v6, stall might do worse since it makes it harder for them to make predictable plays.
Metagame Premise: Players numerically apply the concepts of mixed strategies and risk vs reward.
Players play normally until a turn where one player does more damage, or one player makes a move and the other switches or does nothing (due to taunt or other things). Starting with the player with the "advantage" last turn, this turn he must allocate a percentage chance to each possible move and switch he has, and this is revealed to the opponent. The move names are not revealed if they have not be used yet. The move chosen is completely based on these percentage chances, and they must total 100. Then the opponent chooses their move. We alternate who shows their hand every turn. So if it's Player A's turn to show first, and it's his specs Lele against Slowking-Galar, and only Psyshock has been revealed, he might do:
Psyshock: 60%
Move 2: 20%
Move 3: 10%
(Switch to) Ferrothorn: 10%
Move 2 is actually Moonblast to cover Weavile, move 3 is focus blast, and move 4 is Thunderbolt. It is 0% because it does not cover anything.
This might take longer than usual, so I would advocate this for 3v3 at least. For 6v6, stall might do worse since it makes it harder for them to make predictable plays.
This meta sounds like it'd be impossible to actually implement into Showdown, like coding-wise. It also sounds like a huge slog to play, and I worry it would end up being optimal to not bother with the probability gimmick and just set all your moves to 25% (or 33% or 50% if one or two of your moves are definitely not the play) to make yourself less predictable, at which point this is just the Battle Palace.
Have UI show each possible play, and have each chance default to 0. Then you assign a chance to each move to total 100%, then submit. An optimal player would not assign the same chance to each move. For example, if it's specs Lele against Slowking-Galar, and you 50-50 psyshock or moonblast to cover Weavile, and their Slowking is more expendable than Weavile, they are 100% staying in and Sludge Bombing. You have to do something like 70-30 psyshock moonblast.
ehh… if you do that, it’s even more obvious to swap into Weav. Random choices still seem optimal
If it's 50-50 psyshock moonblast Sludge Bombing is 100% better than switch to Weavile if they value Slowking less than Weavile. I don't know what you mean by "more obvious to swap into Weav" when its 70-30, as obviously when it's 50-50, staying in is better.
100-0 psyshock they are 100% not staying in.
The optimal strategy would be something in between, like 70-30 or 80-20. It depends on the game.
I understand what the UI would be, it's just that custom UI like that is most likely way outside the realm of feasibility. The move selection screen would have to be completely rewritten to include text input boxes for every option (plus checks to make sure they're all numbers and actually add up to 100) plus a way to store these choices and then randomly select one. Showdown, from what I understand, just isn't built to accommodate that. It's not a very flexible engine, at least as far as UI goes.
You can ask someone who actually has experience coding for Showdown for a more informed answer, but based on what I've heard from them, they'll probably say the same.
This means set every "useless" move to 0% and every other move to the same percent? This assumes that every useful move is equally useful. You can't have useless moves, the most useful move, and not have things in between, because usefulness varies in degree. So give the most useful move the highest percentage, and other moves have lower.
Completely rewritten is an exaggeration, keep the move icons, but you would add text boxes for every option.
"(plus checks to make sure they're all numbers and actually add up to 100) plus a way to store these choices and then randomly select one."
As a programmer I know these are not hard. The choices are entered when you hit submit. Generate a random int between 1 and 100 to select the move.
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Writing this up so I don't forget about it in gen9.
Name: Borrowed Nature
Metagame Premise: LC, but stats affected by a mon's nature are overwritten by their fully evolved forme's.
Potential bans and threats:
Anyone who knows LC and knows OMs has my explicit permission to resubmit this in gen9 once OM submissions are open again. I don't have enough expertise in any area, but this seems like potentially interesting.
Name: Borrowed Nature
Metagame Premise: LC, but stats affected by a mon's nature are overwritten by their fully evolved forme's.
Potential bans and threats:
- Arena Trap mons (Diglett, Trapinch)
- Honest a load, this is a large offensive boost and I'd have to see how it works in practice
- Its also something that would be submitted in gen9, so I don't know what mons are there.
- The boost provided by this mechanic is largely offensive, and LC is already an offensive meta. Does this push too many mons into unbalanced territory, or can the few mons that gain substantial defensive boosts (marianie has literally the same stats as pex) help it stay balanced.
- Given the substantial mechanical changes, and substantially raised power level, are any of the existing LC Uber mons unbannable.
- I cannot run this as I don't know LC.
- Staying at level 5 helps differentiate this from a traditional OM, but does raise the barrier of entry for non-LC players. Should it stay at level 5, or perhaps be played at level 100?
- Should anything else be taken from the evo?
Anyone who knows LC and knows OMs has my explicit permission to resubmit this in gen9 once OM submissions are open again. I don't have enough expertise in any area, but this seems like potentially interesting.
Hello, that looks like a cool idea. However how does a mon like Eevee or Tyrogue would work, who have multiple full evolutions to choose from?
Discussed it in the OM room, and while its very awkward, I think you'd have to implement a clause where any multi-evo mons must be nicknamed to match the desired full-evo. I cannot think of a better solution here, and while it reduces the simplicity of the format, c'est la vie.
The most direct solution would just be to ban them on technicality.
Or ban non-neutral natures on them
Or use the highest/lowest stat of all evolutions
Top Ten
For this. heavy reliance on the usage stats found here would be assumed; that might disqualify it right away, but I'm not sure where the staff stands on this, so I'll go ahead and post this, anyway. In this meta, nickname your Pokémon another Pokémon's name to gain that Pokémon's most used Ability as an "inherent" (intrinsic) Ability (if this is too much, it can just be replaced). Your Pokémon would also gain the ability to use that Pokémon's top ten most used moves in the most recent 1500 Glicko. Last, nickname comma (the symbol) followed by the shorthand stat name you want to inherit (for instance, ", Spe" for Speed).Tyranitar, SpD (Rhydon) @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Megahorn
In this example, Rhydon would pick up Sand Stream, Dragon Dance (10th most used move in July [Gen 8] OU 1500 Glicko), and 100 SpD from Tyranitar.
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Megahorn
In this example, Rhydon would pick up Sand Stream, Dragon Dance (10th most used move in July [Gen 8] OU 1500 Glicko), and 100 SpD from Tyranitar.
I changed the mixed strategy OM idea to involve only switches so it's less cumbersome.
OM: Switch Minimax
Metagame Premise: Players numerically apply the concepts of mixed strategies and risk vs reward.
Players play normally until a turn where one player does more damage, or one player makes a move and the other switches or does nothing (due to taunt or other things). Starting with the player with the "advantage" last turn, this turn he must allocate a percentage chance to each switch he could make, and this is revealed to the opponent. Then the opponent chooses their move. We use a random number from 1 to 100 to determine the first player;s move. We alternate who shows their hand every turn. So if it's Player A's turn to show first, and it's his Slowking-Galar against a specs Lele, he might do:
Stay In: 30%
Switch to Ferrothorn: 40%
Switch to Mandibuzz: 30%
OM: Switch Minimax
Metagame Premise: Players numerically apply the concepts of mixed strategies and risk vs reward.
Players play normally until a turn where one player does more damage, or one player makes a move and the other switches or does nothing (due to taunt or other things). Starting with the player with the "advantage" last turn, this turn he must allocate a percentage chance to each switch he could make, and this is revealed to the opponent. Then the opponent chooses their move. We use a random number from 1 to 100 to determine the first player;s move. We alternate who shows their hand every turn. So if it's Player A's turn to show first, and it's his Slowking-Galar against a specs Lele, he might do:
Stay In: 30%
Switch to Ferrothorn: 40%
Switch to Mandibuzz: 30%
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